Bombard Broken (PVE)?

Soleya

I know there was a nerf to Bombard which I'm guessing had to do with PVP. Don't understand why personally, it seems like no different than a DK spamming talons. Though I'm not really a PVP player so I can't say. I used Bombard in PVE though.

The skill now only occasionally roots some mobs. Most seem immune to it. Last night in Normal Darkshade it would only occasionally root a couple of the kwarma, most of them were still able to move. It worked better on the dwemer spiders, but still not rooting all of them. Also once they were rooted and started moving they had 4 seconds of CC immunity.

I used to use this skill in solo PVE or occasionally when tanking since NB has no good crowd control (Fear is not good CC when tanking). Now the skill is worthless.

Even worse, to switch the morph I would have to redo all my skill morphs.

juhasman

Maybe there was caltroops or any other AoE ability that provides slow on the ground. I think bombard now cant immobilize snared targets , so if healer using ritual i think You cant immobilize mobs inside.

Vythri

juhasman wrote: »

Maybe there was caltroops or any other AoE ability that provides slow on the ground. I think bombard now cant immobilize snared targets , so if healer using ritual i think You cant immobilize mobs inside.

I wonder if every other soft CC works the same way now?

Probably not, but they should.

Soleya

juhasman wrote: »

Maybe there was caltroops or any other AoE ability that provides slow on the ground. I think bombard now cant immobilize snared targets , so if healer using ritual i think You cant immobilize mobs inside.

I'm the only one in the group with caltrops unlocked and I wasn't using it last night.

Our healer was running one of the morphs of cleansing ritual, but neither morph does any type of root or snare.

So you can't root an enemy who is snared? That seems lame.

Vythri

Bombard has a root (immobilize for 2 sec) and a snare (40% speed reduction). So one cast of Bombard negates the root of all the rest until the snare wears off. The question is, does the snare keep reapplying with each cast? Because if it does, then the root is absolutely pointless.

Autolycus

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

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juhasman wrote: »

Maybe there was caltroops or any other AoE ability that provides slow on the ground. I think bombard now cant immobilize snared targets , so if healer using ritual i think You cant immobilize mobs inside.

I'm the only one in the group with caltrops unlocked and I wasn't using it last night.

Our healer was running one of the morphs of cleansing ritual, but neither morph does any type of root or snare.

So you can't root an enemy who is snared? That seems lame.

This is your most likely culprit:

Sacred Ground (Passive)
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.

Toc de Malsvi

The latest change to Bombard really hurts it, with the amount of snares in PVP and PVE there is little reason to use Bombard any more. The slight increase in damage from Acid Spray is now a more rewarding morph.

I understand the issue they were trying to address with Bombard spamming in PVP versus zergs, however this is a very poor way of addressing it that not only nerfs Bombard but buffs zergs.

You shouldn't be able to perma root a group without significant risk, however this virtually ensures Bombard will hardly ever root and thus be dropped from optional skills.

Vythri

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The latest change to Bombard really hurts it, with the amount of snares in PVP and PVE there is little reason to use Bombard any more. The slight increase in damage from Acid Spray is now a more rewarding morph.

I understand the issue they were trying to address with Bombard spamming in PVP versus zergs, however this is a very poor way of addressing it that not only nerfs Bombard but buffs zergs.

You shouldn't be able to perma root a group without significant risk, however this virtually ensures Bombard will hardly ever root and thus be dropped from optional skills.

Yeah, I'm not even putting it on my bar anymore. They really need to rework some of these Bow skills...

- Scatter Shot is 10m which is a joke.
- Bombard doesn't root anymore (pretty much).
- Poison Injection has its execute on the DoT allowing melee users to pre-execute a target, but makes it so Bow users can never get the execute because using it as your spammable move means the dot never ticks.
- Snipe has a ridiculous flight time and sound alert before it hits.
- Endless Hail was fire damage. Why didn't they change it to poison and keep the DoT?

This doesn't even get into the fact that there is a 100% hard counter to any Bow build with any skill that reflects projectiles.

Wolfchild07

Here we have more problems with ZOS not making the changes to skills to ONLY affect PVP.

Soleya

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Here we have more problems with ZOS not making the changes to skills to ONLY affect PVP.

Balancing this game with the massive number of skills, classes, etc is pretty much impossible. Trying to do that with PVP and PVE as well, is even worse.

Would at least make it more manageable if they made skills work differently in PVP and PVE so the 2 can be tuned separately.

Anti_Virus

This is the final nail in the coffin for bow builds( PVP specifically)

-Poison injection like @Vythri said is useless for archers and great for melee builds

- Volley is useless in PVP and in PVE it was only good for group dungeons with a Maelstrom bow exclusively.

- scatter shot and morphs will continue to be lack luster as long at they have a 10m when gap closers can be spammed at 2x the range

- the bombard nerf pretty much makes it a useless morph. It had great synergy with arrow barrage if you perma root mobs in pve in the AoE but now its pointless DKs however can still perma root with no penalties with talons.

- snipe is good in PVE and terrible in PVP its long travel time coupled with the audio que that telegraphs its location makes it lackluster even in stealth( I didn't know that there was an audio que if sniping from stealth)

I feel bad for those that wanted to be archers, Zos disagrees with having a ranger class in this game. There is literally no reason to use a bow now other than poison injection dot and major expedition( which can be substituted by pots and other skills). Bombard provided some utility for your group in keep defense slowing and rooting players.

I've already adapted to the melee biased meta no point in defying the Meta.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

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Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Here we have more problems with ZOS not making the changes to skills to ONLY affect PVP.

Balancing this game with the massive number of skills, classes, etc is pretty much impossible. Trying to do that with PVP and PVE as well, is even worse.

Would at least make it more manageable if they made skills work differently in PVP and PVE so the 2 can be tuned separately.

Yeah, because perma rooting large groups of mobs was good gameplay. This change makes PvE more balanced, and runs the skill for PvP

Francescolg

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, because perma rooting large groups of mobs was good gameplay. This change makes PvE more balanced, and runs the skill for PvP

BS, this was a basic and core mechanic of this game from DAY one. Second, not all mobs get rooted in PvE, especially bosses are immune to soft/hard CC. To claim that you can root all mobs is simply wrong and that's not the ESO I've been playing the last two years.. Maybe you are new?

Thraben

Anti_Virus wrote: »

This is the final nail in the coffin for bow builds( PVP specifically)

-Poison injection like @Vythri said is useless for archers and great for melee builds

- Volley is useless in PVP and in PVE it was only good for group dungeons with a Maelstrom bow exclusively.

- scatter shot and morphs will continue to be lack luster as long at they have a 10m when gap closers can be spammed at 2x the range

- the bombard nerf pretty much makes it a useless morph. It had great synergy with arrow barrage if you perma root mobs in pve in the AoE but now its pointless DKs however can still perma root with no penalties with talons.

- snipe is good in PVE and terrible in PVP its long travel time coupled with the audio que that telegraphs its location makes it lackluster even in stealth( I didn't know that there was an audio que if sniping from stealth)

I feel bad for those that wanted to be archers, Zos disagrees with having a ranger class in this game. There is literally no reason to use a bow now other than poison injection dot and major expedition( which can be substituted by pots and other skills). Bombard provided some utility for your group in keep defense slowing and rooting players.

I've already adapted to the melee biased meta no point in defying the Meta.

The Bombard "nerf" has already failed. Yesterday in PvP it felt worse than before. Bombard spamming is still a thing. At least in combination with a zerg- induced lag.

Francescolg

@Slayer9292_ESO
Yes, unfortunately this skill was nurfed into the ground and ZOS demonstrated again, how they make such nurfs... And they didn't nurf Encase, which basically is the same mechanic as Bombard (very slightly less range, no damage). They didn't change DK's Dark Talons, which has also been a very controversial skill. Generally, you can still combine root + snare and the core mechanic remained untouched, they just nurfed Bombard and now nobody is using it, for whatever reason!? (maybe s.o. was drunken?)

Quote from the patch notes:

Bow

Bombard (Arrow Spray morph): This morph no longer applies its immobilize effect to targets that are already snared.

Bombard was never the skill of first choice for bow builds and never has been. This nurf was unnecessary!
Second, Bombard was the last very effective and best weapon against "balls" of players, zergs, organized teams, who stampede the map 24/7. This skill was unacceptable to them, that is why lately ZOS must have had more "tickets corcerning the matter". But, as I said, it is (or was) their very basic core mechanic of the game, namely the differentiation of soft and hard CC (including the skill bombard)

My bet: Basically, they changed this skill because of an US-guild leader, who feels very important and who thinks of himself as a representative of ALL ESO players. I'm sure he asked his fellows to write tickets.
Why he hasn't complained about Bombard the last two years and why ZOS didn't touch the skill for the last two years, is another question which I would like to pose ZOS..

Second, if they nurf Bombard, this nurf has to be applied to all root-mechanics. THIS would be THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT but not for ZOS.. If they nurf Bombard, they have to change the way how immobilize and slow effects neutralize each other: SLOW > ROOT (like they did with Bombard). This would be a major change to ESO and it is a proof, how imperfectly and how poorly this nurf was done. Nothing else I can say after 2 years of core-soft CC/hard CC mechanics. (it doesn't matter if ranged or not, if AE or not!)

Vythri

Nothing will ever be done about this though because far too many people don't main a bow, so not a lot of people will care to make an uproar. It's always great being in the minority and never having your voice heard.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Francescolg wrote: »

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cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, because perma rooting large groups of mobs was good gameplay. This change makes PvE more balanced, and runs the skill for PvP

BS, this was a basic and core mechanic of this game from DAY one. Second, not all mobs get rooted in PvE, especially bosses are immune to soft/hard CC. To claim that you can root all mobs is simply wrong and that's not the ESO I've been playing the last two years.. Maybe you are new?

Nowhere did I say all mobs could be rooted. Nice try at setting up a straw man argument there

Bombard made perma rooting large groups of mobs much too easy. They've removed it as a cheese tactic. Exactly the same way that at one point in this game it was possible to perma stun mobs and easily mow them down. ZOS changed mobs so they get CC immunity do stop that cheese tactic.

Maybe you are to new to remember that...

Vythri

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Bombard made perma rooting large groups of mobs much too easy. They've removed it as a cheese tactic. Exactly the same way that at one point in this game it was possible to perma stun mobs and easily mow them down. ZOS changed mobs so they get CC immunity do stop that cheese tactic.

Maybe you are to new to remember that...

Except now, with the way the skill is set up, you can only root mobs/players 1 single time. That's because it slows as well as roots so, the root will never proc after the first cast. Ever. Isn't there a happy medium instead of nerfing the skill this hard?