I am concerned about this new Major Evasion heal set.

KenaPKK

RNG Passive dodge is already broken enough imo. I'd rather see it phased out of the game entirely and replaced with another defensive mechanic that isn't rng based, or at least which doesn't negate 100% of damage when it procs. Thoughts?

Silver_Strider

Considering that everyone, even magic builds, are using Shuffle already in PvP, this set thrown in will probably not change much, if anything. While I understand the hatred of RNG dodge, it's also more to do with how Shuffle interacts with Dodge roll than anything else honestly and if ZOS decides to change it (HAHA, fat chance) it might get better.

In PvE, I'd rather use 5 SPC+5Infallible Aether for healing and since tanks are already going Tava+Shuffle, it would offer nothing anyways.

IxskullzxI

I agree. I hate dodge. Stam builds perma rolling like monkeys is bad enough. Evasion makes it worse. A buff that easy to get and mitigates 100% damage when it procs is broken. Imo.

Ep1kMalware

IxskullzxI wrote: »

I agree. I hate dodge. Stam builds perma rolling like monkeys is bad enough. Evasion makes it worse. A buff that easy to get and mitigates 100% damage when it procs is broken. Imo.

I hate shields. dodging is our 'shie;d'. and we get penalized for using ot repeatedly.

I'm not sure how this will pan out. pve evasion does nothing, so this set would be a waste in both dps loss and damage mitigation. pvp this ji=ust looks o]absurd. stacked with malabuth? even more o]absurd. I think they could have come up with better ideas tbh.

KenaPKK

This thread is about PvP. This set will be far more imbalancing there than in PvE.

I just don't believe that passive dodge has a place in a game with active dodge.

Also people are already insanely tanky. This will just make them even moreso.

Nifty2g

It's mainly just to give the magicka users major evasion...
I don't see an issue with it, it only lasts 6 seconds. Considering how shuffle lasts over 20. It's only fair

KenaPKK

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's mainly just to give the magicka users major evasion...
I don't see an issue with it, it only lasts 6 seconds. Considering how shuffle lasts over 20. It's only fair

Yea but doesn't it refresh on heals? The duration is irrelevant according to my understanding (correct me if there's a cooldown now).

And why should magicka get Major Evasion? Why should anyone get a 20% chance to dodge 100% of damage from a hit. That's stronger than granting flat 20% damage mitigation to all incoming single target damage. That's HUGE.

I think we should uproot some of our assumptions and reevaluate if some mechanics belong in the game at all.

Ep1kMalware

KenaPKK wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's mainly just to give the magicka users major evasion...
I don't see an issue with it, it only lasts 6 seconds. Considering how shuffle lasts over 20. It's only fair

Yea but doesn't it refresh on heals? The duration is irrelevant according to my understanding (correct me if there's a cooldown now).

And why should magicka get Major Evasion? Why should anyone get a 20% chance to dodge 100% of damage from a hit. That's stronger than granting flat 20% damage mitigation to all incoming single target damage. That's HUGE.

I think we should uproot some of our assumptions and reevaluate if some mechanics belong in the game at all.

oh lord. rapid regen/lingering ritual = broken af if no cooldown.

KenaPKK

Immortal Shuffle zergs inc? XD

ZOS: hey let's make prismatics available to the masses, extend the transmutation buff x10, and give everyone in the game permanent dodge chance.

It'll be like AoE caps for single target! Yeah good idea!

WreckfulAbandon

Yeah I can't stand dodge cheese, I certainly don't want magicka builds abusing it as well.

Dracane

I 100% agree. We all know how overpowered shuffle is, we don't need something that adds this to everyone around you.
This set is creative, I give them that. But it's noooot balanced. Minor evasion would be slightly balanced, but still too much.

Minor evasion currently does not even exist as far as I know. So adding it to this set will make it unique and more balanced.

Ishammael

This set is really good. I tend to agree with Kena that Evasion is an overpowered buff and really shouldn't be in the game.

You're gonna see unlikable builds with this set.

ManDraKE

Dracane wrote: »

I 100% agree. We all know how overpowered shuffle is, we don't need something that adds this to everyone around you.
This set is creative, I give them that. But it's noooot balanced. Minor evasion would be slightly balanced, but still too much.

Minor evasion currently does not even exist as far as I know. So adding it to this set will make it unique and more balanced.

minor evasion would be even worst because it would stack with shuffle or any other source of major evasion. Be careful with the suggestions.

Cinbri

So, 8% chance to dodge from minor evasion is OP now O_o
Also if you already tested it - 10% is super low, uptime is equal to like 20-30% of battle for intense HoT non-templar builds.
It can have 90% uptime only for magicka templars, but, well, i kept asking to grant magicka templars major evasion buff for a long time already. What we got is not exactly what I asked for but it will definetly cover some weaknesses for templars till next class rebalance
Useless for dueling, tho.
P.S.: Dodge stacking is OP only for stamina builds. Try to use Shuffle on magicka build, record stuff and watch later how many "dodge" you char made - you will see that it will be very low amount (full duration of Shuffle vs 6 people will proc less "dodge" than 1 roll-dodge).

Dracane

ManDraKE wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I 100% agree. We all know how overpowered shuffle is, we don't need something that adds this to everyone around you.
This set is creative, I give them that. But it's noooot balanced. Minor evasion would be slightly balanced, but still too much.

Minor evasion currently does not even exist as far as I know. So adding it to this set will make it unique and more balanced.

minor evasion would be even worst because it would stack with shuffle or any other source of major evasion. Be careful with the suggestions.

I suppose that's true. OMG just remove this set it can't be balanced.
This passive dodge stuff is going on for way too long. As if roll dodge spam wouldn't already be OP enough.

SturgeHammer

I've always found passive dodge to be a little odd in a game with an active dodge mechanic. A buff that encourages dodging should supplement dodge roll in some way. My personal preference would be to change Evasion to a dodge roll cost rebate (not a cost reduction) that when the buff ends it restores a % of stamina spent dodge rolling during the buff's duration. If the buff is refreshed it restores a much smaller amount.

FearlessOne_2014

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Yeah I can't stand dodge cheese, I certainly don't want magicka builds abusing it as well.

Why shouldn't magicka builds be able to abuse it like stam builds are now. As crappy as it may be It'll give magicka players the same opportunity that stam players with huge burst damage btw have these days. But you just want your build to be OP and everyone elses to be weak so you can just have your jollies effortlessly killing these players. Magicka players make actually get a chance to survive that two second gank after this set releases.

IxSTALKERxI

Won't change much for organised groups. In a group setting I'd rather someone run transmutation / spell power cure as people can easily put major evasion on themselves.

The scary thing about this set would be the unorganised horde of pugs. If people spammed rapid regen with this set on the 50+ mindless pugs doing their routine push from alessia bridge to sej front door, that could be kinda frustrating. The large, spread, unorganized, ungrouped faction zergs already got buffed the last couple of patches and this could buff them even more.

kojou

I can see where things can get out of hand in PvP, but when has that been something new? Shuffle is already used a lot, so it won't change much. Also, I can already get this on my magicka Nightblade with Double Take.

In PvE I think this set will be an awesome thing for a healer to combine with SPC (assuming there is jewelry). Then I can run Tava on my DK tank without having to slot and use Shuffle to get my dodge chance.

Birdovic

Im glad im not the only concerned one about that Set.
Shuffle is horribly annoying already. Why not remove Shuffle Duration to 10 sec ;D

KenaPKK

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Won't change much for organised groups. In a group setting I'd rather someone run transmutation / spell power cure as people can easily put major evasion on themselves.

The scary thing about this set would be the unorganised horde of pugs. If people spammed rapid regen with this set on the 50+ mindless pugs doing their routine push from alessia bridge to sej front door, that could be kinda frustrating. The large, spread, unorganized, ungrouped faction zergs already got buffed the last couple of patches and this could buff them even more.

This is my concern.

KenaPKK

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I can see where things can get out of hand in PvP, but when has that been something new? Shuffle is already used a lot, so it won't change much. Also, I can already get this on my magicka Nightblade with Double Take.

In PvE I think this set will be an awesome thing for a healer to combine with SPC (assuming there is jewelry). Then I can run Tava on my DK tank without having to slot and use Shuffle to get my dodge chance.

You don't balance player skills and sets around pve. You balance pve around player skills and sets. Player skills and sets should be balanced only around pvp because you can't control players.

And saying "yea it'll be op, but so what? Stuff in pvp is always out of balance" is reckless and negligent. The fact of the matter is that the set in its current rendition, no matter how convenient for your pve tank, is obscenely op in pvp.

Shuffle also needs to be addressed and reworked, but that's another issue entirely.

Ep1kMalware

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Yeah I can't stand dodge cheese, I certainly don't want magicka builds abusing it as well.

Why shouldn't magicka builds be able to abuse it like stam builds are now. As crappy as it may be It'll give magicka players the same opportunity that stam players with huge burst damage btw have these days. But you just want your build to be OP and everyone elses to be weak so you can just have your jollies effortlessly killing these players. Magicka players make actually get a chance to survive that two second gank after this set releases.

i could care less about magica builds having dodge tbfh, way to assume that guy's intentions. >.>

i don't think there's anything wrong with magica classes having access to dodge chance, it's the way it prox]cs that bugs me personally.

Ep1kMalware

KenaPKK wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I can see where things can get out of hand in PvP, but when has that been something new? Shuffle is already used a lot, so it won't change much. Also, I can already get this on my magicka Nightblade with Double Take.

In PvE I think this set will be an awesome thing for a healer to combine with SPC (assuming there is jewelry). Then I can run Tava on my DK tank without having to slot and use Shuffle to get my dodge chance.

You don't balance player skills and sets around pve. You balance pve around player skills and sets. Player skills and sets should be balanced only around pvp because you can't control players.

And saying "yea it'll be op, but so what? Stuff in pvp is always out of balance" is reckless and negligent. The fact of the matter is that the set in its current rendition, no matter how convenient for your pve tank, is obscenely op in pvp.

Shuffle also needs to be addressed and reworked, but that's another issue entirely.

no. flat no. to balance pvp zenimax needs to look at what players are capable of amd modify battlespirit accordingly. weather this is via enhancement or debuff skills/sets in pve should not have an identicle function in pvp.

pve goes the same, minus battle spirit. it needs to be focused on player ability (without restraint).

trying to balance pve and pvp in the same way has been what's leadinf to skill destrux]ction amd imbalance.

There is no one method fits all here, everything needs to behave differentlt in pvp. players do not have 30 million health, 9001 billion physical resist, skills should not act like it. The opposite is true.