Improvment Tempers/Resins? How Daring Are You???

Night_Wolf2112 · August 2016

I am just curious to see how many crafters out there really live on the edge or are you not that adventurous and will be sure (100%) they will succeed!

Do you always go to 100% on improvement or are you a little risky and take a chance every once in a while the improvement will fail? Does it matter what type of improvement you are making or just when making Gold Items?

Nestor · August 2016

Since you have pretty much a 100% chance to Fail on a Traited Item if you don't have 100% of the Tempers you need, I never risk it anymore.

The only time you have a hope of improving an item with less than the needed Tempers is if the item does not have a Trait on it. Which begs the question, why are you improving it?

SirAndy · August 2016

We (the closed beta testers) did some profiling on this during the beta and it was clear that ZOS has no idea how percentages work.

I've been using 100% ever since ...

phreatophile · August 2016

Not daring at all.

Always at 100%

Lets take a CP160 Rubedite sword as an example.
I'm dealing in Hypothetical values since I haven't bought mats in ages.
110 Rubedite at 35g/ea = 3850g
Style item(rare) = 500g
green&blue Tempers = 250g
Purple Tempers = 1200g
7 Alloy = 45000g

So I risk 50800g worth on the chance of saving 6400g ish on a Gold temper.

That isn't a gamble worth taking.

for green, blue, and purple tempers who cares they're plentiful; much too plentiful to waste materials on saving 1 of them.

AugustoCP · August 2016

Always, always, ALWAYS go for 100%.

negbert · August 2016

Always 100%

Jazbay_Grape · August 2016

I have no balls for this. Always 100% too.

wayfarerx · August 2016

Why in the world would you ever bet anything on the ESO RNG? I get enough of that as it is from every other part of the game.

Pandorii · August 2016

I am zero-daring after I tried to make something gold with 7 out of 8 tempers and failed. T.T Ohh the memories...

Tevalaur · August 2016

In the first few months of playing when even green/blue upgrade mats were not commonly on hand but base mats were easily acquired I did gamble to an extent. If I were making low-level gear and while upgrading to green or blue I sometimes took a chance if 75% or better, but only at levels where I have plenty of the base mats to replace the item if necessary. Although now I have so many of those stockpiled there's really not reason to gamble anymore and will probably just go 100% chance from now on.

With CP150+ gear or when using purple/gold upgrade mats, I always go 100%.

disintegr8 · August 2016

Have always done 100% ever since I lost my first item trying at 75% - not worth the risk and the hassle of having to re-create the item if I lose it.

Acharnor · August 2016

ALWAYS 100%!!!!!!!!!

undefeatdgaul · August 2016

Ive been burned on 90% way too many times. Im stubborn so it took awhile to learn my lesson, but now Im a 100% every single time guy

FortheloveofKrist · August 2016

I tried with one alloy....once. Never again.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

based on the premise of the question, I'm not daring at all.

I have however accidentally used less tempers and it never works out well.

Xexpo · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Since you have a 100% chance to Fail on a Traited Item if you don't have 100% of the Tempers you need, I never risk it anymore.

The only time you have a hope of improving an item with less than the needed Tempers is if the item does not have a Trait on it. Which begs the question, why are you improving it?

After several high percentage failures early in the game, I gave up and always went 100%.
Now I finally know why they always seemed to fail.
Thanks for that nugget of info!

Tevalaur · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Since you have a 100% chance to Fail on a Traited Item if you don't have 100% of the Tempers you need, I never risk it anymore.

The only time you have a hope of improving an item with less than the needed Tempers is if the item does not have a Trait on it. Which begs the question, why are you improving it?

This is simply not true. I've had it succeed with 75% or 90% -- and I've never improved an item that didn't have a trait. I simply have also had it fail and no longer need to try with less than 100%.

Xexpo · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since you have a 100% chance to Fail on a Traited Item if you don't have 100% of the Tempers you need, I never risk it anymore.

The only time you have a hope of improving an item with less than the needed Tempers is if the item does not have a Trait on it. Which begs the question, why are you improving it?

This is simply not true. I've had it succeed with 75% or 90% -- and I've never improved an item that didn't have a trait. I simply have also had it fail and no longer need to try with less than 100%.

Damn

Jciampi · August 2016

I'm usually 100% only. But I've chanced it a few times. I get burned sometimes for sure with 90% chance. Other times like when I chanced a gold upgrade to a weapon with 7 of the 8 tempers, I got lucky.

Ackwalan · August 2016

The math in ESO is all wrong. Anything that is not 100%, is at best 50/50 chance of success.

JKorr · August 2016

Low level stuff improving to green, not worth not going to 100%. Saving one honing stone or hemming or whatever isn't worth it. High level stuff improving to blue and over, not worth not going to 100%. Why take the risk of losing both mats and tempers?

Nestor · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

This is simply not true. I've had it succeed with 75% or 90% -- and I've never improved an item that didn't have a trait. I simply have also had it fail and no longer need to try with less than 100%.

I have done it more than 30 times on the PTS, and about a dozen times on the Live Server, and every single item failed when it was traited. Good to know that it could work with less than 100%. But, this is almost a "Screenshot or it didn't happen" kind of thing. Of course it has been over two years since I tried this. I will have to load up the PTS and try it on there, if my characters are still copied (wait, I think the Template gives you upgrade tempers....)

Tevalaur · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

This is simply not true. I've had it succeed with 75% or 90% -- and I've never improved an item that didn't have a trait. I simply have also had it fail and no longer need to try with less than 100%.

... Of course it has been over two years since I tried this. I will have to load up the PTS and try it on there, if my characters are still copied (wait, I think the Template gives you upgrade tempers....)

They must have fixed it since your tests were so long ago. I've only been playing since late December, so my successes would have been probably sometime between February and May (early May's about when I felt I had enough tempers to just always go 100%).

Tevalaur · August 2016

@Nestor Just went on the PTS and my very first 75% chance success attempt to upgrade a newly created Iron Greatsword with the Powered trait succeeded. 2nd attempt at 75% failed. Then did an 87.5% attempt with tempering alloy and it succeeded. While I don't doubt there was a time that anything less than 100% failed, it is no logner that way.

edit: P.S. This does not mean I suggest going less than 100% on the live server. Just that it is not guaranteed to fail if you do so.

Tarukmockto · August 2016

At the risk of disagreeing with @Nestor, I have to agree with Tevalaur. I too have had less than %100 chances succeed. Usually it was when I made an error and forgot to crank up the number of tempers, or back when the weird bug would randomly reset to 1, and I was too quick to hit R! You hold your breath for those long seconds expecting abject failure, then are delighted with a success!

However I think it's a matter of degrees. Maybe it's not a 100% chance of failure, but more like 99.9% chance! Because of this I always always always spin the number up to max for 100% chance of success.

Nestor · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

@Nestor Just went on the PTS and my very first 75% chance success attempt to upgrade a newly created Iron Greatsword with the Powered trait succeeded. 2nd attempt at 75% failed. Then did an 87.5% attempt with tempering alloy and it succeeded. While I don't doubt there was a time that anything less than 100% failed, it is no logner that way.

edit: P.S. This does not mean I suggest going less than 100% on the live server. Just that it is not guaranteed to fail if you do so.

@Tevalaur

Good to know they adjusted this. I was doing most of my testing back when I had no passives for Tempers so it was taking many times the number of tempers to improve things. I would leave off one temper, just one, thinking what could it matter, 90% is like almost a guarantee. After several of them failing on me on live, I tested more on the PTS. Never would get a a successful improvement at less than 100%. Which irked me as I could get a success on a non traited item with less than 100%, sometimes as low as 50% (I did not know any traits in the early days so most every thing I crafted in the first couple of months did not have any traits)

Still not good enough odds to risk it. So, it is still a good idea to have all the Tempers you need. As, if you skimp on Purple for example, you not only lose the item, you lose the tempers that got you to Blue.

If only the success rate procced like Critical Strike does, where being at 60% to 70% gives you a crit almost every attack. I made an edit to my earlier post.

Lettigall · August 2016

Going for 100%. It's not worth a risk.

newtinmpls · August 2016

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

I am just curious to see how many crafters out there really live on the edge or are you not that adventurous and will be sure (100%) they will succeed!

Do you always go to 100% on improvement or are you a little risky and take a chance every once in a while the improvement will fail? Does it matter what type of improvement you are making or just when making Gold Items?

Always to 100%

Always.

BenevolentBowd · August 2016

Most of time, I use enough for 100%.

When I forget, less than 100%. :-) Usually those sneaky last minute crafting requests that come in before I log off for the night.

laurajf · August 2016

Never attempted less than 100% and never will attempt it. It's just not worth the high likelihood that I'm going to lose my item.

fgoron2000 · August 2016

I did a little bit of 90%, but my brief experience was that it failed a lot more than 10%, so every once in a while I'd do a 90% now & then and cringe when I hit the button, but only if I have plenty of crafting & green tempering mats, but I find I've been doing less & less, because I realized that if I did fail, then it's really 1 step forward & 2 steps back, since I have to start from scratch again, and then I wasted both crafting AND tempering mats...

...now that I think about it as I wrote this, I prolly won't do less than 100% ever again <g>