ZOS Please be consistent, we need Cloak Fatigue, but only if you Fix it.

Randomgamers

ZOS Please be consistent, we need Cloak Fatigue.

Roll dodge Fatigue
Streak Fatigue
We need Cloak Fatigue but only if you fix cloak first.
GIVE US PURGE BACK TO CLOAK!!!

So many Dots, PSNs, and not to mention stupid stuff that pulls you out of cloak, because you guys cant figure it out.
No class should be perma cloaked, sorry magicka NBs but come on, yes then you will need a buff to other skills.

SIMPLE FIX :

Cloak will now have a Fatigue where if you cast it again within 3-4 secs it will increase the cost by X Amount.
Cloak will now Purge everything ( purge has a 15-20 sec Cooldown )

Bakven

I main a magblade and I would absolutely agree to this. I never liked the idea that we could perma cloak (even though I've done it before). Sorcs have complained about the streak additive cost and imo it was needed. Cloak is a useful skill but it should have a penalty for using it. You'll hear the stamblades cry since they can only use it three times lol. But Zos does really need to fix cloak and then balance it.

Randomgamers

Yes, they do need to fix it before this would come into effect.

Just fix cloak like WTH, gap closers still pull me out, and give us the purge with it again, with the 15-20 sec cooldown.

Randomgamers

I mean the reason stam NBs have to spam cloak is because stupid stuff pulls them out, fix the damn spell already.

helediron

No to OP. NB mages really should keep permacloak. That IS their key difference.

MalakithAlamahdi

Dots don't do damage while you're cloaked anymoe since DB. Also, magelight and evil hunter don't work 80% of the time. I can't even count the amount of times anymore in which i had a dot, curse, maglight on a guy while touching him and he just cloaks away. It's a cheap way out compared to all other skills in the game, so i agree it should have fatigue as well.

Also fix the counters against cloak while you're at it, the only thing that seems to work for me against it is caltrops.

Randomgamers

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Dots don't do damage while you're cloaked anymoe since DB. Also, magelight and evil hunter don't work 80% of the time. I can't even count the amount of times anymore in which i had a dot, curse, maglight on a guy while touching him and he just cloaks away. It's a cheap way out compared to all other skills in the game, so i agree it should have fatigue as well.

Also fix the counters against cloak while you're at it, the only thing that seems to work for me against it is caltrops.

no buddy you don't get the fatigue and the way cloak is now, one or the other.

A player should get popped out of cloak with skills like Magelight, pots, caltrops, and any projectile AOE, while Dots, PSNs, and gap closers should not knock me out of cloak, they don't do dmg but they knock me out of cloak, so i have to spam it over and over again, which is dumb.

Just give us Purge back to Cloak and then add a fatigue cost.

MalakithAlamahdi

Randomgamers wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Dots don't do damage while you're cloaked anymoe since DB. Also, magelight and evil hunter don't work 80% of the time. I can't even count the amount of times anymore in which i had a dot, curse, maglight on a guy while touching him and he just cloaks away. It's a cheap way out compared to all other skills in the game, so i agree it should have fatigue as well.

Also fix the counters against cloak while you're at it, the only thing that seems to work for me against it is caltrops.

no buddy you don't get the fatigue and the way cloak is now, one or the other.

A player should get popped out of cloak with skills like Magelight, pots, caltrops, and any projectile AOE, while Dots, PSNs, and gap closers should not knock me out of cloak, they don't do dmg but they knock me out of cloak, so i have to spam it over and over again, which is dumb.

Just give us Purge back to Cloak and then add a fatigue cost.

I meant that they should add fatigue, since to many people spam it and it's a way out of anything since the counters are broken. Maglight doesn't work, evil hunter doesnt work, DoT doesnt work (they dont do damage now either, i've tested it), and curse only does after 3 seconds which makes it useless.

I would like it if the purge was back (since that would be fair) and them adding fatigue to it. Also them fixing the counters like magelight and DoT, since every skill has a counter. Streak has gab closers, dodge has channeled attacks, DK doesnt really have one and cloak is to broken right now, it is inconsistent and the counters don't work most of the time either.

MalakithAlamahdi

helediron wrote: »

No to OP. NB mages really should keep permacloak. That IS their key difference.

Which is cheap, just like streak used to be. No class should have a skill with which they can chicken out of every fight if they start losing.

leepalmer95

Cloak is OP, the purge on cloak was OP.

Nb's can survive just fine without cloak, both my mag and stam nb handle it easily. Just people are so used to having a OP get out of trouble card that they are unwilling to give up.

I still think the ability to just go invisible and auto dodge skills is strong enough not sure why a 100% crit/stun or dmg reduction is needed. Nevermind them 'suppressing dots'.

WreckfulAbandon

Cloak doesn't need another nerf.

Vangy

Im fine with perma cloak. I just pop a detect pot and go to town on dat NB. Plus detect pots can come with many additional effects too =X.

I am however, against the idea of giving purge back to cloak. That is ridonculous. Such a cheap skill that not only breaks moves that require LOS (like channels such as RD or soul tether) but also cleanses DOTS is a bit too OP. Increase base cost significantly AND add a fatigue to it, then ill be okay with it granting purge. If you are a magblade and you need to purge, I really dont see why you cant use the alliance war skill.

Rohamad_Ali

This is a trick yes ?

WarLord2905

No way, cloak does not need a nerf. Why does everyone want to nerf class abilities because they can't counter them. It's just like the RD nerf threads....

Stoopid_Nwah

I'd happily say sure give cloak fatigue IF these things happened...

• S*** that isn't supposed to pull me out of cloak doesn't.
• Increase the duration to four seconds.
• No locking out cloak. Make magelight work like a detect pot where you see me, but I don't have a wasted unusable ability slotted.
• Don't give it a purge back (poor mdks don't need that nonsense) but please do keep the suppression while cloaked even if it does say...half dot damage rather than full suppression?
• Perhaps add snare immunity (in cloak) to the dark cloak morph rather than protection? Shadowy disguise can keep its guaranteed crit. Most magicka nbs would go dark cloak again and not have to be a vampire for mist form, but gankers and stam nbs would (I assume) prefer shadowy disguise.
• The whole stealth/hidden thing gets fixed (I'll get away, los behind a wall, crouch and...detected with nothing around). This is probably one of the biggest reasons I cloak instead of crouch.

WarLord2905

Cloak doesn't offer anything else other than stealth, no movement speed, no damage to players except a Crit which in PVP doesn't mean much with the impen meta and last about 3 seconds so you can't do anything else while trying to escape and spam it. While we are are adding fatigue to skills why not include breath of life, flappy wings, poison arrow, crit Rush, biting jabs, hardened ward.... The list could go on and on.

DannyLV702

I think the fatigue should be after three consecutive cloaks

arkansas_ESO

The reason Streak and dodge roll have an increasing cost is because there's no way to "lock" out somebody from using them, unlike how you can lock somebody from cloaking by using AOE, magelight/camo hunter, or detect pots.

Stoopid_Nwah

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The reason Streak and dodge roll have an increasing cost is because there's no way to "lock" out somebody from using them, unlike how you can lock somebody from cloaking by using AOE, magelight/camo hunter, or detect pots.

Fantastic point. I'm going to add that to my list.

Derra

I think it would be aweseome to have reflect back to unlimited and have a reflect fatigue of 8s starting with cast. Weaker 1v1 but stronger vs many ppl where DK is in need of help imo.

mtwiggz

Cloak Fatigue is the absolute most ridiculous nerf.

Did streak have a hard counter? Nope.
Did dodge roll have a hard counter? Nope.
Did/does cloak have a hard counter? Yes.

Magelight, Revealing Flare, Mark Target, detection potions, any AoE ability, etc.

So on top of the numerous abilities in game that completely negate the use of cloak you also want a fatigue to be added to it? People like you are the reason why things get nerfed for no reason. Learn to use simple game mechanics to overcome your enemies. Don't come to the forums crying for nerfs for things you are simply too daft to figure out on your own.

RobTheAxe

I'm going to dare a response to a PVP balance topic. I will begin by saying that I enjoy the PVP and combat balance/style in this game. Certainly there are a number of skills that stand out as 'must haves' that greatly impact the game, and while those could be the topic of discussion, for now I want to post about Evil Hunter. While my experience has been limited entirely to non-cp pvp, and I am still sort of a noob in that not all class mechanics are fully understood, in truth I like to select my skills based on a mixture of effectiveness and other factors, including effect animation/graphic, and roleplay aspects. For some of those reasons, In Theory I enjoy using Evil Hunter on my bars. I like the look of the skills, and its conceptual function, revealing cloakers while either passing them perhaps while scouring a keep for lingering assailants or even while battling them to prevent the repeated ambush attack. The skill, however, has a fairly high cost, besides taking up a bar slot, which are invaluable. True, it gives crit and weapon damage for being slotted, but it would be nice if it functioned properly as well - while I have revealed hiding cloakers with it a few times, it usually seems ineffective. Further, while battling NBs, it seems I need to anticipate when they will cast cloak in order to draw them out (often it has a slight delay, enough time for them to cloak-attack (again, I'm not sure if this is a powerful move in CP campaigns as I wasn't wearing full impen on bwb)) which made activation of E.H. only a waste of stamina. So both in revealing hidden or recent cloakers, and fighting NBs, E.H. seems to under perform to me. I would suggest doubling the detection range of the skill. I understand that if the skill was made too powerful, everyone would use it - but since the TTK seems much lower on CP-PVP, perhaps not, as every skill selected is critical. I feel this skill has a great chance to be an interesting and flavorful utility choice, but is not quite performing correctly.

SHOW

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

MalakithAlamahdi

SHOW wrote: »

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

Magelight is broken, it doesnt do a thing 80% of the time and the range is absolute garbage, if you do get spotted it's just dodgeroll twice and cloak again.

You got a set against shields. Classes using shields have low stamina, just stunn them twice and they're a sitting duck.

You got defile, from potions, a set and multiple skills.

Every NB uses magor evasion. That whole skill should just be removed.

Minno

There are plenty of counters to nightblades.
So no to this change.

Stoopid_Nwah

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

SHOW wrote: »

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

Magelight is broken, it doesnt do a thing 80% of the time and the range is absolute garbage, if you do get spotted it's just dodgeroll twice and cloak again.

You got a set against shields. Classes using shields have low stamina, just stunn them twice and they're a sitting duck.

You got defile, from potions, a set and multiple skills.

Every NB uses magor evasion. That whole skill should just be removed.

Radiant magelight has a better range, just saying. And yes defile exists, but it doesn't render healing useless/unusable.

Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time.

And if it's going to turn into a "nerf cloak thread as much as possible" then let me just drop these tips here for you guys...
Templars-sweeps/jabs, dark flare, your purifying ritual that causes a giant orange circle for me to avoid.
Sorcs-streak, boundless, evenmoreso that stupid hurricane s*** which is another giant circle I have to avoid, encase, defensive rune, curse.
Nbs-mark, sap essence/power extraction, path, shades.
Dks-talons, volatile armour, engulfing flames, maybe more (only played mdk for a short while).
And for everyone: any d*** aoe, detection pots, radiant magelight/evil hunter, revealing flare.

I mean seriously, I have four magicka nbs and can handle if you add in cloak fatigue (with numerous exceptions as listed in my above post). Do I want it to happen? No. Do I think it needs it? No. But if it will get people to stop whining about cloak then fine.

MalakithAlamahdi

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

SHOW wrote: »

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

Magelight is broken, it doesnt do a thing 80% of the time and the range is absolute garbage, if you do get spotted it's just dodgeroll twice and cloak again.

You got a set against shields. Classes using shields have low stamina, just stunn them twice and they're a sitting duck.

You got defile, from potions, a set and multiple skills.

Every NB uses magor evasion. That whole skill should just be removed.

Radiant magelight has a better range, just saying. And yes defile exists, but it doesn't render healing useless/unusable.

Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time.

And if it's going to turn into a "nerf cloak thread as much as possible" then let me just drop these tips here for you guys...
Templars-sweeps/jabs, dark flare, your purifying ritual that causes a giant orange circle for me to avoid.
Sorcs-streak, boundless, evenmoreso that stupid hurricane s*** which is another giant circle I have to avoid, encase, defensive rune, curse.
Nbs-mark, sap essence/power extraction, path, shades.
Dks-talons, volatile armour, engulfing flames, maybe more (only played mdk for a short while).
And for everyone: any d*** aoe, detection pots, radiant magelight/evil hunter, revealing flare.

I mean seriously, I have four magicka nbs and can handle if you add in cloak fatigue (with numerous exceptions as listed in my above post). Do I want it to happen? No. Do I think it needs it? No. But if it will get people to stop whining about cloak then fine.

Radiant is less bugged, but still bugged. And yes, defile deffinately can. My stamina DK causes templars to just heal 5% of their health bar with breath of life, it's fun seeing them panic.

"Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time."

Toppling charge still locks all my skills for 20 seconds and makes me a walking target very often. This has been like this since Beta.

Cloak is bugged, sometimes you get pulled out by nothing and oftenly nothing pull you out of it, this has been a complain of me and a lot of guildies since DB. They should just fix this game already and then talk about nerfs and buffs.

Stoopid_Nwah

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

SHOW wrote: »

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

Magelight is broken, it doesnt do a thing 80% of the time and the range is absolute garbage, if you do get spotted it's just dodgeroll twice and cloak again.

You got a set against shields. Classes using shields have low stamina, just stunn them twice and they're a sitting duck.

You got defile, from potions, a set and multiple skills.

Every NB uses magor evasion. That whole skill should just be removed.

Radiant magelight has a better range, just saying. And yes defile exists, but it doesn't render healing useless/unusable.

Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time.

And if it's going to turn into a "nerf cloak thread as much as possible" then let me just drop these tips here for you guys...
Templars-sweeps/jabs, dark flare, your purifying ritual that causes a giant orange circle for me to avoid.
Sorcs-streak, boundless, evenmoreso that stupid hurricane s*** which is another giant circle I have to avoid, encase, defensive rune, curse.
Nbs-mark, sap essence/power extraction, path, shades.
Dks-talons, volatile armour, engulfing flames, maybe more (only played mdk for a short while).
And for everyone: any d*** aoe, detection pots, radiant magelight/evil hunter, revealing flare.

I mean seriously, I have four magicka nbs and can handle if you add in cloak fatigue (with numerous exceptions as listed in my above post). Do I want it to happen? No. Do I think it needs it? No. But if it will get people to stop whining about cloak then fine.

Radiant is less bugged, but still bugged. And yes, defile deffinately can. My stamina DK causes templars to just heal 5% of their health bar with breath of life, it's fun seeing them panic.

"Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time."

Toppling charge still locks all my skills for 20 seconds and makes me a walking target very often. This has been like this since Beta.

Cloak is bugged, sometimes you get pulled out by nothing and oftenly nothing pull you out of it, this has been a complain of me and a lot of guildies since DB. They should just fix this game already and then talk about nerfs and buffs.

That's a bug...and while I sympathize it is not working as intended. The lockout of cloak is intended. Huge difference and something I strongly feel should not be in the game.

In healing terms/defile, you can stack both to insane numbers, very true, but it's not like I can stack my cloaking with cp points to make it have extra duration or a better immunity to dots and gap closers pulling me out lol. And you have to stack to do a full defile on a decked out healer, even then it may not counter 100%...detect pots 100% negate cloak with one pop of a potion.

QuebraRegra

Randomgamers wrote: »

ZOS Please be consistent, we need Cloak Fatigue.

Roll dodge Fatigue
Streak Fatigue
We need Cloak Fatigue but only if you fix cloak first.
GIVE US PURGE BACK TO CLOAK!!!

So many Dots, PSNs, and not to mention stupid stuff that pulls you out of cloak, because you guys cant figure it out.
No class should be perma cloaked, sorry magicka NBs but come on, yes then you will need a buff to other skills.

SIMPLE FIX :

Cloak will now have a Fatigue where if you cast it again within 3-4 secs it will increase the cost by X Amount.
Cloak will now Purge everything ( purge has a 15-20 sec Cooldown )

Agree and disagree...

Fully agree single DOT removal should come back.

Disagree on "perma cloak". If there were build diversity where a player sacrificed huge DPS, etc for a much longer duration/refresh cloak I'd be ok with it for a"utility" build. Instead, there's no build diversity, just MAX/MAX.

Softcaps wherein you could have either max magicka or a max magicka regen could be a mechanism to address this kind of build diversity. You would need max magicka regen build to get any more than a few cloak refreshes in a balanced system, and you could not also have a max magicka in the same build. Different governing factors.

raasdal

As one who plays mag NB alot;

When cloak works, it is too OP to be spammable. By all rights it should get the Streak / Dodgeroll treatment. Cant see how anyone can argue against it really.

MalakithAlamahdi

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

SHOW wrote: »

Cloak has so many hard counters: magelight, any AOE lol ugh ... Simply drinking a potion?

Sorry for the troll below but it is needed:

May I have a potion that drops all Shields for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that stops Breath Of Life for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

May I have a potion that drops Shuffle for 20 secs for everyone in a 15 meter radius?

We could go on and on there... Just curious, do you think those potions would be fair?

Magelight is broken, it doesnt do a thing 80% of the time and the range is absolute garbage, if you do get spotted it's just dodgeroll twice and cloak again.

You got a set against shields. Classes using shields have low stamina, just stunn them twice and they're a sitting duck.

You got defile, from potions, a set and multiple skills.

Every NB uses magor evasion. That whole skill should just be removed.

Radiant magelight has a better range, just saying. And yes defile exists, but it doesn't render healing useless/unusable.

Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time.

And if it's going to turn into a "nerf cloak thread as much as possible" then let me just drop these tips here for you guys...
Templars-sweeps/jabs, dark flare, your purifying ritual that causes a giant orange circle for me to avoid.
Sorcs-streak, boundless, evenmoreso that stupid hurricane s*** which is another giant circle I have to avoid, encase, defensive rune, curse.
Nbs-mark, sap essence/power extraction, path, shades.
Dks-talons, volatile armour, engulfing flames, maybe more (only played mdk for a short while).
And for everyone: any d*** aoe, detection pots, radiant magelight/evil hunter, revealing flare.

I mean seriously, I have four magicka nbs and can handle if you add in cloak fatigue (with numerous exceptions as listed in my above post). Do I want it to happen? No. Do I think it needs it? No. But if it will get people to stop whining about cloak then fine.

Radiant is less bugged, but still bugged. And yes, defile deffinately can. My stamina DK causes templars to just heal 5% of their health bar with breath of life, it's fun seeing them panic.

"Name one other ability in this game that is able to be locked out. As in can't even hit the button as its blacked out for a short time."

Toppling charge still locks all my skills for 20 seconds and makes me a walking target very often. This has been like this since Beta.

Cloak is bugged, sometimes you get pulled out by nothing and oftenly nothing pull you out of it, this has been a complain of me and a lot of guildies since DB. They should just fix this game already and then talk about nerfs and buffs.

That's a bug...and while I sympathize it is not working as intended. The lockout of cloak is intended. Huge difference and something I strongly feel should not be in the game.

In healing terms/defile, you can stack both to insane numbers, very true, but it's not like I can stack my cloaking with cp points to make it have extra duration or a better immunity to dots and gap closers pulling me out lol. And you have to stack to do a full defile on a decked out healer, even then it may not counter 100%...detect pots 100% negate cloak with one pop of a potion.

This game is just flawed at the core, and needs to be looked at. I agree cloak shoudn't have a lockout, no skill has it. But honestly, they way it is now it's bugged as all hell. It's bugged for the user and the person trying to counter it. It's just frustrating. If they actually fix the skill and counters i think a fatigue would be fair, as it's also on dodges and streaks, which all could be used to chicken ot of fights.