Balance shuffle

flubber77

One thing i dont understand, why all this nerf this nerf that topic? like shuffle, all can use them. malubeth? yes it was op for most players but its easy to counter and ofc all could use them. for magicka and stamina players there will always be someone who scream for nerf, but why not find the solutions to the problem and ask for better stuff if u lack something instead of this nerf?

i do have multible characters both magicka and stamina and i have some big issues with a few types of players for each but i dont scream NERF. i do try to find they way to stop the problem. its always a way to counter them.

so thnx all out there who kills me, i do learn from it, slowly but i do learn

UltimaJoe777

Reykice wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Nerf it to 6 seconds like shields

This... i mean every defensive buff should be 6 seconds now, why are they only targeting one class?

They aren't. The only reason it seems so is because Stamina only has ONE Damage Shield, barring Barrier, and it scales off Health... And of course Nightblades have no shield at all and must use either that, Annulment, or Barrier as direct shield abilities.

Xeven

The more people beating on you, the more shuffle mitigates. The more people beating on you, the more dodge roll mitigates. The more people beating on you, the more block mitigates.

This is not true for shields, they do not scale like stamina defenses do. You can mitigate ~10k unresisted dps if you do nothing but stand there and spam your shield.

Just sayin'. Carry on.

Leogon

susmitds wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

As long as they don't touch double take.

Exactly, go nerf Shuffle, I hardly care, touch Double Take, I will find you and kill you.

UltimaJoe777

Xeven wrote: »

The more people beating on you, the more shuffle mitigates. The more people beating on you, the more dodge roll mitigates. The more people beating on you, the more block mitigates.

This is not true for shields, they do not scale like stamina defenses do. You can mitigate ~10k unresisted dps if you do nothing but stand there and spam your shield.

Just sayin'. Carry on.

Blocking is actually less mitigating than Damage Shields because you aren't nullifying all damage by Blocking but still using Stamina to do it. Dodge Roll also uses Stamina of course, and more than Blocking. Major Evasion is luck-based, so if you're unlucky and your opponent with it active is lucky you'll most likely have hell dealing with it lol

I get the comparisons but there really isn't anything here that begs for a nerf. We should all just be thankful there isn't a base auto-dodge mechanic that can proc WITHOUT using Major Evasion...

FloppyTouch

So bringing it down to wat dragon wings does is not balance you ppl can't get ur minds around balance just want to keep playing ur op Stam builds its not even a hard nerf I'm asking just 4 misses then re apply the skill instead of the 20s god mod u have now

FloppyTouch

How would you feel if dk wing lasted 4s and stop all projectiles and had a miss chance on ur physical hits too?

dodgehopper_ESO

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Magic DK lost evade bc it was considered "OP" but all Stam builds have the same thing with shuffle(and better then what dk use to have)and it's just to op.

What im suggesting is a nerf to the skill to make it more balance. What I would like to see is the same treatment dk wings got make shuffle only dodge 4 attacks then has to be re-casted.

Having an ability that last as long as shuffle does and dodge as many attacks as it does make Stam build way to strong.

Templar lost Blinding Flashes as well.

leepalmer95

So many salty magicka players in this thread.

Their likely the FOTM bomb blades and magicka sorc from last patch.

The only thing shuffle needs is for it to be not able to dodge ult's.

If you nerf shuffle then shields need to able to be crit.

FullBlownBeast

I play mainly stamina builds and I can say without a doubt, shuffle is too *** much. Plain and simple. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say this skill is fine.

UltimaJoe777

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

I play mainly stamina builds and I can say without a doubt, shuffle is too *** much. Plain and simple. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say this skill is fine.

As a generally unlucky gamer that RNG absolutely hates I get used to how it treats me. If I kept missing someone a lot because of Shuffle I would curse my luck, not Shuffle.

FullBlownBeast

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

I play mainly stamina builds and I can say without a doubt, shuffle is too *** much. Plain and simple. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say this skill is fine.

As a generally unlucky gamer that RNG absolutely hates I get used to how it treats me. If I kept missing someone a lot because of Shuffle I would curse my luck, not Shuffle.

You go in every thread and type the same nonsense. Do you understand completely dodging 20% of all skills is not acceptable? Does not matter if it was deterministic in that after every 4 hits you automatically dodge a skill (5th hit, 20%), to avoid RNG streaks, it would still be too strong. RNG has nothing to do with anything here.

UltimaJoe777

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

I play mainly stamina builds and I can say without a doubt, shuffle is too *** much. Plain and simple. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say this skill is fine.

As a generally unlucky gamer that RNG absolutely hates I get used to how it treats me. If I kept missing someone a lot because of Shuffle I would curse my luck, not Shuffle.

You go in every thread and type the same nonsense. Do you understand completely dodging 20% of all skills is not acceptable? Does not matter if it was deterministic in that after every 4 hits you automatically dodge a skill (5th hit, 20%), to avoid RNG streaks, it would still be too strong. RNG has nothing to do with anything here.

Now you're just hating.

Some find it unacceptable, but not everyone does. If it was widespread unacceptable and the procs not governed by RNG it'd be a different story. When it has a CHANCE to proc, it has everything to do with RNG.

Forestd16b14_ESO

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

FloppyTouch

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

UltimaJoe777

FloppyTouch wrote: »

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

There is so much error in these posts I don't even know where to begin... I'll let them speak for themselves though, considering I am not familiar with this issue with Cinder Storm you speak of.

Marktoneth3

If you gonna neft this skill

then ZOS should nerf Jesus beam to dodgeable

FloppyTouch

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

There is so much error in these posts I don't even know where to begin... I'll let them speak for themselves though, considering I am not familiar with this issue with Cinder Storm you speak of.

No errors at all pls elaborate.

UltimaJoe777

FloppyTouch wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

There is so much error in these posts I don't even know where to begin... I'll let them speak for themselves though, considering I am not familiar with this issue with Cinder Storm you speak of.

No errors at all pls elaborate.

I'll give you 3. You can gather the rest from there lol

1. Unchained works for ALL Stamina skills. Why should Shuffle be special? Furthermore no guarantee EVERYONE has Unchained in their build, or the CPs for it.
2. If a Magicka build has a proper means of sustaining their Magicka, or does not have to renew their Shield often, your point is irrelevant.
3. The vast amount of grammatical errors in your post regarding Cinder Storm.

RouDeR

In general 20% dodge chance is 20% to ignore 100% of the damage , the reversed mechanic is
100% of the time to ignore 20% of the damage.
SO THE *** THIS IS 20% DMG MITIGATION.
As a Magica player i can say that all of my projectile spells dont hit the shuffled target 70% of the time ,
NO I *** YOU NOT , the *** combination of 40 k stamina, 20% major evasion and *** dodgeroll spam makes you deal lowshit damage with your project spells or ranged attacks,...

Suggestion :
1 : rework the major evasion buff to apply only 15% dodge chance or 20% for melee attacks and 10% for ranged attacks

2: add 5 piece set that can counter this *** , like - When an enemy dodges your attack/spell it is cursed to take X amount of damage , with 1 second CD.

UltimaJoe777

RouDeR wrote: »

In general 20% dodge chance is 20% to ignore 100% of the damage , the reversed mechanic is
100% of the time to ignore 20% of the damage.
SO THE *** THIS IS 20% DMG MITIGATION.
As a Magica player i can say that all of my projectile spells dont hit the shuffled target 70% of the time ,
NO I *** YOU NOT , the *** combination of 40 k stamina, 20% major evasion and *** dodgeroll spam makes you deal lowshit damage with your project spells or ranged attacks,...

Suggestion :
1 : rework the major evasion buff to apply only 15% dodge chance or 20% for melee attacks and 10% for ranged attacks

2: add 5 piece set that can counter this *** , like - When an enemy dodges your attack/spell it is cursed to take X amount of damage , with 1 second CD.

You also have to consider the fact Stamina DPS builds NEED Evasion for defense. If Evasion is easily trumped then that will be a huge nerf to both Stamina DPS builds AND Medium Armor. Sucks you have such rotten luck with Major Evasion though.

Pepper8Jack

The issue is more with how major evasion operates than with the 20% dodge chance it provides. In actuality, instead of dodging 20% of all incoming attacks against the player like most people would expect, major evasion provides a 20% chance to proc what I'll call a "dodge event." The dodge event, which lasts for a very short window of time, causes the player to dodge any attack cast against the player during that window.

Basically, the skill creates a 20% chance to dodge all attacks for the next 0.2 to 0.5 seconds or more (affected by lag, human error, etc., so hard to determine actual window length).

This is why you see players dodging 5 or more attacks in a row, giving the appearance of the % chance being higher than 20%.

If shuffle operated how you'd think when reading the skill, the 20% chance would likely be decent, but nothing ridiculous.

UltimaJoe777

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

The issue is more with how major evasion operates than with the 20% dodge chance it provides. In actuality, instead of dodging 20% of all incoming attacks against the player like most people would expect, major evasion provides a 20% chance to proc what I'll call a "dodge event." The dodge event, which lasts for a very short window of time, causes the player to dodge any attack cast against the player during that window.

Basically, the skill creates a 20% chance to dodge all attacks for the next 0.2 to 0.5 seconds or more (affected by lag, human error, etc., so hard to determine actual window length).

This is why you see players dodging 5 or more attacks in a row, giving the appearance of the % chance being higher than 20%.

If shuffle operated how you'd think when reading the skill, the 20% chance would likely be decent, but nothing ridiculous.

I would like to propose it be called "Matrixing" if I may

FloppyTouch

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

There is so much error in these posts I don't even know where to begin... I'll let them speak for themselves though, considering I am not familiar with this issue with Cinder Storm you speak of.

No errors at all pls elaborate.

I'll give you 3. You can gather the rest from there lol

1. Unchained works for ALL Stamina skills. Why should Shuffle be special? Furthermore no guarantee EVERYONE has Unchained in their build, or the CPs for it.
2. If a Magicka build has a proper means of sustaining their Magicka, or does not have to renew their Shield often, your point is irrelevant.
3. The vast amount of grammatical errors in your post regarding Cinder Storm.

1.shuffle last 20s even if u have crap Stam recovery it's still free bc guess what u only have to reply ever 20s
2.sheild last 6s and u have to spam to stay alive no free cast btw no magic recovery can cover that cost
3.good job attacking my grammar and proving nothing

So I'll ask u again @UltimaJoe777 don't dodge my question, if cinder storm was consider way to op and nerfed then why is shuffle okay? Feel free to attack my grammar again bc u have no valid points

UltimaJoe777

FloppyTouch wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

My point is why was evade for cinderstorm so op and was nerf like crazy but shuffle is okay?! Shuffle is 20s up to 33s buff that moves with the character and can be a free cast when u break free for cc.

Cinderstorm was a small circle u had to stand in as soon as u left it the evade was gone and boy did Stam builds cry and cry about it. Now shuffle does the same thing but better and @UltimaJoe777 you think that's balance? It needs a nerf I stand with my 4 dodge then have to recast this will eat away at stam resources the same way wings and shields eat away at magic resources.

That my friends is called balance you can't argue with that.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

it has a 20% chance to work while damage shields have a 100% chance to work .

Point is ?

Shields cost a lot of magic shuffle is a free cast that last way to long if u use it after u break free

There is so much error in these posts I don't even know where to begin... I'll let them speak for themselves though, considering I am not familiar with this issue with Cinder Storm you speak of.

No errors at all pls elaborate.

I'll give you 3. You can gather the rest from there lol

1. Unchained works for ALL Stamina skills. Why should Shuffle be special? Furthermore no guarantee EVERYONE has Unchained in their build, or the CPs for it.
2. If a Magicka build has a proper means of sustaining their Magicka, or does not have to renew their Shield often, your point is irrelevant.
3. The vast amount of grammatical errors in your post regarding Cinder Storm.

1.shuffle last 20s even if u have crap Stam recovery it's still free bc guess what u only have to reply ever 20s
2.sheild last 6s and u have to spam to stay alive no free cast btw no magic recovery can cover that cost
3.good job attacking my grammar and proving nothing

So I'll ask u again @UltimaJoe777 don't dodge my question, if cinder storm was consider way to op and nerfed then why is shuffle okay? Feel free to attack my grammar again bc u have no valid points

1. Shuffle is not the only skill people use with their builds. Unless they use nothing but basic attacks they may find themselves at a time when Shuffle expires that they cannot immediately recast it.
2. IF they need to spam it to stay alive then odds are they are doomed from the beginning considering they are no doubt getting jumped. Furthermore, Dodge Rolling and Blocking also drain Stamina. Shuffle is not the be all end all defense for Stamina users. You are comparing the wrong mechanic to Damage Shields here.
3. Not attacking, just pointing out that your grammar errors made your post difficult to comprehend.

As for the rest, first of all Cinder Storm is a completely different topic than the one at hand. Second of all I do not know what this nerf is you speak of, as I said in my previous post.

dwtdwtdwt

Every player of ever class has a chance to dodge attacks. What Minor and Major Evasion does is increase that dodge chance by 5% and 20%, respectively. It does not guarantee an attack to be dodged. And every class of every type has access to Evasion/Shuffle/Elude, even magicka DK's.

I actually think that the crafted set, Spectre's Eye, would work well in a magicka DK build, and should be considered and utilized more in game. But, that's just what I believe.

Father_X_Zombie

If my shields last 6s, then so should shuffle

UltimaJoe777

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

If my shields last 6s, then so should shuffle

How is that fair though? Shields work 100% of the time, and Major Evasion 20% of the time. 6s for that is useless and no one would run it.

FloppyTouch

@UltimaJoe777 cinder storm was nerfed a long time ago