Toon size

Lysette

Well, characters in games, which use a 3rd person camera have to be always oversized in height - this is because the camera perspective makes this necessary. In Second Life for example most characters are around 2m for females (on heals) and 2.3m for male characters. The whole world has to be oversize as well - a 100 sqm area - 10x10m - is just good for 2 couples to dance on - whle in RL that is the size of a good roomy flat with several rooms. This is just weird due to the camera perspective.

Thetwano

Well, there are as well weight relations in the table - we could now investigate which races are more chubby than others, but this is a bit futile, don't you think?[/quote]

Not really, it makes for good discussion, and might get the devs attention(I hope at least). Options in the toon creation is what attracts peeps to a game like this, and giving more options(whether you would use them or not to stay "historically accurate") means that others can enjoy the game just as much, with a toon they fully enjoy to spend hours/days/months/years looking at.

Lysette

The question is how many are not satisfied with the options which are already in the game - my personal opinion is just that I cannot make females so, that they do not look skinny - that is a big problem with some outfits, but not with others. I tried to make mine so that they do not look anorexic - because this makes them look even taller and sick - a healthy lady is not that skinny. On the other side, a healthy lady is as well not fat - and so it is tricky to get a slender appearance, which is not skinny and does not stretch the character optically.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

The question is how many are not satisfied with the options which are already in the game - my personal opinion is just that I cannot make females so, that they do not look skinny - that is a big problem with some outfits, but not with others. I tried to make mine so that they do not look anorexic - because this makes them look even taller and sick - a healthy lady is not that skinny.

Well with this game hitting Japan, and being an MMO in general, it's going to be losing/gaining peeps daily/monthly. So whether the peeps that have been playing since day one want this, or not, means little. The option to further improve/create your toon to everyone's own standards, is something that, as a community, we should embrace. Is it really going to affect your game play, because you see a 5' tall Nord run by? If that does... it might be time to step away from the game, cause I think you're in a little too deep lol.

Reverb

Thetwano wrote: »

Is it really going to affect your game play, because you see a 5' tall Nord run by? If that does... it might be time to step away from the game, cause I think you're in a little too deep lol.

I could say the same to you, for letting impact your game so much to not see a 5' Nord running by.

Lysette

I'm not really for that people can choose too much - simply because then we will get that what is common in asian games - little girls in too short skirts and stay ups, fighting with oversized weapons, which are far too heavy for them to swing and they cry like little children - I do not want this in ESO, to me this is disgusting, even asian women cry like this even if they are adults - but I personally find this disgusting, it sounds like a child. And especially I do not want an anime or hentai like appearance in ESO - this should be a proper TES game.

Vulsahdaal

Thetwano wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

I'm sorry, but as far as I know, the nord and altmer height sliders have higher ceilings than the other races, and inversely the bosmer can get even shorter than the rest already. Isn't this already a thing?

That's not really the issue i'm talking about. I'm talking about height in general from the shortest to the tallest. Wood elf is shortest(and the only "short" race), where as all the other races, "seem" way taller than the shortest wood elf setting, even Bretons at the shortest setting, are much taller than wood elfs.

Well not sure about much taller, but they are definitely taller. Each race seems to have its own height range standards (though some are very close to one another). When I make a new character (regardless of race) I use this chart to try to judge how tall/short he will be compared to other races (the colored lines at the top seem to be a pretty accurate indication).



For closer view:

i.imgur.com/33utEAg.jpg

But as far as an Altmer being as short as shortest Bosmer, this would not look right to me.. They have their own height standards different from Bosmer and it might be possible there would be an Altmer or two out there who fall below the standards but they would most likely be considered midgets (in contrast to Bosmer who consider one of their own that was the same height to be normal)..

Thetwano

Reverb wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Is it really going to affect your game play, because you see a 5' tall Nord run by? If that does... it might be time to step away from the game, cause I think you're in a little too deep lol.

I could say the same to you, for letting impact your game so much to not see a 5' Nord running by.

lol it actually does.. that's the point of my topic.. I want more options in height. I don't like that "tall" is the only option outside of wood elfs. So YES it does affect my game play, because I dont personally like the aesthetics of the toons. Unless I'm playing a wood elf of course. I don't mind seeing freakishly tall toons run by, I just don't want to be forced to be one of them.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

I'm not really for that people can choose too much - simply because then we will get that what is common in asian games - little girls in too short skirts and stay ups, fighting with oversized weapons, which are far too heavy for them to swing and they cry like little children - I do not want this in ESO, to me this is disgusting, even asian women cry like this even if they are adults - but I personally find this disgusting, it sounds like a child. And especially I do not want an anime or hentai like appearance in ESO - this should be a proper TES game.

Having more options in the height area doesn't open the door to make the game full of lil girl looking toons with huge weapons... it opens the door to peeps being able to have slightly shorter toons if they choose to.

Lysette

I can understand that and mine are all not that tall, even the tall races are near the average of the height slider, some less tall some a bit more than average. My characters are pretty much nowhere taller than the average player around me.

Thetwano

You guys are getting a little to heavy into this being some Lore/World/History breaking thing. Your ideas of what the Lore/history of the Elder Scrolls is, i'm sure, is a lot different from that of the actual creators. Unless Bethesda comes out and says, "there is no such thing as a small Breton, Redgaurd, or Nord. They have never existed in the History of the Elder Scrolls," then why get so wrapped up in this? This is an MMO whether you wanna believe it or not, and in MMOs, there is customization, to satisfy a multitude of different tastes. This being Elder Scrolls doesn't change that.

Lysette

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand that and mine are all not that tall, even the tall races are near the average of the height slider, some less tall some a bit more than average. My characters are pretty much nowhere taller than the average player around me.

And I'm guessing you're happy with how your toons turned out? Which at the end of the day, is the important thing. We play this game, and get completely invested in it. So we ALL should want to have a toon that can allow us to be 100% invested.

Vulsahdaal

Thetwano wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Is it really going to affect your game play, because you see a 5' tall Nord run by? If that does... it might be time to step away from the game, cause I think you're in a little too deep lol.

I could say the same to you, for letting impact your game so much to not see a 5' Nord running by.

lol it actually does.. that's the point of my topic.. I want more options in height. I don't like that "tall" is the only option outside of wood elfs. So YES it does affect my game play, because I dont personally like the aesthetics of the toons. Unless I'm playing a wood elf of course. I don't mind seeing freakishly tall toons run by, I just don't want to be forced to be one of them.

But "tall' isnt the only option, you can make a short 'whatever' race just by moving the slider all the way over on character creation. For example, when I created my Imperial NB I had slider in the middle. He is in no way considered tall, in comparison to general population (in fact almost everyone is taller than him, I suspect most people opt for the tallest setting on creation) and the only ones I seen shorter than him are Bosmers, but if he was as short as them it would look very strange I would think..

Lysette

Thetwano wrote: »

You guys are getting a little to heavy into this being some Lore/World/History breaking thing. Your ideas of what the Lore/history of the Elder Scrolls is, i'm sure, is a lot different from that of the actual creators. Unless Bethesda comes out and says, "there is no such thing as a small Breton, Redgaurd, or Nord. They have never existed in the History of the Elder Scrolls," then why get so wrapped up in this? This is an MMO whether you wanna believe it or not, and in MMOs, there is customization, to satisfy a multitude of different tastes. This being Elder Scrolls doesn't change that.

It does - and ESO is based on Oblivion basically - and it has clear average sizes for any race in relation to each other, I have shown you the table. This is an RPG and the races of Tamriel have their size ranges and if you like it or not, it is a TES game.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

That's really up to the player behind the avatar. But.. a wood elf, at its shortest, does not in any way come even close to resembling a child. Each race at the lowest age setting, looks to be in the mid 20s. Height would have zero impact on making them look like kids. Wood elfs don't, and no other race would, if smaller heights were added.

Thetwano

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Is it really going to affect your game play, because you see a 5' tall Nord run by? If that does... it might be time to step away from the game, cause I think you're in a little too deep lol.

I could say the same to you, for letting impact your game so much to not see a 5' Nord running by.

lol it actually does.. that's the point of my topic.. I want more options in height. I don't like that "tall" is the only option outside of wood elfs. So YES it does affect my game play, because I dont personally like the aesthetics of the toons. Unless I'm playing a wood elf of course. I don't mind seeing freakishly tall toons run by, I just don't want to be forced to be one of them.

But "tall' isnt the only option, you can make a short 'whatever' race just by moving the slider all the way over on character creation. For example, when I created my Imperial NB I had slider in the middle. He is in no way considered tall, in comparison to general population (in fact almost everyone is taller than him, I suspect most people opt for the tallest setting on creation) and the only ones I seen shorter than him are Bosmers, but if he was as short as them it would look very strange I would think..

Any race at their "shortest" is still way taller than the wood elfs. So in an effect, they are taller. Having the option to go from super tall, to somewhat less tall, isn't a good option.

Lysette

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

That's really up to the player behind the avatar. But.. a wood elf, at its shortest, does not in any way come even close to resembling a child. Each race at the lowest age setting, looks to be in the mid 20s. Height would have zero impact on making them look like kids. Wood elfs don't, and no other race would, if smaller heights were added.

not completely true - if you make the avatar very small, choose smooth face and give your female character boyish hips, no real waist line and small shoulders, she would look very girlish. Those outfits with skirts are basically glued to the mesh of the character - a shorter character with smaller legs lets the skirt appear much shorter than on a taller character.

And no it is not up to any avatar if he does child-ERP - this should not be allowed, because it raises desires, which are not suitable for our children in real life and can be dangerous to them - this is simply something which cannot be tolerated.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

You guys are getting a little to heavy into this being some Lore/World/History breaking thing. Your ideas of what the Lore/history of the Elder Scrolls is, i'm sure, is a lot different from that of the actual creators. Unless Bethesda comes out and says, "there is no such thing as a small Breton, Redgaurd, or Nord. They have never existed in the History of the Elder Scrolls," then why get so wrapped up in this? This is an MMO whether you wanna believe it or not, and in MMOs, there is customization, to satisfy a multitude of different tastes. This being Elder Scrolls doesn't change that.

It does - and ESO is based on Oblivion basically - and it has clear average sizes for any race in relation to each other, I have shown you the table. This is an RPG and the races of Tamriel have their size ranges and if you like it or not, it is a TES game.

Lets look at real life. Are all Asians one size? Or do they vary from tall, medium, short? and what about little people? genetic mutations is a natural part of life, and could 100% be a thing in this fictional world. Bretons could not have only been tall. there would have been 100s of thousands if not millions in the population of their entire existence, would have been considered short or well below average height. Not sure why you guys want to defend races being super tall, so hardcore like.. makes little to no sense. This is a fantasy world, yet you guys are trying so hard to take the "fantasy" out of it. Giving players more options can only help, not hurt, and its sad that you guys are so uninterested in seeing something as simple as a height change, which doesn't affect you at all, be put into the game. Very odd...

Recremen

I paid for an appearance change token just so I could max out my Khajiit's height slider and make him closer to what a Cathay/Cathay_Raht should be. Still very short, should be more Nord-sized. When I first made him (during early access, never forget) I wanted him to not be towering over everyone else so I took the height slider down 2 ticks from max. Little did I know that almost every other race is default way taller. I would fully embrace this change (and shell out for another appearance change token).

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

That's really up to the player behind the avatar. But.. a wood elf, at its shortest, does not in any way come even close to resembling a child. Each race at the lowest age setting, looks to be in the mid 20s. Height would have zero impact on making them look like kids. Wood elfs don't, and no other race would, if smaller heights were added.

not completely true - if you make the avatar very small, choose smooth face and give your female character boyish hips, no real waist line and small shoulders, she would look very girlish. Those outfits with skirts are basically glued to the mesh of the character - a shorter character with smaller legs lets the skirt appear much shorter than on a taller character.

And no it is not up to any avatar if he does child-ERP - this should not be allowed, because it raises desires, which are not suitable for our children in real life and can be dangerous to them - this is simply something which cannot be tolerated.

Ya.. you're taking it a bit too far.. cant really take this convo seriously anymore. You're stretching for something that isn't there.

Lysette

I want that to be a TES game - you have seen the table of size differences and that they are not significant at all. The races of Tamriel do not have huge differences - they are already more than they should be as it is - I have shown you and even calculated, what the differences actually are between the shortest and the tallest race in average.

If you let people more choice this would create huge differences which are weird - because these exceptions would not be one among thousands in a city, but it would be one among a few dozens - and this distorts the proportions of these anomalies a whole lot. if you give people that choice, you will find these extremes in the same city - not really nice to look at,

Lysette

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

That's really up to the player behind the avatar. But.. a wood elf, at its shortest, does not in any way come even close to resembling a child. Each race at the lowest age setting, looks to be in the mid 20s. Height would have zero impact on making them look like kids. Wood elfs don't, and no other race would, if smaller heights were added.

not completely true - if you make the avatar very small, choose smooth face and give your female character boyish hips, no real waist line and small shoulders, she would look very girlish. Those outfits with skirts are basically glued to the mesh of the character - a shorter character with smaller legs lets the skirt appear much shorter than on a taller character.

And no it is not up to any avatar if he does child-ERP - this should not be allowed, because it raises desires, which are not suitable for our children in real life and can be dangerous to them - this is simply something which cannot be tolerated.

Ya.. you're taking it a bit too far.. cant really take this convo seriously anymore. You're stretching for something that isn't there.

Ok, then I just end this now - I doubt ZOS will change anything, but you can continue wanting of course.

Thetwano

Um.. sure..

This is an MMO, you're going to have to come to terms with that. This isn't a single player Elder Scrolls game. You really need to stop comparing, cause there is no comparison. Also, the time lines are no where even in the same realm as one another. Genetic Mutations are a thing, not all races are super tall, and that's it.

*Bethesda/Zenimax: I would ask that you please take a look into the character customization options, and please toss around the idea of giving players the OPTION to make each race shorter than the current heights available. Not EVERYONE will use this option, but there is some people, like myself, that would love to see this be added to the game. It would further my enjoyment of the character I'm spending hours at a time traversing your world with. Not to mention, it would make me more inclined to make more toons, and experience more of the world you created. So please think about entertaining this idea. Thanks!*

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And then there is another problem with small characters - and that is child-ERP - it was in second life such a problem that after a lot of protests from the european player side this was banned from the game and most estate owners reject child avatars or avatars which are too small from entering their property. This is something to take into account as well.

That's really up to the player behind the avatar. But.. a wood elf, at its shortest, does not in any way come even close to resembling a child. Each race at the lowest age setting, looks to be in the mid 20s. Height would have zero impact on making them look like kids. Wood elfs don't, and no other race would, if smaller heights were added.

not completely true - if you make the avatar very small, choose smooth face and give your female character boyish hips, no real waist line and small shoulders, she would look very girlish. Those outfits with skirts are basically glued to the mesh of the character - a shorter character with smaller legs lets the skirt appear much shorter than on a taller character.

And no it is not up to any avatar if he does child-ERP - this should not be allowed, because it raises desires, which are not suitable for our children in real life and can be dangerous to them - this is simply something which cannot be tolerated.

Ya.. you're taking it a bit too far.. cant really take this convo seriously anymore. You're stretching for something that isn't there.

Ok, then I just end this now - I doubt ZOS will change anything, but you can continue wanting of course.

LOL that's the point of the forums, to express our opinions of the game. What we like, what we don't. If they want to look into my suggestion, good for them, it can only help this game, not hurt it, no matter what you Lore "experts" want to believe.

Lysette

Thetwano wrote: »

Um.. sure..

This is an MMO, you're going to have to come to terms with that. This isn't a single player Elder Scrolls game. You really need to stop comparing, cause there is no comparison. Also, the time lines are no where even in the same realm as one another. Genetic Mutations are a thing, not all races are super tall, and that's it.

*Bethesda/Zenimax: I would ask that you please take a look into the character customization options, and please toss around the idea of giving players the OPTION to make each race shorter than the current heights available. Not EVERYONE will use this option, but there is some people, like myself, that would love to see this be added to the game. It would further my enjoyment of the character I'm spending hours at a time traversing your world with. Not to mention, it would make me more inclined to make more toons, and experience more of the world you created. So please think about entertaining this idea. Thanks!*

Let me just quote Matt Firor "Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG." - guess he was not successful in educating you about the matter.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Um.. sure..

This is an MMO, you're going to have to come to terms with that. This isn't a single player Elder Scrolls game. You really need to stop comparing, cause there is no comparison. Also, the time lines are no where even in the same realm as one another. Genetic Mutations are a thing, not all races are super tall, and that's it.

*Bethesda/Zenimax: I would ask that you please take a look into the character customization options, and please toss around the idea of giving players the OPTION to make each race shorter than the current heights available. Not EVERYONE will use this option, but there is some people, like myself, that would love to see this be added to the game. It would further my enjoyment of the character I'm spending hours at a time traversing your world with. Not to mention, it would make me more inclined to make more toons, and experience more of the world you created. So please think about entertaining this idea. Thanks!*

Let me just quote Matt Firor "Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG." - guess he was not successful in educating you about the matter.

Now look up how much the game has changed from day one, till now >.o. its more traditional now, than ever before. So I guess you're misinformed, and outdated.

Lysette

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Um.. sure..

This is an MMO, you're going to have to come to terms with that. This isn't a single player Elder Scrolls game. You really need to stop comparing, cause there is no comparison. Also, the time lines are no where even in the same realm as one another. Genetic Mutations are a thing, not all races are super tall, and that's it.

*Bethesda/Zenimax: I would ask that you please take a look into the character customization options, and please toss around the idea of giving players the OPTION to make each race shorter than the current heights available. Not EVERYONE will use this option, but there is some people, like myself, that would love to see this be added to the game. It would further my enjoyment of the character I'm spending hours at a time traversing your world with. Not to mention, it would make me more inclined to make more toons, and experience more of the world you created. So please think about entertaining this idea. Thanks!*

Let me just quote Matt Firor "Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG." - guess he was not successful in educating you about the matter.

Now look up how much the game has changed from day one, till now >.o. its more traditional now, than ever before. So I guess you're misinformed, and outdated.

Useless to talk to you, you are turning things your way, regardless of facts - this is what Matt Firor said this year and he is saying this in pretty much every interview again and again - what do you think One Tamriel is for?- It will be more of an open world, an RPG and it basically by-passes the Alliance war outside of Cyrrodil totally - does this look to you to go towards more MMO PvP, or does it look more like becoming what it should have been in the first place?- An online Elder Scrolls RPG.

Thetwano

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thetwano wrote: »

Um.. sure..

This is an MMO, you're going to have to come to terms with that. This isn't a single player Elder Scrolls game. You really need to stop comparing, cause there is no comparison. Also, the time lines are no where even in the same realm as one another. Genetic Mutations are a thing, not all races are super tall, and that's it.

*Bethesda/Zenimax: I would ask that you please take a look into the character customization options, and please toss around the idea of giving players the OPTION to make each race shorter than the current heights available. Not EVERYONE will use this option, but there is some people, like myself, that would love to see this be added to the game. It would further my enjoyment of the character I'm spending hours at a time traversing your world with. Not to mention, it would make me more inclined to make more toons, and experience more of the world you created. So please think about entertaining this idea. Thanks!*

Let me just quote Matt Firor "Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG." - guess he was not successful in educating you about the matter.

Now look up how much the game has changed from day one, till now >.o. its more traditional now, than ever before. So I guess you're misinformed, and outdated.

Useless to talk to you, you are turning things your way, regardless of facts - this is what Matt Firor said this year and he is saying this in pretty much every interview again and again - what do you think One Tamriel is for?- It will be more of an open world, an RPG and it basically by-passes the Alliance war outside of Cyrrodil totally - does this look to you to go towards more MMO PvP, or does it look more like becoming what it should have been in the first place?- An online Elder Scrolls RPG.

LOL um.. think you forgot to actually read about this stuff before typing it,or should I say, before you copy and pasted it. One Tamriel is about opening the game up to be entirely playable no matter what level you are. THAT is what it means. It has nothing to do with being a unique, Lore enriched experience that is unlike any other MMO. its making this game accessible to more peeps! So yes! this game is being a very typical MMO! Adding character height changes is just a natural fit in this ONE TAMRIEL! Thank you! Good night!!!!!