Solo PvE so easy it's terribly boring - Will One Tamriel make this even worse? ("Hard Mode"?)

Xodarap777

(TL;DR: Can we please have a difficulty level setting or slider???)

Let me say, first, that I don't like "difficult" games. They stress me out, and I play games to UNwind.

I've rarely had to complain in this direction: that the game is just too easy. As it stands, ESO is currently a massive "walking simulator." I love theorycrafting and equipment crafting and skill building, but why am I doing it? Any combination of skills and abilities, at any level, just wrecks everything around me. I don't have to even watch the game; I know I won't DIE. So why bother upgrading my armor? Or changing to a different skillset? If there's no required strategy in battle, then even the "different flavor" argument doesn't work for swapping abilities: it's literally just different animations.

The storylines are cute and all, but they clearly aren't enough to make a game on their own. You couldn't have released ESO as a standalone "AAA" single-player game based just on the scripted themepark quests. There has to be SOME flair.

Again, I'm not some power-gamer looking to flex my ego. I even hate PvP for those kinds of reasons. And I don't want to go wandering from group dungeon to group dungeon (or anchor, maybe? they've been easy, too) just to find enjoyment in the basic play.

What I've had to do is stay in areas that are ~10 levels higher than my character, which has made the challenge decent enough (though with any resource management, still not that rough, just less predictable). I'm excited for One Tamriel to open up the different areas for a single character, and it's almost enticing me to come back -- except that I won't be able to intentionally under-level an area! I'm worried that the difficulty will become even more yawn-inducing.

Wouldn't it be pretty easy -- with the battle-leveling mechanics, especially -- to introduce a difficulty slider? A "veteran" mode, maybe? I can't be the only one who would love challenging myself to find the highest level I can compete (against the Environment) at. It's the kind of thing that could open up the doors to new achievements, trophies, and even competitive solo PvE (ladders based on difficulty - or something like that?). Solo instances of dungeons with clear times at max difficulty, as scoreboards.

LOTRO had a phenomenal solo mechanic in skirmishes. You could set the difficulty, level, and number of players (pitting you solo if you wanted, against a +3 difficulty overleveled 3-man custom dungeon), and the rewards and loot scaled accordingly. It wouldn't have to go this far, but introducing solo PvE difficulty does open cool new possibilities.

Or just a single, simple switch to flip for "hard mode." That would be easy, right? And make a lot of people very happy!

Banana

There is vMA if ya want something hard

Totalitarian

Banana wrote: »

There is vMA if ya want something hard

Also soloing group dungeons.

greylox

No middle ground, vma is anything but fun and almost everything else too easy bar a few world bosses.

altemriel

Xodarap777 wrote: »

(TL;DR: Can we please have a difficulty level setting or slider???)

Let me say, first, that I don't like "difficult" games. They stress me out, and I play games to UNwind.

I've rarely had to complain in this direction: that the game is just too easy. As it stands, ESO is currently a massive "walking simulator." I love theorycrafting and equipment crafting and skill building, but why am I doing it? Any combination of skills and abilities, at any level, just wrecks everything around me. I don't have to even watch the game; I know I won't DIE. So why bother upgrading my armor? Or changing to a different skillset? If there's no required strategy in battle, then even the "different flavor" argument doesn't work for swapping abilities: it's literally just different animations.

The storylines are cute and all, but they clearly aren't enough to make a game on their own. You couldn't have released ESO as a standalone "AAA" single-player game based just on the scripted themepark quests. There has to be SOME flair.

Again, I'm not some power-gamer looking to flex my ego. I even hate PvP for those kinds of reasons. And I don't want to go wandering from group dungeon to group dungeon (or anchor, maybe? they've been easy, too) just to find enjoyment in the basic play.

What I've had to do is stay in areas that are ~10 levels higher than my character, which has made the challenge decent enough (though with any resource management, still not that rough, just less predictable). I'm excited for One Tamriel to open up the different areas for a single character, and it's almost enticing me to come back -- except that I won't be able to intentionally under-level an area! I'm worried that the difficulty will become even more yawn-inducing.

Wouldn't it be pretty easy -- with the battle-leveling mechanics, especially -- to introduce a difficulty slider? A "veteran" mode, maybe? I can't be the only one who would love challenging myself to find the highest level I can compete (against the Environment) at. It's the kind of thing that could open up the doors to new achievements, trophies, and even competitive solo PvE (ladders based on difficulty - or something like that?). Solo instances of dungeons with clear times at max difficulty, as scoreboards.

LOTRO had a phenomenal solo mechanic in skirmishes. You could set the difficulty, level, and number of players (pitting you solo if you wanted, against a +3 difficulty overleveled 3-man custom dungeon), and the rewards and loot scaled accordingly. It wouldn't have to go this far, but introducing solo PvE difficulty does open cool new possibilities.

Or just a single, simple switch to flip for "hard mode." That would be easy, right? And make a lot of people very happy!

well, that is the downside of being min-maxed to the highest possible level !!

go do the end game content: trials, vet dungeons, vMol, vDSA...


or start a new alt


but I agree with you that a difficulty slider for Elite veterans would be nice to solve this!!

Cronopoly

@Xodarap777 , Have you been paying attention? Not trying to sound harsh but they are raising all Zones to CP160, so I dont think they need to overdo it. All those lower level World Bosses you use to laugh at in each lower zone. Goto the PTS and what what occurs if you are not prepared solo lol. You can still kill several of them but they are not pushovers anymore.

I put on half my test gear and walked out of Rawkla and strolled by the one to the North totally forgetting it was a CP160 BOSS. I was eating dirt in about 5 seconds for not paying attention.

I'd say wait to see how Craglorn works out as well.

Didaco

altemriel wrote: »

Xodarap777 wrote: »

(TL;DR: Can we please have a difficulty level setting or slider???)

Let me say, first, that I don't like "difficult" games. They stress me out, and I play games to UNwind.

I've rarely had to complain in this direction: that the game is just too easy. As it stands, ESO is currently a massive "walking simulator." I love theorycrafting and equipment crafting and skill building, but why am I doing it? Any combination of skills and abilities, at any level, just wrecks everything around me. I don't have to even watch the game; I know I won't DIE. So why bother upgrading my armor? Or changing to a different skillset? If there's no required strategy in battle, then even the "different flavor" argument doesn't work for swapping abilities: it's literally just different animations.

The storylines are cute and all, but they clearly aren't enough to make a game on their own. You couldn't have released ESO as a standalone "AAA" single-player game based just on the scripted themepark quests. There has to be SOME flair.

Again, I'm not some power-gamer looking to flex my ego. I even hate PvP for those kinds of reasons. And I don't want to go wandering from group dungeon to group dungeon (or anchor, maybe? they've been easy, too) just to find enjoyment in the basic play.

What I've had to do is stay in areas that are ~10 levels higher than my character, which has made the challenge decent enough (though with any resource management, still not that rough, just less predictable). I'm excited for One Tamriel to open up the different areas for a single character, and it's almost enticing me to come back -- except that I won't be able to intentionally under-level an area! I'm worried that the difficulty will become even more yawn-inducing.

Wouldn't it be pretty easy -- with the battle-leveling mechanics, especially -- to introduce a difficulty slider? A "veteran" mode, maybe? I can't be the only one who would love challenging myself to find the highest level I can compete (against the Environment) at. It's the kind of thing that could open up the doors to new achievements, trophies, and even competitive solo PvE (ladders based on difficulty - or something like that?). Solo instances of dungeons with clear times at max difficulty, as scoreboards.

LOTRO had a phenomenal solo mechanic in skirmishes. You could set the difficulty, level, and number of players (pitting you solo if you wanted, against a +3 difficulty overleveled 3-man custom dungeon), and the rewards and loot scaled accordingly. It wouldn't have to go this far, but introducing solo PvE difficulty does open cool new possibilities.

Or just a single, simple switch to flip for "hard mode." That would be easy, right? And make a lot of people very happy!

well, that is the downside of being min-maxed to the highest possible level !!

go do the end game content: trials, vet dungeons, vMol, vDSA...


or start a new alt


but I agree with you that a difficulty slider for Elite veterans would be nice to solve this!!

You don't even need to be min maxed...
Yesterday I was doing the GC daily in Garlas Agea I believe, eith my level 11char... I was holding the phone on one hand and playing with the other... The delve boss didn't even manage to scratch my health bar. It spawned a crapton of adds that were literally doing nothing while I was standing still spamming Brawler with my pinky.

Normal pve content could actually use some challenge...

OldGamerESO

I am not sure I agree completely about normal PvE needing to be harder, especially with level scaling. Have you ever noticed what happens when you run a dungeon while you are leveling and your gear is out of date? It magnifies the difference (both good and bad) quite a lot. If you are in blue level appropriate gear then the level scaling actually (to cp160) over-scales you. We all know the disappointment when your battleleveled level 40 in greens is more powerful than you level 50 in 160p purple gear. But if your gear is behind your level (like a level 40 in level 32 gear) then you are proportionally much weaker when scaled up to 50/160 cp.

I think what really makes ESO open world PvE "easy" is crafted gear and Champion points. People like to boast about how they can level their characters without any gear at all, but I'll admit they are better than me. I started a new mag sorcerer this weekend with the intention of playing "clean". No crafted gear from my master crafter, no enchants, foods, potions or champion points spread. No horse. No instant 120 slot inventory. Only dropped gear and quest given equipment. Yep the first level 3 spider killed me in 2 hits. I can't fight 2 things at once and win. I could only cast 2 spells and was out of Magicka. I refused to use a greatsword or bow that was in my starter inventory (I am a magic user!) So I had to punch monsters after I cast my 2 spells. I had no money. I have been dying or at least running away a lot. Oh, and there is not s staff to be found after 4 hours. I finally equipped a dagger that dropped out of desperation. I still have 3 blank item slots and had to put iron shoes and gauntlets on since I haven't found light armor gear yet. I also picked a different faction so I was more unfamiliar with the quests (other than running Caldwells)

It is an entirely different game from this perspective (the new player perspective).

So THAT is your difficulty slider. Don't spend your CP points. Don't level using crafted 5-piece set (with training traits) with enchants. Don't use blue auto-leveled Orsinium food. There are many ways you can make the game as hard as you want.

anitajoneb17_ESO

I don't think an individual difficulty slider would be possible.

But I agree most of the stuff is too easy and gets boring. That's not going to change with One Tamriel - but it doesn't get worse either.

What I'd like to see is LESS MOBS ! MOBs are currently so boring to kill, there's a group of them every 2 meters, and as soon as you've cleared them all, BAM ! First group has already respawned, back to square one.

Solution : less, but harder trash mobs. Longer respawn timers (except maybe in some designated places, for grinders).

greylox

The difficulty when the game first came out was absolutely fine, vet zones weren't a walk in the park etc.

AverageJo3Gam3r

You realize it's an MMO, no? You want solo challenge, do vMA or solo PvP.

Xodarap777

OldGamerESO wrote: »

I am not sure I agree completely about normal PvE needing to be harder, especially with level scaling. Have you ever noticed what happens when you run a dungeon while you are leveling and your gear is out of date? It magnifies the difference (both good and bad) quite a lot. If you are in blue level appropriate gear then the level scaling actually (to cp160) over-scales you. We all know the disappointment when your battleleveled level 40 in greens is more powerful than you level 50 in 160p purple gear. But if your gear is behind your level (like a level 40 in level 32 gear) then you are proportionally much weaker when scaled up to 50/160 cp.

I think what really makes ESO open world PvE "easy" is crafted gear and Champion points. People like to boast about how they can level their characters without any gear at all, but I'll admit they are better than me. I started a new mag sorcerer this weekend with the intention of playing "clean". No crafted gear from my master crafter, no enchants, foods, potions or champion points spread. No horse. No instant 120 slot inventory. Only dropped gear and quest given equipment. Yep the first level 3 spider killed me in 2 hits. I can't fight 2 things at once and win. I could only cast 2 spells and was out of Magicka. I refused to use a greatsword or bow that was in my starter inventory (I am a magic user!) So I had to punch monsters after I cast my 2 spells. I had no money. I have been dying or at least running away a lot. Oh, and there is not s staff to be found after 4 hours. I finally equipped a dagger that dropped out of desperation. I still have 3 blank item slots and had to put iron shoes and gauntlets on since I haven't found light armor gear yet. I also picked a different faction so I was more unfamiliar with the quests (other than running Caldwells)

It is an entirely different game from this perspective (the new player perspective).

So THAT is your difficulty slider. Don't spend your CP points. Don't level using crafted 5-piece set (with training traits) with enchants. Don't use blue auto-leveled Orsinium food. There are many ways you can make the game as hard as you want.

I already play this way.

I almost feel like I'm doing something "wrong." I'm level 40. I can waltz through a level-45 zone and - I'm really not kidding - just lay down everything in my path without paying any attention, swapping bars, anything. I can straight staff-attack (sorc destro) anything to death, or spam a single ability, or just let a couple of summons handle the mobs while I eat a sammich. I really am NOT any sort of elite gamer, and I've tried different (less powerful?) skill combos. I craft my equipment, but I craft on-level with the same character, and I don't level crafting other than what's necessary to get blue heavy gear (with a light cap, battlemage-style). Same for food. No Champion Points. I feel like I'm playing with a cheat/trainer program.

I don't want to "force" hard mode with my own workarounds. I like to min-max, a bit at least. I'll probably just re-make a set of level 11 armor, though, and let that under-scale me when One Tamriel comes out; that's a good idea.

SantaOrc

vMSA doesn't help anyone who wants to quest through the story and finds the lack of challanges disturbing.
"solo pvp" doesn't help either, besides beeing hard to find (just dying from a zerg ist not funny either).

When i leveled up my frist char i already had the very same problem like Xodarap, and this was right after release. Crystal Shard -> medium Attack -> finisher, next target. oh wow, i burst in joy.

The questlines beeing way to easy is a very old topic and has been "discussed" way too many times.

And yes, i hope they will use the all-zone-scaling to implement a kind of difficulty slider.

Xodarap777

SantaOrc wrote: »

vMSA doesn't help anyone who wants to quest through the story and finds the lack of challanges disturbing.
"solo pvp" doesn't help either, besides beeing hard to find (just dying from a zerg ist not funny either).

When i leveled up my frist char i already had the very same problem like Xodarap, and this was right after release. Crystal Shard -> medium Attack -> finisher, next target. oh wow, i burst in joy.

The questlines beeing way to easy is a very old topic and has been "discussed" way too many times.

And yes, i hope they will use the all-zone-scaling to implement a kind of difficulty slider.

Yes, this exactly. Especially the "press one, press two, press mouse, press tab, repeat forever" part.

My point was just that it would be easy to have a "hard mode" toggle or a difficulty slider, either of which would change the way you scale relative to zone content. Heck, if I could just choose to underlevel content by the equivalent of five (to ten) levels, that would make me happy, since that's what I already do (though it's still pretty boring).

Waffennacht

Well, when I use my sorc for PvE he just walks through content too. But that's because of kiting and massive AoEs.

In PvP this build will only kill the weakest of opponents.

My stam PvP can't beat dungeons solo.

If your build is set up for it, PvE can be super easy.

You may wanna try a different class if you want harder PvE right now.

Or wait for T1

Roechacca

The Devs need to write better quests. Almost everything is a go fetch quest. Putting everyone together isn't going make go fetch quests anymore interesting.

Minno

World bosses, dolmens, delve bosses should be scaled for a group of 12 to take out with varying degrees of mechanics or difficulty involved.

1) world bosses- easiest of the 3. Follow orsinium example.
2) dolmens- second hardest. Difficulty governed by RNG drop. Meaning if bosses drop, you better bring friends.
3) delve bosses- mini trial bosses. Should require 12 people tbh. You are taking down the ESO equivalent of Al Capone; each with a unique fight perspective (use questline/ delve lore to give hints on how to beat boss)

Cronopoly

If you are impatient now go to Craglorn. Scale your party down accordingly to get whatever challenge you need.

serenity_painted

I don't really understand what enjoyment people are getting from a game that's so easy it let's you win. I mean the solo PvE shouldn't be hard but isn't there a middle ground between absolutely steam rolling all content, never even getting close to dying and vMA?

I'm leveling a Templar now the only i do is press 2 to shoot my fuzzy balls and then press 4 to charge, this is enough to kill most everything that isn't a boss. I thought this was normal in the starter zone but she is lvl28 now and it hasn't changed a bit. I switched all my gear to whites i found but the only thing that changed is i have to use Biting jabs as well now. It gets really dull and really repetitive after awhile,

The same thing happened in GW2 and i don't get it. I understand the need for leveling PVE to be accessible, and it shouldn't be hard, but where is the fun in 2 shotting everything and being unable to lose unless you go afk?

Asmael

I think current dolmens need a MAJOR buff, to the point it's almost impossible to solo. Not that it is hard to find people to do dolmens, since it's literally impossible to miss one, and has a tendency to draw 10 people the minute it pops.

Xvorg

serenity_painted wrote: »

I don't really understand what enjoyment people are getting from a game that's so easy it let's you win. I mean the solo PvE shouldn't be hard but isn't there a middle ground between absolutely steam rolling all content, never even getting close to dying and vMA?

I'm leveling a Templar now the only i do is press 2 to shoot my fuzzy balls and then press 4 to charge, this is enough to kill most everything that isn't a boss. I thought this was normal in the starter zone but she is lvl28 now and it hasn't changed a bit. I switched all my gear to whites i found but the only thing that changed is i have to use Biting jabs as well now. It gets really dull and really repetitive after awhile,

The same thing happened in GW2 and i don't get it. I understand the need for leveling PVE to be accessible, and it shouldn't be hard, but where is the fun in 2 shotting everything and being unable to lose unless you go afk?

Get Orsinum and do daily pledges... alone....

NewBlacksmurf

Difficulty slider = don't use CP

Next could be lesser quality gear.

It's still easier than it was back in closed beta around October 2013 but it seems ZOS wanted a much easier game experience

serenity_painted

Xvorg wrote: »

serenity_painted wrote: »

I don't really understand what enjoyment people are getting from a game that's so easy it let's you win. I mean the solo PvE shouldn't be hard but isn't there a middle ground between absolutely steam rolling all content, never even getting close to dying and vMA?

I'm leveling a Templar now the only i do is press 2 to shoot my fuzzy balls and then press 4 to charge, this is enough to kill most everything that isn't a boss. I thought this was normal in the starter zone but she is lvl28 now and it hasn't changed a bit. I switched all my gear to whites i found but the only thing that changed is i have to use Biting jabs as well now. It gets really dull and really repetitive after awhile,

The same thing happened in GW2 and i don't get it. I understand the need for leveling PVE to be accessible, and it shouldn't be hard, but where is the fun in 2 shotting everything and being unable to lose unless you go afk?

Get Orsinum and do daily pledges... alone....

Why? What has that got to do with anything i said? Why should i go do something very hard just because overworld PvE is so easy it let's you win?

The fact that solo PvE isn't hard or challangeing isn't the problem, it shouldn't be. It's that it's so beyond easy it's almost impossible to fail unless you leave your keyboard. Like i said, there's a middle ground between vMA and 2 shotting everything while mobs can't do anything but tickle you.

Rykmaar

Do people really believe that the pve is only too easy because of "min-maxers?" That logic sounds like players who find an efficient playstyle are penalized for doing so. What, is everyone else running around the world with broken builds, even attributes and 1.5k weapon damage?

Now, with that all being said, lets remember something about 1T. 1T overworld was not designed with current max level players, truth be told. It was designed with new players in mind. So any high level player with any semblance of a build is going to blow through the stuff. That's not a min-max issue, its a design decision.

The problem with all of this is that this game still lacks progression based PvP and PvE, so there's little to really do in that vein after farming an overworld zone for gear sets you want.

Two weeks after 1T comes out, everyone is going to have the sets they want and be all golded out. Then they'll realize there's not much to work towards after that besides achievements and making money.

Xvorg

serenity_painted wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

serenity_painted wrote: »

I don't really understand what enjoyment people are getting from a game that's so easy it let's you win. I mean the solo PvE shouldn't be hard but isn't there a middle ground between absolutely steam rolling all content, never even getting close to dying and vMA?

I'm leveling a Templar now the only i do is press 2 to shoot my fuzzy balls and then press 4 to charge, this is enough to kill most everything that isn't a boss. I thought this was normal in the starter zone but she is lvl28 now and it hasn't changed a bit. I switched all my gear to whites i found but the only thing that changed is i have to use Biting jabs as well now. It gets really dull and really repetitive after awhile,

The same thing happened in GW2 and i don't get it. I understand the need for leveling PVE to be accessible, and it shouldn't be hard, but where is the fun in 2 shotting everything and being unable to lose unless you go afk?

Get Orsinum and do daily pledges... alone....

Why? What has that got to do with anything i said? Why should i go do something very hard just because overworld PvE is so easy it let's you win?

The fact that solo PvE isn't hard or challangeing isn't the problem, it shouldn't be. It's that it's so beyond easy it's almost impossible to fail unless you leave your keyboard. Like i said, there's a middle ground between vMA and 2 shotting everything while mobs can't do anything but tickle you.

Solo PvE is for grinding with some "fun", farming materials and getting gold to buy sets. If you want a challenge, try something designed for group playing.

Or try a different game that suits what you are looking for.

This game is mainly for competitive PVE (Trials) or PvP, and that's OK, since it is the only way to appeal to new players without discouraging to play it after level 10. You know that some months ago there were a lot of complaints about how difficult and unfriendly was the game for new players? And you want to make it harder?

And with 1T that difficult level, though it will be increased, should remain friendly to any player, no matter its level 10 or CP160

serenity_painted

Xvorg wrote: »

serenity_painted wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

serenity_painted wrote: »

I don't really understand what enjoyment people are getting from a game that's so easy it let's you win. I mean the solo PvE shouldn't be hard but isn't there a middle ground between absolutely steam rolling all content, never even getting close to dying and vMA?

I'm leveling a Templar now the only i do is press 2 to shoot my fuzzy balls and then press 4 to charge, this is enough to kill most everything that isn't a boss. I thought this was normal in the starter zone but she is lvl28 now and it hasn't changed a bit. I switched all my gear to whites i found but the only thing that changed is i have to use Biting jabs as well now. It gets really dull and really repetitive after awhile,

The same thing happened in GW2 and i don't get it. I understand the need for leveling PVE to be accessible, and it shouldn't be hard, but where is the fun in 2 shotting everything and being unable to lose unless you go afk?

Get Orsinum and do daily pledges... alone....

Why? What has that got to do with anything i said? Why should i go do something very hard just because overworld PvE is so easy it let's you win?

The fact that solo PvE isn't hard or challangeing isn't the problem, it shouldn't be. It's that it's so beyond easy it's almost impossible to fail unless you leave your keyboard. Like i said, there's a middle ground between vMA and 2 shotting everything while mobs can't do anything but tickle you.

Solo PvE is for grinding with some "fun", farming materials and getting gold to buy sets. If you want a challenge, try something designed for group playing.

That's what it is to you, if that was all it was intended to be they wouldn't have bothered with any quests besides kill 10 bears and collect 10 bear asses. What you described is a korean grinders solo PvE.

And i'm not really sure how i could make it any clearer that it's not a challange i'm looking for. What bothers me is the complete abscence of any resistance... at all.

Bandit1215

Banana wrote: »

There is vMA if ya want something hard

vMA isn't hard, it's the embodiment of death.

olsborg

I agree, I wish the overland and delves of each of the zones was made quite abit harder then they are currently on pts, cause its easy to the point where it becomes boring, no risk, no fun, just like playing a game with godmode and 10x damage cheats on.

notimetocare

Wear white lowlvl gear. Thats the same basic way TES has always done difficulty slider. Just less dmg

acw37162

World bosses on test ate a legit pain the ass to solo currently.

They have a ton of health, hit very hard, and I have found a few that have some interesting CC and add wave mechanics.

I died quite a few times soloing world bosses this morning.

There are really hard challenging things to do In this game. There are exceptionally difficult achievements and gear sets to grind out. There are things that require a huge amount time and patience and things that require a metric *** ton of luck and prayers to RNJEsus.

If you can't find those things in this game your simple not looking.

If you want a open world challenge go solo ZooLander the reborn in Wrothgar or solo the giant Echetere or the effin Ice Troll and his snowball throwing hoarde of miscrients.

I've soloed all of them and I can tell you that you are going to eat up solo gems, repair kits, and not just be pushing button 1 and button 4 while yawning.

Rohamad_Ali

I love solo PvE here .