VMA is breaking me

Haquor · July 2016

I ran it constant for a long time. Spammed leaderboards every week. And even when there was only three traits i never got the one weapon i actually wanted. Shrapened fire staff.

After months of begging by the community to increase weapon drops rates and add nirnhoned to the trait list the response from zos was to change nirn to uselessness and add it along with a bunch of other traits greatly decreasing anyones chance of getting a desired weapon. Regardless of the 50% supposed wpn drop rate.

How is this not just spitting in the face of thier customers? The complete opposite of what the community begged for.

That was when i refused to do vmsa anymore.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · July 2016

At least you can complete it. I'm still stuck at stage 5

HoolDog · July 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

At least you can complete it. I'm still stuck at stage 5

I can complete it, effectively enough to get on the board... Truth be told though I was also stuck on round 5 for weeks. It made me have up, then after finding some desire to go back in or thinking about tweaks that could help I would go back and try again and again. Stage 9 round 3 and last boss was the same grind, stuck for weeks. I couldn't fathom how you could lower the boss to 70% for the first part of the fight, seemed impossible.

The whole thing was a long learning experience and CP/gear tweaking exercise.

In the end it turned out to be as simple as as much damage as possible and learn to get my regen via weapon enchants, skills (elemental drain) and medium/heavey weaved attacks between skills (light attack weaves won't cut the mustard with only 1k regen). Once you get the damage, kill the most dangerous in quick time.

Give it a go, that's how I got through in the end... Trying extreme changes when I was hitting the wall.

Anhedonie · July 2016

6 rings in a row. Should I be worried?

HoolDog · July 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

6 rings in a row. Should I be worried?

Lol I have been under the "it has to be a weapon now" mentality since I hit 4 in a row and here I am at 10.

I will be doing a few more tommorrow, I will keep the thread updated... Started to think I might be setting a record here... Maybe I will start wanting more rings, just to achieve something special lol.

Armitas · July 2016

vMA made me rage quit the game for about 3months. Trust me, quit before it ruins the game for you. There is no warning for when it breaks you, you are playing and then you just snap and you are done with the game entirely and don't even want to hear about it.

Vanzen · July 2016

Each time I read that kind of post, am so happy that I never set a foot in Vma.

I PVP 100% of the time I d need those maelstrom weaps but I wont inflict to myself the torture you all decribe ...

No thanks you sir.

Same as I NEVER farmed a single helm ...

And look what hapened. I got them all now with no effort and a bit of AP ...

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

Makkir wrote: »

show previous quotes

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

HoolDog · July 2016

Someone hit the nail on the head earlier reference RNG in trails and dungeons... At least it's content you can do with your pals you can have a laugh and such. Plus in trials like SO you can swap a lot of the gear between yourselves... 12 guild mates looking for seperate sets works well for a decent portion of the group.

Plus we have the upcoming swap feature. Group content RNG is looking to be in a proper decent place.

The future of VMA is not looking the same, nothing so far being implemented to help players

possible solutions mentioned:

1. Let's get a token system in place. 1 token per clear, 10 tokens at a maelstrom vendor per chosen weapon. Plus the chance in the final chest.

2. Increase the weapon drop to 100% and leave players to fight against the trait and what kind of weapon you drop.

3. Leave it how it is but remove the trash traits.

it would be nice to get some kind of response on this. helmet/ shoulders recieved better drops (bad traits added I know) but at least you actually drop the items you are looking for.

Omgwtfbbq321 · July 2016

This thread scares me, I have been playing VMA on and off since it came out. I am yet to finish it.

Living on the other side of the planet to the sever means having an even harder time than most.

I have Xbox recordings of the embarrassing state I experience. (Mobs teliporting around, the levels not showing their true state--broken ice platforms showing they are still there, huge lag spikes and delays between bar swaps, watching AOEs miss by meters and still taking damage).

My connection is flawless for other games.

Now to come on here and read the horror stories about drop rate, really kills any motivation to finish it.

I only need the destro staff, nothing else appeals to me.

Armitas · July 2016

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Living on the other side of the planet to the sever means having an even harder time than most.

I have Xbox recordings of the embarrassing state I experience. (Mobs teliporting around, the levels not showing their true state--broken ice platforms showing they are still there, huge lag spikes and delays between bar swaps, watching AOEs miss by meters and still taking damage).

My connection is flawless for other games.

I live on the server side of the planet and it's like this. Mobs animation canceling, heals and shields going off at the end of the animation, it's a nightmare. When I rage quit they had a huge memory leak as well as a stam bug where you were not getting the proper stam recovery. It's not fun at all, it's not a challenge in a good way, it's a complete frustration over how the game behaves.

xblackroxe · July 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Ran it maybe 20 times now.. think I got quite lucky:

- precise dagger
- sharpened axe

May I ask to have the right to kill you?

PurifedBladez · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

show previous quotes

Makkir wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

BDO grinding is no joke.

Banana · July 2016

Not me. I don't bother. Going through all that pain for a high chance of a box of @&#& is not for me.

Makkir · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

show previous quotes

Makkir wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

or you all couldve just listened to me the first time when I said dont do it

TheHsN · July 2016

40 runs i have only useful bow-sharpened...

that is unacceptable...they need to rise drops for good traits and good weapons.. cuz that will make me quit the game..cant take anymore.

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

Makkir wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

or you all couldve just listened to me the first time when I said dont do it

Some things you just have to learn on your own.

Jar_Ek · July 2016

Add a trade in system where you can trade in junk weapons with a vendor for a token. X tokens lets you buy a specific weapon box (still rng traits), Y lets you buy a specific weapon. Y>X.

SublimeSparo · July 2016

One day hell will freeze over and i'll get one of the weapons I want.must be well over 50runs +multiple leaderboard places an never even got a crap trait inferno, 1h axe or dagger

Vildebill · July 2016

Bethesda, please add this to your store, would buy one instantly!

HoolDog · July 2016

For the people dropping sharpened weapons, has it been from the last chest or from the leaderboards?

HoolDog · July 2016

11 rings in a row

LegendaryArcher · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

show previous quotes

Makkir wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

Let me sum this up.

1. ZOS introduced a somewhat-challenging-for-an-average-gamer solo arena in an MMO that takes 1 - 2 hours for a decent gamer to complete and gated best-in-slot weapons behind it that give you a very significant advantage over other players, not just some little feature for the min-maxers.

2. Due do the chest almost never dropping any weapons, it was only possible to obtain them via leaderboard. The weekly leaderboards were limited to 100 characters for each class. Weapons would only drop in Sharpened, Precise and Defending. All three traits were somewhat desirable. Hardcore farmers were farming the leaderboards with 10+ chracters every week. Some I know even used multiple accounts JUST for the sake of getting those weapons and continuing to play on the account where the desired weapon drops. That's how big of an advantage those weapons provided (and still provide).

3. Furthermore, during this time, there was a huge black market on EpicNPC regarding weekly vMA runs. Hackers offered to "hack your characters to the guaranteed weekly leaderboard" for 20$. A requirement for this service was having Meteor unlocked on your characters. Makes sense, nowadays, doesn't it? People offering this service had a lot of positive feedback from their customers, ~50 positive feedbacks for successful transactions each week. Now let's say each of them had at least 2 - 3 characters... not much space left for fair players there. You were either really good and could pull 500k+ scores easily, competing with the hacker customers, or you missed out.

4. Hacker, hacker customer, or fair player, doesn't matter. A small portion of those people managed to get their desired weapons during the time from vMA launch to DB. Many, however, did not. I ran the arena 200 times before DB and had a ton of leaderboard rewards. I didn't get a single one of the four weapons I wanted (Sharpened Bow, Sharpened Maul, Precise Resto Staff, Sharpened Inferno Staff). As a matter of fact, I only got one Destro Staff: a Defending Lightning Staff, a staff miles inferior to any crafted, non-set sharpened destro staff.

5. I tried explaining these problems to ZOS. And they reacted by completely separating people with Maelstrom weapon from those without. While before it was very unlikely to get a Maelstrom weapon, now it is utterly impossible. So now it's "those who were lucky before DB" vs. "those who are screwed now." It is not fair that a bunch of players, a significant amount of them players that paid hackers, got their Maelstrom weapons, while the drop chance people that don't have them yet face now is not realistic or worth a try. By polluting the loot table with many useless traits while not increasing (or even decreasing) the weapon drop chance, they drove many players, including myself, away from the game. I don't hate ESO, I just can't bring myself to give ZOS money. I refuse to play it without having access to all content, and having access to all content would require me to buy the DLC. And I couldn't live with myself doing so after how the game treated me. Zero reward in 201 vMA runs (a good half of them flawless).

@Cinnamon_Spider And then you come here complaining about grinds in Black Desert? Where RNG is fair and all the items with similar drop rates to vMA weapons in ESO are BoE? Sorry, but BDO rewards your effort. If you don't get what you want, you get other things you can turn into money and then get what you want. You're working towards goals. Ezareth's post is worth a laugh, though. Nobody is forcing you to grind and pass out next to the computer. Some people grind CP in ESO. Others grind AP/Alliance skill trees/Alliance ranks). Others grind Monster Set items (which is ok to a certain degree, when it's group content, since it's more fun in general; and will be much better now with the in-party trading).

You know what's the main difference is between BDO and ESO (except less lag, better graphics, and more variety in PvP and PvE in general)? When you grind in BDO, you get rewarded for your grind or whatever else it is you do! When you grind for the best-in-slot weapons in ESO, in a solo arena, you only waste ressources and effort. There is no reward whatsoever. You only lose! It's not that you at least get the gold back you spent on potions, repairs, etc. No, you lose 100%. Both real-life time spent and in-game ressources. I met people that ran it between 600 and 900 times without any of the weapons they wanted. They wasted months of their time and tons of ressources on this because they wanted to stay competitive.

Now you, @Cinnamon_Spider or @Makkir, go and tell those people, who are now happily enjoying BDO, it's bad because of grinding compared to ESO. Yes, most MMOs have a grinding aspect to them, so does real life for most people (they go to work every day and do similar things every day to become more wealthy and experienced). Sorry, but I'd rather go for a rewarding grind than a complete waste of time that is ESO.

Armitas · July 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I met people that ran it between 600 and 900 times without any of the weapons they wanted.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I find this disturbing that someone could run this dungeon 900x and not get what they wanted. Think about how many pots and repairs they went through, and how much time out of their lives were wasted. This really needs to be dealt with because it's causing people to leave the game, I myself am one of those people, i rage quit the game for 3 months after just one day of the dungeon back when it was first released.

Shader_Shibes · July 2016

I remember pre DB i ran it 3x in one day and geared my stam builds up in those 3 runs. Sharpened dagger, axe and bow dropped in a row.

WTB those days.

HoolDog · July 2016

12 rings in a row

kongkim · July 2016

And when you got the gear with the perfect stats with a 100% as some of you say you would never do the content again.
Can't see way people always complain about they don't get 100% the gear they what in no time..

HoolDog · July 2016

kongkim wrote: »

And when you got the gear with the perfect stats with a 100% as some of you say you would never do the content again.
Can't see way people always complain about they don't get 100% the gear they what in no time..

Not exactly asking for it in no time... This latest run alone is worth 18ish hours of doing the arena... Recieved not even a weapon at all, let alone the weapon I want.

That's not including time spent in there before this epic bad run.

i wouldn't even want to see how much time I have spent in here, and I am yet to receive any weapon I want... And I have 4 I am chasing.

Armitas · July 2016

HoolDog wrote: »

show previous quotes

kongkim wrote: »

And when you got the gear with the perfect stats with a 100% as some of you say you would never do the content again.
Can't see way people always complain about they don't get 100% the gear they what in no time..

Not exactly asking for it in no time... This latest run alone is worth 18ish hours of doing the arena... Recieved not even a weapon at all, let alone the weapon I want.

How much gold do you think you lost in those 18 hours due to repair, pots, and possibly cp change?

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

I uninstalled ESO for this very reason. No money for ZOS until vMA drops are fair.

If you don't wanna give another, much better game a chance *cough* Black Desert *cough*, at least unsubscribe from ESO Plus.

Now we all know your opinion holds as much weight as a sparrow feather. You have a problem with RNG yet you have zero quams about BDO, a game where only the kids who literally grind 20 hours a day have a huge edge on anyone who cannot...?
Sounds legit.

That game is horribad, as I said it would be before it launched, because it is yet another typical Korean game that rewards the grinders. By the way, the groups that left ESO for BDO are no longer playing BDO for the above mentioned reason.

In fact, you can read Ezareth's reasoning here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/88447-bdo-a-responsible-competitive-gamers-nightmare/

My opinion- Stick with ESO's green pastures, because it ain't better on the the other side of the fence.
I am going further tag my favorite spider @Cinnamon_Spider who I am sure can reinforce what I just said and save you guys the heartache of flocking to that toxic cesspool of a game.

When I hear people complain about RNG in ESO, I just laugh. The grinding and RNG in everything in BDO is soul crushing.

If anyone thinks that game is the answer to their problems, open your wallet and go play it for a few months. If anything, you'll find a new respect for how ESO does things and be happier with it when you come back. It's an expensive lesson.

Let me sum this up.

1. ZOS introduced a somewhat-challenging-for-an-average-gamer solo arena in an MMO that takes 1 - 2 hours for a decent gamer to complete and gated best-in-slot weapons behind it that give you a very significant advantage over other players, not just some little feature for the min-maxers.

2. Due do the chest almost never dropping any weapons, it was only possible to obtain them via leaderboard. The weekly leaderboards were limited to 100 characters for each class. Weapons would only drop in Sharpened, Precise and Defending. All three traits were somewhat desirable. Hardcore farmers were farming the leaderboards with 10+ chracters every week. Some I know even used multiple accounts JUST for the sake of getting those weapons and continuing to play on the account where the desired weapon drops. That's how big of an advantage those weapons provided (and still provide).

3. Furthermore, during this time, there was a huge black market on EpicNPC regarding weekly vMA runs. Hackers offered to "hack your characters to the guaranteed weekly leaderboard" for 20$. A requirement for this service was having Meteor unlocked on your characters. Makes sense, nowadays, doesn't it? People offering this service had a lot of positive feedback from their customers, ~50 positive feedbacks for successful transactions each week. Now let's say each of them had at least 2 - 3 characters... not much space left for fair players there. You were either really good and could pull 500k+ scores easily, competing with the hacker customers, or you missed out.

4. Hacker, hacker customer, or fair player, doesn't matter. A small portion of those people managed to get their desired weapons during the time from vMA launch to DB. Many, however, did not. I ran the arena 200 times before DB and had a ton of leaderboard rewards. I didn't get a single one of the four weapons I wanted (Sharpened Bow, Sharpened Maul, Precise Resto Staff, Sharpened Inferno Staff). As a matter of fact, I only got one Destro Staff: a Defending Lightning Staff, a staff miles inferior to any crafted, non-set sharpened destro staff.

5. I tried explaining these problems to ZOS. And they reacted by completely separating people with Maelstrom weapon from those without. While before it was very unlikely to get a Maelstrom weapon, now it is utterly impossible. So now it's "those who were lucky before DB" vs. "those who are screwed now." It is not fair that a bunch of players, a significant amount of them players that paid hackers, got their Maelstrom weapons, while the drop chance people that don't have them yet face now is not realistic or worth a try. By polluting the loot table with many useless traits while not increasing (or even decreasing) the weapon drop chance, they drove many players, including myself, away from the game. I don't hate ESO, I just can't bring myself to give ZOS money. I refuse to play it without having access to all content, and having access to all content would require me to buy the DLC. And I couldn't live with myself doing so after how the game treated me. Zero reward in 201 vMA runs (a good half of them flawless).

@Cinnamon_Spider And then you come here complaining about grinds in Black Desert? Where RNG is fair and all the items with similar drop rates to vMA weapons in ESO are BoE? Sorry, but BDO rewards your effort. If you don't get what you want, you get other things you can turn into money and then get what you want. You're working towards goals. Ezareth's post is worth a laugh, though. Nobody is forcing you to grind and pass out next to the computer. Some people grind CP in ESO. Others grind AP/Alliance skill trees/Alliance ranks). Others grind Monster Set items (which is ok to a certain degree, when it's group content, since it's more fun in general; and will be much better now with the in-party trading).

You know what's the main difference is between BDO and ESO (except less lag, better graphics, and more variety in PvP and PvE in general)? When you grind in BDO, you get rewarded for your grind or whatever else it is you do! When you grind for the best-in-slot weapons in ESO, in a solo arena, you only waste ressources and effort. There is no reward whatsoever. You only lose! It's not that you at least get the gold back you spent on potions, repairs, etc. No, you lose 100%. Both real-life time spent and in-game ressources. I met people that ran it between 600 and 900 times without any of the weapons they wanted. They wasted months of their time and tons of ressources on this because they wanted to stay competitive.

Now you, @Cinnamon_Spider or @Makkir, go and tell those people, who are now happily enjoying BDO, it's bad because of grinding compared to ESO. Yes, most MMOs have a grinding aspect to them, so does real life for most people (they go to work every day and do similar things every day to become more wealthy and experienced). Sorry, but I'd rather go for a rewarding grind than a complete waste of time that is ESO.

Fair RNG? You consider the soul crushing non stop grind where you could spends hour or days getting nothing, or get what you need and then lose it trying to upgrade, fair? What planet are you from? Let me tell you about how much was lost in fail stacking and how much time I spent grinding marks and earings. Let me tell you about the Liverto amulet that wouldn't go past +13 while everyone else was rocking max AP and DP.
Let's talk about the AH bots that make it impossible to buy what you want, even if you can manage to farm up the money.
Let's talk about how there was one set of gear that was BIS for every class.
Let's talk about the toxic BDO community where guilds of no-lifers push lesser geared people around just because they can.
What brought me back to ESO was the amount of variety in gear combinations, the community, and the devs that do want this to be a geat game. They may make bad decisions sometimes, but they want it to suceed and they want us to enjoy our time spent here.

There is nothing in this game worse than anything in BDO. If you don't believe me, go play it. But make sure you buy the upgrade with the horse, along with your outfit for grinding, outfit for fishing, normal guille suit, desert suit, cooking, horse training, and at least three pets so you don't have to stop and loot. Then come back and tell me how much better it is.