Undaunted skills/passives.

olsborg

This skill tree should be account wide. Instead of increase by gaining undaunted xp it should instead increase by gaining account wide achievments.

jeedrzej

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Dubhliam

Yeah, and Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood should also be account skill lines.
While we're at it, let's add Legerdemain, Vampire, Werewolf and Soul Magic to the mix.

Oh, and Alliance War skills!
How could I forget about Assault and Support skill lines?

#AlliancePointsMatter

olsborg

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

jeedrzej

olsborg wrote: »

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

Still... lazy you!

Just get all possible achiwments in one run

itehache

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

olsborg

itehache wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

To me mmos are pvp, in pvp no fight is similar, sure I can pve too, but doing content over and over again just kills my spirit to play the game, its boring.

Dubhliam

olsborg wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

To me mmos are pvp, in pvp no fight is similar, sure I can pve too, but doing content over and over again just kills my spirit to play the game, its boring.

And how do you think people feel about having to do PvP to unlock Alliance War skills?
It's simple: you either think these skills and passive are worth your time, or you don't.

jeedrzej

Well... for you.

For me pvp is boring
But I needed to got War Horn, Vigor, Caltrops, etc

Just dont complaind and go farming achiws

olsborg

Dubhliam wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

To me mmos are pvp, in pvp no fight is similar, sure I can pve too, but doing content over and over again just kills my spirit to play the game, its boring.

And how do you think people feel about having to do PvP to unlock Alliance War skills?
It's simple: you either think these skills and passive are worth your time, or you don't.

jeedrzej wrote: »

Well... for you.

For me pvp is boring
But I needed to got War Horn, Vigor, Caltrops, etc

Just dont complaind and go farming achiws

The most notable difference, is pvp is easily done solo, undaunted is not.

Shadesofkin

Let me know when I can have Vigor without ever stepping foot into Cyrodil and then you can have your account wide Undaunted.

olsborg

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Let me know when I can have Vigor without ever stepping foot into Cyrodil and then you can have your account wide Undaunted.

It took me one day to get vigor.

AtmaDarkwolf

make one toon, and 7 mules. Problem solved.(Truth is, one can do ANYTHING in the game with a single toon, if you want more toons you just want to try diff races, alliances, etc, so the 'cost' for that should be imo, grind for the rest.)

The above is even more true recently with race changes (As much as they suck your wallet dry...)

Shadesofkin

olsborg wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Let me know when I can have Vigor without ever stepping foot into Cyrodil and then you can have your account wide Undaunted.

It took me one day to get vigor.

I don't have the patience for that, I loathe pvp, I don't want to listen to someone drone on about protecting a keep I just took, I don't care that someone who happens to be Dominion is taking yet another keep, I don't care that someone is farming Emp, and I find no reason to be in the war. Plot and mood direct my reasoning for the adventure.

While you spent your day in Cyrodil here's what I did.

I liberated the Mage from her madness, I freed the Warrior from his delusions, I retrapped the Serpent and I showed the demi prince of Maelstrom the moves that helped him resummon the Baron "Who Moves Like a Smoking Plume". I then harvested silk, ore, and wood to craft powerful items to fight the Dro'Mathra.

you took a keep that you will retake again, and no one even says thank you when you do it.

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

I totally respect that everyone has different tastes, but the usual complaint about undaunted I hear is the same one I have about PvP. I don't want to do again.

cjthibs

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

Shadesofkin

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

wayfarerx

olsborg wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

To me mmos are pvp, in pvp no fight is similar, sure I can pve too, but doing content over and over again just kills my spirit to play the game, its boring.

And how do you think people feel about having to do PvP to unlock Alliance War skills?
It's simple: you either think these skills and passive are worth your time, or you don't.

jeedrzej wrote: »

Well... for you.

For me pvp is boring
But I needed to got War Horn, Vigor, Caltrops, etc

Just dont complaind and go farming achiws

The most notable difference, is pvp is easily done solo, undaunted is not.

You have got to be kidding. Yes, lots of people can PvP solo, and hey even I can do it, but it took me a lot of practice to get to the point where I could do anything besides gank solo PvE questers. By your measure, since many good PvE players can solo most of the normal dungeons and some vet ones, guess that means Undaunted is just fine like it is.

cjthibs

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

Sure. It took me forever to get those because I typically enjoy PvP more. I didn't complain, I just didn't get them as fast as everyone else.

I think people focus too much on the reward, and not enough on getting there. It's a game, if playing the game is not fun to you, and you can only focus on the rewards...then perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

Shadesofkin

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

Sure. It took me forever to get those because I typically enjoy PvP more. I didn't complain, I just didn't get them as fast as everyone else.

I think people focus too much on the reward, and not enough on getting there. It's a game, if playing the game is not fun to you, and you can only focus on the rewards...then perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

I don't disagree with you, my post was made specifically to combat the idea that somehow "pvp took me a day to get what I wanted" was rational to someone like me who considers himself a pure PvE-er.

runagate

Running dungeons over and over, pvping for Alliance War skills, looking for lorebooks, legerdemain and thieves guild quests, and killing daedra and undead for Fighter's Guild are all something I'll - perhaps grudgingly - do for each character.

There's no way I'm doing Dark Brotherhood over and over for each character to get the one decent passive - the one that lowers agro while mounted.

It inspired me to go get a 5th three piece set of Cyrodiil's Ward for my one "assassin" skill line character, tough.

cjthibs

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

Sure. It took me forever to get those because I typically enjoy PvP more. I didn't complain, I just didn't get them as fast as everyone else.

I think people focus too much on the reward, and not enough on getting there. It's a game, if playing the game is not fun to you, and you can only focus on the rewards...then perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

I don't disagree with you, my post was made specifically to combat the idea that somehow "pvp took me a day to get what I wanted" was rational to someone like me who considers himself a pure PvE-er.

I actually just did the 'Vigor in a day' grind yesterday...it took about 4 hours.
Difference is, for me, I actually enjoyed it, but I can relate to your position as well.

Undaunted takes weeks, and that's IF you can line up a group consistently. And honestly, I get tired of doing the same quests over and over again. It's like watching the same movie 3 times a day for a couple of weeks.

If someone is that opposed to PvP, fair enough, but there really is no reason to water down the PvP skills even more.
It used to be quite an accomplishment to unlock Vigor, used to feel like you had done something. Probably like the first time you finish MA or something.

Shadesofkin

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

Sure. It took me forever to get those because I typically enjoy PvP more. I didn't complain, I just didn't get them as fast as everyone else.

I think people focus too much on the reward, and not enough on getting there. It's a game, if playing the game is not fun to you, and you can only focus on the rewards...then perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

I don't disagree with you, my post was made specifically to combat the idea that somehow "pvp took me a day to get what I wanted" was rational to someone like me who considers himself a pure PvE-er.

I actually just did the 'Vigor in a day' grind yesterday...it took about 4 hours.
Difference is, for me, I actually enjoyed it, but I can relate to your position as well.

Undaunted takes weeks, and that's IF you can line up a group consistently. And honestly, I get tired of doing the same quests over and over again. It's like watching the same movie 3 times a day for a couple of weeks.

If someone is that opposed to PvP, fair enough, but there really is no reason to water down the PvP skills even more.
It used to be quite an accomplishment to unlock Vigor, used to feel like you had done something. Probably like the first time you finish MA or something.

And that's the thing, I can get Undaunted 9 in about a day myself (albeit it takes longer than 4 hours). The trick is to do all the dungeons and get their achievements, run all three of the Crag Trials and get their achievements, grab the no death runs and the City of Ash Achievements, etc etc. If you're really into PvE (like I am) it's doable in a day.

Essiaga

olsborg wrote: »

This skill tree should be account wide. Instead of increase by gaining undaunted xp it should instead increase by gaining account wide achievments.

I don't think they should just be account wide, well, maybe once you hit 50 it could be shared account wide. Not before then though. To have Mages, FG, Undaunted, Alliance skills as a Level 10 BWB PVP would be kinda silly.

I can't bring my self to keep doing dungeons on my 6th and 7th toon. I hate them. I just want the passives so I can PVP and Trials more effectively. Honestly I'd probably pay crown for maxed Undaunted passives.

wayfarerx

cjthibs wrote: »

I actually just did the 'Vigor in a day' grind yesterday...it took about 4 hours.

Shadesofkin wrote: »

And that's the thing, I can get Undaunted 9 in about a day myself (albeit it takes longer than 4 hours).

So it appears that PvPers can level alliance ranks quickly but have to work harder for undaunted, and PvEers can level undaunted quickly but have to work harder for alliance ranks. Both skill lines are useful to both player bases.

None of this seems to me like a problem that needs to be fixed.

Shadesofkin

wayfarerx wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

I actually just did the 'Vigor in a day' grind yesterday...it took about 4 hours.

Shadesofkin wrote: »

And that's the thing, I can get Undaunted 9 in about a day myself (albeit it takes longer than 4 hours).

So it appears that PvPers can level alliance ranks quickly but have to work harder for undaunted, and PvEers can level undaunted quickly but have to work harder for alliance ranks. Both skill lines are useful to both player bases.

None of this seems to me like a problem that needs to be fixed.

That was pretty much my feelings on it (which is why I made my initial post that if we're nerfing one, we can nerf the other).

cjthibs

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I just don't like PvP.

I find it exhausting to be there an hour let alone a whole day.

Then don't PvP.
Accept that the skill requires PvP and move on with your life without it.

The same argument can be made about undaunted skills.

Sure. It took me forever to get those because I typically enjoy PvP more. I didn't complain, I just didn't get them as fast as everyone else.

I think people focus too much on the reward, and not enough on getting there. It's a game, if playing the game is not fun to you, and you can only focus on the rewards...then perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

I don't disagree with you, my post was made specifically to combat the idea that somehow "pvp took me a day to get what I wanted" was rational to someone like me who considers himself a pure PvE-er.

I actually just did the 'Vigor in a day' grind yesterday...it took about 4 hours.
Difference is, for me, I actually enjoyed it, but I can relate to your position as well.

Undaunted takes weeks, and that's IF you can line up a group consistently. And honestly, I get tired of doing the same quests over and over again. It's like watching the same movie 3 times a day for a couple of weeks.

If someone is that opposed to PvP, fair enough, but there really is no reason to water down the PvP skills even more.
It used to be quite an accomplishment to unlock Vigor, used to feel like you had done something. Probably like the first time you finish MA or something.

And that's the thing, I can get Undaunted 9 in about a day myself (albeit it takes longer than 4 hours). The trick is to do all the dungeons and get their achievements, run all three of the Crag Trials and get their achievements, grab the no death runs and the City of Ash Achievements, etc etc. If you're really into PvE (like I am) it's doable in a day.

Wow. That's actually pretty impressive.
To me the dungeon mechanics all sort of seem the same...some variation of stay out of red, interrupt at this point, dps check/race, heal check/race. (I find DPS/Heal races to be ridiculously stupid. The idea that wearing this thing makes me stranger than you is just ...lazy game design in my opinion.)

The thrill is sort of gone I guess. Unlike PvP, where (outside the frustration of certain zerg tactics) you've got to keep adjusting your strategy and actually have situational awareness. I guess it feels more real to me.

I honestly wish there were fewer bonuses and buffs and stat-changing things all-around.
The game is about what you're wearing more often than what you can do.

Essiaga

PVE campaign.

They could create a story arc for PVERs to come in and run a Cyro adventure zone to unlock there alliance skills, get there sky shards, dolmans. delves, takes some keeps, kills some keep bosses ... this campaign could also feature at PVE only IC, which might have to give significantly less TV and trophies.

You would gain no PVP rank but you would also have no negative impact on the population in PVP campaigns. I think it would be a win win.

Lots of work. People have been asking for years ... never going to happen.

C4rt3r_H4ll

I'd be ok with Dye colors colors being account wide. Show me someone who has 2 master anglers.

wayfarerx

C4rt3r_H4ll wrote: »

I'd be ok with Dye colors colors being account wide. Show me someone who has 2 master anglers.

They already are account wide.

Shadesofkin

Essiaga wrote: »

PVE campaign.

They could create a story arc for PVERs to come in and run a Cyro adventure zone to unlock there alliance skills, get there sky shards, dolmans. delves, takes some keeps, kills some keep bosses ... this campaign could also feature at PVE only IC, which might have to give significantly less TV and trophies.

You would gain no PVP rank but you would also have no negative impact on the population in PVP campaigns. I think it would be a win win.

Lots of work. People have been asking for years ... never going to happen.

I know i've personally asked for a PvE campaign for a long time.

I loved adventuring in Cyrodil...when I could count on buff servers having no other factions.

itehache

olsborg wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

jeedrzej wrote: »

You are just lazy

Game is anogh easy

Its about not having to repeat content over and over again.

That's what MMOs are anyway

To me mmos are pvp, in pvp no fight is similar, sure I can pve too, but doing content over and over again just kills my spirit to play the game, its boring.

Uuuf even though the boss mechanics are the same a pve fight can change so much depending on who you run the dungeon with hahah!!! But yeah I understand what you mean

I still have not tried pvp in this game, I'll start once I finish all pve questing and stories