Why the heck do most dungeons and trials in MMOs have to be 2 + hours?

Ethromelb14_ESO

I love adventure just like the next semi-fanatic, but what's wrong with a 1 hour dungeon, Zen?

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

And while I'm sure there are those that may say differently because they always have the ideal team, that is not the case for many. Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress? That's messed up, and not player friendly. Yeah, yeah, I know don't do it unless you have the time to spend all day on it is what some want to say. But aside from work there is still life to live at home with family, friends, eating dinner and such. All too often people have to leave mid-way through to take care of these needs and responsibilities.

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck.

Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future? Thanks for reading.

Ch4mpTW

That's a good question, OP. Lol. I wonder that myself sometimes. Like take VMA for example. Why is it so damn long? Seriously. Why? And then of course the counter argument for some people would be, "Well if you git gud and L2P, you can do it in under an hour." So yeeeeah. Um.... I have no idea why. Although, I suppose it could be to increase your immersion. Lol.

phreatophile

Trials can take a while, but dungeons... 2 hours...

nine9six

A 2-hour Dungeon run? We all better be wasted and having a laugh on TeamSpeak!

Ethromelb14_ESO

nine9six wrote: »

A 2-hour Dungeon run? We all better be wasted and having a laugh on TeamSpeak!

I agree, but trust me, it happens. I've seen it. Whether they're scrubs, noobs, newbs, or not ... it does happen.

Flaminir

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

Ghost-Shot

There are no dungeons that take more than 45 minutes, if your group knows what they're doing none of them will take more than 30. Trials are this games take on raiding, they should take awhile. With that being said prior to the SotH patch 2 of the trials should take less than 8 minutes to complete, one of them takes 45 minutes to an hour for most groups, and one only has a handful of groups that are capable of clearing, expect 3-4 hours for a typical progression raid in there.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

What game are you playing? There is no dungeon or trial in this game that should take a proper group more than about an hour to complete. AA and HelRa take less than 10 minutes. VSOHM, is about an hour with a solid group. VMOL is about the same assuming you actually clear it without wiping a thousand times (different issue).

As for group dungeons, Most take less than 20 minutes. COA and WGT could be closer to 30 with prison being the longest at maybe 45 minutes.

I think you might need a better group or a good PVE guild.

Nestor

I did spend more than an hour on the Prison one time, but that was learning the place.

Trials, I do agree that the time needed to complete those is a barrier to me doing that content. I am not saying they should be shorter, but maybe we could have some trials that are either in multiple parts or that are just smaller for people to do. Of course, part of being a Trial is to utilize all your skills, including maintaining resources and armor condition over a protracted lengthy ordeal. So, not really sure what to do there.

BlackEar

I probably did 2 hours in VCOA when it was first released but nowadays if it takes over 45 min. it is a sign that it is not worth it, to me personally.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Can you pls tell me which dungeon / trial can't be completed in about half an hour or less?
If you need more time, you can either accept this, do easier dungeons or find a better group.

LadyNalcarya

What? If dungeons take 2 hours for you, you're doing something terribly wrong.

Rohamad_Ali

Ain't no one got 2hrs fur dat !

Srlsly that's too long .

Ethromelb14_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Ethromelb14_ESO

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

What? If dungeons take 2 hours for you, you're doing something terribly wrong.

Well, I'm not in the dungeon by myself.

Ethromelb14_ESO

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Can you pls tell me which dungeon / trial can't be completed in about half an hour or less?
If you need more time, you can either accept this, do easier dungeons or find a better group.

Explain what would be the point of me detailing the dungeon when you would only see things from your perspective and disagree? It's a pointless endeavor, and the very reason why the question is directly addressed at developers that can do something about it, and not at fellow players, that may or may not be potentially narrow-minded - no offense.

iam117

you should find a guild that typically farms the end game instances, i know when we do farm run in say vicp, its like a 16-20 min run. although some pugs still struggle with vicp/vwgt and even vcoa. there are also quite a few guilds that do weekly trials for people to get clears, again aa, hrc, take very little time, and even completing nso/nmol can be done pretty easily, vso can be a challenge and decent/good groups are under 1h. vmol brings its own problems, not only does it take a very coordinated group, its also extremely buggy and suffers from dc's constantly, bad because the instance requires you to have everyone there for some of the encounters. i would try to hop into a guild and see about getting in some faster runs.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Ethromelb14_ESO

BlackEar wrote: »

I probably did 2 hours in VCOA when it was first released but nowadays if it takes over 45 min. it is a sign that it is not worth it, to me personally.

You have experience on your side, which is something everyone has to get on a personal level. Do you know how many missions higher level players go in to assuming that everyone should already know what to do, and therefore end up being very annoying and unpleasant to run with? Too many.

The truth is Maelstrom Arena, and Dragonstar Arena do not need to be as long as they are ... in my opinion of course. I have beaten them for the record, so their difficulty is not the point, it's their length.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Can you pls tell me which dungeon / trial can't be completed in about half an hour or less?
If you need more time, you can either accept this, do easier dungeons or find a better group.

Explain what would be the point of me detailing the dungeon when you would only see things from your perspective and disagree? It's a pointless endeavor, and the very reason why the question is directly addressed at developers that can do something about it, and not at fellow players, that may or may not be potentially narrow-minded - no offense.

If you tell me which dungeon you were trying, I might be able to tell you something that will improve your speed. Btw I'm not rushing through all content. I don't mind spending 3h on a single trial boss to get new players familiar with it. Im just saying that if you want to do it fast, it can be done.

Ghost-Shot

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

LOL you have to git gud before you can run without those rolls, if you all bring the deeps to burn a boss in 15-30 seconds then by all means go for it. But you can't suggest balancing group content around people who aren't going to bring a tank or a healer, that's stupid. As mentioned before, get a better guild, make more friends in game, or maybe group content isn't really for you.

Smileybones

The length of group activities is fine, if you don't have the time do others activities that day. If you never have time then you should consider playing other games than MMOs.

Ethromelb14_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

Ethromelb14_ESO

Smileybones wrote: »

The length of group activities is fine, if you don't have the time do others activities that day. If you never have time then you should consider playing other games than MMOs.

Please stop, you're getting a bit ridiculous now. That's like me saying, if you don't like what I typed, you should consider going to a different forum that doesn't have people with a different mindset from you.

Ethromelb14_ESO

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

LOL you have to git gud before you can run without those rolls, if you all bring the deeps to burn a boss in 15-30 seconds then by all means go for it. But you can't suggest balancing group content around people who aren't going to bring a tank or a healer, that's stupid. As mentioned before, get a better guild, make more friends in game, or maybe group content isn't really for you.

Now that's kind of stupid. Did you know they test games around people that aren't very good at the game? Do research.

iam117

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

i think that is a little misguided, everyone who can compete the content in the times mentioned, and those that create builds that people use, and the successful guilds do not start out that way, it takes alot of work to get there, and guilds all come and go, no one guild stays on top forever, just like players. your demeaning the amount of work it takes those people to get to that point, yes some get very arrogant about it, but not all, pointing fingers on forums about it does not make it so. people spend hours learning their rotations, i cant even count how much time i have spent on mammoths in no armor trying to perfect stuff, and it seems like i still suck half the time. the point is, its a game yes, your supposed to enjoy it yes, but there needs to be content that is enjoyable by the beginners AND the people who have put more time in to get better. thats why there are different degrees of content. if your having a tougher experience, find players to help you get better so you can get your competions, dont ask for the difficulty to change, your asking zenimax to cater to your specific wants as an individual instead of overall catering to thousands of paying customers that are on all different levels of play. no every person is going to like every part of the game, i wouldnt enjoy going back and playing in stonefalls on my min/maxed toons.............

Ghost-Shot

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

LOL you have to git gud before you can run without those rolls, if you all bring the deeps to burn a boss in 15-30 seconds then by all means go for it. But you can't suggest balancing group content around people who aren't going to bring a tank or a healer, that's stupid. As mentioned before, get a better guild, make more friends in game, or maybe group content isn't really for you.

Now that's kind of stupid. Did you know they test games around people that aren't very good at the game? Do research.

But you know what those people have? A tank and a healer.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I completed a Veteran Crypt of Hearts run two days ago with a time of 10 minutes, 45 seconds. It was a great run. Except for VWGT and VICP, all Veteran and non-Vet dungeons usually only take 15-30 minutes.

But if you have a bad group, and you repeatedly die on bosses, or if you are replacing players, of course it will take much, much longer.

Ethromelb14_ESO

liv3mind wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

i think that is a little misguided, everyone who can compete the content in the times mentioned, and those that create builds that people use, and the successful guilds do not start out that way, it takes alot of work to get there, and guilds all come and go, no one guild stays on top forever, just like players. your demeaning the amount of work it takes those people to get to that point, yes some get very arrogant about it, but not all, pointing fingers on forums about it does not make it so. people spend hours learning their rotations, i cant even count how much time i have spent on mammoths in no armor trying to perfect stuff, and it seems like i still suck half the time. the point is, its a game yes, your supposed to enjoy it yes, but there needs to be content that is enjoyable by the beginners AND the people who have put more time in to get better. thats why there are different degrees of content. if your having a tougher experience, find players to help you get better so you can get your competions, dont ask for the difficulty to change, your asking zenimax to cater to your specific wants as an individual instead of overall catering to thousands of paying customers that are on all different levels of play. no every person is going to like every part of the game, i wouldnt enjoy going back and playing in stonefalls on my min/maxed toons.............

Perhaps I was speaking in Yiddish. I never asked for the game to be made easier, so don't put words in my mouth. As far as the accomplishments of other players, I never mentioned it because it was not the point, nor was I ignoring anyone's endeavors or hard paved roads. Nor was I talking about myself. So you and everybody like you can stop assuming these stupid confounded conclusions. Learn to freaking read. I covered all the possible stupid things people could possibly say or suggest. I even covered that they would consider what I'm saying to be stupid to suggest. I ... don't ... give ... a damn what your judgmental minds think.

I am here for those that asked me to request a modification to the end game content, and that's what I'm going to do. What you think of what I think is of little significance. But by all means continue sharing your ridiculous thoughts. I've asked my question to those that matter. My post was not intended to offend or minimize achievements, so don't be silly.

iam117

.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

liv3mind wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

i think that is a little misguided, everyone who can compete the content in the times mentioned, and those that create builds that people use, and the successful guilds do not start out that way, it takes alot of work to get there, and guilds all come and go, no one guild stays on top forever, just like players. your demeaning the amount of work it takes those people to get to that point, yes some get very arrogant about it, but not all, pointing fingers on forums about it does not make it so. people spend hours learning their rotations, i cant even count how much time i have spent on mammoths in no armor trying to perfect stuff, and it seems like i still suck half the time. the point is, its a game yes, your supposed to enjoy it yes, but there needs to be content that is enjoyable by the beginners AND the people who have put more time in to get better. thats why there are different degrees of content. if your having a tougher experience, find players to help you get better so you can get your competions, dont ask for the difficulty to change, your asking zenimax to cater to your specific wants as an individual instead of overall catering to thousands of paying customers that are on all different levels of play. no every person is going to like every part of the game, i wouldnt enjoy going back and playing in stonefalls on my min/maxed toons.............

Perhaps I was speaking in Yiddish. I never asked for the game to be made easier, so don't put words in my mouth. As far as the accomplishments of other players, I never mentioned it because it was not the point, nor was I ignoring anyone's endeavors or hard paved roads. Nor was I talking about myself. So you and everybody like you can stop assuming these stupid confounded conclusions. Learn to freaking read. I covered all the possible stupid things people could possibly say or suggest. I even covered that they would consider what I'm saying to be stupid to suggest. I ... don't ... give ... a damn what your judgmental minds think.

I am here for those that asked me to request a modification to the end game content, and that's what I'm going to do. What you think of what I think is of little significance. But by all means continue sharing your ridiculous thoughts. I've asked my question to those that matter. My post was not intended to offend or minimize achievements, so don't be silly.

so then i guess i will ask the simple questions and ask, if you

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

... don't ... give ... a damn what your judgmental minds think.

then why would you post it in a public forum? why not just send it to zeni directly? people tried to give you viable options to pass along to

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

those that asked me to request a modification to the end game content

. thats called people trying to be helpful and explain how to do it given the games current perimeters.

so i guess to answer your questions directly, so you understand that i am reading:

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Why the heck do most dungeons and trials in MMOs have to be 2 + hours?

they dont

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

plenty of people log in very quickly to do the dailys or weekly trials, before work, after work, or whenever, thats why getting in a good active guild is good, you can find people easier, and typically they know the content, that makes the run faster.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress?

thats just the way that instance is made, and with the next patch is will be even longer, sucks for some, but it is what it is, maybe your friends will get lucky and they will make it like vmsa and save progress, but not likely because it counts 4 peoples progress instead of 1.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck. Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future?

back to catering to building the game around a specific need, not the audience as a whole, joining a good guild can aleviate basically every question in your OP with the exception of DSA. pass it along to your friends who were asking.

or just message zenimax next time, not publicly then you wont have to throw a tissy when people respond with answers that dont take your fancy.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

liv3mind wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

There isn't a dungeon in the game that takes much more than 30mins ish with a reasonable, but not elite level, group.... (Maybe prison with some groups)

I do accept that its a little different with some PUG groups... but there are even many dungeons that can be done in about 15mins....

I guess my point is, you say the dungeons take hours... the dungeons themselves don't...

Being constructive I would say that the groups you have been running with have been poor/new to the game/dungeon if they are taking two hours...... so more down to the group than the dungeons.

Solution, find better groups. Join guilds, get to know some people that way who are online when you are and you'll find the time to complete will drop quite a lot.

In a perfect scenario, all that sounds great when reading it, but it's not realistic. I'm already part of 5 guilds, and many are able to do these missions effectively. But how do you account for players new to the mission aspect of the game? Or teams not running without a tank or healer? Not everyone has well-rounded characters, and problems, defeats, and low morale from those repeated defeats will arise. What you're using to justify the dungeon, and trial lengths, even some solo end-game content, is a perfect dynamic that is at best a minor occurrence.

As we speak there are a plethora of guilds with 500 members and only 50 active players, and of those 50 active players maybe only 25 of them are good, and then only 15 of the 25 are on at the same time. Then of the 15, you are only really friends with 8 of them, and then those 8 aren't always on at the same time. So you're lucky if you get 4 of those members. And hopefully those four members aren't busy doing another mission of their own and/or group up full with someone else. That's the realistic circumstances in ESO.

And just because those players that experience this are't on the forums to co-sign what I'm saying, doesn't make it any less true. There are too many variables to be able to use what you're saying as a solution.

Are you asking for all these dungeons be scaled so a random group can clear in 20 minutes? Sorry, but that would be the end of this game (not that they havent already taken a few large steps down the path).

One thing you specifically mention is groups running without a healer or tank. Well, this should actually be faster for groups that chose to do it, but if you are running with 3-4 DPS and getting stuck, well that's on the group. These dungeons were not designed to be run that way, and only very good groups should go that route.

Not to be mean or anything, but I'm pretty sure I never mentioned scaling-down, if you read the whole post. I did, however say they're too long. I know we're all experts now and the game isn't much of a challenge in so many eyes, because we can do almost everything in a blink. Not the point ... and the game revolves around more than those that think nothing matters besides how well a person can play and how great their guild is.

We all want to compare our cool builds to the masses, and compare our cool guilds to the next unsuccessful guild, and say it's your fault you're not as cool and efficient as me, and tell people what they need to do to make their experience a hopefully spitting perfect image of what you believe everyone should be capable of. Would be nice if it were that simple but it doesn't work that way. And I'll leave it in Zen's hands to try and find a way to accommodate players having a tougher experience then the few.

i think that is a little misguided, everyone who can compete the content in the times mentioned, and those that create builds that people use, and the successful guilds do not start out that way, it takes alot of work to get there, and guilds all come and go, no one guild stays on top forever, just like players. your demeaning the amount of work it takes those people to get to that point, yes some get very arrogant about it, but not all, pointing fingers on forums about it does not make it so. people spend hours learning their rotations, i cant even count how much time i have spent on mammoths in no armor trying to perfect stuff, and it seems like i still suck half the time. the point is, its a game yes, your supposed to enjoy it yes, but there needs to be content that is enjoyable by the beginners AND the people who have put more time in to get better. thats why there are different degrees of content. if your having a tougher experience, find players to help you get better so you can get your competions, dont ask for the difficulty to change, your asking zenimax to cater to your specific wants as an individual instead of overall catering to thousands of paying customers that are on all different levels of play. no every person is going to like every part of the game, i wouldnt enjoy going back and playing in stonefalls on my min/maxed toons.............

Perhaps I was speaking in Yiddish. I never asked for the game to be made easier, so don't put words in my mouth. As far as the accomplishments of other players, I never mentioned it because it was not the point, nor was I ignoring anyone's endeavors or hard paved roads. Nor was I talking about myself. So you and everybody like you can stop assuming these stupid confounded conclusions. Learn to freaking read. I covered all the possible stupid things people could possibly say or suggest. I even covered that they would consider what I'm saying to be stupid to suggest. I ... don't ... give ... a damn what your judgmental minds think.

I am here for those that asked me to request a modification to the end game content, and that's what I'm going to do. What you think of what I think is of little significance. But by all means continue sharing your ridiculous thoughts. I've asked my question to those that matter. My post was not intended to offend or minimize achievements, so don't be silly.

But that is exactly what you are asking for, even if you dont realize it. I am not trying to be rude, but these dungeons are designed to be run in 30 minutes or less, and that is what most groups can do it in. You are upset because you cant clear with your group in less than a few hours. You also seem to want a solution to this perceived problem.

The only way to achieve what you are asking for is to nerf the content, or actually make the maps shorter. Well, the maps aren't the issue. Remove all enemies and you can walk through even the longest trial in about 5 minutes. The limiting factor on time is how fast you kill the enemies. The only way to save time in your case would be to nerf/eliminate the enemies. The vast majority of the player base does not want this. That is why you are getting the pushback on the forums.

EDIT: I could get on board with an abbreviated Maelstrom arena (perhaps run rounds 6-9 for a shot at a chest), but VMA is still an hour tops at most for an experienced player. It's also solo content, that is painfully boring, so not really on topic.

Kalifas

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I love adventure just like the next semi-fanatic, but what's wrong with a 1 hour dungeon, Zen?

These end-game missions are too often made like people aren't suppose to have lives or run something quick. You can't afford to squeeze in a trial or dungeon before having to go to work, or quickly run with your friends since they'll all be off by the time you get off of work at night. Dungeons taking long because players leave or a replacement player can't be found, so the waiting game begins.

And while I'm sure there are those that may say differently because they always have the ideal team, that is not the case for many. Why does Dragonstar Arena have to be a Marathon, you can't afford to leave, otherwise you'll lose all your progress? That's messed up, and not player friendly. Yeah, yeah, I know don't do it unless you have the time to spend all day on it is what some want to say. But aside from work there is still life to live at home with family, friends, eating dinner and such. All too often people have to leave mid-way through to take care of these needs and responsibilities.

I have a friend that works a lot of hours, he loves the game, but can't afford to do big missions because they take too long, and he has to get back from break to drive a truck.

Perhaps the game can be built around this acknowledgement in the future? Thanks for reading.

Umm, a majority of dungeons in FFXIV are 30min- 1hour tops.