The PvP Justice System Concept, now with opt-out

Dubhliam

Introduction

I would like to share with you my in-depth vision of the PvP Justice System.

There have been many threads regarding this, and many heated debates about whether this system should or should not be implemented.
Also, I am well aware of the futility of beating a dead horse. I am not here to talk about that, general opinions have already been made known in those other threads.

Certain things will be done in the game that I have already taken into account when designing this idea, such as a fully scaling Tamriel. This will set a fair and competitive foundation for many future PvP aspects of the game such as dueling, arenas and PvP Justice.
My opinion is that the Iron Wheel guild story line and skill line should come as an extension of the Dark Brotherhood DLC, since it it lacking true endgame content. It is ultimately to ZOS to look at the revenue of each particular DLC, and decide whether they will upgrade some of the past DLC, or sell it as a part of a new DLC.
I am using names like Outlaw, Enforcer, the Iron Wheel guild, Prison etc. as general terms that most forum users will recognize and understand instantly. That does not mean some other names could not be given that are more appropriate.
Opted-in players will be referred as Outlaws (or Outlaw Criminals), while opted-out players will be referred as Criminals.

I would like this thread to revolve around improving and/or finding ways to exploit this particular suggestion you are about to read, so that we, as a community, can help potentially improve the current Justice System by reducing the amount of time and resources ZOS would need to implement such a system.

By all means, ask anything that comes to mind, comment away, and please try to be constructive in your replies.

Dubhliam

General

• Guards and Enforcers cannot be attacked unless getting attacked by them.
• The "prevent attacking innocents" option is now turned on by default for new characters. When the "you cannot attack this target..." notification is triggered for the first time, a tutorial is also shown that clearly states attacking innocents is a crime and will grant you a bounty along with instructions where to turn off the prevent attacking innocents option.
• The "prevent attacking innocents" option also prevents players from healing or buffing players engaged in Justice Combat that are not in the same group. Does not apply in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, or when becoming a Wanted.
• The "Auto loot stolen items" option now also applies to items on display.
• Enforcers cannot turn off the "prevent attacking innocents option" and cannot loot stolen goods, pickpocket, and enter any Trespassing area, as well as Outlaw refuges, the Thieves Den or Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary.
• Only Enforcers may enter the Iron Wheel Headquarters.
• All the locked houses are now marked as Trespassing areas.
• Only NPCs can spot crimes.
• Players can no longer be seen by other players while in stealth unless those players are grouped together. Does not apply in Cyrodiil or Imperial City.
• Enforcers cannot use their Accost skill while in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or any Group dungeon, Trial or Arena.
• Outlaws cannot interact with a wayshrine when engaging into a combat with a Guard or Enforcer. It becomes interactable again after not receiving damage for a few seconds.
• Patrolling NPC Outlaws - counterparts to Guards with Clairvoyance are added in front of Refuge, Thieves Den and Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary entrances. Their patrol routes avoid Guard patrol routes.
• Every other patrolling Guard comes with a Hound and they share aggro. Hounds chase players without resetting, but are killable. Hounds can also swim, and attack players in deep water.
• Edicts are disabled while in Justice combat.
• The Veil of Shadows passive now has an additional rank which prevents the new Enforcer Criminal Awareness passive from showing the overhead Outlaw icon unless at close range.
• Outlaw Criminals now gain an additional option in the "pay bounty" dialogue: Go to Court.
• Scales of Pitiless Justice DB passive now additionally reduce damage taken from Enforcers by 5/10/15/20%.
• Padomaic Sprint DB passive now also grants Major Evasion and triggers when becoming a Wanted as well.
• Sythis' Touch 5th piece gains an additional effect: Your attacks against Guards and Enforcers gain 387 additional Weapon and Spell damage.
• Syvarra's Scales 4th piece bonus now reads: Add max Magicka, Take 20% less damage from Guards and Enforcers.

Dubhliam

Heat levels

• Heat levels now apply a bounty modifier similar to Tel Var modifier
• The multipliers for the Disreputable, Notorious, Fugitive and Wanted heats are 1,2,3 and 4 respectively.

DISREPUTABLE

• As long as the Outlaw's heat is Disreputable, the Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforcers to see an Outlaw icon overhead the Outlaw. The icon is not visible while the Outlaw is in stealth.

NOTORIOUS

• The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a notification that there has been a crime in <Area Name> when an Outlaw with a Notorious bounty or higher gets spotted doing a crime. Character names are not mentioned.
• Hounds can "sniff out" Notorious Criminals from greater distances (they have a larger detection radius than Guards). They trigger the "pay bounty", but their accompanied Guard provides the dialogue.

FUGITIVE

• Outlaw Criminals will no longer be marked as "attack on sight" while having the Fugitive status.
• The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a Large circle on the map for 30 seconds when an Outlaw becomes Fugitive, indicating an approximate location where the crime was committed. Each subsequent crime spotted while Fugitive will refresh the circle and reduce it's radius.
• Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance). This cannot be triggered by Outlaws (opted-in players).

WANTED

• The highest heat level- Wanted can be only triggered by Outlaw Criminals, by choosing the "Flee dialogue" when accosted by a Guard or Enforcer. This does not apply in Outlaw Prison, which is the only Trespassing area accessible by Enforcers - where Outlaws are constantly marked as Wanted.
• This level is reserved only for Heat. As soon as the Heat is depleted in time or by using Edicts, the Bounty level is reverted to Fugitive, no matter how high the Bounty is.
• If the Criminal is an Outlaw, the Flee option clearly indicates he or she will be flagged for PvP.
• If the Criminal Awareness passive is maxed, Enforcers can see the exact location of a Wanted Outlaw on the map indicated by an Outlaw icon. If the Wanted enters stealth, the icon reverts into a circle on the map on the last non-stealthed location for 30 seconds.
• Players with the Wanted heat are marked for PvP, making them attackable by Guards and Enforcers.
• A Wanted can only attack Guards and/or Enforcers that have dealt damage to him/her.

Dubhliam

Becoming an Enforcer

• Requires access to the Dark Brotherhood DLC.
• During the Partners in Crime quest, if the player returns the Giovessen Skull when caught by Chief inspector Rhanbiq, the inspector approaches the player and offers the player to join the Iron Wheel or get thrown in jail. If the player chooses to join, he or she obtains the "Answering the Call" quest.
• During the Voices in the Dark quest, the player now gets an option to report Amelie Crowe to a nearby Guard instead of killing an innocent. Doing so, the player obtains the "Answering the call" quest.
• The quest "Answering the Call" can also be obtained by interacting with Guards or in the Collectibles Menu - DLC tab - Dark Brotherhood.
• Obtaining the quest "Answering the Call" automatically abandons the "Partners in Crime" and "Voices in the Dark" quests.
• Players that have the "Answering the Call" quest active, or are members of the Iron Wheel cannot start the "Partners in Crime" and "Voices in the Dark" quests.
• Members of the Thieves Guild and/or Dark Brotherhood cannot receive the "Answering the Call" quest. To be able to receive the quest, the player is given an option to abandon those guilds. There is an equivalent, reversed process for Enforcers that want to become members of the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. Skill line levels and skill points do not reset when abandoning a guild.

Becoming an Outlaw

• Criminals can toggle the Outlaw status by interacting with a Fence. This toggle is available to players without an active bounty and can happen once every 20 hours. Outlaws are "opted-in" for PvP Justice. Pirharri the Smuggler assistant cannot be used to toggle this status.
• Wanted Outlaws are able to damage and kill Guards.
• Outlaws have the option to go to Court while being accosted, and may also choose to enter Veteran Heists or Sacraments.

Dubhliam

Enforcer activities

• There is an extensive Iron Wheel storyline, during which you will encounter many new NPC characters, along with some TG and DB NPCs like Walks Softly, Silver Claw, Kor and Hildegard.
• Inside the Iron Wheel headquarters Enforcers can take repeatable quests that reward participation in the Justice System.
• Certain repeatable quests send the Enforcer in search of missing persons (NPCs) or wanted criminals (NPCs) that the Enforcer must find with vague descriptions and sketches. Note: some of those NPCs will turn aggressive when interacted with. Finding two or three missing persons before handing in will grant better rewards.
• Certain repeatable quests require the Enforcer to accost an Outlaw and collect the bounty. Collecting a set amount of X bounty from one or more Outlaws gives a better reward. Killing a Wanted grants an even better reward.
• At a certain level of the Iron Wheel skill line, Enforcers are able to mark themselves as "On-Duty" in the Activity Finder from the Group Menu. This puts them in a queue to participate in Justice System instances.
• There are many achievements tied to upholding the law like killing a Wanted with a bounty over 5000 gold.

Dubhliam

Iron Wheel skill line
Active skills
ACCOST CRIMINAL (base)

• A single target skill with range 15 meters, castable on Outlaws with bounties for 2500 magicka.
• When cast on a Disreputable or Notorious Outlaw, forces the "Pay bounty" dialog.
• When cast on a Wanted Outlaw, reduces the player's Movement Speed by 30% for 12 seconds.

SEIZE CRIMINAL (morph)

• Now stuns Wanted players instead for 12 seconds. The target can take 596 damage before the stun is broken. After the effect ends, the target is snared by 30% for 3 seconds.

BUST CRIMINAL (morph)

• Now costs stamina and also applies targets with Major Fracture, Major Breach and Minor Maim, reducing their resistances and damage done for 12 seconds.

Passive Skills
CRIMINAL AWARENESS

• Enforcers become more aware of criminal activity, unlocking an overhead Outlaw icon for Disreputable Outlaws, <crime in Area> notifications for Notorious Outlaws, reported crime radius for Fugitive Outlaws and map Outlaw icon for Wanted Outlaws.

UNYIELDING GUARD

• Reduces damage taken from Wanted players by 10/20/30/40%.

VIGILANT WATCH

• Increases Detection Radius by 0,5/1/1,5/2 meters.

RIGHTEOUS BLOWS

• Attacking a Wanted reduces their healing received by 10/20/30/40% for 15 seconds.

DETERMINED

• Gain 5/10/15/20 Spell and Weapon damage every 3 seconds while in combat against a Wanted, stacking up to 10 times.

Dubhliam

Veteran Heists and sacraments

• Outlaws can now do TG and DB daily quests in either Veteran or normal modes. The mode is chosen while interacting with the quest giver.
• Veteran Heists and Sacraments can only be entered by a single Outlaw, not by groups, and not by regular Criminals.
• Enforcers may burn down barrels and other containers where Outlaws can hide or are currently hidden.
• Veteran quests cannot be abandoned while inside the instance. If abandoned before handing in, the Veteran option is no longer available that day.
• If the timer in the instance reaches zero, an On-Duty Enforcer is assigned and gains the option to teleport into the instance.

Dubhliam

Outlaw prison

• By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
• Outlaws are automatically grouped upon entering, without the ability to leave group or disband.
• Outlaws lose all their stolen items when going to prison. All lockpicks and pardon Edicts get marked as Stolen and are stored along with other stolen items into a random container inside the Prison which cannot be looted by other players.
• A "Spare Guard Uniform" disguise can be found in one random container inside Prison, that can be worn as a tabard. Wearing it enables the player to be unnoticed by Guards or Enforcers. Finding it unlocks an achievement that grants the Guard costume (vanity only).
• When the heat and bounty of an Outlaw wears off, a portal is spawned inside the cell that takes the player out of Prison. The portal is not visible to and interactable by other players.
• Getting seen by a Guard or Enforcer while inside the Prison automatically locks your cell door permanently.
• The Prison dungeon has 6 cells and can host up to 6 Outlaw players, and up to 6 Enforcers that can port to the instance if it goes to high alert.
• Inside each cell there is exactly 1 stolen lockpick that can be found to pick the cell lock with. Taking the lockpick starts the shareable "Prison Break" quest. Players that open their cell doors may also go and pick the doors of other locked players, but cannot enter cells other than their own.
• The area outside the cell room is marked as Trespassing to Outlaws, marking them constantly as Wanted. This is the only Trespassing area Enforcers are able to visit, and Trespassing does not apply to them.
• Leaving the room with the cells automatically starts a visible dungeon timer that is shared among all Outlaws that leave the cell room. Getting noticed outside the cell room by a guard subtracts 1 minute from the timer. After the time expires, the instance goes to High Alert and On-Duty Enforcers get a queue notification to enter that instance.
• The first part of the instance is crawling with guards, some of which have Clairvoyance. The second part of the dungeon is purely PvE, and has no NPC Guards. Once inside the second part of Prison, it is impossible to return to the first part of the Prison.
• To get to the exit, Outlaws have to beat a few mini bosses and a Final boss in the second, PvE part of the prison. Monsters are also aggressive to Enforcers. The Final Boss is stationary, and clairvoyant. The Minibosses cannot be reset once aggroed, and will follow any players still alive until killed.
• Players may only be resurrected by other Outlaws while a Miniboss or Boss fight is ongoing, and there in no "wayshrine respawn point" if the group wipes.

* - this is true provided Dueling Arenas are implemented at the same time or before implementing PvP Justice.

Dubhliam

PvP Justice rewards
Outlaw rewards

• The Haggling passive from TG skill line now grants 10/20/30/40% bonus (from 2/4/6/8%).
• Veteran Sacraments and Heists rewards often contain Epic, and rarely contain Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Completing the "Prison Break" quest also rewards such set pieces. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
  Bahraha's Curse Syvarra's Scales Shadow Dancer Darkstride Night Mother Sithis' Touch

Enforcer rewards

• Enforcers don't gain gold from accosting or killing Outlaws. The amount of the bounty does count towards certain achievements though.
• Joining the Iron Wheel guild, Enforcers get access to dailies and repeatable quests that reward participation in Justice System activities. The first completed On-duty activity often rewards Epic, and seldom rewards Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Subsequent completions only reward experience in decreased amounts. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
  Bahraha's Curse Syvarra's Scales Magicka Furnace Fiord's Legacy Akatosh's Blessed Armor Jyggalag's Order (new*)

Jyggalag's Order
This set comes in any weight.
2 piece bonus: adds Magicka regeneration
3 piece bonus: adds 4% healing taken
4 piece bonus: adds maximum Health
5 piece bonus: Jyggalag's Blessing
Immunity duration after using Break Free increased by 3 seconds.
When breaking free from a Fugitive effect, gain Major Expedition and Major Berserk for 4 seconds.

Dubhliam

Change log
July 9

- changed the following line in the General section:

• The "prevent attacking innocents" option also prevents players from healing or buffing other players engaged in Justice Combat that are not in the same group. Does not apply in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, or when becoming a Fugitive.

- added the following lines in the General Section:

• The "Prevent auto-looting stolen items" now also applies to items on display.
• Only Enforcers may enter the Iron Wheel Headquarters.

July10

- added the following line in the General Section:

• All the locked houses are now marked as Trespassing areas.

- added the following line in the Heat Levels Section:

• The Flee option clearly indicates you will be flagged for PvP.

July 11

- added the following line in the Heat Levels Section:

• Heat levels now apply a bounty modifier similar to Tel Var modifier.

July 12

-completely revisited the Notorious and Fugitive Heat Levels and added a new one, and re-allocated some of these lines to their respective fields:

• The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a Large circle on the map for 30 seconds when an Outlaw becomes Notorious Fugitive, indicating an approximate location where the crime was committed. Each subsequent crime spotted while Notorious Fugitive will refresh the circle and reduce it's radius.
• Additionally, As long as the Outlaw's heat is Notorious or higher, the Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforcers to see an Outlaw icon overhead the Outlaw. The icon is not visible while in stealth.
• The highest heat level- Fugitive Wanted can now be only triggered by the "Flee dialogue" when accosted by a guard or Enforcer while being Disreputable or Notorious having a bounty. This does not apply in Trespassing areas.
• The Flee option clearly indicates you will be flagged for PvP.
• If the Criminal Awareness passive is maxed, Enforcers can see the exact location of a Fugitive Wanted on the map indicated by an Outlaw icon. If the Fugitive Wanted enters stealth, the icon reverts into a circle on the map on the last non-stealthed location for 30 seconds.
• Players with the Fugitive Wanted heat are marked for PvP, making them attackable by Guards and Enforcers.
• A Fugitive Wanted can only attack Guards and/or Enforcers that have dealt damage to him/her.

-switched all the instances of the word "Fugitive" with the word "Wanted" in all other sections
-added this line in the Heat Levels section:

• The multipliers for the Disreputable, Notorious, Fugitive and Wanted heats are 1,2,3 and 4 respectively.

-changed this line in the General section:

• Players now gain an additional option in the "pay bounty" dialogue: Go to prison Court.

- changed these lines in the Outlaw Prison section:

• By choosing the "Go to prisonCourt" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, players are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
• Outlaws lose all their stolen items when going to prison, but do not pay the bounty, which gets cleared. All lockpicks and pardon Edicts get marked as Stolen and are stored along with other stolen items into a random container inside the Prison which cannot be looted by other players.
• The "wait-out sentence" timer is proportional to the bounty. When the timer reaches zeroWhen the heat and bounty of a player wears off, a portal is spawned inside the cell that takes the player out of Prison. The portal is not visible to and interactable by other players.
• Getting a bounty seen by a Guard while inside the Prison automatically disables the "wait-out sentence" timer, and the bounty gets increased by the remaining time.locks your cell door permanently.

-added this line in the Outlaw Prison section:

• A "Spare Guard Uniform" disguise can be found in one random container inside Prison, that can be worn as a tabard. Wearing it enables the player to be unnoticed by Guards or Enforcers. Finding it unlocks an achievement that grants the Guard costume (vanity only).

July 16

-changed this line in the Iron Wheel skill line section:

• Enforcers become more aware of criminal activity, unlocking notifications/an overhead Outlaw icon for Disreputable Outlaws, <crime in Area> notifications for Notorious Outlaws, reported crime radius for Fugitive Outlaws and map area/map Outlaw icon for Wanted Outlaws.

-also changed and moved these lines in the Heat level section to correspond to the revised Criminal Awareness passive:

• The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a notification that there has been a crime in <Area Name> when an Outlaw becomes Disreputable with a Notorious bounty or higher gets spotted doing a crime. Character names are not mentioned.
• As long as the Outlaw's heat is Notorious or higherDisrepurable, the Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforcers to see an Outlaw icon overhead the Outlaw. The icon is not visible while the Outlaw is in stealth.

-added these lines in the General section:

• Patrolling NPC Outlaws - counterparts to Guards with Clairvoyance are added in front of Refuge, Thieves Den and Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary entrances. Their patrol routes avoid Guard patrol routes.
• Edicts are disabled while in Justice combat.
• The Veil of Shadows passive now has an additional rank which prevents the new Enforcer Criminal Awareness passive from showing the overhead Outlaw icon unless at close range.

-added this line in the Heat levels section under WANTED:

• This level is reserved only for Heat. As soon as the Heat is depleted in time or by using Edicts, the Bounty level is reverted to Fugitive, no matter how high the Bounty is.

-added this line in the Veteran Heists and Sacraments section:

• Enforcers may burn down barrels and other containers where Outlaws can hide or are currently hidden.

-added an actual summation in the TL;DR section:

• The Justice System remains intact as long as the Outlaw has no bounty. Other PCs cannot interact with or spot Outlaw crimes.
• When the Outlaw gets spotted doing a crime by an NPC, and has a bounty, he is eligible to be accosted by Enforcers (pops the "pay bounty" dialogue). Higher bounties help Enforcers to locate Outlaws more easily.
• Only by choosing the "flee" option in the "pay bounty dialogue" can Outlaws get marked for PvP fights, and that mark is disabled when the Heat (not bounty) is depleted.
• Other notable additions are mortal Guards, new- PvP mode for Heists and Sacraments, the new Prison instance and a law enforcer storyline.

July 21

- added this line in the Introduction section:

• Opted-in players will be referred as Outlaws (or Outlaw Criminals), while opted-out players will be referred as Criminals.

- changed this line in the General section:

• Guards are no longer immortal, but and Enforcers cannot be attacked unless getting attacked by them.
• PlayersOutlaw Criminals now gain an additional option in the "pay bounty" dialogue: Go to Court.

- added this line in the General section:

• Every other patrolling Guard comes with a Hound and they share aggro. Hounds chase players without resetting, but are killable. Hounds can also swim, and attack players in deep water.

- added these lines in the Heat levels section:

• Hounds can "sniff out" Notorious Criminals from greater distances (they have a larger detection radius than Guards). They trigger the "pay bounty", but their accompanied Guard provides the dialogue.
• Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance).
  
• Outlaw Criminals will no longer be marked as "attack on sight" while having the Fugitive status.
  

- changed these lines in the Heat levels section:

• The highest heat level- Wanted can be only triggered by Outlaw Criminals, by choosing the "Flee dialogue" when accosted by a Guard or Enforcer while having a bounty. This does not apply in Trespassing areasOutlaw Prison, which is the only Trespassing area accessible by Enforcers - where Outlaws are constantly marked as Wanted.
• If the Criminal is an Outlaw, the Flee option clearly indicates youhe or she will be flagged for PvP.
• If the Criminal Awareness passive is maxed, Enforcers can see the exact location of a Wanted Outlaw on the map indicated by an Outlaw icon. If the Wanted enters stealth, the icon reverts into a circle on the map on the last non-stealthed location for 30 seconds.
• Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance). This cannot be triggered by Outlaws (opted-in players).

- added another section just below Becoming an Enforcer section called "Becoming an Outlaw":

• Criminals can toggle the Outlaw status by interacting with a Fence. This toggle is available to players without an active bounty and can happen once every 20 hours. Outlaws are "opted-in" for PvP Justice. Pirharri the Smuggler assistant cannot be used to toggle this status.
• Wanted Outlaws are able to damage and kill Guards.
• Outlaws have the option to go to Court while being accosted, and may also choose to enter Veteran Heists or Sacraments.

- changed these lines in the Iron Wheel skill line section:

• A single target skill with range 15 meters, castable on playersOutlaws with bounties for 2500 magicka.
• When cast on a Disreputable or Notorious playerOutlaw, forces the "Pay bounty" dialog.
• When cast on a Wanted playerOutlaw, reduces the player's Movement Speed by 30% for 12 seconds.

- changed these lines in the Veteran Heists and Sacraments section:

• Outlaws can now do TG and DB daily quests can now be done in either Veteran or normal modes. The mode is chosen while interacting with the quest giver.
• Veteran Heists and Sacraments can only be entered by a single playerOutlaw, not by groups and not by regular Criminals.

- changed these lines in the Outlaw prison section:

• By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, playersOutlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
• Outlaws are automatically grouped upon entering, without the ability to leave group or disband.
• When the heat and bounty of a playerand Outlaw wears off, a portal is spawned inside the cell that takes the player out of Prison. The portal is not visible to and interactable by other players.
• Getting seen by a Guard or Enforcer while inside the Prison automatically locks your cell door permanently.
• Inside each cell there is exactly 1 stolen lockpick that can be found to pick the cell lock with. Taking the lockpick starts the shareable "Prison Break" quest. Players that open their cell doors may also go and pick the doors of other locked players, but cannot enter cells other than their own.
• The area outside the cell room is marked as Trespassing to Outlaws, marking them constantly as Wanted. This is the only Trespassing area Enforcers are able to visit, and Trespassing does not apply to them.
• Leaving the room with the cells automatically starts a visible dungeon timer that is shared among all Outlaws that leave the cell room. Getting noticed outside the cell room by a Guard or Enforcer subtracts 1 minute from the timer. After the time expires, the instance goes to High Alert and On-Duty Enforcers get a queue notification to enter that instance.
• Players may only be resurrected by other Outlaws while a Miniboss or Boss fight is ongoing, and there in no "wayshrine respawn point" if the group wipes.

- changed and added these lines in the TL;DR section:

• The Justice System remains mainly intact as long as the Outlaw has no bounty. Other PCs cannot interact with or spot Outlaw crimes.
• Players have an option to mark themselves as "Outlaws", opting them in for participation in PvP Justice activities. Regular Criminals are opted out.
• Only By choosing the "flee" option in the "pay bounty dialogue" can Outlaws can get marked for PvP fights, and that mark is disabled when the Heat (not bounty) is depleted.
• Other notable additions are [s[mortal Guards[/s]Hounds (mortal Guard companions), new- PvP mode for Heists and Sacraments, the new Prison instance and a law enforcer storyline.

TL;DR

• The Justice System remains mainly intact as long as the Outlaw has no bounty. Other PCs cannot interact with or spot crimes.
• Players have an option to mark themselves as "Outlaws", opting them in for participation in PvP Justice activities. Regular Criminals are opted out.
• When the Outlaw gets spotted doing a crime by an NPC, and has a bounty, he is eligible to be accosted by Enforcers (pops the "pay bounty" dialogue). Higher bounties help Enforcers to locate Outlaws more easily.
• By choosing the "flee" option in the "pay bounty dialogue" Outlaws can get marked for PvP fights, and that mark is disabled when the Heat (not bounty) is depleted.
• Other notable additions are Hounds (mortal Guard companions), new- PvP mode for Heists and Sacraments, the new Prison instance and a law enforcer storyline.

Tandor

As you have said, there have been plenty of threads on this subject, and plenty of dead horses beaten.

Time to leave it alone. It simply isn't going to happen. Accept it and move on to help influence the shape of the additional PvP content that we have been told is going to happen rather than continuing the pointless dialogue about something that isn't going to happen.

Clerics1985

TL;DR

I got to about the second Post. I think it's pretty detailed and I like the thought process, here's where you hit a Wall on my end. You state that "enforcers" are Not allowed to take part in DB/TG DLC. * why would they force this if they wouldn't force alliance/faction lock-in. For it to work you are going to have to find a Way to Appease The masses, meaning you can't Pull 2 DLCs off a players Base game just because they "opt" into a "enforcer" roll there's got to be better way around this?

clayandaudrey_ESO

Here's my TL;DR

It's is never coming so drop it.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Clerics1985 wrote: »

TL;DR

I got to about the second Post. I think it's pretty detailed and I like the thought process, here's where you hit a Wall on my end. You state that "enforcers" are Not allowed to take part in DB/TG DLC. * why would they force this if they wouldn't force alliance/faction lock-in. For it to work you are going to have to find a Way to Appease The masses, meaning you can't Pull 2 DLCs off a players Base game just because they "opt" into a "enforcer" roll there's got to be better way around this?

keeping to the "do it all" tes past, and it being an MMO, some form of chain to flip to one side or the other is possible. while being a criminal, you can't access the enforcer line, and vice versa. i don't see this concept as appeasing the masses, as much as just broadening the game environment in a positive fashion. its not a very new concept within MMOs either, in that they are all major time sinks.

they would have to put a complete alter-ego side to the enforcers, that mirrors the criminals quests, achievements etc, which they won't do. it is way above the crew at zos's pay-grade to make that happen...

AFrostWolf

Honestly they should have just made it opt in for pvp and increased the rewards for stealing to create a nice risk vs reward system.

Neirymn

I don't like PvP but having the possibility that other players attack you when you have a bounty (Only given by NPC's) will make things a lot more challenging, immersive and rewarding. It's too easy to get past the guards when you know how to do it right. I'm a bit sad for all those NPC's being robbed/killed by me and other players with little to no consequences. lol

Not being detected should be crucial, I don't bother to stealth sometimes and I don't even get caught. I should be affraid of having a bounty, but I'm not.

But I don't think it's gonna happen. Remember ESO – THE YEAR AHEAD:

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

STEVIL

TLDRBS - BS = but Skimmed

I fully support a law enforcer type of DLC quest story line.

In my version, it ran thru the guilds and after the main quests the infinite repeatables hadf a highly variable "meet X at wayshrine Y, escort to spot Z then maybe carry on maybe not" with a lot of different combos for the travellers, threat and intrigues/challenges making for lotsa variety.

main diff is.... nothing PVP inside the regular PVE world.

Could certainly have repeatables that started in cyrodil and those would be PVP of course but you could also reject those and take the next PVE one instead. PVP ones would not need NPC ADVERSARIES.

But NO to any injection of PVP outside of designated areas. Thats a non-starter for me.

Kendaric

senhavran wrote: »

Not being detected should be crucial, I don't bother to stealth sometimes and I don't even get caught. I should be affraid of having a bounty, but I'm not.

This sums up everything that's wrong with the justice system in the current incarnation. Players can basically ignore bounties.

NewBlacksmurf

First....you put a lot of thought into this and it shows. Well done

For me, there is no way in heck I see any PvP of this type going over well.

I will say this tho....If you remove the criminal and bounty aspects and just change Cyrodil completely like Imperial City does, then a lot of your idea would work.

Just consider that in Cyrodil, the PvE aspects there are largely frustrating for people who don't have interest in PvP.
There seems to be more players who PvE more often than they PvP and this is just possibly due to the design of this game.

If ZOS could remove all FPS issues, server stability, loading problems and actually have PvP skills that are separate from PvE so we stop seeing all the Nerf, this buff that threads, this becomes possible in an environment like IC or Cyrodil.

Neoauspex

I like it. Start coding.

NeillMcAttack

Well, this would be awesome. And really, well done on the concept. Unfortunately for me, I can't help but think you have far more vision than ZOS currently. And as sad as it is to say. This would be far to grand an undertaking for us to see anything like this the way things are. It's simply too ambitious.

The previous add-on to the justice system that was intended got scrapped for reasons I believe had very little to do with "this could be exploited" and "this kind of gameplay should be here and that there". More so i believe it had to do with time and the bottom line, and how they could better use their time to fill quarterly quotas. I mean, they sold a merchant for 40 bucks that could be exploited..!! They clearly don't even test patches properly anymore. They sell costumes that make characters look worse ffs. New motifs that have serious clipping issues. And... uh I could go on, and I'm aware I'm being a total downer but i guess all I'm trying to say is alas, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Kalifas

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

First....you put a lot of thought into this and it shows. Well done

For me, there is no way in heck I see any PvP of this type going over well.

I will say this tho....If you remove the criminal and bounty aspects and just change Cyrodil completely like Imperial City does, then a lot of your idea would work.

Just consider that in Cyrodil, the PvE aspects there are largely frustrating for people who don't have interest in PvP.
There seems to be more players who PvE more often than they PvP and this is just possibly due to the design of this game.

If ZOS could remove all FPS issues, server stability, loading problems and actually have PvP skills that are separate from PvE so we stop seeing all the Nerf, this buff that threads, this becomes possible in an environment like IC or Cyrodil.

This game needs separate PvP and PvE. Separate servers, separate skills, separate systems, separate zones, open world PvP. There a real enforcer/justice system could work, the PvP could have better performance because it is not cluttered with PvE players on the same server, PvP could have skills designed specifically for it that don't have to take PvE effects into account, PvE could have skills designed specifically for it that don't have to take PvP effects into account. When issues arise in PvP they can be fixed without worrying how the rest of the game will be impacted.

Good idea but don't see it happening with the way the game is currently.

Dubhliam

Clerics1985 wrote: »

TL;DR

I got to about the second Post. I think it's pretty detailed and I like the thought process, here's where you hit a Wall on my end. You state that "enforcers" are Not allowed to take part in DB/TG DLC. * why would they force this if they wouldn't force alliance/faction lock-in. For it to work you are going to have to find a Way to Appease The masses, meaning you can't Pull 2 DLCs off a players Base game just because they "opt" into a "enforcer" roll there's got to be better way around this?

I have thought about it, and IMO, giving the players a possibility to access both the Enforcer and Outlaw guilds at the same time leaves room for potential exploits. Especially so if given the option to switch back and forth in an instant with the tabards, as suggested.
In my opinion, the choice to be an Enforcer or an Outlaw should be a long-term choice, with one excluding the other. Just like being a Vampire or Werewolf.
Also, I have already stated in the post "Becoming an Enforcer" that one would be able to change back and forth from Outlaw to Enforcer and vice-versa. Just not both at the same time.

As for "leaving PvP in PvP areas":
I believe the current Justice System is very lacking in terms of excitement and risk/reward.
The repeatable quests from TG and DB do not provide enough incentive to be played for an extensive period of time, making the Dark Brotherhood DLC have very short life-span.
By introducing player Enforcers, the Justice System will now be more challenging, even if Outlaws decide never to engage in a PvP fight against one.
Notice this: if getting caught carrying a lot of stolen items by a guard or an Enforcer, and you don't want to be flagged for PvP - simply go to Prison. In there you can escape from your cell, and try to recover your stolen goods without getting seen by a Guard. Then you can backtrack to your cell, and wait out the sentence, leaving the Prison with your stolen goods.

notimetocare

Tons of well thought out work, but no. PvP doesn't belong in pve. Leave it that way.

SlayerTheDragon

Please for the love of all that is good, stop Justice PVP threads.

It literally was the worst idea to begin with.

Stravokov

it was a great idea but ZOS doesn't want to invest the time (AKA money) into fleshing it out. they could make it work, but like most of their unfinished/started ideas, it will remain undone.

Dubhliam

All the previous threads were heavily debated whether this system would be good or not.
Note that two polls were done, both of which heavily favored the implementation.
@Lefty_Lucy 's thread had an astounding 75% vote for PvP Justice.

The concerns of those that didn't want to see it implemented were mostly about griefing and exploiting. And it was very hard for me to reason with those people.

Now that you are presented with a detailed concept on which you can comment your concerns, all your arguments fall down to:
"Just leave it alone"

So much for arguments.

If you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting.
One of my threads already got closed in the past because the discussion got heated and it pretty much down boiled to "I said this, you said that".
Instead, you can comb through my concept and look for holes in the system where it can be abused or improved upon.

notimetocare

Dubhliam wrote: »

All the previous threads were heavily debated whether this system would be good or not.
Note that two polls were done, both of which heavily favored the implementation.
@Lefty_Lucy 's thread had an astounding 75% vote for PvP Justice.

The concerns of those that didn't want to see it implemented were mostly about griefing and exploiting. And it was very hard for me to reason with those people.

Now that you are presented with a detailed concept on which you can comment your concerns, all your arguments fall down to:
"Just leave it alone"

So much for arguments.

If you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting.
One of my threads already got closed in the past because the discussion got heated and it pretty much down boiled to "I said this, you said that".
Instead, you can comb through my concept and look for holes in the system where it can be abused or improved upon.

Polls are biased by being only the forum base. Polls by popular streamers are even more biased because of that streamers followerbase. It totalled 600 votes, 450 yes votes is led than he had in stream followers. Really think that is a valid poll?

Dubhliam

notimetocare wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

All the previous threads were heavily debated whether this system would be good or not.
Note that two polls were done, both of which heavily favored the implementation.
@Lefty_Lucy 's thread had an astounding 75% vote for PvP Justice.

The concerns of those that didn't want to see it implemented were mostly about griefing and exploiting. And it was very hard for me to reason with those people.

Now that you are presented with a detailed concept on which you can comment your concerns, all your arguments fall down to:
"Just leave it alone"

So much for arguments.

If you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting.
One of my threads already got closed in the past because the discussion got heated and it pretty much down boiled to "I said this, you said that".
Instead, you can comb through my concept and look for holes in the system where it can be abused or improved upon.

Polls are biased by being only the forum base. Polls by popular streamers are even more biased because of that streamers followerbase. It totalled 600 votes, 450 yes votes is led than he had in stream followers. Really think that is a valid poll?

I also made a poll, and it had 66% "for" votes.

Guess I should start streaming.

Jaronking

notimetocare wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

All the previous threads were heavily debated whether this system would be good or not.
Note that two polls were done, both of which heavily favored the implementation.
@Lefty_Lucy 's thread had an astounding 75% vote for PvP Justice.

The concerns of those that didn't want to see it implemented were mostly about griefing and exploiting. And it was very hard for me to reason with those people.

Now that you are presented with a detailed concept on which you can comment your concerns, all your arguments fall down to:
"Just leave it alone"

So much for arguments.

If you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting.
One of my threads already got closed in the past because the discussion got heated and it pretty much down boiled to "I said this, you said that".
Instead, you can comb through my concept and look for holes in the system where it can be abused or improved upon.

Polls are biased by being only the forum base. Polls by popular streamers are even more biased because of that streamers followerbase. It totalled 600 votes, 450 yes votes is led than he had in stream followers. Really think that is a valid poll?

I always wondered this what if ZOS did a game wide poll and this system was voted to he added to the game.What would all the nay sayers say then if it shows truly that the vast majority wants this added to the game.Not to mentioned 500-1000 people is a good simple sizes for a company.If the majority of those sampled like a idea a normal company would work on it.

Clerics1985

just put a Diablo 2 "hostile" button and Let the world go to town. don't wanna fight? cool don't "hostile" you see someone whoopin up on a NPC that you deem Unnecessary?does he have hostility clicked? click the hostile button and Go to town. At least then we would have a real way to guage just how many PVER's Wouldn't/won't participate.