Why Impen is Overrated

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Take a look at the 168,439 nerf threads, especially the nerf Radiant Oppression ones. Then take a look at all of the threads that say how impenetrable is a "must have" in Cyrodiil.

Did some of you ever stop to think that you're spending too much time worrying about bonus damage that doesn't happen all the time, and not enough worrying about either base damage or your own damage output?

If impen stops a max of 50% of crit damage and crit only happens a variable amount of time, let's say 50%, you're only stopping 50% of 50% of the damage on 50% of the incoming attacks.

That said, I know my math is off. That's not the point. The point is just to illustrate that too many people are worrying about BONUS damage and not normal damage.

Molag_Crow

Hmmm well the base damage is pretty high right now, yeah. I've just crafted a few pieces of Impen gear (2k crit resist on back bar) to test this out, just to see if Impen is really worth it, because I've spent months in the same set (kagrenac's) with divines, and because I can get blown up at times, I thought I'll give Impen a shot.

Sharee

The thing is, with the current meta steady damage won't kill you, spike damage will. And crits are responsible for the spikes.

Shader_Shibes

My stam DK feels far more squishier wearing 7 Impen and around 2k crit resist, than my stamblade who wears 2 impen with 1200 crit resist.

I have no idea why.

psychotic13

Sharee wrote: »

The thing is, with the current meta steady damage won't kill you, spike damage will. And crits are responsible for the spikes.

Exactly this.

Wollust

You have no clue if you say impen is overrated.

imredneckson

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at the 168,439 nerf threads, especially the nerf Radiant Oppression ones. Then take a look at all of the threads that say how impenetrable is a "must have" in Cyrodiil.

Did some of you ever stop to think that you're spending too much time worrying about bonus damage that doesn't happen all the time, and not enough worrying about either base damage or your own damage output?

If impen stops a max of 50% of crit damage and crit only happens a variable amount of time, let's say 50%, you're only stopping 50% of 50% of the damage on 50% of the incoming attacks.

That said, I know my math is off. That's not the point. The point is just to illustrate that too many people are worrying about BONUS damage and not normal damage.

I run at least 5 or more pieces with Impen ( at least 2k crit resistance is what people want ) and Radient Oppression hasn't been killing me much at all so it's not very high on my nerf o meter. Only thing that's been killing me constantly is stamina Nightblades ( No I'm not saying nerf them I like my Stamblade as it is thank you ) but for RD no that's not very high on my nerf list.

llSRRll

What would you guys say is a pretty good crit res these days? I'm sitting at 3200 but I feel like I give up too much to keep it that high. Im thinking about taking some of the 57 champ pts I have in Resistance and adding them to the overall damage res lines instead.

mtwiggz

Crit resist is critical. See what I did there!?

But really, resistance as a whole this patch is just terrible. My Healplar/Tankplar has 30k physical and spell resist, 3,500 crit resist and still gets hit for 8-10k from certain abilities from certain builds.

Crit resistance is very important none the less. I can out heal 5-8k hits all day, but when those big 10-15k hits come in and a pleasantly placed CC, it's over. Those massive crit hits are even worse on any of my DPS builds/characters. So anything to mitigate the incoming spike of damage is crucial.

llSRRll

mtwiggz wrote: »

Crit resist is critical. See what I did there!?

But really, resistance as a whole this patch is just terrible. My Healplar/Tankplar has 30k physical and spell resist, 3,500 crit resist and still gets hit for 8-10k from certain abilities from certain builds.

Crit resistance is very important none the less. I can out heal 5-8k hits all day, but when those big 10-15k hits come in and a pleasantly placed CC, it's over. Those massive crit hits are even worse on any of my DPS builds/characters. So anything to mitigate the incoming spike of damage is crucial.

I was wondering why my survivability is trash now, I felt like this since the patch smh. I just thought I was going crazy. I used to 1vX people all the time and it would take them forever to kill me now I get trashed fairly easily.

Deceptive_Yoshi

I stack it if there's an unusual amount of stamblade gankers but otherwise it's probably better to sprinkle it on your gear with some cp into impen as well.

ScooberSteve

Yes it is essential. Such a scrub

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Wollust wrote: »

You have no clue if you say impen is overrated.

Or we're playing different games. My crit resist is 68 ... not 6800 ... 68. I don't die that much and frequently am one of the most survivable people on the battlefield, mostly due to being a Templar.

Like anyone else if I am completely unaware of an incoming attack I'll probably die, but that's rare. With even 1 second of notice I can pop mist form and mitigate 75% of all damage. I can also Breath of Life back to full health from even the largest hits because the Vampire passive Undeath slows down damage dealt to me. I'm often left with just a few health points after a crit and then I'm at full health in under a second. I also stack magicka instead of spell power and use reduce cost champion points so BoL doesn't cause that much.

On second thought maybe I should have made this thread, here's a way to make crit resistance not matter.

Molag_Crow

As a Mag Templar with 27k Health, 20k+ spell resist and physical (buffed) and 2k crit resist, I just got hit for a 17k radiant destruction, so yes you're right, it's quite overrated in a sense that base damage is more dangerous than the chance of somebody critting huge.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Molag_Crow wrote: »

As a Mag Templar with 27k Health, 20k+ spell resist and physical (buffed) and 2k crit resist, I just got hit for a 17k radiant destruction, so yes you're right, it's quite overrated in a sense that base damage is more dangerous than the chance of somebody critting huge.

Exactly this. Add in an ice comet and an RD hitting at the same time I can do 20k non crit damage in the blink of an eye even with the Cyrodiil battle spirit reduction. It really doesn't matter if I happen to crit because 80% of players are dead already.

Molag_Crow

BUT saying that, Impen is still strong... so yeah.

Ragnaroek93

Yes it's overrated, just drop it and go infused/divines

GreenSoup2HoT

Impen is huge.. i have on currently 1770 impen which is 26.8% critical damage reduction, add in the fact i have 15% reduction into my cp.. then i still got hit by a massive 21k meteor the other day. I am a vampire though.. but none the less Impen is pretty significant.

I've started to use Mist Form on my back bar even as a stamblade. After that Meteor, i aint having any of that :P .

Mac10murda

Radiant is a channel so all the damage from it shows up on one attack on death recap, so that's why it shows those high numbers in recap

Molag_Crow

Well I just dropped (not deleted or anything) my gold Kagrenacs divines, for purple Kag's impen and it is making a slight difference, I think...

juhasman

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

My stam DK feels far more squishier wearing 7 Impen and around 2k crit resist, than my stamblade who wears 2 impen with 1200 crit resist.

I have no idea why.

Cloak?

Molag_Crow

Mac10murda wrote: »

Radiant is a channel so all the damage from it shows up on one attack on death recap, so that's why it shows those high numbers in recap

Of course, but still, we're saying that the base damage/channeled damage is big enough anyway to not worry about reducing all those crits you're taking ^^

raasdal

Impen is indeed overrated in the sense that people just go for it without thought, since everybody says that is what you need to do.

I have heard Sorcs wearing impen, not realising you cannot crit shields. My magblade is wearing Infused and divines. Why? Because it really does not matter if you hit me crit or not. Due to playstyle i either kill you in 2 seconds, i get away or i die. The end.

Also, there is Azura Star no cp. In No CP campaign a good crit rating is 25%. Whic means that Impen is worth nothing at all, compared to a CP campaign. People tend to forget that - even the ones actually playing no cp.

Impen is good for many builds, but it is far from the "go to" solution it is puffed up to be.

Ampnode

Listen to this guy, please. Dropping impen will give me easier kills. I'd love for my 8K~ Dizzying Swings to reach 12K~.

AriokoSan

I recently changed from divines to impen and for me I can notice a difference. I'm lasting that little bit longer in fights and sometimes that little extra time makes a big difference.

raasdal

Ampnode wrote: »

Listen to this guy, please. Dropping impen will give me easier kills. I'd love for my 8K~ Dizzying Swings to reach 12K~.

This is a good example of what i described the post before, about the inbred idea that impen is somehow OP for everything.

On a shieldef mag sorc your dizzying swing will hit for 8k no matter what. Against my Mag NB you will never hit me with that Swing. IF you do, i will be dead no matter if you hit me for 8k or 12k.

Finally - from 8k to 12k? Really? You think that the difference between 7 pcs impen and no impen is 50% damage increase / 33% damage redux on full damage?

I will do some quick math behind it, to show how wrong that statement is.

You have an 8k crit swing against full impen. That is your statement. Assuming standard 50% crit damage and an app. 25% redux from impen (7 pcs.) that means you did 6400 normal damage, and got 1600 crit bonus.

Now same with no impen at all. You will hit for full crit, which would be a 3200 crit bonus, making it total a whopping 9,6k swing.

So NO - your 8k swing will not suddenly become a 12k swing because your target is not wearing impen.

Class dismissed...

Lokey0024

https://youtu.be/I3wqbhXlaAM

This is why. You could say skill is the equalizer, but if you get caught in a combo that crits you're smoked.

17k take flight btw ;D

raasdal

Lokey0024 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/I3wqbhXlaAM

This is why. You could say skill is the equalizer, but if you get caught in a combo that crits you're smoked.

17k take flight btw ;D

This video shows nothing at all about the relevance of impen. No one even knows if ppl here are wearing impen or not.

If you get hit by a crit combo of swing and take flight like that, you die no matter what.

come on. As i have just shown, wearing impen does not make you immune to crits.

DRXHarbinger

Stam player health 18k.

Ambush 12k, incap strike 18k, sup attack 7k, killers blade 11k, plus a viper sting 4k in there somewhere.

These figures fully buffed crit numbers which mine hit for, with pvp reduction taken into account.

Now impen makes you survive that that? Only shuffle can save you, not some crappy trait.

No trait can save you from an Alpha ganker, perhaps heavy reinforced and tons of health but you get the gist.

Eshelmen

mtwiggz wrote: »

Crit resist is critical. See what I did there!?

But really, resistance as a whole this patch is just terrible. My Healplar/Tankplar has 30k physical and spell resist, 3,500 crit resist and still gets hit for 8-10k from certain abilities from certain builds.

Crit resistance is very important none the less. I can out heal 5-8k hits all day, but when those big 10-15k hits come in and a pleasantly placed CC, it's over. Those massive crit hits are even worse on any of my DPS builds/characters. So anything to mitigate the incoming spike of damage is crucial.

My Magplar has around the same stats and I rarely get hit harder than 5k.
The guy who hit you with that must have top tier damage.

Remember, 1VX builds are more rare than DPS builds. More people want to use their Kena and get that 5k-6k spell/weapon damage tier over anything else.

Ahzek

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Stam player health 18k.

Ambush 12k, incap strike 18k, sup attack 7k, killers blade 11k, plus a viper sting 4k in there somewhere.

These figures fully buffed crit numbers which mine hit for, with pvp reduction taken into account.

Now impen makes you survive that that? Only shuffle can save you, not some crappy trait.

No trait can save you from an Alpha ganker, perhaps heavy reinforced and tons of health but you get the gist.

The only stam players with 18k HP are the gankers themselves or scrubs, so nothing is going to save them in the first place.
Most decent stam builds i encounter run between 25 and 30k HP, which is more than enough to survive just about any alpha stike damage, but only due to the power of impen.
In a non gank scenario however impen becomes less important. Well fitted nowadays fullfills a very similar role, by allowing for way more dodgerolling and thus negating sone damage entirely, but it is still vulnerable to certain damage combos, especially including meteor or RD.