Nerfing Willpower/Agility/Endurance --> Diversity

Zheg

Id almost rather see 7 piece sets to increase diversity. Go back and update some of the useless crafting ones to have unique 7 piece bonuses. Thatd shake things up.

Force-Siphon

Thanks for saying this blab, been thinking about it for a long time. These sets need a nerf, and I'm saying that as someone who loves willpower and even next patch would not change for PvP.

These sets aren't overpowered but allowing more build diversity would be much better and fun for the game.

Makkir

Just gonna say for the sake of objection, I think one point of the the powerful 3pc sets is to compensate for a missing 5th pc set. In other words, if the jewelry was scaled down to the other sets then everyone would be running with two 5pc bonuses.

I am not disagreeing with you however.

Nifty2g

I think what they did was because its only 3pc and that's it and doesn't come in body pieces is why it's stronger that most of the other bonuses out there. With that in mind there are a lot of build choices now to run instead of them but I think for the most part it's fine

Damn makkir beat me to it, I only read the OP

KenaPKK

More 1pc and 3pc sets is a good idea, especially spreading them to new armor pieces. The more small sets we have, the more build diversity we'll get, naturally, because you can make more combos with them.

Also what's with all the 1pc health Undaunted bonuses? Mixing those up would be an easy start imo.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

svartorn wrote: »

Nah, Champion system is awesome and allows for much more build diversity to supplement gear.

there is nothing diverse about everyone having 25% more damage, 25% more regen, and 25% more mitigation without any drawbacks. All champion system does is offer a crutch to bad builds that would have never worked in the old resource management meta. Champion system allows everyone to just stack damage gear because they know they can get resource regen from green tree. No trade-offs, no diversity. Crapeon system is a cancer in this game.

KenaPKK

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

Nah, Champion system is awesome and allows for much more build diversity to supplement gear.

there is nothing diverse about everyone having 25% more damage, 25% more regen, and 25% more mitigation without any drawbacks. All champion system does is offer a crutch to bad builds that would have never worked in the old resource management meta. Champion system allows everyone to just stack damage gear because they know they can get resource regen from green tree. No trade-offs, no diversity. Crapeon system is a cancer in this game.

True, but I think we're stuck with it. All hell would break loose if ZOS threatened to take it away. "Nuuuuu mah l33t statz!!"

Rohamad_Ali

They're not going to scrap the champion system so it's a waste of time going there . Seven piece sets sounds interesting but if you want crazy diversity just expand the toolbars to 9 lol . That'll mess with everyone's mind .

Mojmir

we need more one pc options that are powerful on their own,and not just weapons.unique and hard to obtain.

blabafat

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Someone doesnt have enough gold for robust agility rings haha

You're on to me! Help me out?

BurritoESO

I like the idea of bringing these sets on par with other sets to encourage diversity, but if they were nerfed they would have to be changed or and new effects to still be desirable by players

Sypher

Reduce the set bonuses down to regular levels, and add unique 4/5 piece bonuses to them OR add more 2-3 piece jewlery/armor options that compete or can substitute the current position agility/endurance/willpower has in the meta.

Mojomonkeyman

I actually like the concept of the current implementation and think it adds to diversity. When deciding a setup I often find myself considering 2p/3p agility or 2p endurance (instead of 5-5-2, 5-5-1) ONLY because of the higher stats which compensate somewhat for the crazy strong 5p set bonuses that got (re)introduced and include jewelry (viper, fasalla, transmutation, ...).

If those stats would be normalized there would be no reason to chose agility over lets say 3p morag tong or such.

KenaPKK

blabafat wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Someone doesnt have enough gold for robust agility rings haha

You're on to me! Help me out?

Hit me up when I'm back in game if you actually need pieces. Or hit my dudes up if you want easy teeth or gold farms in the meantime.

Lucky28

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Thanks for saying this blab, been thinking about it for a long time. These sets need a nerf, and I'm saying that as someone who loves willpower and even next patch would not change for PvP.

These sets aren't overpowered but allowing more build diversity would be much better and fun for the game.

i think this is a very backwards way of thinking. nerfing good sets so people will use something else is just irritating.

if you want build diversity why not ask to add new stuff and not take good stuff away?.

llllADBllll

Make Jewellery Craftable and open up the world of Custom Bling!

Francescolg

The first post is wrong, the only "special" thing this sets offer is the bonus +stamina/hp/magicka on set tier 1.

The pure number/amount of +weapon/spell damage/endu part of the sets IS perfectly in balance with other sets in the game!

+180 Spell damage on 3 pieces (tier 2) is practically the same value, as the spell damage on a 4-piece set with double spell damage, if we look solely at the spell/weapon damage. The same applies to stamina regen on tier 2, which is half the value of stamina regen, which we get on the other sets (marksman as one example), which offer stamina regen on tier 2 or tier 3. The value on the IC-sets is exactly the medium.

If anything can be called unbalanced about this sets, it is just the 1400 more stamina/magicka/hp. I can perfectly life with that.. The reason, why this sets are "just a little bit" better than others is simply that they want people to go to Imperial City, like for the other armors you can get there.

If any set should be looked at, it is the master-weapons, which is over the top and offes too much +spell/weapon damage, and, there is no other 1-piece sets in ESO, which is a disadvantage for all players that don't get access to 1-piece-set weapons, leaving 1 slot unused. There wouldn't be such a problem, if the game would offer more "1-piece set weapons", which drop from world-bosses/dolmens/etc. There should be a master weapon for MSA normal! Other games had such super-rare-drops (for everybody) to farm from certain bosses, ESO doesn't (except Lich King but that is not a 1-piece set).

Derra

I think you´re putting the cart before the horse here.

Willpower/Endurance/Agility are so popular mainly because ZOS in their wisdom decided to offer most new interesting sets without jewelry after the launch of IC. They were without alternative.
They also complement undaunted 2p sets really well alongside mealstrom weapons.

Then there is also the problem with having 2h weapons only offering 1 setslot (imo they should always have counted for two set items). There is no option to run two 5p bonuses + undaunted 2p for any build running 2handed weapons. This further enforces the IC jewelry sets as BIS for builds not using DW/S&B.

ZOS is slowly beginning to change this. In my opinion especially for stamina builds Agility/Endurance are no longer BIS if you´re not on a 2h/bow build.
In terms of vaible item sets to run 5p + 5p bonuses stamina is currently miles ahead of magica sadly (viper is the best thing since the invention of sliced bread really - marksman is awesome aswell, fasallas does better on stam than it does on magica imo).

Once magica gets 5p sets equally good to the ones stamina currently has i think the use of willp/end/agi will go down quite a bit more.

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

In terms of vaible item sets to run 5p + 5p bonuses stamina is currently miles ahead of magica sadly (viper is the best thing since the invention of sliced bread really - marksman is awesome aswell, fasallas does better on stam than it does on magica imo).

Once magica gets 5p sets equally good to the ones stamina currently has i think the use of willp/end/agi will go down quite a bit more.

This is so true.

The Stamina 5-pc sets are amazing. Let's start a list

Viper
Skirmisher
Dreugh King
Ravager
Fassalla (work best on stam)
Fury
Black Rose
etc...

Could you imagine a magicka equivalent of Dreugh king? That would be amazing.

Anazasi

Sypher just suggested something very similar but not as specific or about jewelry sets. My suggestion is to remove the stat pool damage modifier and replace it with regen mod based on stat pool. This would increase sustain and decrease damage across the board. Just my simple solution to a race that has gone on far to long.

Francescolg

Ishammael wrote: »

The Stamina 5-pc sets are amazing. Let's start a list

Viper
Skirmisher
Dreugh King
Ravager
Fassalla (work best on stam)
Fury
Black Rose
etc...

Could you imagine a magicka equivalent of Dreugh king? That would be amazing.

This sets are the main reason, why, since early 2014, I keep saying that stamina spec's have an unfair advantage in ESO..

The Devs know it but the only thing, which they did, was the Transmutation set and the crated equivalent of Hundings Rage. BOTH is not enough, we still need:

A 3-piece set with 2x magic damage
An equivalent to Dreugh King Slayer
A magicka equivalent to Ravager Set
Etc. Etc. Then and only then we can discuss about balance in this game..!

Xvorg

Francescolg wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The Stamina 5-pc sets are amazing. Let's start a list

Viper
Skirmisher
Dreugh King
Ravager
Fassalla (work best on stam)
Fury
Black Rose
etc...

Could you imagine a magicka equivalent of Dreugh king? That would be amazing.

This sets are the main reason, why, since early 2014, I keep saying that stamina spec's have an unfair advantage in ESO..

The Devs know it but the only thing, which they did, was the Transmutation set and the crated equivalent of Hundings Rage. BOTH is not enough, we still need:

A 3-piece set with 2x magic damage
An equivalent to Dreugh King Slayer
A magicka equivalent to Ravager Set
Etc. Etc. Then and only then we can discuss about balance in this game..!

Actually there are good sets for magicka, the problem is that they are divided into healing and dmg oriented. The healing oriented are quite good IMHO

Healer's Habit
Sanctuary
Meritorious service
SPC
Transmutation
Ansur


While the dmg oriented, having good stats, most of them do not get the CP160 level such as

Burning Spellweave
Necro
Destro Master
Sun
WMK
Embershield
Soulshine

Imagine a CP 160 Soulshine combined with Julianos and one Kena.

Of course, there are sets like IC sets or Vicious death which can be good for magicka, but no way they have a better 5 pc effect compared to those above.

bryanhaas

Lucky28 wrote: »

Don't really think they need to be nerfed. if you want more diversity, Jewelry crafting would be a much better option.

Personally, i'd get rid of Willpower in a heart beat if i could run 5 kags and 5 Alchemist.

I'd like 5 alch and 5 julianos.

Amdar_Godkiller

I feel nerfing Agility would have the opposite effect. It would make Stamina builds even more
reliant on Hunding's Rage for damage.

I am so tired of crafting that d*mn set!

Plus, Stamina builds aren't able to stack Stam as easily as maggers can stack their resource pool. 
Agility is therefore vital, since we're unable to use the extra slot provided by Dual Wield in PVP (Ironically, considering
its prevalence among magicka builds), without seriously crippling our ability to fight at range (sacrificing bow) or 
heal ourselves (sacrificing TH/Rally). 

Mako1132

Sypher wrote: »

Reduce the set bonuses down to regular levels, and add unique 4/5 piece bonuses to them OR add more 2-3 piece jewlery/armor options that compete or can substitute the current position agility/endurance/willpower has in the meta.

Bring the stats in line with normal sets, and allow these to count towards any set bonus from an IC set. Since most of those are just armor, you could bring in new set combinations. This way they would at the very least keep their value if not increase. Have always wanted every set to come in every piece of gear.

NordSwordnBoard

Expanding all sets past monster 2 and other 5 piece set would be a great idea.

Expanding sets to 7 & 9 items would be interesting; if done correctly could help add diversity to builds for all classes.

Including new 5+ piece sets in the next gear level cap increase would help ease the pain of replacing old sets if there's something new (& better) to chase after.

I like your ideas, but I think its more likely they keep raising the bar instead of lowering it in regards to all stats.

Asgari

Sypher wrote: »

Reduce the set bonuses down to regular levels, and add unique 4/5 piece bonuses to them OR add more 2-3 piece jewlery/armor options that compete or can substitute the current position agility/endurance/willpower has in the meta.

Id rather see the 2pc bonus dropped to the normal value and keep the 3pc the same. this way if you want to use this set its only worth using for the 3pc and that still lets it be viable, along with mixing at matching it.

KenaPKK

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Reduce the set bonuses down to regular levels, and add unique 4/5 piece bonuses to them OR add more 2-3 piece jewlery/armor options that compete or can substitute the current position agility/endurance/willpower has in the meta.

Id rather see the 2pc bonus dropped to the normal value and keep the 3pc the same. this way if you want to use this set its only worth using for the 3pc and that still lets it be viable, along with mixing at matching it.

Then using the 2 pieces would be pointless. There are builds out there using a 3pc and a 2pc of these sets, as well as some using 5pc other sets + 2pc of these.

I can't see how bringing their 2pc bonuses into a range where they aren't special is increasing diversity.

I'm in the camp looking for new sets of all sizes, although I'll warn against sets larger than 5pc. Sure they'd be new sets in the game, but they'd take up a lot of armor slots and prevent players from using other stuff with them. I.e. You'd end up with a bunch of very similar characters running around using them, especially while they're new.

What if we had branching sets? Like you had a concrete 3-4pc that had some unique utility effect, and then multiple unique pieces that can finish off the set, each granting different bonuses? Maybe you could even use multiple branches at the same time.

sluice

bryanhaas wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Don't really think they need to be nerfed. if you want more diversity, Jewelry crafting would be a much better option.

Personally, i'd get rid of Willpower in a heart beat if i could run 5 kags and 5 Alchemist.

I'd like 5 alch and 5 julianos.

Easy, in 5 steps:

1. Put 4 Clever Alchemist and 3 Julianos on the body.
2. Put the remaining 2 Julianos (Dual Wield) on your front bar.
3. Put the missing Clever Alchemist (Resto Staff?) on your back bar.
4. Drink Potion on back bar.
5. Switch back to front bar. Profit.

blabafat

loki547 wrote: »

Sabre was not running any Agility pieces when he beat everyone (Blab included) in the Legend duelling tourney. Just food for thought.

This reply is a bit late - I didn't see some of the comments until now.

As I said twice in the post, I am not saying that everyone runs Agility/Willpower. There are other sets that are viable, but that doesn't change the fact that MOST of the sets in the game are useless/not as viable compared to Agility/Willpower.

Sabre has a VERY strong and effective build that does not run Agility (if his build is still the same as I remember). But how many other builds are out there that can compare to Agility/Willpower? Unfortunately, that number goes down as the game progresses through the patches. Variety is diminishing.