Reduced block cost hard cap?

Powerburrito20

Anybody know what's max on reduced block cost? I mean combined between all sources ( armor trait, CP, etc.. )? I think I read 25% somewhere?

IxskullzxI

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265399/detailed-explanation-of-block-cost-changes/p1
Here is a link where wrobel goes over the formula for block cost. I don't think there is an actual hard cap technically. You're just limited by gear, enchants, cp, etc. His pts calculations are the cost for live now.

Powerburrito20

IxskullzxI wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265399/detailed-explanation-of-block-cost-changes/p1
Here is a link where wrobel goes over the formula for block cost. I don't think there is an actual hard cap technically. You're just limited by gear, enchants, cp, etc. His pts calculations are the cost for live now.

Thanks! I guess I need to read the whole post. I'm just concerned if I put reduced block cost trait on all the armor I can, and 100 CP in reduce block cost ( 25% is the max you can get from CP? ) that somewhere I'll get to the point where adding more isn't doing anything. Not sure if there was a max block cost you could have.

IxskullzxI

It will keep reducing it. 25% is the most for cp. You can get potentially 8 sturdy traits from armor, 3 enchants on jewelry, the one hand and shield passive, and having defensive stance gives another 8% reduced cost. The base cost for block is 2160. You can get it down to 399 if my math is right. Technically lower if you factory in the stam return from the constitution passive in heavy armor. (assuming you are using heavy)

Powerburrito20

Perfect, I am using all heavy and currently have reduced cost trait on all pieces. I " think " I have more than 100 CP in because I didn't know about the 25%, will have to respec. Thanks for the info!

Vangy

@Powerburrito20

You can use my excel sheeet on P1 of this link. Its pretty self explanatory.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268522/heavy-armour-and-block-cost/p1

Lexxypwns

Powerburrito20 wrote: »

IxskullzxI wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265399/detailed-explanation-of-block-cost-changes/p1
Here is a link where wrobel goes over the formula for block cost. I don't think there is an actual hard cap technically. You're just limited by gear, enchants, cp, etc. His pts calculations are the cost for live now.

Thanks! I guess I need to read the whole post. I'm just concerned if I put reduced block cost trait on all the armor I can, and 100 CP in reduce block cost ( 25% is the max you can get from CP? ) that somewhere I'll get to the point where adding more isn't doing anything. Not sure if there was a max block cost you could have.

there's no hard cap but there's a certain point where you reach diminishing returns, in that after you can sustain your stam while blocking, adding more block cost reduction is going to prevent you from adding other things to improve your overall build.

Powerburrito20

Vangy wrote: »

@Powerburrito20

You can use my excel sheeet on P1 of this link. Its pretty self explanatory.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268522/heavy-armour-and-block-cost/p1

Looking at the excel sheet makes my tiny brain hurt. Is this mostly meant for PvP? I guess I'm just not getting the concept. I rarely solo anything, and almost never do PvP. My wife and I play together where she has the DPS and heals.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Powerburrito20 wrote: »

IxskullzxI wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265399/detailed-explanation-of-block-cost-changes/p1
Here is a link where wrobel goes over the formula for block cost. I don't think there is an actual hard cap technically. You're just limited by gear, enchants, cp, etc. His pts calculations are the cost for live now.

Thanks! I guess I need to read the whole post. I'm just concerned if I put reduced block cost trait on all the armor I can, and 100 CP in reduce block cost ( 25% is the max you can get from CP? ) that somewhere I'll get to the point where adding more isn't doing anything. Not sure if there was a max block cost you could have.

there's no hard cap but there's a certain point where you reach diminishing returns, in that after you can sustain your stam while blocking, adding more block cost reduction is going to prevent you from adding other things to improve your overall build.

Yeah, I " planned " on just adding enough block cost reduction until my stam. sustain while blocking is where I wanted it, I mean where I can manage it with pots, hitting EH abilities to regain, etc... Also was looking at using ULT. to drop block long enough to regain stam while incoming damage is low.

Bashev

Bashev wrote: »

Block cost reduction
Base block cost - 2160
3 glyphs - 609
1h/s passive 36% + 8% from defensive posture skill (these are additive 44%)
Sturdy 4% it is multiplicative (0.96^8) = 28%
Champion passive 25%
The final formula is (2160-609)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.28)*(1-0.44) = 1551*0.75*0.72*0.56 = 469

469 is the minimum block cost reduction. Sadly it cannot be achieved with black rose set because the sturdy trait is removed from the loot table for that set.

SquareSausage

From searching over the net for a while, all i found was 'sturdy is useless as it has diminishing returns', no-where could i find in what way is it diminishing?

Is it diminshing in the sense that say block cost 1000 stam, and you had a 3% block reduction, block would now cost 970 (1000x0.97), then you added another 3% reduction to get 941 (970x0.97), first drop was 30 (3%) of base, second drop was 29(2.9%).

Or does it work as the reduction is always from base value, so it would always be a percentage of 1000, rather than the current value?

paulsimonps

SquareSausage wrote: »

From searching over the net for a while, all i found was 'sturdy is useless as it has diminishing returns', no-where could i find in what way is it diminishing?

Is it diminshing in the sense that say block cost 1000 stam, and you had a 3% block reduction, block would now cost 970 (1000x0.97), then you added another 3% reduction to get 941 (970x0.97), first drop was 30 (3%) of base, second drop was 29(2.9%).

Or does it work as the reduction is always from base value, so it would always be a percentage of 1000, rather than the current value?

BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)*((100-Fortress)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Defensive Posture)/100)

There you go, that is the current formula for block cost. The current lowest you can get is 88 stamina per block and you can only be taken stamina every 0.5s. There is a diminishing return simply cause you are using a reductive multiplication of a percent.

SquareSausage

thank you @paulsimonps.

So sturdy is still useful as the diminishing returns are not that bad, I currently have sturdy on smalls and infused tri stats glyphs on large with reinforced shield.

Bashev

SquareSausage wrote: »

thank you @paulsimonps.

So sturdy is still useful as the diminishing returns are not that bad, I currently have sturdy on smalls and infused tri stats glyphs on large with reinforced shield.

ZoS changed the formula last patch and now is way better. Now the cost reduction of the block is calculate the same way as the dodge cost reduction.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Because of the way diminishing returns works with multiplicative cost reduction, you really want all 8 armor plus shield in sturdy. And preferrably gold. All of that is additive with itself (and last I checked, additive with defensive posture).

The additive part is good for cost reduction. I don't know how you get 88 block cost anymore. I think the fact that it is multiplicative stacking makes that impossible now?

Reorx_Holybeard

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Because of the way diminishing returns works with multiplicative cost reduction, you really want all 8 armor plus shield in sturdy. And preferrably gold. All of that is additive with itself (and last I checked, additive with defensive posture).

The additive part is good for cost reduction. I don't know how you get 88 block cost anymore. I think the fact that it is multiplicative stacking makes that impossible now?

Should still be possible:

• Gold Sturdy x8 = -32%
• CP = -25%
• Fortress = -36% (Skill)
• x3 Gold Jewelry Enchants = -609 (Item)
• Defensive Posture = -8% (Skill2)

Using:

BlockCost = (2160 * Sturdy * CP * Skill + Item) * Skill2

Gives me a minimum of 87 block cost. On our Build Editor if you find the "Block Cost" stat down on the right side and click the "..." button you can play with the specific calculation to see what you get in various cases.

paulsimonps

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Because of the way diminishing returns works with multiplicative cost reduction, you really want all 8 armor plus shield in sturdy. And preferrably gold. All of that is additive with itself (and last I checked, additive with defensive posture).

The additive part is good for cost reduction. I don't know how you get 88 block cost anymore. I think the fact that it is multiplicative stacking makes that impossible now?

Should still be possible:

• Gold Sturdy x8 = -32%
• CP = -25%
• Fortress = -36% (Skill)
• x3 Gold Jewelry Enchants = -609 (Item)
• Defensive Posture = -8% (Skill2)

Using:

BlockCost = (2160 * Sturdy * CP * Skill + Item) * Skill2

Gives me a minimum of 87 block cost. On our Build Editor if you find the "Block Cost" stat down on the right side and click the "..." button you can play with the specific calculation to see what you get in various cases.

(2160*((100-25)/100)*((100-8*4)/100)*((100-36)/100)-(3*203))*((100-8)/100)=88.34208

Its 88. I just checked it with the combat cloud addon as well as actually recording myself blocking and checking the difference in my stamina. It is 88 as the lowest possible block cost.

Reorx_Holybeard

paulsimonps wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Because of the way diminishing returns works with multiplicative cost reduction, you really want all 8 armor plus shield in sturdy. And preferrably gold. All of that is additive with itself (and last I checked, additive with defensive posture).

The additive part is good for cost reduction. I don't know how you get 88 block cost anymore. I think the fact that it is multiplicative stacking makes that impossible now?

Should still be possible:

• Gold Sturdy x8 = -32%
• CP = -25%
• Fortress = -36% (Skill)
• x3 Gold Jewelry Enchants = -609 (Item)
• Defensive Posture = -8% (Skill2)

Using:

BlockCost = (2160 * Sturdy * CP * Skill + Item) * Skill2

Gives me a minimum of 87 block cost. On our Build Editor if you find the "Block Cost" stat down on the right side and click the "..." button you can play with the specific calculation to see what you get in various cases.

(2160*((100-25)/100)*((100-8*4)/100)*((100-36)/100)-(3*203))*((100-8)/100)=88.34208

Its 88. I just checked it with the combat cloud addon as well as actually recording myself blocking and checking the difference in my stamina. It is 88 as the lowest possible block cost.

Ah thanks for the verification! Our build editor doesn't truncate decimals exactly like the game so it ends up being a little off like that sometimes.

Oakmontowls_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Block cost reduction
Base block cost - 2160
3 glyphs - 609
1h/s passive 36% + 8% from defensive posture skill (these are additive 44%)
Sturdy 4% it is multiplicative (0.96^8) = 28%
Champion passive 25%
The final formula is (2160-609)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.28)*(1-0.44) = 1551*0.75*0.72*0.56 = 469

469 is the minimum block cost reduction. Sadly it cannot be achieved with black rose set because the sturdy trait is removed from the loot table for that set.

Does black rose come in jewelry?

Bashev

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Block cost reduction
Base block cost - 2160
3 glyphs - 609
1h/s passive 36% + 8% from defensive posture skill (these are additive 44%)
Sturdy 4% it is multiplicative (0.96^8) = 28%
Champion passive 25%
The final formula is (2160-609)*(1-0.25)*(1-0.28)*(1-0.44) = 1551*0.75*0.72*0.56 = 469

469 is the minimum block cost reduction. Sadly it cannot be achieved with black rose set because the sturdy trait is removed from the loot table for that set.

Does black rose come in jewelry?

Nope. But now the minimum is 88 but Black rose doesnt come with sturdy trait

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

SquareSausage wrote: »

thank you @paulsimonps.

So sturdy is still useful as the diminishing returns are not that bad, I currently have sturdy on smalls and infused tri stats glyphs on large with reinforced shield.

yes its very useful. so useful that you want be a magica build and tank. magica dk is so great for tanking because you can pull everything in and talon. I have 10k stam only and never have a stamina issue aside from the rare circumstance that you have to roll alot. + with desert rose battle roar and pots i can spam magica all day while never running out of stamina its pretty funny

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

I'm bumping.

So how much % roughly does 1 gold reduced cost of block jewellery equal? Roughly, eg maybe 5% so maybe like just 1 and a bit sturdy.

Thinking of dropping my infused pieces (what's a couple 100 points), going all sturdy then having all magic recovery glyphs on jewellery.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I'm bumping.

So how much % roughly does 1 gold reduced cost of block jewellery equal? Roughly, eg maybe 5% so maybe like just 1 and a bit sturdy.

Thinking of dropping my infused pieces (what's a couple 100 points), going all sturdy then having all magic recovery glyphs on jewellery.

^^
Anyone?

paulsimonps

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I'm bumping.

So how much % roughly does 1 gold reduced cost of block jewellery equal? Roughly, eg maybe 5% so maybe like just 1 and a bit sturdy.

Thinking of dropping my infused pieces (what's a couple 100 points), going all sturdy then having all magic recovery glyphs on jewellery.

^^
Anyone?

It entirely depends, why are you trying to say how much % a flat number reduction gives? It depends on how much you get in all the other cost reduction sources. Just use the formula that we gave you and check how much your block cost would be for you. I personally go 8 Sturdy, 100p into Shadow Ward and 3 glyphs, and I still have magicka recovery at 1280. Try using Shadowrend 1p and Chokethorn 1p instead of the other monster sets that in reality adds very little.

Narvuntien

How low can i get ice stuff magicka block cost?

paulsimonps

Narvuntien wrote: »

How low can i get ice stuff magicka block cost?

(2160*((100-25)/100)*((100-7*4)/100)*((100-30)/100)-(3*203))=207.48

So 207 is the lowest possible for Frost Staffs.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I'm bumping.

So how much % roughly does 1 gold reduced cost of block jewellery equal? Roughly, eg maybe 5% so maybe like just 1 and a bit sturdy.

Thinking of dropping my infused pieces (what's a couple 100 points), going all sturdy then having all magic recovery glyphs on jewellery.

^^
Anyone?

It entirely depends, why are you trying to say how much % a flat number reduction gives? It depends on how much you get in all the other cost reduction sources. Just use the formula that we gave you and check how much your block cost would be for you. I personally go 8 Sturdy, 100p into Shadow Ward and 3 glyphs, and I still have magicka recovery at 1280. Try using Shadowrend 1p and Chokethorn 1p instead of the other monster sets that in reality adds very little.

I'm rocking all mag regen jewels, get 1500+ mag regen, works pretty well. Full sturdy.

You think it's worth dropping blood spawn? I think it's to good to drop.