I am watching 11 dps-ish specced players beat on 4 tanks.

KenaPKK

3 templar tanks, one DK tank. All wearing Malubeth and 3 wearing Reactive.

The 11 dps dudes are more or less focusing the tanks one by one.

They aren't doing any damage....

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert What has this game come to? Is this your idea of fun, competitive PvP?

TARAFRAKA

Nope. Nope. Nope, I'm noping right back out of this.

Iyas

Were the tanks able to kill one of the DDs? If not, whats the problem?

Sanct16

Did you consider that those 11 guys are maybe just pugs and therefore ***? I would bet a lot of money that my group wouldnt struggle killing 4 malu/reactive ppl with 11 people.

Malubeth/Reactive is tanky combo but only really useful in Xv1 so while I wouldn't be sad to see it go I don't really care much about some dudes tanking some zerg. Noone who actually plays somewhat competitive would ever run Malubeth/Reactive...

Ankael07

It seems this exploiting issue will never end.Yesterday we had mundus stone bug, gap closers etc. today Malubeth and who knows what will be exploited tomorrow?

maxjapank

Seems the issue is with Reactive.

Iyas

Ankael07 wrote: »

It seems this exploiting issue will never end.Yesterday we had mundus stone bug, gap closers etc. today Malubeth and who knows what will be exploited tomorrow?

Malubeth is nothing you can trigger to exploit. You wear it and something is off. This time the fault is total on zos site. Not like double mundus exploit etc

Laggus

Iyas wrote: »

Were the tanks able to kill one of the DDs? If not, whats the problem?

I think you missed the OP's point.

covenant_merchant

Reactive procs on talons, templar rituals and pretty much anything in between. Issue's with Malubeth too: all heals while the beam is up aren't affected by Battle Spirit. Combine the two, and you've got yourself an unkillable cancerous pug.

Lokey0024

Im not sure if people just dont run caltrops or any other cc/snare on my faction or just think 3 people spamming light attack will do the trick.

zyk

Iyas wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

It seems this exploiting issue will never end.Yesterday we had mundus stone bug, gap closers etc. today Malubeth and who knows what will be exploited tomorrow?

Malubeth is nothing you can trigger to exploit. You wear it and something is off. This time the fault is total on zos site. Not like double mundus exploit etc

Of course ZOS is ultimately to blame for all faults in the game, but the players who knowingly use sets broken to this degree don't come across as looking for fair, good fights.

Outer_Rim

KenaPKK wrote: »

3 templar tanks, one DK tank. All wearing Malubeth and 3 wearing Reactive.

The 11 dps dudes are more or less focusing the tanks one by one.

They aren't doing any damage....

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert What has this game come to? Is this your idea of fun, competitive PvP?

You keep making these pointless threads to drive your agenda to what the game should be. Drop it already. Yeah let's go ahead and keep going with burst meta, and how dare people that spec for tanking ACTUALLY be tanky. Hopefully you join the CU crowd when it comes out.

KenaPKK

Iyas wrote: »

Were the tanks able to kill one of the DDs? If not, whats the problem?

Yes. They ended up wiping the group.

Sanct16

KenaPKK wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Were the tanks able to kill one of the DDs? If not, whats the problem?

Yes. They ended up wiping the group.

Well then those 11 were potatoes that deserved to be killed.

KenaPKK

Sanct16 wrote: »

Did you consider that those 11 guys are maybe just pugs and therefore ***? I would bet a lot of money that my group wouldnt struggle killing 4 malu/reactive ppl with 11 people.

Malubeth/Reactive is tanky combo but only really useful in Xv1 so while I wouldn't be sad to see it go I don't really care much about some dudes tanking some zerg. Noone who actually plays somewhat competitive would ever run Malubeth/Reactive...

Well of course no good group of 11 would struggle with 4 tanks. The 11 were pugs, but these tanks were pugs too. I know a couple of the dpsy people. They aren't great but they aren't potatoes. The tanks were bad though. Just blocking timidly when pressured, using ults haphazardly without ccs or coordination, not really healing each other much, and failing to keep buffs up. It was pugs v pugs. Not saying it's what the game should be balanced around, but it's certainly sad.

Do you like the current state of Reactive and Malubeth?

Outer_Rim wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

3 templar tanks, one DK tank. All wearing Malubeth and 3 wearing Reactive.

The 11 dps dudes are more or less focusing the tanks one by one.

They aren't doing any damage....

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert What has this game come to? Is this your idea of fun, competitive PvP?

You keep making these pointless threads to drive your agenda to what the game should be. Drop it already. Yeah let's go ahead and keep going with burst meta, and how dare people that spec for tanking ACTUALLY be tanky. Hopefully you join the CU crowd when it comes out.

Thank you for the input, but that isn't what I said.

Lord_Hev

Ok, this tank qq is starting to get on my nerves. And this is coming from someone who mains a sorc that runs max damage and an overkill magic pool. Of all the things to complain about. Of all the cheese Stam builds able to 3 shot people with such a mind-numbing rotation with an easy to use build that doesn't even require innovative theory-craft or thought. People are going to run into a tank they cannot kill and its the ****ing end of the world for them.


If 4 tanks remained unkillable against 11 DPS, then that means that the game is actually balanced. Why is it that 4 tanks should -not- be able to hold their ground indefinitely? If not, then what the **** is the point of tanking? Or playing wars of attrition? Would you prefer those 4 players to just be DPS with one healer so the 11 DPS can just zerg them down? Cry me a river of more complaints to complain about. There are people willing to sacrifice damage so they can troll people and actually survive open-field. What a ****ing pain in the ass. The nerve of them to make you cringe at the sight of not being gunned down against 11 people. How are they?!








Oh look! I found a picture of one of those "11 DPS."

KenaPKK

@Lord_Hev So you want to keep the Malubeth bug, then? I'd argue that Reactive and Malubeth are more mind-numbing to use than stam builds.

Malubeth's bug needs to be fixed, and honestly, Reactive shouldn't trigger unless you're hard cced (in my opinion, although Reactive is the least of our worries right now).

Also the tanks didn't sacrifice dps. They did plenty of damage.

But notice that I didn't complain about that.

KenaPKK

kasa-obake wrote: »

Reactive procs on talons, templar rituals and pretty much anything in between. Issue's with Malubeth too: all heals while the beam is up aren't affected by Battle Spirit. Combine the two, and you've got yourself an unkillable cancerous pug.

Have you tested this? Is this how it works?

I ask because screenshots have shown heals multiple powers of 10 greater than the tooltip values state they should be. We're not exactly certain what the bug is.

blabafat

Tanking in pvp is a problem right now because it is skill-less. You can be out of stam and cced on the ground, but as long as you have malubeth and reactive, you will be fine. Resource management was already irrelevant for the most part. Running out of resources yet still living because of sets is only adding to that

olsborg

People using malubeth should be ashamed

covenant_merchant

Well, the heals not being affected by Battle Spirit is part of the issue. Tried vigor values on my stamplar, and while the beam held in Cyro, it healed me for over 7k initial hit at least (without the major mending passive active. As in - I didn't drop any runes or rituals beforehand). Tried it on stamina sorc - same thing. On magicka templar - same. The healing done while the beam holds isn't halved. It even holds for the Rally ticks: without malubeth, it ticks for 1.2k on my stamsorc with 30 points in quick recovery. With the Malubeth beam, the ticks range from 2.2 to 2.9k. So that's 2.2k healing per second without actually pressing any button... Gj ZOS. But hey, at least they fixed the fact that the beam itself double-dipped xDDD

Currently running Malubeth + Reactive + fassala on my magicka templar and spreading cancer for that reason.

Lord_Hev

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Lord_Hev So you want to keep the Malubeth bug, then? I'd argue that Reactive and Malubeth are more mind-numbing to use than stam builds.

Malubeth's bug needs to be fixed, and honestly, Reactive shouldn't trigger unless you're hard cced (in my opinion, although Reactive is the least of our worries right now).

Also the tanks didn't sacrifice dps. They did plenty of damage.

But notice that I didn't complain about that.

Tank builds are very, very annoying. I hate fighting them too. But I'm still going to defend that play-style. I'll agree that the over-abundance of them is not a healthy thing, but then again neither is a massive herd of stamplar rerolls which is what I feel like i'm fighting whenever I encounter DC, which coincidentally have the ideal race for stamplar/Stam DK without explorers pack.


I'm picky of this because it reminds me of the whole DK issue pre 1.6. Potatoes didn't know how to deal with them and DK ended up getting massively nerfed on top of the balanced 1.5 TTK plummeting in 1.6 where 3 shot builds ran rampant.


We need the stupid annoying reactive fassalla tanks as a check to all the bursty stam builds running amok. As for Malubeth itself, that is its own issue that needs addressing. I don't agree with it being categorized with fassalla and reactive, when a Stamplar can run it with Hundings rage and -really- abuse it. Tanks running Malubeth is not abuse imo. DPS builds taking advantage of the irregular heal spikes on the other-hand, are.

covenant_merchant

Lord_Hev wrote: »

As for Malubeth itself, that is its own issue that needs addressing. I don't agree with it being categorized with fassalla and reactive, when a Stamplar can run it with Hundings rage and -really- abuse it. Tanks running Malubeth is not abuse imo. DPS builds taking advantage of the irregular heal spikes on the other-hand, are.

Meh, fassala + reactive + malubeth is the most annoying setup you can come up with at the moment for magicka builds. Well magicka templar since it's the only magicka build that is overpowered atm. As for stamina, Malubeth + Viper or Malubeth + any other full damage build is pretty broken too, since it guarantees you survivability without even pressing buttons while still providing insane burst. Currently running 2 Malubeth + 5 viper (on 2h bar) + 5 alchemist (bow bar) on stam sorc, and yeah, my ass is being saved by Malubeth all the time. Pulling of dark deals for 7k in PvP, 7-8k+ non crit vigors...
I used to teabag every Malutard I saw on my mana sorc, but since on PC EU, there's really only that nowadays, it's pretty much a join or die policy. Unless you're a one-shot ganking build, there's no conceivable way you can kill a Malubeth user (especially if it's a class with major mending or having major vitality pots or a nightblade with vicecannon + Malubeth) with pressure only.

Sanct16

@KenaPKK

I think Reactive/Malubeth is is a very bad setup tbh. You lose a lot by using these sets. You basically have 0 damage/healing output in order to get this tankiness. As someone who plays mostly small to medium groups chasing after big zergs, I don't have an issue with those tanks. Just ignore them, kill the other players and kill the tanks last. On the same note, I would guildkick any Templar who would run such a build in a group.

I think the only time this setup shines is in Xv1 so I totally understand everyone who is trying to 1vX and gets frustrated about the set but well, as long as Tank is supposed to be a "viable" archtype, you can't really complain about not being able to 1vX a tank imo.

Valencer

blabafat wrote: »

Tanking in pvp is a problem right now because it is skill-less. You can be out of stam and cced on the ground, but as long as you have malubeth and reactive, you will be fine. Resource management was already irrelevant for the most part. Running out of resources yet still living because of sets is only adding to that

And this is the problem. People that were easy pickings before DB and the malubeth "fixes" are suddenly a long tedious fight.

Every single day there's more and more people running a tanky malubeth Xv1 build. It's empowering the zergs even more, unless you run in an organised group that focuses on ulti bombing people before they can heal up. Not everyone wants to or can play like that all day.

Can totally relate to what kena is saying here. People who just arent that good are suddenly facetanking a ton of people easily or getting burst immunity simply because theyre slotting these sets and it shouldn't be that easy. (Of course Im not saying all malubeth users are bad players by definition)

Terrible, terrible meta.

juhasman

PvP overall head to the point where there are certain builds that forgive user a lot of mistakes. In PvP if You'll make a mistake You should be dead but still there are builds that completly ruin that theory and allows to make HUGE mistakes over and over and survive or even win.

timidobserver

I always enjoy watching people running burst builds in the burst meta get enraged when they run into people they can't burst. +1 to satisfaction if it is a stam burst build that is being denied.

Rylana

I am seriously over this *** malubeth ***

FIX THE GODDAMNED SET ZENIMAX, RIGHT GODDAMNED NOW.

Valencer

timidobserver wrote: »

I always enjoy watching people running burst builds in the burst meta get enraged when they run into people they can't burst. +1 to satisfaction if it is a stam burst build that is being denied.

Your point would be valid if being unburstable required some actual thought to be put into the playstyle. Right now it is not so.

Burst and mobility are the only 2 tools people have to fight back against numbers since 1.6

Mobility is already as difficult as it can get with all the gap closer spam and general mobility nerfs. Do we really need people to become burst immune in small scale PvP by simply wearing a 2-piece set?

Qbiken

I have no problems with the reactive set (leave it alone in my opinion). Just fix Malubeth so the forum can contain something else than just Malubeth posts

ScottK1994

Lol people denying an issue. Two or three BAD players should be able to kill one tank. If not then the game isn't working.

Tanks shouldn't be PvP viable unless it's it's at most one person he can tank