Ultimate Generation Tank Build discussion

MrTarkanian48

I have a DK Imperial tank and am investigating options for a high Ultimate generation tank.

It seems as though the meta for tanking is to craft 5 pc. Tava’s on the body. (5-1-1 if desired), run 2 pc. Bloodspawn, and then combining it with one of the following: Ebon, Alkosh, Akaviri Dragonguard, or Werewolf Hide.

I am mainly focused on Ulti gen so I am intentionally taking Ebon and Alkosh out of the equation.

I have a few things about Tava’s/shuffle that I am not excited about:
1) Shuffle takes up a skill slot that would not be needed w/o tava’s
2) Reapplying shuffle is taxing on stamina (Though if using warhorn frequently this may be offset due to battle roar.)
3) It seems that dodging attacks, while increasing Tava proc’s, would reduce Bloodspawn proc’s with an already low 6% proc rate.
4) The 3 pc stamina regen bonus is more or less wasted in situations that blocking is necessary.

Are Tava’s Ult gen effects far above that of Akaviri Dragonguard and Werewolf Hide making it a must have on this type of tank build?

I was considering going 6 Heavy -1 Medium with 2pc. Bloodspawn, 5pc Dragon, 5 pc. Werewolf Hide. I find that all the set bonuses on these two 5 pc. sets to be valuable to a tank, and would not have to run shuffle.

Do you think a Tava’s build would be head and shoulders above this setup in terms of Aggressive Warhorn production?

Glory

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Are Tava’s Ult gen effects far above that of Akaviri Dragonguard and Werewolf Hide making it a must have on this type of tank build?

Do you think a Tava’s build would be head and shoulders above this setup in terms of Aggressive Warhorn production?

Yes. 3 ultimate per second for 3 seconds > 5 ultimate every 5 seconds.

Liofa

Hey ! I have a build called ''Horny Tank'' . This build completed vMoL several times . I have Tava's , Blood Spawn and Dragon . Let me explain why . Tava's is a must if you want to create a ultigen build . There are no other set that gives more Ulti than Tava's . Blood Spawn is the only monster set that gives you Ultimate so why not ? There are only 2 sets to compare now . Dragon and Werewolf . Dragon reduces the cost of Warhorn by 37 . Werewolf will give you 1 Ultimate per second . Well , it doesn't give exactly 1 per second but let's say it is 1 per second . If you use Werewolf , you must gain 37 Ultimate to overperform Dragon which means 8 procs . 8 procs means 40 seconds . Hope I could make you understand my point . My English sucks a bit .

Here is Horny Tank while fighting Rakkhat :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUSVHx3sP0

Btw , I have 26k Health ( with Ebon buff ) and 27-25k resists with buffs .

MrTarkanian48

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Are Tava’s Ult gen effects far above that of Akaviri Dragonguard and Werewolf Hide making it a must have on this type of tank build?

Do you think a Tava’s build would be head and shoulders above this setup in terms of Aggressive Warhorn production?

Yes. 3 ultimate per second for 3 seconds > 5 ultimate every 5 seconds.

This is obviously true, and if RNG is in your favor it has the most Ulti gen potential without a doubt.

However, there is a 20% RNG element involved with Tava's, and a 3 second cooldown. If you don't get a proc within the 7-8 seconds of the first buff expiring, WW may be a more sure thing? Coupled with the guaranteed Ult cost reduction of Dragonguard.

susmitds

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Are Tava’s Ult gen effects far above that of Akaviri Dragonguard and Werewolf Hide making it a must have on this type of tank build?

Do you think a Tava’s build would be head and shoulders above this setup in terms of Aggressive Warhorn production?

Yes. 3 ultimate per second for 3 seconds > 5 ultimate every 5 seconds.

This is obviously true, and if RNG is in your favor it has the most Ulti gen potential without a doubt.

However, there is a 20% RNG element involved with Tava's, and a 3 second cooldown. If you don't get a proc within the 7-8 seconds of the first buff expiring, WW may be a more sure thing? Coupled with the guaranteed Ult cost reduction of Dragonguard.

You can manually dodge in that case. Obviously, taxing on stamina but works definitely.

Autolycus

For many DK tanks, it is preferable to use Hist Bark to eliminate the need for Shuffle on-bar. It depends upon who you ask, but personally I suggest having Major Evasion in your build in one form or another.

That being said, many tanks (myself included) consider Tava's to be a BiS tanking set in today's ESO, at least as it pertains to competitive trials. The key issue here is being able to run Tava's and Hist Bark, which are both crafted, and therefore mutually exclusive. The result is a strong consideration for Akaviri Dragonguard, which comes in jewelry and can be used simultaneously with Tava's and Blood Spawn. There is a variety of alternate setups, but this particular combination is arguably the most efficient means of War Horn generation.

Many DK tanks also would suggest that Major Evasion is unnecessary for many encounters, sometimes entire trials or dungeons. When it comes to dungeons, I honestly don't think it matters. But for some trials (such as The Warrior on hardmode) giving up Major Evasion could prove to be quite detrimental to the overall survivability of the build (also sustainability, getting hit more often means more stamina consumption). There is a trade-off to consider here, of course. and ultimately is up to you. Shuffle itself can take its toll on your stamina pool, but so can getting hit more often (and this gets more complicated, such as your cost of blocking, etc). There are other factors too, such as whether or not that spot being occupied by Shuffle is better occupied by another skill, in which case one may then consider Hist Bark.

Lefthy

I dont get why most people run Bloodspawn...

Using Tavas + shuffle + Dragonguard assure you to cast warhorn with almost no downtime, why would you waste the last 2 pieces on such a low rate proc.

I think the best option for this setup is Chudan or Lord Warden to get the resistances you lack (neither tava or DG gives you bonus armor) and dont use CP points to get the cap (and use on hardy/ele to get less damage income).

This option allows you to get sturdy-infuse pieces of tava and get more HP or more block uptime (here i think the best would be infuse since dropping warhorn almost every 40 secs would fill your stamina up to keep blocking).

I get you can run trial with 26k armor (like horny tank build from Liofa) and live but i just fell a waste of space when you can use somethig more usefull.

MrTarkanian48

Lefthy wrote: »

I dont get why most people run Bloodspawn...

Using Tavas + shuffle + Dragonguard assure you to cast warhorn with almost no downtime, why would you waste the last 2 pieces on such a low rate proc.

I think the best option for this setup is Chudan or Lord Warden to get the resistances you lack (neither tava or DG gives you bonus armor) and dont use CP points to get the cap (and use on hardy/ele to get less damage income).

This option allows you to get sturdy-infuse pieces of tava and get more HP or more block uptime (here i think the best would be infuse since dropping warhorn almost every 40 secs would fill your stamina up to keep blocking).

I get you can run trial with 26k armor (like horny tank build from Liofa) and live but i just fell a waste of space when you can use somethig more usefull.

I was also considering the same. One perk of running Hardened Armor is the Draconic Power passive of 12% healing received. I have been thinking of running Chudan, and then swapping Hardened Armor for Coagulating blood, for a net 20% Healing received bonus.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Lefthy wrote: »

I dont get why most people run Bloodspawn...

Using Tavas + shuffle + Dragonguard assure you to cast warhorn with almost no downtime, why would you waste the last 2 pieces on such a low rate proc.

I think the best option for this setup is Chudan or Lord Warden to get the resistances you lack (neither tava or DG gives you bonus armor) and dont use CP points to get the cap (and use on hardy/ele to get less damage income).

This option allows you to get sturdy-infuse pieces of tava and get more HP or more block uptime (here i think the best would be infuse since dropping warhorn almost every 40 secs would fill your stamina up to keep blocking).

I get you can run trial with 26k armor (like horny tank build from Liofa) and live but i just fell a waste of space when you can use somethig more usefull.

@Lefthy because it's BiS? Not other 2 piece gives you the ultimate regen of bloodspawn. Armor is irrelevant for an end game tank. With a few sturdy traits you can get very close to armor cap. There's no practical difference between 27k resistances and 33k when you're blocking. And chudan is worthless because you get your major buffs from volatile armor. Why give up a unique bloodspawn bonus for something you can get from a skill on your back bar?

AverageJo3Gam3r

I prefer to pair bloodspawn and tavas with potentates and endurance jewlery, but only because I haven't sprung for ADG jewlery yet.

MrTarkanian48

Liofa wrote: »

Hey ! I have a build called ''Horny Tank'' . This build completed vMoL several times . I have Tava's , Blood Spawn and Dragon . Let me explain why . Tava's is a must if you want to create a ultigen build . There are no other set that gives more Ulti than Tava's . Blood Spawn is the only monster set that gives you Ultimate so why not ? There are only 2 sets to compare now . Dragon and Werewolf . Dragon reduces the cost of Warhorn by 37 . Werewolf will give you 1 Ultimate per second . Well , it doesn't give exactly 1 per second but let's say it is 1 per second . If you use Werewolf , you must gain 37 Ultimate to overperform Dragon which means 8 procs . 8 procs means 40 seconds . Hope I could make you understand my point . My English sucks a bit .

Here is Horny Tank while fighting Rakkhat :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUSVHx3sP0

Btw , I have 26k Health ( with Ebon buff ) and 27-25k resists with buffs .

@Liofa

Thank-you for your response. I keep an eye on your channel and have watched your tank build videos in the past. Always helpful and informative.

I like the idea of going vampire and using Drain. I know you run Dunmer. My DK happens to be an Imperial. Do you think a race change to Dunmer would be necessary? How critical is Dunmer flame resist? Only like 3ish % flame mitigation?

Autolycus

Lefthy wrote: »

I dont get why most people run Bloodspawn...

Using Tavas + shuffle + Dragonguard assure you to cast warhorn with almost no downtime, why would you waste the last 2 pieces on such a low rate proc.

I think the best option for this setup is Chudan or Lord Warden to get the resistances you lack (neither tava or DG gives you bonus armor) and dont use CP points to get the cap (and use on hardy/ele to get less damage income).

This option allows you to get sturdy-infuse pieces of tava and get more HP or more block uptime (here i think the best would be infuse since dropping warhorn almost every 40 secs would fill your stamina up to keep blocking).

I get you can run trial with 26k armor (like horny tank build from Liofa) and live but i just fell a waste of space when you can use somethig more usefull.

With utmost respect for your preference (because I prefer a "to each his/her own" stance), I would play Devil's Advocate with regards to Chudan and Warden. I wrote this wall of text purely for informative purposes, not to attack your preference.

The biggest drawback to Chudan is that it provides a buff that is attainable (and easily/efficiently so) by any tank. In this case, with the tank being a DK, the use of Hardened Armor is often built seamlessly into the rotation already, which makes Chudan only useful for 1set armor/spell resist. In almost every practical application, that 1k armor/spell resist is trivial. Certain encounters (again I point to the Warrior on hardmode) have a higher demand for those resistances, and we can make a case for the 1set bonus in such a scenario. But then again, a well-timed 3k shield against the Warrior from Hardened Armor also has clutch potential, especially when paired with an Igneous Shield. I know most people belittle damage shields, and in most cases they do underperform. However, such occasions that merit damage shields do exist, even in endgame content.

I think the biggest drawback to Warden is that it only offers spell resistance. This can prove useful to the tank (and the group, if using a 2set) for some encounters, but most tanks don't build for situations; they make decisions that will offer a complete build that is capable of doing all content, or if two different setups are necessary, they split it for dungeons vs. trials, not an individual build for SO, and for MoL, etc.

Using 1pc Chudan and 1pc Warden would probably be the best accommodation for someone who finds Blood Spawn to be less-than-optimal. It doesn't offer any group benefit, but it does help to boost the individual resistances of the tank. So, if that's the issue to be addressed, then here we have a viable solution. However, the underlying point of an Ultimate-Regen Tank is to maximize group benefit, and a little extra spell resist is, in most cases, negligible relative to the ultimate regen potential of Blood Spawn. Consider that 15 ultimate for a DK is 6-7% of the cost of an Aggressive Warhorn (depending on gear selection). It's not realistic to expect this to proc every 6s forever and always, but personal experience and testing suggests that it's active more often than not. For other tanks, like Sorcs, Blood Spawn provides for an even higher benefit; natural 15% reduced ultimate costs + Dragon means that a single BS proc is worth 8.5% of the cost of Warhorn in a single tick. In addition to this is the buffed resistances, which well exceeds that of Chudan and Warden combined, assuming said tank is already maintaining 100% uptime on Major Ward/Resolve. That is 6k armor/spell resistances that cannot be obtained from any other source; it is unique to the set itself, and since it's not a named buff (Major/Minor) it can stack with any and all other buffs of the same stats.

I know it sounds like a low proc rate, but it's a 6% each time we take damage. I'd note here that the tooltip specifies "when being hit" but in practice, AoE damage and DoT effects can proc this too. I've stepped in and out of Kena's lightning walls intentionally to proc Blood Spawn to generate War Horns for damage phases. When we consider that best case scenario means we are getting hit by a large number of enemies, the proc on BS is virtually guaranteed. Worst-case scenario, there are no adds and only a single enemy attacking us once every second, on average. In this particular scenario, the proc rate on Blood Spawn is much closer to that of what the tooltip actually states, however we are still not accounting for DoTs. The end-result is one that caters to support tanks, rather than the Indomitable Wall; said tank could do better in terms of mitigation by using different sets, but BS is the cherry on top that completes the build. I've personally tried other combinations of sets, but in every scenario that ugly gargoyle is providing the most benefit to the group, at the very least given the possible combinations in today's game.

Liofa

@MrTarkanian48

Totally not necessary to run Dunmer . You can tank everything even with a Wood Elf . There are no flame damages in this game that is scary enough to make anyone consider curing Vampire or going Dunmer . I tank with Dunmer because I like Dunmers . Not because of ES lore . I just like Forgotten Realms series so much ^^ Dark Elves ftw in every universe !

About Blood Spawn , it agree that it has a very low proc chance but what is the better option ? Lord Warden ? Chudan ? Don't even bother with them . More mitigation you have , less benefit you get from mitigation bonuses . Lord Warden is only good for off tanks for buffing team and Chudan is a joke . Blood Spawn procs a lot when you tank lots of stuff . Axes in AA , the boss on the left with dogs in Hel Ra . Twins in MoL . These are just some examples . I don't even mention that there are lots of trash fights where Blood Spawn can proc more .

Lefthy

@AverageJo3Gam3r @Liofa @Autolycus

Thanks for the responses! they where very helpfull and i will consider this next time i make changes on my tank.

lynog85

5 pc tavas, 2 bloodspawn. 1 potentates neck 2x yokeda rings, 1x masters sword defending. Backbar 2 potentates sword and board with warhorn on backbar. I get near 100% uptime on warhorns with this set up

hrothbern

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

Hashtag_

hrothbern wrote: »

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

No, it's not best in slot. Defending is preferred.

hrothbern

Hashtag_ wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

No, it's not best in slot. Defending is preferred.

Yeah, can understand that.
Defending with 2.5k Armor Resist helps using sets like mentioned above that really add to your Ultimate gain.

How high should the chance be for Decisive to get that 1 additional Ultimate to be desirable ?
100% ?
Or would that 100% still be underwhelming ?

Hashtag_

hrothbern wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

No, it's not best in slot. Defending is preferred.

Yeah, can understand that.
Defending with 2.5k Armor Resist helps using sets like mentioned above that really add to your Ultimate gain.

How high should the chance be for Decisive to get that 1 additional Ultimate to be desirable ?
100% ?
Or would that 100% still be underwhelming ?

I run the following

7/7 Heavy - All Health Enchants on Armor
Larg pieces - Reinforced
Small pieces - Sturdy
Swords - Defending
Boards - Reinforced

2 pc Bloodspawn
5 pc Tava's
5 pc Footmans

Jewelry Enchants
1 reduce feat cost
1 reduce spell cost
1 reduce block cost

Mundus: Atro

With purple gear/purple enchants/purple food these are my stats without bloodspawn proc'd on my redguard stam dk



Health - 31k
Stam - 25k
Magicka - 14k

Spell Resist - 34.5k
Physical Resist - 32.4k

Stam Recovery: 975ish
Mag Recovery: 900ish


Ult regen out the butt.


My bar setups are


SnB1 - Pierece Armor, heroic slash, igneous shield, vigor, absorb magick - aggressive warhorn

SnB2 - Inner fire, choking talons, volatile armor, shuffle, unrelenting grip - corrosive OR standard


With this setup according to my halfass calculations I have my block cost mitigation around 70% and with constitution passives + redguard passives stamina has rarely been an issue. At times I run out of magicka but it's not that big of a deal cause I can pop igneous/rally and perma block while I gain magicka back then hit volatile.

Liofa

I use Decisive . 2.5k resist is just low when you consider diminishing values . It adds like 1-2% , maybe less . I tanked vMoL several times with 25k armor with minor and major resist buffs applied . I am sure it is tankable even with 20k . You just need to be careful . My point is , if I can tank with 25k armor , you not go Decisive for more Ultigen ?

MrTarkanian48

@Liofa

One other question. I noticed that you run Dragon 3 pc Jewelry, and 1H1S on back bar, Agility 1H1S front bar. I am assuming this is for the added stats on your main bar with the ability to swap back for the reduced Ult cost on back bar.

I am on console and still trying to piece the dragon set together. The rings, shields , and weapons still seem very rare.

Is there any issue with having part of your Tava's set on your weapons? Does the buff get screwed up in any way when swapping bars?

I was considering 5 Dragon (3 Jewelry, 2 body) 5 Tavas (3 Body, 1H1S on both bars) 2 pc Bloodspawn.

Other than the lost stamina on the front bar, would I have any issues with this setup?

Liofa

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

@Liofa

One other question. I noticed that you run Dragon 3 pc Jewelry, and 1H1S on back bar, Agility 1H1S front bar. I am assuming this is for the added stats on your main bar with the ability to swap back for the reduced Ult cost on back bar.

I am on console and still trying to piece the dragon set together. The rings, shields , and weapons still seem very rare.

Is there any issue with having part of your Tava's set on your weapons? Does the buff get screwed up in any way when swapping bars?

I was considering 5 Dragon (3 Jewelry, 2 body) 5 Tavas (3 Body, 1H1S on both bars) 2 pc Bloodspawn.

Other than the lost stamina on the front bar, would I have any issues with this setup?

Not at all . But if you want that 2 piece bonus (like I get from Agility front bar) , you better continue looking for sword and shield of dragon ^^

EDIT : If you cannot find them , you can go 3 piece Potentates jewelry and Agility/Endurance Sword/Shield . You will only lose 5% Ultimate cost reduction but gain 1.5k resources .

Autolycus

hrothbern wrote: »

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

I use decisive weapons, not defending. Unless the resistances are necessary for mitigation in your build, I consider decisive to be a BiS trait. When it comes to tanking though, weapon traits are circumstantial. It really is more about what you need given your setup, and as it pertains to ultimate-regen tanking, what is generally needed is group utility.

There are definitely exceptions to this logic, but those exceptions are fights that are less of a dps race, and more mechanic-based. I've been doing this a lot lately, but I point to the Warrior on hardmode as a good example. Dps is still a very prominent and necessary component to success on this fight, but it serves as a prime example of when a tank should be a little more concerned with mitigation and max health vs. more ultimate.

Personofsecrets

subbing

hrothbern

Autolycus wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Nobody is using a weapon with the decisive trait ?

I use decisive weapons, not defending. Unless the resistances are necessary for mitigation in your build, I consider decisive to be a BiS trait. When it comes to tanking though, weapon traits are circumstantial. It really is more about what you need given your setup, and as it pertains to ultimate-regen tanking, what is generally needed is group utility.

There are definitely exceptions to this logic, but those exceptions are fights that are less of a dps race, and more mechanic-based. I've been doing this a lot lately, but I point to the Warrior on hardmode as a good example. Dps is still a very prominent and necessary component to success on this fight, but it serves as a prime example of when a tank should be a little more concerned with mitigation and max health vs. more ultimate.

Default Decisive unless something else really knocks on the door
makes sense
even when the benefit of Decisive is not that high.

NBrookus

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

I was considering 5 Dragon (3 Jewelry, 2 body) 5 Tavas (3 Body, 1H1S on both bars) 2 pc Bloodspawn.

This post seems to be from a PvE perspective, but I am running this setup in PvP sometimes, using decisive weapons. If I am being hit a lot, the ult regen is insane. So much so, it's probably overkill from a PvE perspective if the goal is 100% Warhorn uptime.

Potentates is MUCH cheaper than Dragonguard, and since it is a full jewelry set right now that leaves you a lot of flexibility on the two extra pieces. It'll certainly be a much cheaper experiment with Potentates -- free, if you have the AP to gamble.

MrTarkanian48

NBrookus wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

I was considering 5 Dragon (3 Jewelry, 2 body) 5 Tavas (3 Body, 1H1S on both bars) 2 pc Bloodspawn.

This post seems to be from a PvE perspective, but I am running this setup in PvP sometimes, using decisive weapons. If I am being hit a lot, the ult regen is insane. So much so, it's probably overkill from a PvE perspective if the goal is 100% Warhorn uptime.

Potentates is MUCH cheaper than Dragonguard, and since it is a full jewelry set right now that leaves you a lot of flexibility on the two extra pieces. It'll certainly be a much cheaper experiment with Potentates -- free, if you have the AP to gamble.

It is intended for PVE tanking. I completely overlooked that potentates now drops in rings. This may open some other options that I did not consider and would be easier to acquire than the Dragon rings at the moment. Though I do prefer the 2-3-4 bonuses from Dragon. Thanks for the suggestion.

Waffennacht

I've been watching this thread with great interest.

I know DK seems to be the best option, if I were to try something like this, how would a sorc fair? They do have the passive ult cost reduction

Personofsecrets

The problem with any non-dk class is that they can't cast elude or heroic slash as often as the dk can. The reason for this is because DK has really good resource management thanks to Battle Roar (and other things that shall not be named).

So even though another class may look good on paper thanks to their super awesome passives I believe that they will end up being at the same level or worse than the DK.

MrTarkanian48

Waffennacht wrote: »

I've been watching this thread with great interest.

I know DK seems to be the best option, if I were to try something like this, how would a sorc fair? They do have the passive ult cost reduction

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The problem with any non-dk class is that they can't cast elude or heroic slash as often as the dk can. The reason for this is because DK has really good resource management thanks to Battle Roar (and other things that shall not be named).

So even though another class may look good on paper thanks to their super awesome passives I believe that they will end up being at the same level or worse than the DK.

I agree 100% with @Personofsecrets statement. The Battle Roar passive is huge, and I can't really imagine running on another class. I have considered a Stam Sorc tank, however, I did not bother due to the following shortcomings:

1: Dark Deal seems like a great tank ability on paper. Convert Magicka to Stam and Health. However, the 1 second channel time is a deal breaker for me. It would be very risky to drop block for 1 second in times when you are pressured heavily and this is when you would need those resources the most.

2: They have 15% Ult cost reduction. This stacks multiplicative with 15% from Dragon set. So a DK running Dragon has a 213 Warhorn cost, and a stam Sorc would have 181. There is a 5 Ult diminishing return (rather negligible but worth noting). However, DK's also generate 3 Ult and 5% stamina whenever using an Earthen Heart ability due to Mountains Blessing. As long you use an EH ability every 6 seconds, like Igneous or Cinder Storm, it somewhat offsets the Ult advantage of Sorc and also restores Stamina.

4: DK Draconic passives are just made for tanks. 10% additional block mitigation. 12% healing received. Increased Spell Resist.

5: DK utility skills like Chains, Choking Talons, Cinder Storm. These just make life easy during trash pulls. Group everything up, lock them down with Talons, and let the DPS AoE them down. Major Mending from Igneous Shield with Draconic passives makes it easier on the healer to keep you topped off.

6: Battle Roar is the biggest advantage. When potion is on cool down and stam is running low I can usually get enough stam from Mountains Blessing to block a couple hits until Warhorn pops, and then you basically fill your resources and go back to work. Also Hardened Armor can be huge as well, basically making you immortal, and allowing you to pull off some pretty clutch resurrections

You can definitely tank on any build. Put DK's just seem designed for it, so I don't bother with other classes.

Autolycus

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The problem with any non-dk class is that they can't cast elude or heroic slash as often as the dk can. The reason for this is because DK has really good resource management thanks to Battle Roar (and other things that shall not be named).

So even though another class may look good on paper thanks to their super awesome passives I believe that they will end up being at the same level or worse than the DK.

Except NB tanks have Major Evasion through Blur, which is a magicka ability, so places no strain on the stamina pool, and have the most efficient means of resource sustain of any class due to light attack weaving with Siphoning Attacks. A NB tank can easily run Deep Slash (or heroic slash, though that's more of a non-NB morph), which has 3x the chance to proc the Siphoning Attacks secondary effect.

Sorcs have Dark Deal (which is amazing) and despite the short cast time, it's really not difficult to fit in every once in awhile, plus they have naturally higher stamina pools anyway due to Bound Armaments. Can't speak for sustain on Templars, however; that's not my forte.