Why the heck do most dungeons and trials in MMOs have to be 2 + hours?

MrAppleman

I disagree with you OP, Why should you be able to complete all content so easily and quickly?
It's getting kind of ridiculous how easy everything has become and it's not enough??

Listen, find yourself some friends set a time to run something, play what you can and learn for an hour or so. When you come back you'll get a lot farther. That's how you progress and learn the content to the point that you can speed run it.
I had to spend so many hours in each shot at VMA but now your progress is saved and can be completed at your leisure.
I spent 12 hours getting to round 6 in vMA my first try. I now complete the arena entirely in under an hour.

If you could beat everything in under an hour your first attempt this game would be a joke, there would be no content worth running.

lazarusarkane1

MrAppleman wrote: »

I disagree with you OP, Why should you be able to complete all content so easily and quickly?
It's getting kind of ridiculous how easy everything has become and it's not enough??

Listen, find yourself some friends set a time to run something, play what you can and learn for an hour or so. When you come back you'll get a lot farther. That's how you progress and learn the content to the point that you can speed run it.
I had to spend so many hours in each shot at VMA but now your progress is saved and can be completed at your leisure.
I spent 12 hours getting to round 6 in vMA my first try. I now complete the arena entirely in under an hour.

If you could beat everything in under an hour your first attempt this game would be a joke, there would be no content worth running.

Exactly this! If mmos were made as easy as quite a few would like it to be, there would no longer be any reason to play them. Honestly there are other games out there that most everything can be completed in a small amount of time. Perhaps OP and his friend should move to one of those games instead of expecting every game out there to be molded to their small timeframe for gaming.

newtinmpls

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Or teams not running without a tank or healer?

Err... wait, what?!?

First off, what platform are you on - if you are on PC NA myself and my spouse can intro you to the three lowest undaunted, easy peasy - we can do all six of the lowest ones as a duo (Battlemage DPS & Templar healer). So it would be no trouble to take a total newbie through and discuss the various mechanics.

That being said, never ever run with "no healer"... even a sorc with a pet heal (Twilight Matriarch) and mutagen on the back bar is better than nothing.

Same for a tank; highest health character with inner rage from undaunted is better than nothing.

Ep1kMalware

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

Ch4mpTW

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

nSO on CP160 can be done in 5mins.? Seriously? If yes, your group damage per second must be incredible.

SirDopey

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Wait, so you want to dumb down the content so that you can run through without a healer of a tank? The harder content is always going to take a while the first time you do it, but then after its a piece of ***.

Think about the flow on effects, lets dumb down the content so beginners or 4 man DPS groups can run through these things with ease, leaving no enjoyable content for genuine good 4 man groups cause it's all too easy......

I dare say find some more active guilds, I don't think I've ever had to wait more than 5 minutes to put a pledge group together or a helm farm group.

Ep1kMalware

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

nSO on CP160 can be done in 5mins.? Seriously? If yes, your group damage per second must be incredible.

160 is like 20min but we usually cheese it.

Ep1kMalware

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

???z/ 2 hours??z?

darkshade caverns best record: 5 minutes, eleven seconds, even killing transmuted alits and efery optional add in the place.
average wgt run: 15min
vet sanctum: barely over 1hr
normal sanctum: 5min-20min
normal maw: 30minutes or so? possibly 40.
vet dsa: 30 min? nut sure, last boss barely takes us a full minute to beat.
other trials: 8-11 minutes.

and people wonder why so many people leave the group, if you're freaking there for 2+ hrs.

nSO on CP160 can be done in 5mins.? Seriously? If yes, your group damage per second must be incredible.

160 is like 20min but we usually cheese it.

if we did it with our core group and everyone was on point we could [robably do it in ~12-15min ish. not likely though. those gear grinds are a chore and nobody takes them seriously.

Bromburak

Why the heck do most dungeons and trials in MMOs have to be 2 + hours?

Apparently you don't play MMOs because most dungeons are not 2+.

Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

That's what happens when you play with randoms ...

I have zero tolerance for afk players and I don't like players with bad excuses like RL comes first.
Here is why, if I join a group I basically have an appointment with real people and we on the same mission that requires to bring some time for all members. This is a well known fact and pre reqisite for every single member in this group. So why the heck would I waste their time by going afk or whatever? If I am busy or don't have enough time I know that before so I would not join a group, end of story.
That's fair because there is no reason to waste other peoples time ...

This is a question of discipline and respect and most players that go afk simply don't care about group mates time ...
So why would everybody else wait for one selfish person thinking his time is more important than others? Not acceptable.

One reason why most of us have guilds or a regular group with rules because randoms are not reliable, very simple.

Ep1kMalware

Bromburak wrote: »

Why the heck do most dungeons and trials in MMOs have to be 2 + hours?

Apparently you don't play MMOs because most dungeons are not 2+.

yeah.. I can see running inexperienced people through trials taking that long for sure. but unless you're doing wgt with 3 inexperienced plauers without mics no dungeon should ever take that long to co,plete.

Gargath

If you are unlucky to be grouped with players who don't know their roles/abilities, they keep dying ang dying, no matter how many times you rez them. Finally you give up on rezzing and then yes, it can take 2 hours to complete, if you are a health tank with low damage but still able to complete the boss alone .

hamburgerler76

lol

Mush55

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I love adventure just like the next semi-fanatic, but what's wrong with a 1 hour dungeon, Zen?

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

And while I'm sure there are those that may say differently because they always have the ideal team, that is not the case for many. Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress? That's messed up, and not player friendly. Yeah, yeah, I know don't do it unless you have the time to spend all day on it is what some want to say. But aside from work there is still life to live at home with family, friends, eating dinner and such. All too often people have to leave mid-way through to take care of these needs and responsibilities.

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck.

Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future? Thanks for reading.

Only one thing to say, vanilla WoW Molten core used to take 2 weeks when first released and we finally got it down to 4hours if all went well and most of the 40 of us (yes 40 man raid) were geared up at lvl 60..

Ep1kMalware

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

if I went 3dps 1 good cc tank there's no dungeon, save prison, that we can't do in 15 minutes or less.

Ep1kMalware

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

'then the few'? lolwut? it's very uncommon to pug a group and not complete something these days. If I understood correct;y what ypu just said is the game should be balanced around the unsuccessful and those still learning to play the game.

are you daft? l=what kind of ,mental gymnastics did you do in order for you tk stretch your imagimatiom that far? Granted, if you're here actually complaining about this odds are you're not willing to think open,indedly and will argue with non-sequetors against anybody that does not share your narrow minded OPINIONS.

perhaps vanilla gaming isn't for you. >.>

I think disney has an mmo out, everybodu can be a winner there!

DurzoBlint13

making the silver pledges/keys give you a very good shot at Monster shoulders was not enough? Just do normal pledge and cross your fingers if you do not have time for Vet. Sounds like your real issue is with your groups and not the dungeon itself though. Once you find a group that can complete the run in a decent amount of time just send them friend request and try to run with those same people. If they are pugging dungeons they probably do not have a guild to do it with any way so you should all be happy to find a regular group

Wifeaggro13

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I love adventure just like the next semi-fanatic, but what's wrong with a 1 hour dungeon, Zen?

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

And while I'm sure there are those that may say differently because they always have the ideal team, that is not the case for many. Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress? That's messed up, and not player friendly. Yeah, yeah, I know don't do it unless you have the time to spend all day on it is what some want to say. But aside from work there is still life to live at home with family, friends, eating dinner and such. All too often people have to leave mid-way through to take care of these needs and responsibilities.

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck.

Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future? Thanks for reading.

you could probably do 4 or 5 dungeons in 2 hours. they only take long if you dont know them. I seriously wish they had a 4 hour legit dungeon in this game. All the Vr content in 4 mans can almost be solo'd

Mortehl

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I love adventure just like the next semi-fanatic, but what's wrong with a 1 hour dungeon, Zen?

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

And while I'm sure there are those that may say differently because they always have the ideal team, that is not the case for many. Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress? That's messed up, and not player friendly. Yeah, yeah, I know don't do it unless you have the time to spend all day on it is what some want to say. But aside from work there is still life to live at home with family, friends, eating dinner and such. All too often people have to leave mid-way through to take care of these needs and responsibilities.

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck.

Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future? Thanks for reading.

..... Maybe because not everyone suffers from ADHD.... Dude, trials and special events like arenas are meant to take a long time because they're challenging. I'm trying so hard not to laugh and wonder how absolutely terrible you must be to have a two hour dungeon experience but.... Yeah, people like you cause watered down crap to be developed for the rest of us.

Mortehl

Also, not everyone needs two hours for dragonstar. Man you mus really suck at gaming.

idk

No dungeon or trial in ESO takes 2 hours let alone more than 2 hours unless a group is still learning it.

AA and HRC trials can be cleared on 15 minutes. SO before being updated took maybe 30 minutes. vSO takes longer now because we are still working it out but can be cleared in less than 1.5 hours.

No dungeon in ESO takes over an hour with many clears in less than 15 minutes. The longest 4 man dungeon (vICP) can be cleared in less than 45 minutes and vDSA about the same time.

Cryptical

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

LOL you have to git gud before you can run without those rolls, if you all bring the deeps to burn a boss in 15-30 seconds then by all means go for it.

If you're going to use pidgin english slang in such an arrogant manner, then you should be sure the rest of your post is spotless.

Roles. Not rolls.