Are players without DLC or ESO Plus meant to not be allowed to do random dungeons?

CombatPrayer

I have run into this with members of my dungeon running guild. We get a message that members do not have dlc unlocked for that. Then we pass the crown to the person without DLC/ESO. This works because it just limits to dungeons they have. But if another member in the group doesn't have dlc/eso then we still cannot go and everyone loses out on that random daily exp. This seems to me like a core part of the game without DLC/ESO was and should be dungeons given it is an online game. I understand that dungeons from DLC would be excluded if people don't have it, but it seems like it's becoming more of an issue now that hist was released. We were forced out of a random because two people didn't have certain DLC nor did they have ESO. That's pretty screwy. Is there no other way to fix this? If one member has one dlc and another member has another dlc then you cannot do a random because it seems to go by what the leader has and if they each have different DLC there is no way to run a random within that group. Now that hist is released, there are two DLCs that can trigger this message and it's going to be more likely that more people moving forward are going to come across this problem. This means that doing randoms is going to become even more of a chore (to get a group together) to do them. It also means we have more things that slow down doing dungeons, on top of the lovely timer that locks you out if someone in that group was in another group that disbanded for any reason.

Might I suggest an option to 'remove dlc dungeons' if this warning gets triggered and the group wants to do a dungeon and doesn't care which one it is but wants to get one in? We're already dealing with the timer issue. You seem to have fixed the invisible group bug which is great. Now this dlc/eso plus error is popping up and it would be nice to see a workaround for people who do not have dlc. I have a dungeon running guild and the majority of my dungeon runners don't really care which dungeon they do, but they do care that they we are not able to grab randoms for members who want to get them in for that extra exp. A workaround for this would be nice.

Whitesoulz

I just wish the damn thing worked 1 hour and waiting as tank/dps!

CombatPrayer

If you are AD you could join my dungeon running guild. We have people running them throughout the day. Most that happens is they have to grab one or two people from the zone. Usually we get most people in guild chat, and you get used to the people you run with. Works like a charm. And people as a rule are generally pretty awesome and nice.

Daemons_Bane

Queueing for random needs dlc, since random can send you to dlc dungeons

CombatPrayer

So this means if you do not have dlc you are not allowed to do random dungeons anymore. And it also means that what was a feature of the game at one time is no longer a feature of the game because of dlc. That seems.... wrong.

Whitesoulz

Yeah, hope they fix it...stupid as hell lol

schnooty

Just have someone who doesn't have the dlc be leader and que the random dungeon. You won't get a dlc dungeon, but you will get to do one.

Enodoc

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

Jeremy

Whitesoulz wrote: »

I just wish the damn thing worked 1 hour and waiting as tank/dps!

Agreed.

I haven't been able to get a single hit on the dungeon finder for over a week now. I really wish they would fix it, because this is the biggest problem holding the game back IMHO.

Lysette

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

It's nevertheless weird - because it basically penalizes people for having DLCs, what is just silly.

Enodoc

Lysette wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

It's nevertheless weird - because it basically penalizes people for having DLCs, what is just silly.

Yeah, ideally the system would be able to tell based on the whole group which dungeons were actually available to them. It shouldn't pick a dungeon that a particular member of the queued group can't actually do. I don't particularly know how queueing as a group works, but it should be relatively easy to implement a code that asks the right question at the right time (ie, check access availability when generating the list, not when a dungeon is selected).

Still though, if you do turn up a dungeon that someone can't do because they don't have the DLC, can't you just queue again? Or does the queue take so long to pop that this would be untenable? (If it's the fifteen minute timer that's at fault, again, that could be another exception that ZOS could add to it.)

Daemons_Bane

Pretty sure that the groupfinder will fail the group if ANYONE is missing a dlc, or am i wrong on that.?

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

It's nevertheless weird - because it basically penalizes people for having DLCs, what is just silly.

Yeah, ideally the system would be able to tell based on the whole group which dungeons were actually available to them. It shouldn't pick a dungeon that a particular member of the queued group can't actually do. I don't particularly know how queueing as a group works, but it should be relatively easy to implement a code that asks the right question at the right time (ie, check access availability when generating the list, not when a dungeon is selected).

Still though, if you do turn up a dungeon that someone can't do because they don't have the DLC, can't you just queue again? Or does the queue take so long to pop that this would be untenable? (If it's the fifteen minute timer that's at fault, again, that could be another exception that ZOS could add to it.)

That penalty timer tho cause you have to disband, which if it takes 15 mins to queue plus the penalty for leaving....what's the point?

JJBoomer

Wait so, if I don't have Hist (because I don't want it) that means I can't do random anymore?

Daemons_Bane

I think so yeah

jeedrzej

Nope?

jeedrzej

Just finder randomizes dungeon for you from base game patch.

Well alctualy it doesnt. Its broken

idk

The problem is, I have access to all DLCs. I'd rather have to replace the one player who didn't have access to WGT that rarely have it pop.

Acharnor

The dungeon finder should be able to find a dungeon based on what people have access to by looking at the composition of the group. If there is mismatches in terms of what people have access to it should offer one of the basic dungeons. This seems like an easy thing to do.

SolarCat02

Acharnor wrote: »

The dungeon finder should be able to find a dungeon based on what people have access to by looking at the composition of the group. If there is mismatches in terms of what people have access to it should offer one of the basic dungeons. This seems like an easy thing to do.

It used to work that way, until Dark Brotherhood I think broke that one.

AlnilamE

JJBoomer wrote: »

Wait so, if I don't have Hist (because I don't want it) that means I can't do random anymore?

You can.
The problem arises if you do it with a pre-formed group (which is the easiest way to do a random) and the group leader has the DLC and you don't. Then they will get an error message. If you are the only person without a DLC in the group, this can be fixed by passing you lead.

Acharnor wrote: »

The dungeon finder should be able to find a dungeon based on what people have access to by looking at the composition of the group. If there is mismatches in terms of what people have access to it should offer one of the basic dungeons. This seems like an easy thing to do.

Indeed. Look at what dungeons ALL group members have access to and pick from there.

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

Yeah, but now there are 2 DLCs that have dungeons. So if 1 player has IC but not Shadows of the Hist and the other has Shadows of the Hist but not IC, it seems the group finder gets really confused.

Lucius_Aelius

It's unavoidable that people without the DLC's won't be able to play all content, and can't expect to do the dailies every day if it happens to be one of the DLC Dungeons. I've never tried to play with people that didn't have the DLC, but it seems clear to me that it should just not have the DLC Dungeons in the random rotation if you have anyone in the group who doesn't own the relevant DLC (with a check run before the search starts where it only looks for dungeons that everyone has access to). If that's already how it works then great, and I don't see what you're complaining about. If not then it needs to be fixed, but either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

starkerealm

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

...either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

It's not that, the issue is the game penalizing players because another member of their party didn't buy the same content they did.

Lucius_Aelius

starkerealm wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

...either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

It's not that, the issue is the game penalizing players because another member of their party didn't buy the same content they did.

But if you're playing with someone that hasn't bought the content then there's no practical way around it except them buying what they don't have, letting people play content they don't own just because someone in their group does own it would trivialize the purchasing of DLC's, it could just never work. It is what it is, there's no point complaining about something that can't be avoided.

SolarCat02

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

...either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

It's not that, the issue is the game penalizing players because another member of their party didn't buy the same content they did.

But if you're playing with someone that hasn't bought the content then there's no practical way around it except them buying what they don't have, letting people play content they don't own just because someone in their group does own it would trivialize the purchasing of DLC's, it could just never work. It is what it is, there's no point complaining about something that can't be avoided.

The issue is the group finder only looks at the content owned by the group leader, then gives an error and refuses to queue if someone else in the group owns less of the DLC.

It's expected that you won't be able to do White Gold Tower with someone who doesn't own Imperial City. That makes sense.

But if you queue for a random dungeon with that same person with you as group leader, and you own the DLC but they do not, instead of picking randomly from the base game dungeons it gives an error and refuses to queue at all.

Now add in Shadows of the Hist. If you own IC but not Hist, and your friend owns Hist but not IC, the only way you can queue together for a random dungeon is if you find someone who doesn't have ANY DLC, and give that person the crown. Otherwise you just can't do a random, you have to pick a specific one you both have instead, and forego the bonus to doing a random.



Now let's say you want to do a dungeon with four friends. You have IC but not Hist, one friend has Hist but not IC, one has ESO+, and the fourth in your group doesn't have any DLC yet. Well great, you can queue for a random as long as your friend with no DLC has crown.
But wait, he's got the grouping bug where he can't have crown or invite anyone to group with him. So you still can't run a random dungeon because he can't be leader, and your whole group is incompatible. The ESO+ person can run a random with either you or your friend with the other DLC as long as he is not the leader. Meanwhile, the person without DLC cannot participate with anyone who owns any DLC unless he finds someone else without DLC who can be crown.

The whole coding jumble is broken.

Lucius_Aelius

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

...either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

It's not that, the issue is the game penalizing players because another member of their party didn't buy the same content they did.

But if you're playing with someone that hasn't bought the content then there's no practical way around it except them buying what they don't have, letting people play content they don't own just because someone in their group does own it would trivialize the purchasing of DLC's, it could just never work. It is what it is, there's no point complaining about something that can't be avoided.

The issue is the group finder only looks at the content owned by the group leader, then gives an error and refuses to queue if someone else in the group owns less of the DLC.

It's expected that you won't be able to do White Gold Tower with someone who doesn't own Imperial City. That makes sense.

But if you queue for a random dungeon with that same person with you as group leader, and you own the DLC but they do not, instead of picking randomly from the base game dungeons it gives an error and refuses to queue at all.

Now add in Shadows of the Hist. If you own IC but not Hist, and your friend owns Hist but not IC, the only way you can queue together for a random dungeon is if you find someone who doesn't have ANY DLC, and give that person the crown. Otherwise you just can't do a random, you have to pick a specific one you both have instead, and forego the bonus to doing a random.



Now let's say you want to do a dungeon with four friends. You have IC but not Hist, one friend has Hist but not IC, one has ESO+, and the fourth in your group doesn't have any DLC yet. Well great, you can queue for a random as long as your friend with no DLC has crown.
But wait, he's got the grouping bug where he can't have crown or invite anyone to group with him. So you still can't run a random dungeon because he can't be leader, and your whole group is incompatible. The ESO+ person can run a random with either you or your friend with the other DLC as long as he is not the leader. Meanwhile, the person without DLC cannot participate with anyone who owns any DLC unless he finds someone else without DLC who can be crown.

The whole coding jumble is broken.

Well I said in my first post that if it works that way it should be fixed, so I don't understand why you seemed to take issue with my comment (as in suggesting I was somehow off), I've already said as much as you're saying now.

KerinKor

Lysette wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

It's nevertheless weird - because it basically penalizes people for having DLCs, what is just silly.

'Penalise'?

These are RANDOM, meaning there's no expectation that any particular one will be selected so there's no expectation that you'll get a 'DLC' one, so not getting one is a reasonable expectation.

Solution: find a group with with a leader who has DLC?

Cryptical

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

...either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

It's not that, the issue is the game penalizing players because another member of their party didn't buy the same content they did.

But if you're playing with someone that hasn't bought the content then there's no practical way around it except them buying what they don't have, letting people play content they don't own just because someone in their group does own it would trivialize the purchasing of DLC's, it could just never work. It is what it is, there's no point complaining about something that can't be avoided.

The issue is the group finder only looks at the content owned by the group leader, then gives an error and refuses to queue if someone else in the group owns less of the DLC.

It's expected that you won't be able to do White Gold Tower with someone who doesn't own Imperial City. That makes sense.

But if you queue for a random dungeon with that same person with you as group leader, and you own the DLC but they do not, instead of picking randomly from the base game dungeons it gives an error and refuses to queue at all.

Now add in Shadows of the Hist. If you own IC but not Hist, and your friend owns Hist but not IC, the only way you can queue together for a random dungeon is if you find someone who doesn't have ANY DLC, and give that person the crown. Otherwise you just can't do a random, you have to pick a specific one you both have instead, and forego the bonus to doing a random.



Now let's say you want to do a dungeon with four friends. You have IC but not Hist, one friend has Hist but not IC, one has ESO+, and the fourth in your group doesn't have any DLC yet. Well great, you can queue for a random as long as your friend with no DLC has crown.
But wait, he's got the grouping bug where he can't have crown or invite anyone to group with him. So you still can't run a random dungeon because he can't be leader, and your whole group is incompatible. The ESO+ person can run a random with either you or your friend with the other DLC as long as he is not the leader. Meanwhile, the person without DLC cannot participate with anyone who owns any DLC unless he finds someone else without DLC who can be crown.

The whole coding jumble is broken.

Well I said in my first post that if it works that way it should be fixed, so I don't understand why you seemed to take issue with my comment (as in suggesting I was somehow off), I've already said as much as you're saying now.

Lucius, from the start of the thread the desire was to have the group queue choose a random dungeon from the list of dungeons that everyone could play.

You were talking about something different, which is why it looked like the issue needed to be spelled out for you in excruciating detail.

It was /never/ about getting a person into an un-bought dungeon. It was *always* about the irritation created by the group finder not checking which dungeons all 4 people can access before picking a dungeon to queue into.

CombatPrayer

Enodoc wrote: »

Isn't the solution in your OP? You need to create the group before queuing, and then make the group leader the person who has no DLC. You said yourself that if the group leader doesn't have any DLC, you won't be given a DLC dungeon.

That is only a solution if one in the group doesn't have any of the dlc dungeons. But there are people who have one of them and not the same ones. This means that we cannot have the group. So there is still an issue.

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Pretty sure that the groupfinder will fail the group if ANYONE is missing a dlc, or am i wrong on that.?

If the leader who set the queue has it and they don't. If two people have different DLC then you cannot do the group at all. Only the person without the DLC can queue at this point. But again, if two people have different DLC the group will not work becuase there is nobody to set to if you don't have a person who has NO dlc.

CombatPrayer

duplicate

CombatPrayer

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

It's unavoidable that people without the DLC's won't be able to play all content, and can't expect to do the dailies every day if it happens to be one of the DLC Dungeons. I've never tried to play with people that didn't have the DLC, but it seems clear to me that it should just not have the DLC Dungeons in the random rotation if you have anyone in the group who doesn't own the relevant DLC (with a check run before the search starts where it only looks for dungeons that everyone has access to). If that's already how it works then great, and I don't see what you're complaining about. If not then it needs to be fixed, but either way you can't really complain about people not being able to do content they haven't purchased.

I am not complaining. I am saying there is a problem. And it doesn't work that way so it needs to be fixed.