ZOS, why not just be honest with us?

Mojmir

Rhazmuz wrote: »

You should make a sticky thread with all reported/ confirmed bugs and a line about the status regarding a fix. Then you can update it as progress is made, bugs are fixed and new ones arise.

Surely you must already have this imformation/overview internally so copy that to text and make such a thread.

your asking too much!!

kevlarto_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

@Shadowstep2003 thank you for expressing your frustrations and concerns in such a constructive manner; that's appreciated.

We're always looking for ways to improve communication with our players, and do try to be as forthcoming and transparent as possible. Sometimes the status update for an issue is "We're still working on it, and have X and Y teams dedicated to solving this as soon as possible" and that doesn't change until we find the problem and are testing a fix. And we understand that can get frustrating to hear "We're working on it, thanks for your patience" for an extended period of time. When we can provide more details about what's being done, we do.

In regards to the console tech issues that were introduced when Update 10 launched, fixing them has been a studio-wide priority. We do have a number of fixes and improvements coming in Update 11 (on the 16th) that should resolve the majority of these issues.

All that said, there is always room for improvement, and we're interested in hearing what our players would like to see. We can't promise we'll be able to do everything suggested and asked for, but we will talk about what is feasible and possibly bounce some ideas off of you in return. (And if you all are really interested in learning more about everything your friendly neighborhood ESO Community Managers do day-to-day, maybe we'll chat about it a little in a future ESO Live! )

Jessica, I think that would be a great life at ZOS segment, featuring you and Gina and everything you do, I am sure we would be amazed at how many hats you all wear. Thanks

Panth141

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

As others have said, a pinned 'Known Issues & Fix Status' thread would be great.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Panth141 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

As others have said, a pinned 'Known Issues & Fix Status' thread would be great.

They already have this. It is on their in house forums under the LOL subsection.

JKorr

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

As others have said, a pinned 'Known Issues & Fix Status' thread would be great.

They already have this. It is on their in house forums under the LOL subsection.

And the self-appointed "nothing positive when interacting with the community managers" thread crapper appears.

Do you really scan every ZOS post to find something to snark, complain, or just plain *** about? Divines forbid there be one thread without accusatory "ZOS is lazy/incompetent/money-grubbing *** who ignore players and laugh at the problems" comment in it.

There are many issues they need to fix. They have their own set of priorities. People like you are one huge reason they don't post details about what they are working on. Nothing they say will ever manage to be enough to satisfy whatever standard you personally have regarding their interaction with the players. If they aren't working to your standards, aren't fixing things fast enough, or whatever your personal grudge is, why are you still here? If this game is so unsatisfactory and lacking, there must be a game out there that meets your idea of perfection. Why aren't you involved in that one, whatever it might be?

PhaeroX

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

@Shadowstep2003 thank you for expressing your frustrations and concerns in such a constructive manner; that's appreciated.

We're always looking for ways to improve communication with our players, and do try to be as forthcoming and transparent as possible. Sometimes the status update for an issue is "We're still working on it, and have X and Y teams dedicated to solving this as soon as possible" and that doesn't change until we find the problem and are testing a fix. And we understand that can get frustrating to hear "We're working on it, thanks for your patience" for an extended period of time. When we can provide more details about what's being done, we do.

In regards to the console tech issues that were introduced when Update 10 launched, fixing them has been a studio-wide priority. We do have a number of fixes and improvements coming in Update 11 (on the 16th) that should resolve the majority of these issues.

All that said, there is always room for improvement, and we're interested in hearing what our players would like to see. We can't promise we'll be able to do everything suggested and asked for, but we will talk about what is feasible and possibly bounce some ideas off of you in return. (And if you all are really interested in learning more about everything your friendly neighborhood ESO Community Managers do day-to-day, maybe we'll chat about it a little in a future ESO Live! )

You broke a perfectly working Group Finder. Repair it please.

Moloch1514

Can we have a comment regarding the Breton Hero costume?

I_killed_Vivec

No doubt this will be seen as "fanboi", but...

1. Some of the details people are asking for will be commercially sensitive. In particular ZoS don't want to be caught out sending a "We know the game is rubbish but we are working on it" message.

2. Any details they do give will be immediately criticized: either a) "My complaint is more important" or b) "You say you're working on it but when will it be fixed?!".

As they can't win either way, you can see why they think it will cause less fuss to say nothing at all.

Vythri

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

@Shadowstep2003 thank you for expressing your frustrations and concerns in such a constructive manner; that's appreciated.

We're always looking for ways to improve communication with our players, and do try to be as forthcoming and transparent as possible. Sometimes the status update for an issue is "We're still working on it, and have X and Y teams dedicated to solving this as soon as possible" and that doesn't change until we find the problem and are testing a fix. And we understand that can get frustrating to hear "We're working on it, thanks for your patience" for an extended period of time. When we can provide more details about what's being done, we do.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Why not give periodic status updates, even if there is nothing to report. Anything to let people know that issues just aren't being forgotten/neglected.

This extends to the PTS as well. FAR to often one of you guys will make a feedback thread, and then never post in that thread ever again. Why even bother making the thread in the first place? Engage the community, and respond to our ideas and opinions. Present your own ideas and opinions. Have an open dialogue with us. We all can make this a better game TOGETHER, but it will never happen by not engaging the community.

MornaBaine

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

No doubt this will be seen as "fanboi", but...

1. Some of the details people are asking for will be commercially sensitive. In particular ZoS don't want to be caught out sending a "We know the game is rubbish but we are working on it" message.

2. Any details they do give will be immediately criticized: either a) "My complaint is more important" or b) "You say you're working on it but when will it be fixed?!".

As they can't win either way, you can see why they think it will cause less fuss to say nothing at all.

For many issues I feel that's probably true and I do feel for those tasked with being the "public face" of ZOS. But there are many areas where transparency can only help them.

For instance, the huge barbershop thread where we were literally told to please let them know what we wanted. And then got exactly none of it. Not the implementation nor the products (hairstyles, jewelry and other "adornments" and makeup, tats and scars), not ANY of it. If they can simply explain WHY they made the choices they did it would go a long way towards stemming community outrage. Because I'm pretty sure there ARE reasons for doing it the way they did and choosing/making the hairstyles they did over the types of hairstyles that were endlessly requested and making it entirely outside the game/cash shop only instead of the "immersive" and "roleplay" system they themselves had originally talked it up as. Letting us know even vaguely what their plans are for the future of the Style Parlor would also probably make people feel better after they failed to even make the few new hairstyles there are available.

In the 30+ page thread that showcases all the badly distorted armor and costumes and which they acknowledged were "not intended" and that they would be working to fix it... so far the only one we KNOW they have addressed is the Trinimac light robe. They have never explained what is causing the distortion though since they were able to fix at least ONE item it seems as if they surely know WHAT the problem is now. We'd like to understand what happened. It might explain why no other pieces have been fixed at this point months later. It might help us to be patient with the piles of armor many of us can't use because it looks so bad.

In the more recent thread asking for an explanation of their release schedule of costumes and pets, an understanding of their "system" would lay to rest a lot of speculation and make people feel a lot better if they understood WHEN and HOW they would be seeing the things they really want.

These are not answers that should be shrouded in mystery. These are the kinds of things that should be entirely transparent.

I_killed_Vivec

MornaBaine wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

No doubt this will be seen as "fanboi", but...

1. Some of the details people are asking for will be commercially sensitive. In particular ZoS don't want to be caught out sending a "We know the game is rubbish but we are working on it" message.

2. Any details they do give will be immediately criticized: either a) "My complaint is more important" or b) "You say you're working on it but when will it be fixed?!".

As they can't win either way, you can see why they think it will cause less fuss to say nothing at all.

For many issues I feel that's probably true and I do feel for those tasked with being the "public face" of ZOS. But there are many areas where transparency can only help them.

For instance, the huge barbershop thread where we were literally told to please let them know what we wanted. And then got exactly none of it. Not the implementation nor the products (hairstyles, jewelry and other "adornments" and makeup, tats and scars), not ANY of it. If they can simply explain WHY they made the choices they did it would go a long way towards stemming community outrage. Because I'm pretty sure there ARE reasons for doing it the way they did and choosing/making the hairstyles they did over the types of hairstyles that were endlessly requested and making it entirely outside the game/cash shop only instead of the "immersive" and "roleplay" system they themselves had originally talked it up as. Letting us know even vaguely what their plans are for the future of the Style Parlor would also probably make people feel better after they failed to even make the few new hairstyles there are available.

In the 30+ page thread that showcases all the badly distorted armor and costumes and which they acknowledged were "not intended" and that they would be working to fix it... so far the only one we KNOW they have addressed is the Trinimac light robe. They have never explained what is causing the distortion though since they were able to fix at least ONE item it seems as if they surely know WHAT the problem is now. We'd like to understand what happened. It might explain why no other pieces have been fixed at this point months later. It might help us to be patient with the piles of armor many of us can't use because it looks so bad.

In the more recent thread asking for an explanation of their release schedule of costumes and pets, an understanding of their "system" would lay to rest a lot of speculation and make people feel a lot better if they understood WHEN and HOW they would be seeing the things they really want.

These are not answers that should be shrouded in mystery. These are the kinds of things that should be entirely transparent.

These are precisely the "won't discuss these because they make us look bad" considerations that ZoS have.

The answer to the "barbershop"? They make money of it if it's in the Crown Store, no recovery of investment if it's available for in-game gold. But they can't say that because it translates to "We want your cash" and makes them look bad. (Though I have some sympathy with that attitude, why should they create something for us for free?)

Armour that looks cheap... because it was done on the cheap? They aren't going to say "Sorry, we're ripping you off".

Anything that puts the game in a negative light. We might appreciate a simple "Sorry, we got that wrong, this our plan to correct it" but they can't afford to say it because it will seen as an admission by the manufacturers that the game is an expensive rip off.

nimander99

It's pretty simple, idea's from game dev's become oath's sworn in the blood of their unborn children to the community at large.

If every time I said "Man, I really like that, that's a great idea and would like to start working on it" became a promise I had to deliver on 100% or else toxicity ensues... Well, be honest, you'd be very careful about what you said too.

UltimaJoe777

Ok so I have a suggestion.

The greatest pet peeve of the forum community (as indicated in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280267/yes-i-am-going-to-keep-hurling-abuse-at-the-breton-costume/ ), is people feel threads are not acknowledged if they are not posted in. I can relate to that, but I also understand posting "We are working on it, please be patient" or something relative is indeed what many do not want to hear. Therefore, I propose the forums have a means of a dev marking a thread as "acknowledged" so the community knows the topic at hand has been received by Zenimax.

clayandaudrey_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

As others have said, a pinned 'Known Issues & Fix Status' thread would be great.

They already have this. It is on their in house forums under the LOL subsection.

And the self-appointed "nothing positive when interacting with the community managers" thread crapper appears.

Do you really scan every ZOS post to find something to snark, complain, or just plain *** about? Divines forbid there be one thread without accusatory "ZOS is lazy/incompetent/money-grubbing *** who ignore players and laugh at the problems" comment in it.

There are many issues they need to fix. They have their own set of priorities. People like you are one huge reason they don't post details about what they are working on. Nothing they say will ever manage to be enough to satisfy whatever standard you personally have regarding their interaction with the players. If they aren't working to your standards, aren't fixing things fast enough, or whatever your personal grudge is, why are you still here? If this game is so unsatisfactory and lacking, there must be a game out there that meets your idea of perfection. Why aren't you involved in that one, whatever it might be?

Yep

Lara1701

Current business models show that personally engaging with your customers is the best way to keep them involved, paying, and happy.

No-brainer: A lot more of the staff need to periodically engage on the forums. It doesn't take that long. It's not a big deal. It has to be honest and meaningful too.

This isn't some big secret. Everyone knows this stuff. Yes, the community can get passionate and heated, but instead of taking things personally, be happy that your fans and customers care so much about the product... and ignore the ones who don't. Most of us want ESO to succeed and don't mind paying for it. So why not have a dialogue with us?

JKorr

Lara1701 wrote: »

Current business models show that personally engaging with your customers is the best way to keep them involved, paying, and happy.

No-brainer: A lot more of the staff need to periodically engage on the forums. It doesn't take that long. It's not a big deal. It has to be honest and meaningful too.

This isn't some big secret. Everyone knows this stuff. Yes, the community can get passionate and heated, but instead of taking things personally, be happy that your fans and customers care so much about the product... and ignore the ones who don't. Most of us want ESO to succeed and don't mind paying for it. So why not have a dialogue with us?

On bethesda's forums, during the lead up to Oblivion, some of the devs did attempt to have a dialogue and discussion with posters. I'm fairly sure at least two cases ended up being referred to law enforcement and their legal department because of threats of physical violence to them and their families. They do take it personally when the focus isn't the game, but themselves/their families. There are people who can't draw a line between the dev's "work" and the devs. Notice the person who posted agreement they intentionally hunt out positive threads to post negative statements and disrupt discussions.

I don't blame them for saying as little as possible, and avoiding contact. Even when they do try to interact with us, people like that poster earlier come in and make the interaction ever so pleasant. /sarcasm

Olyboi

Imagine creating a revolutionary space craft with 10000000000 moving parts that embarks on a long and important 10 year journey. Now imagine repairing, tweaking and improving said space craft in flight and constantly being asked daily for an update by 100 people?

Oh and you have to add new and exciting developments to it to deal with the changing unknown territory it is travelling through at the same time.

What would you do?

I would copy and paste 'I am working on it' until I had something concrete to share that would appease the masses not the individual.

I ❤️ ZOS

C4rt3r_H4ll

You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going, because you might not get there.

clayandaudrey_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

Lara1701 wrote: »

Current business models show that personally engaging with your customers is the best way to keep them involved, paying, and happy.

No-brainer: A lot more of the staff need to periodically engage on the forums. It doesn't take that long. It's not a big deal. It has to be honest and meaningful too.

This isn't some big secret. Everyone knows this stuff. Yes, the community can get passionate and heated, but instead of taking things personally, be happy that your fans and customers care so much about the product... and ignore the ones who don't. Most of us want ESO to succeed and don't mind paying for it. So why not have a dialogue with us?

On bethesda's forums, during the lead up to Oblivion, some of the devs did attempt to have a dialogue and discussion with posters. I'm fairly sure at least two cases ended up being referred to law enforcement and their legal department because of threats of physical violence to them and their families. They do take it personally when the focus isn't the game, but themselves/their families. There are people who can't draw a line between the dev's "work" and the devs. Notice the person who posted agreement they intentionally hunt out positive threads to post negative statements and disrupt discussions.

I don't blame them for saying as little as possible, and avoiding contact. Even when they do try to interact with us, people like that poster earlier come in and make the interaction ever so pleasant. /sarcasm

Maybe if you people did a search you would see that ZOS used to post threads of known issues and then stopped back in 2014. There may have been a couple in 2015. The point is, like most everything else they have stopped.

The lack of communication from them is very bad. Check the top of this forum about the cheating. Known issues since beta that have never been addressed.

My opinion is my own and if I want to give it to ZOS then I will. Threads on the forum are not the reason for them ignoring things and I am insulted that you insinuate I have threatened someone. Your posts in here are way more aggressive than anything I have posted. You may want to check yourself before trying to passive aggressive bully someone into being quiet because it doesn't fit your ideals.

And no, I do not expect them to start doing the right things. They use to do them and then quit about the time this game went b2p. This is the way it is and way I expect it to stay.

Tavore1138

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

It seems sometimes that there are plenty of people of good intent at ZOS but as a company you often fail to get ahead of things when it comes to communications, it seems like there is no strategy just reactions that come when community noise gets loud enough. That hurts you.

It hurt you on cheating and still is because while you may have nothing new to say a regular update is always better than people feeling ignored or worse that things are being hushed up.

It hurts you on maintenance or logon server downtimes because even that little "We're still here giving a damn" message is better than the void.

It hurts when sometimes my best bet is asking German guildiex on the offchance @ZOS_KaiSchober has dropped something useful to them that they can translate.

You need a strategy for this stuff, we should be able to go to the news or announcements forum in cases like this and be confident that we will have some idea of what has happened and, if there is an eta, what it is and if not when you will next update us.

It should, as others have suggested, hold a oinned thread of known issues - just so we know that they are on someone's list to fix some time.

And it should have a full list of known exploits and clear guidance on which ones are banned.

It should be the first place we go when stuff goes wtong and there should never be a genune problem thread here where we don't have an official post on that forum to link people to before people start hrowing their toys out of the pram.

It would require effort, but if it starts with the aim to communicate early and often then it won't go far wrong and in the long run the community will appreciate it and the game would benefit...

IMO anyway...