How about an Execute for DKs?

Burning_Talons

Pandorii wrote: »

Pretty much every class has something it lacks. Stam DKs can use executioner from 2h. It's the same for stamplar. The Templar execute is magicka based. Only DKs have wings. Only NBs have cloak. They're supposed to be class defining and create class diversity. Some have argued for all classes to have executes, gap closers, mobility skills, certain resource based ultis, but that would homogenize the classes. I'd rather see a rock paper scissors model where one class is the best against another, and so on. But this idea has a PvP bias.

Something magDK has over stamDK is a class-based spammable: lava whip.

Yea right! You mean how Templars originall had blinding light and it got removed for an execute? Class definig alright

Pandorii

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Pretty much every class has something it lacks. Stam DKs can use executioner from 2h. It's the same for stamplar. The Templar execute is magicka based. Only DKs have wings. Only NBs have cloak. They're supposed to be class defining and create class diversity. Some have argued for all classes to have executes, gap closers, mobility skills, certain resource based ultis, but that would homogenize the classes. I'd rather see a rock paper scissors model where one class is the best against another, and so on. But this idea has a PvP bias.

Something magDK has over stamDK is a class-based spammable: lava whip.

Ahem, this is false. Everyone has access to a "cloak" (and a better one at that) with an invisibility potion. Not only that but Cloak is the ability with the most abilities/items/skills specifically built to counter it.

Wish I could drink a potion and gain other classes "defining" abilities

What platform do you play on @PlagueMonk. On consoles, it's really hard to toggle from one potion to another during combat. You'll likely want to pick your primary potion on the hotbar for when you press up. Those would be your tri-pots. Then, if the situation arises, you can probably use a detect pot, because you're looking for a fight. Switching from a tri-pot to an immovability pot, and then, to an invisibility pot is complicated, distracting, and difficult.

Pandorii

Bromburak wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Every class has an execute, why don't DKs?

Really? What's the Stam Sorc execute called?

Executes are nice but the reality is that it's a bad habit by ESO players.
What we need is more diversity and not cloning every damn skill bar.

But the diversity should come from class abilities and not by recommended Wrobel workarounds like using 2H.

Stam Sorc execute is executioner from 2h. I 100 percent agree with you that it sucks that all stam classes rely so heavily on their 2h skills. It makes them all play/feel the same, but they have one available to them. Magicka DKs do not.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

MrAppleman wrote: »

Is that why my mdk beats most magplar in bloodspawn dps? Must be the lack of execute.

No it's because dots are effective in pve, fights last a while. Dots are that good in pvp as it's all about burst and 2 classes have skills to deal with dots with purge being around for everyone.

Mag dk's just need more things to increase there dps overall. Problem is everytime an idea is brought up the pve people come in and feel the need to be sarcastic. Not like pve is easy enough but yeah.

Maybe something like a passive which has armour penetration? Major breach/fracture when damaged by a fire skill?

Won't affect pve because anything thats even remotely 'difficult' will have the same debuff applied via the tank.

Or just give the passive execute and make dots work like injection to players only.

Could just put detonation on your bar to stop people from purging - or force them to purge it in the middle of their group...

Browiseth

Why does every class have to be the same, though? I play a stamina sorc, and that doesn't have a built in execute. You can argue that I use the two-handed execute. Ok, what if I want to run dual wield/sword n' board? With the logic we're using right now, every class, skill line and weapon should have access to the same abilities as everyone else, but only when it benefits me.

Pandorii

@Burning_Talons what do you mean? I've seen the evolution of templars over time, and believe it or not, but beyond their jesus beam and flash flare, they're quite a threadbare.

Prior to TG, the templar community was really upset with many of the nerfs they were getting. This was before they had really had time to test out these powerful skills. In some ways, I feel like these skills were made strong to keep the templars content. I feel like the reason they haven't been nerfed is because it would reveal again that templars are quite disfunctional as a class.

Templars struggle with mobility. They have a gap closer that was buggy for a long time. It's great for getting to a target, but they're terrible for getting away. It doesn't function like bolt or having a bow equipped.

Templar ultimates are pretty lame and not many people really use them. Nova is a meteor for people before they grind out their mages guild. It's a baby version of meteor and requires somebody to activate the synergy to be most effective. The healing ultimate is good in certain fights where you have a large environment dot, like that boss in wayrest sewers, but really it locks the healer into an animation that puts them in harms way (in both PvP and PvE). Lastly, sweeps is pretty useless except for maybe some tank builds. Essentially, as a templar, you're better off running meteor, dawnbreaker, and soul assault over the pewny class ultimate.

Templars are the only class that has an entire skill line devoting to healing, and, yet, they lost their status as the best healer as a result of class changes that were designed to make non-templar healers up to par with them. Some have even argued that sorc healers/twilights can outheal a templar.

The templar shield is no hardened ward (unless you're a blazing shield magnanimous high HP tanky templar).

If you're going to go magicka templar, you're going to be squishy as hell, having to sacrifice some of your magicka recovery to wear heavy armor or go impen on your pieces sacrificing divines/infused traits on your armor.

Stamina templars have their problems to. They can't use two class-defining skills: breath of life and RD, the execute that many people call OP.

I'm NOT saying that RD isn't OP. It is, but if you take that away from templars, you turn them into a bottom feeder class along with mDKs. As for malubeth. You can't blame templars for an overperforming set. Same with Black Rose. All classes can exploit it.

themdogesbite

If every class should be different from the others, Magicka DKs should get dynamic ultimate regen. No execute needed!

Burning_Talons

Pandorii wrote: »

@Burning_Talons what do you mean? I've seen the evolution of templars over time, and believe it or not, but beyond their jesus beam and flash flare, they're quite a threadbare.

Prior to TG, the templar community was really upset with many of the nerfs they were getting. This was before they had really had time to test out these powerful skills. In some ways, I feel like these skills were made strong to keep the templars content. I feel like the reason they haven't been nerfed is because it would reveal again that templars are quite disfunctional as a class.

Templars struggle with mobility. They have a gap closer that was buggy for a long time. It's great for getting to a target, but they're terrible for getting away. It doesn't function like bolt or having a bow equipped.

Templar ultimates are pretty lame and not many people really use them. Nova is a meteor for people before they grind out their mages guild. It's a baby version of meteor and requires somebody to activate the synergy to be most effective. The healing ultimate is good in certain fights where you have a large environment dot, like that boss in wayrest sewers, but really it locks the healer into an animation that puts them in harms way (in both PvP and PvE). Lastly, sweeps is pretty useless except for maybe some tank builds. Essentially, as a templar, you're better off running meteor, dawnbreaker, and soul assault over the pewny class ultimate.

Templars are the only class that has an entire skill line devoting to healing, and, yet, they lost their status as the best healer as a result of class changes that were designed to make non-templar healers up to par with them. Some have even argued that sorc healers/twilights can outheal a templar.

The templar shield is no hardened ward (unless you're a blazing shield magnanimous high HP tanky templar).

If you're going to go magicka templar, you're going to be squishy as hell, having to sacrifice some of your magicka recovery to wear heavy armor or go impen on your pieces sacrificing divines/infused traits on your armor.

Stamina templars have their problems to. They can't use two class-defining skills: breath of life and RD, the execute that many people call OP.

I'm NOT saying that RD isn't OP. It is, but if you take that away from templars, you turn them into a bottom feeder class along with mDKs. As for malubeth. You can't blame templars for an overperforming set. Same with Black Rose. All classes can exploit it.

@Pandorii TL:DR pretty sure it has something to do with defending RD but my statement wasnt towards nerfing it. I was pointing out Temps didnt have an execute before and now they do. So why cant Dragonknights?

Pandorii

I'm on board with that! @Burning_Talons

I just wish they'd re-evaluate light armor first. I can't believe that medium armor has a weapon damage passive, meanwhile light only gives spell penetration.

Lokey0024

Alcast wrote: »

Molten armaments...wtb old 300% execute

This with a lightning staff. It would make my heavy attack build awesome.

Leon119

How about a class spammable for sorcs

susmitds

How about a class DoT for Stamblades?

Saturn

The whole point of an execute is to give more damage when a target is low health, but when the class already pulls ridiculous DPS, it makes the idea of an execute that does more damage than that seem pretty silly. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if DKs were given an execute it would have to be an orbital strike that scorches the earth and leaves nothing but ashes in its wake, otherwise it would probably be a dps loss, lol.

In serious PvE the highest dps I have seen has come from dragonknights, stam and magicka. Most recently I was in a group with a magicka dragonknight that pulled 46k dps sustained over 6 minutes in vMaw on the last boss.

The last execute they added into the game was the jesus beam which took several iterations before it was balanced. It still remains incredibly powerful and can be used a lot earlier than other execute abilities.

TLDR: No. Bad idea.

leepalmer95

Leon119 wrote: »

How about a class spammable for sorcs

Frags. Not the best idea to be spammed but it can be.

susmitds wrote: »

How about a class DoT for Stamblades?

It's called jabs.

Cinbri

Burning_Talons wrote: »

@Pandorii TL:DR pretty sure it has something to do with defending RD but my statement wasnt towards nerfing it. I was pointing out Temps didnt have an execute before and now they do. So why cant Dragonknights?

1. Templars did have it long time ago in form of Biting Jabs when you could get 100% crit rate vs enemy in execute range. It was removed probably coz having execute capability in main spammable ability is too much and coz this reason I doubt same would be implemented for DKs.
2. Templars started to ask to grant class execute...
3. Templars got execute in exchange of removal of best defense ability ever (Blinding Light) justifying it but some unclear reason. Imagine if dk's Scales would be taken for granting execute. I would never ever accept such trade.
4. Did this rebalancing made us, templars, happier?! Yes, for 1 month of pts when RD was totaly bugged and insanely OP and you could use it as main dps ability. After 1 month when it was fixed, templars realised what a terrible thing happened and wanted back (and still want) Blinding Light. (At least those who doing something else except hiding behind zerg and spam 1 button)

leepalmer95

Pandorii wrote: »

I'm on board with that! @Burning_Talons

I just wish they'd re-evaluate light armor first. I can't believe that medium armor has a weapon damage passive, meanwhile light only gives spell penetration.

5.2k penetration is like 8% dmg increase.

8% overall dmg increase is > 12% weapon damage.

Bromburak

Pandorii wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Every class has an execute, why don't DKs?

Really? What's the Stam Sorc execute called?

Executes are nice but the reality is that it's a bad habit by ESO players.
What we need is more diversity and not cloning every damn skill bar.

But the diversity should come from class abilities and not by recommended Wrobel workarounds like using 2H.

Stam Sorc execute is executioner from 2h. I 100 percent agree with you that it sucks that all stam classes rely so heavily on their 2h skills. It makes them all play/feel the same, but they have one available to them. Magicka DKs do not.

You are missing the point, from class perspective a Stam Sorc has no execute either.

2H became only an option because Stamina builds were an issue since release. (Elder Staff online with Light armor)
Instead fixing and redesigning class morphs to let players decide how to play their class, Wrobel forced players to find work arounds in global skill lines depending on a ressource ...

Today ESO players are used to cloning gap closer , execute builds because class diversity totally failed. Classes barely offer unique possibilities. How can a lead designer not see that his decisions actually made players to pick a ressource first and after decide what class would fit best to get the best available out of a build.

Sure, this kind of design is legit but freedom of choice and class diversity looks different.

Bdawwg

Let's not forget the entire dual wield line is an execute also as is poison arrow from the bow line. I'm not saying they're the best executes but stamina has universal ones available to them.
Ie you have a choice
Mag Dk has no choice
This is all strictly pvp perspective I understand that in pve mag dks are doing very well.

susmitds

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How about a class spammable for sorcs

Frags. Not the best idea to be spammed but it can be.

susmitds wrote: »

How about a class DoT for Stamblades?

It's called jabs.

Check bolded part.

Amdar_Godkiller

You MDKs should give Pelinals Aptitude a shot. It really opens up the whole playbook for Stam DKs and I bet
it could be adapted, along with silks of the sun, Velidreth, and Kena to create a beastly MDK. Stacking weapon
damage and max magic is really easy to do. Burning Talons + Brawler + Inhale + Tornado is a truly magical
combo that really clears out the trash.

blabafat

I actually don't think magicka dk needs more damage. It needs to get more survivability.

Currently, the popular magicka dk setups are more tank than dps. This is because it has to be the case due to dk's lack of survivability tools. Reflect doesn't work sometimes, our dragonblood is a poor heal, and the shield is not useful for much besides major mending. I think people look at how most magicka dks play (tanky) and assume that is how the whole class is. You can hit hard with a magicka dk. There are issues with survivability that limit our options for damage. For instance, s/b is ALMOST a necessity. That already reduces base damage/tooltips.

leepalmer95

susmitds wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How about a class spammable for sorcs

Frags. Not the best idea to be spammed but it can be.

susmitds wrote: »

How about a class DoT for Stamblades?

It's called jabs.

Check bolded part.

Oh right, how about trap beast? Blood craze/ brawler or any other stamina dot.

susmitds

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

How about a class spammable for sorcs

Frags. Not the best idea to be spammed but it can be.

susmitds wrote: »

How about a class DoT for Stamblades?

It's called jabs.

Check bolded part.

Oh right, how about trap beast? Blood craze/ brawler or any other stamina dot.

One extra DoT makes the main difference between classes in end game PvE.

Wycks

Why stop at not having an execute, they do't have a gap closer or decent self heals , truly a well thought out class, it's only been a few years....

Bandit1215

Pandorii wrote: »

Pretty much every class has something it lacks. Stam DKs can use executioner from 2h. It's the same for stamplar. The Templar execute is magicka based. Only DKs have wings. Only NBs have cloak. They're supposed to be class defining and create class diversity. Some have argued for all classes to have executes, gap closers, mobility skills, certain resource based ultis, but that would homogenize the classes. I'd rather see a rock paper scissors model where one class is the best against another, and so on. But this idea has a PvP bias.

Something magDK has over stamDK is a class-based spammable: lava whip.

Except for the fact that, even though it is a class ability, it hits like a wet noodle in comparison to and weapon ability that Stam has

Pandorii

@leepalmer95 how are you calculating these numbers?

The weapon damage medium armor buff is one of the reasons (second being armor sets) that stamina types are able to stack more weapon damage than magicka types can stack spell damage. Plus, 12 percent can be a lot or a little compared to how much the base weapon damage is.

Solariken

Yes, Dk needs a unique execute and Templar needs Major Brutality/Sorcery and then all will be well in Tamriel.

leepalmer95

Pandorii wrote: »

@leepalmer95 how are you calculating these numbers?

The weapon damage medium armor buff is one of the reasons (second being armor sets) that stamina types are able to stack more weapon damage than magicka types can stack spell damage. Plus, 12 percent can be a lot or a little compared to how much the base weapon damage is.

Armour cap is 33000 or is it still 32500?

Every 660 armour is roughly 1% dmg reduction so every 660 penetration is roughly 1% increase.

660 x 8 = 5280, roughly the 5.2k penetration. So it's just about a 8% dmg increase.

As you know your skills dmg is based of max stamina + wpn dmg. Roughly 1050 stamina = 100 wpn dmg.

The % increase increased it off your base damage. It's additive. So on a build with 37k stamina and 2.5k BASE weapon dmg
The 12% will increase your weapon damage by 300. Then if we add the major brutality on top of the base damage.

It's 2500 x 1.2 (20%) + 300 (the 12% boost) = 3300

Now if we change the stamina into weapon damage. We'll go with 1000 = 100 to make it easier.

In total you'd have 7000 'weapon dmg' 300/7000 x 100 = 4.2% dmg increase.

A build with 37k stamina and 3300 weapon dmg, the 12% increases it's damage by 4.2%.

Now there are some cases where someone will stack like 3-3.5k base weapon dmg or something.

But either way these stats are a typical stam build who also has at least some sustain.

I think these numbers are right anyway.

@Pandorii

JDar

[quote="gamerguy757;284640"Every class has an execute, why don't DKs?
[/quote]

Every class has an execute, why don't DKs?

Why don't we give all the classes the same skills so *** can't post garbage threads like this?

JDar

BigBragg wrote: »

DKs are all about connect the DoTs.

What? Are you saying classes are supposed to have different gameplay and dynamics? Wow I must have an IQ below 80 because that never dawned on me.

Similar to OP.