How about an Execute for DKs?

sirrmattus

@Pandorii

What black rose exploit are you speaking of

ZoM_Head

BigBragg wrote: »

DKs are all about connect the DoTs.

Indeed, but on a magicka DK dots are hitting like pillows in pvp.

ZoM_Head

Wollust wrote: »

The only class without any access to an execute is magDK. Stam has the weapon skill lines and the other 3 mag classes have each an execute.

MagDK should definitely get one.

Stamina DKs, Stamina Sorcs and Stamina Templars do NOT have a CLASS execute.

Only the Stamin and Magicka Nightblades have a CLASS execute.

Magicka builds, Templars, Nightblades and Sorcerers have a CLASS execute except the DK.

ZoM_Head

Pandorii wrote: »

@Burning_Talons what do you mean? I've seen the evolution of templars over time, and believe it or not, but beyond their jesus beam and flash flare, they're quite a threadbare.

Prior to TG, the templar community was really upset with many of the nerfs they were getting. This was before they had really had time to test out these powerful skills. In some ways, I feel like these skills were made strong to keep the templars content. I feel like the reason they haven't been nerfed is because it would reveal again that templars are quite disfunctional as a class.

Templars struggle with mobility. They have a gap closer that was buggy for a long time. It's great for getting to a target, but they're terrible for getting away. It doesn't function like bolt or having a bow equipped.

Templar ultimates are pretty lame and not many people really use them. Nova is a meteor for people before they grind out their mages guild. It's a baby version of meteor and requires somebody to activate the synergy to be most effective. The healing ultimate is good in certain fights where you have a large environment dot, like that boss in wayrest sewers, but really it locks the healer into an animation that puts them in harms way (in both PvP and PvE). Lastly, sweeps is pretty useless except for maybe some tank builds. Essentially, as a templar, you're better off running meteor, dawnbreaker, and soul assault over the pewny class ultimate.

Templars are the only class that has an entire skill line devoting to healing, and, yet, they lost their status as the best healer as a result of class changes that were designed to make non-templar healers up to par with them. Some have even argued that sorc healers/twilights can outheal a templar.

The templar shield is no hardened ward (unless you're a blazing shield magnanimous high HP tanky templar).

If you're going to go magicka templar, you're going to be squishy as hell, having to sacrifice some of your magicka recovery to wear heavy armor or go impen on your pieces sacrificing divines/infused traits on your armor.

Stamina templars have their problems to. They can't use two class-defining skills: breath of life and RD, the execute that many people call OP.

I'm NOT saying that RD isn't OP. It is, but if you take that away from templars, you turn them into a bottom feeder class along with mDKs. As for malubeth. You can't blame templars for an overperforming set. Same with Black Rose. All classes can exploit it.

I disagree, while templars before update 5 needed a buff indeed, they got a whole class change in terms of passives and skills. Removing blinding light, in my opinion, and replacing it with a 30 meter execute that still deals a lot of damage at full health is the worst thing ever done. Healers are healers, not executioners, sure they may and should have some offensive skills to go as a DPS build or in PvP, but all you see today in Cyrodiil are templars spamming executes all day long, which can not be dodged (yet everything else can be dodged, strange right?).

DKs do not need an execute, magicka DKs need a whole class rework, in terms of offensive, defensive and supportive passives. If Zenimax wants the DK to be a true DOT build in Cyrodiil, they seriously need to buff or tweak a lot of passives and skills.

There are countless threads with ideas from the community suggesting skills/passives/tweaks the DK should receive, a lot of the ideas/suggestions are very good.

But an execute a DK does NOT need, that is for sure.

Amdar_Godkiller

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

@leepalmer95 how are you calculating these numbers?

The weapon damage medium armor buff is one of the reasons (second being armor sets) that stamina types are able to stack more weapon damage than magicka types can stack spell damage. Plus, 12 percent can be a lot or a little compared to how much the base weapon damage is.

Armour cap is 33000 or is it still 32500?

Every 660 armour is roughly 1% dmg reduction so every 660 penetration is roughly 1% increase.

660 x 8 = 5280, roughly the 5.2k penetration. So it's just about a 8% dmg increase.

As you know your skills dmg is based of max stamina + wpn dmg. Roughly 1050 stamina = 100 wpn dmg.

The % increase increased it off your base damage. It's additive. So on a build with 37k stamina and 2.5k BASE weapon dmg
The 12% will increase your weapon damage by 300. Then if we add the major brutality on top of the base damage.

It's 2500 x 1.2 (20%) + 300 (the 12% boost) = 3300

Now if we change the stamina into weapon damage. We'll go with 1000 = 100 to make it easier.

In total you'd have 7000 'weapon dmg' 300/7000 x 100 = 4.2% dmg increase.

A build with 37k stamina and 3300 weapon dmg, the 12% increases it's damage by 4.2%.

Now there are some cases where someone will stack like 3-3.5k base weapon dmg or something.

But either way these stats are a typical stam build who also has at least some sustain.

I think these numbers are right anyway.

@Pandorii

That seems really low weapon damage.

To be able to do any damage dealing as a Stam build, 3K is basically
a must. 2.5K is achievable in Heavy Armor even. sustain is not difficult for any stam race in PVE, and it's really no
longer an issue in PVP either.
With two recovery set bonuses and 1 recovery enchantment, any stam DK should be fine, as that's gonna take you well
over 1600 recovery, and that's overkill for a class that gets stamina every time it pops a shield.

I only have 2 weapon damage set bonuses (Agility, Clever Alchemist) with 3 WD jewelry enchants, and I'm at 3400 unbuffed.

With Major and minor brutality, this means I'm at over 4000 weapon damage 100% of the time.When I proc alchemist
and my jewelry enchant, I'm sitting at around 5400 weapon damage, which of course contributes to my damage
an amount that's roughly equal to 56000-57000 Max Magic since 1000 actually equals closer to 105 WD


My Max Stamina is 33K, as my build is actually a bit of a hybrid with 20K Magic and 21K Health, and since I'm using
the Pelinals set on my DW/magic bar, my weapon and spell damage are always functionally equal, so fully loaded I'm in the
area of 90000 composite Stam/WD damage. Without the enchant and Alchemist proc, i'm still at 75000. So probably
I'm averaging about 4400-4750 WD, and approximately 80000 for my stam/WD tooltip ratio . This means that my actual
gain from the 12% WD boost is around 1/9 of 4500, so my gain from that particular passive isaround 500 WD
and surpassing the comparative damage provided by 5,250 Stamina or Max Magic.
(keeping in mind that if I were actually straight up min/maxing this number would probably be reasonably larger and that
medium armor passives aren't the only WD modifier, nor is this passive the only DDing boon gained from the Medium armor
skill line)

Interestingly, this means I'm also sitting at roughly 65-70K combined for Magic/Spell Damage, perhaps more due
to fire damage bonuses, since I'm a Dunmer DK Vampire who is primarily using Inhale, and Burning Talons in my
DPS rotations, with roughly 66 CP in elemental expert (between DK passives. Dunmer Passives, and CP, I should
have roughly 31% increased damage with fire)

An MDK would need around 2600 buffed spell damage and 40K Max Magic to equal this which is certainly
doable, but it's a respectable amount of spell power at the least for a build that is primarily focused on maximizing
Stam and WD.

Assuming that the average magic build is around Magic+SD(10.5)=70,000 combined, the increase damage done as
a result of light armor penetration is "5600 = 70k x 1.08"

This means that the damage increase gained through the light armor
penetration passive beats my build's damage increase from this particular medium armor passive
by a ratio of 105:112. My damage increase is 93.75% of this hypothetical magic build's 8% buff.
The difference equates to less than 34 total spell/weapon damage, and would be akin to a 7.5% buff
to the magic build.

A few things to consider, however,

1. Medium armor's weapon's critical bonuses put the damage gain far ahead of light armor

2. Extra spell penetration is needed because most builds have more spell resistance than physical resistance.
This means that the penetration would not necessarily lead to 8% less resistance remaining than an otherwise
comparably geared medium armor wearer. For example, my DK naturally has over 3K less physical resistance than
spell resistance, so a light armor wearing attacker would only take me to 10K resistance, while a medium armor attacker
with no bonus to penetration except 1 Sharpened dagger on his dual wield would out-penetrate the light armor wearer by
about 1%

Against a build like mine, you'd therefore get less than a 4% DPS boost over a Med armor attacker.

3. Most stam builds WD numbers (set bonuses, enchants, and other non-mundus related flat damage increases)
are boosted by an additional factor of at least 8% due to Flawless Dawnbreaker, Fighter's Guild Passives, class passives,
etc. This means, the 186 damage boost from Agility jewelry is typically worth about 25% more than the same
bonus from Willpower sets since spell damage modifiers are much less common.

4. Stam builds also have Max resource modifiers, though far fewer than magic builds (Realistically just Undaunted mettle,
racial passives, the fractional increases acquired from each CP earned [I think],
and Bound Armaments for Sorcs).

So the agility max stam bonus is marginally weaker than WP's max magic bonus.
Probably the average stam build gets around a 12%
total increase to max stamina, and upwards to 26%, however many players don't maximize
undaunted mettle's potential bonus
because of the strength of medium armor passives;
meanwhile the average magic build
will have anywhere between a 15-45% modifier
typically due to high racial passives, Inner Light and other MG skills, class passives, set bonuses,
CP resource gains, and
Bound Aegis. etc (However set bonuses like necropotence that have granted percentage boosts to max magic
seem to be getting phased out in favor of flat damage increases)

5. So while magic can be increased multiplicatively the easiest and to the largest degree, Weapon damage isn't far behind it
and will generally exceed 25%.
Stamina too can be augmented in most builds, and to a degree of over 25% when it comes to REdguard Stam sorcs.

6. Spell damage is therefore much weaker in a practical sense than the other 3 raw sources of damage for most part.
Most magic classes are therefore more depenedent solely on resource growth, while stam and WD tend to be more
balanced or slightly leaning towards raw weapon damage over max stam.