Tank builds - how do you feel about them?

Ep1kMalware

snakester320 wrote: »

okay so i have a qustion.. .......... ive come back after a break ( WELL KINDA PISSED AS A DPS WAITING FOR HOURS TO GET QUEUES) im only lvl 25 is there any reason for me to queue as just a dps ??? .............. should i queue for both dps and tank roles as a lowbie??? ............ as i did notice lowbie tanks ( as i started one to get runs) have little to no aoe aggro abilitys!!!

why are you derailing this thread, it's not about your struggles with the currently bugged out groupfinder, there are exactlt 9001 other threads about it. If you que as a tank expect to get kicked and start all over. Some people will rightfully expect you to [erform the role you join in saying you are going to [perform. Doing otherwise is [retty disrespectful don't you think?

fwiw, queing as a tank won't always get you a group atm either.

The Uninvited

snakester320 wrote: »

okay so i have a qustion.. .......... ive come back after a break ( WELL KINDA PISSED AS A DPS WAITING FOR HOURS TO GET QUEUES) im only lvl 25 is there any reason for me to queue as just a dps ??? .............. should i queue for both dps and tank roles as a lowbie??? ............ as i did notice lowbie tanks ( as i started one to get runs) have little to no aoe aggro abilitys!!!

1. No reason to queue whatsoever. Group finder is still broken. In fact, choosing both roles will screw it up even more.
2. There is no AOE taunt/aggro ability at all in this game.

Rhazmuz

I enjoy tanking quite alot.

Started playing more as an off-tank and group buffer in previous MMO games but seeing as ESO doesnt really need that alot, I guess you noe need to be a full on tank, with as much group utility as possible (hence the emergence of the Tava + Warhorn combo).

I hope ZOS makes sure tanks (and healers) are needed in future content, so we dont go down the road of mass dps borefest like GW2 did.

Rainteal

My tank is mainly for trials, but I use him in vet and normal pledges with a little twist.

I wear all my DPS gear and run S&B on back bar. I just 1-bar DPS (yes I know it isn't the best, but with all gold gear and Maelstrom weapons it works) and, when we get to bosses or heavy hitters, I quickly taunt. I keep DPSing, then just do quick swaps to block big hits. This keeps us from getting the one-shots on DPS and healers when they accidentally miss blocks, but keeps the damage output very high.

This works very effectively.

While I am one of those folks that really enjoys tanking dungeons, it just isn't needed when running with high CP, maximized groups. Hopefully, the new dungeons next month will require a real tank to progress through.

NBrookus

snakester320 wrote: »

okay so i have a qustion.. .......... ive come back after a break ( WELL KINDA PISSED AS A DPS WAITING FOR HOURS TO GET QUEUES) im only lvl 25 is there any reason for me to queue as just a dps ??? .............. should i queue for both dps and tank roles as a lowbie??? ............ as i did notice lowbie tanks ( as i started one to get runs) have little to no aoe aggro abilitys!!!

If you want to tank, be a tank. The first skill in S&B is a taunt; get enough health and resist and you can do the basic job at level 25. Add some crowd control and you'll be better. There is no AOE taunt - tanking requires a brain in this game not just a beefy build.

But if you think you are going to game the groupfinder like the first "tank" we got yesterday, prepare to be kicked and go back into queue. We got a new lowbie tank and he did a fine job.

We didn't need a tank but it makes dungeon runs smoother and faster.

M_TeK_9

I have been a tank since day 1. I love tanks....when they're required.

I have completed every 4 man dungeon on many many occasions using 4 dps and off-heals only. It breaks my balls how easy the content is in this game. It makes it so one of the (crazy large number) 3 optional roles the game offers is hardly required at all. It wasn't that long ago ICP and WGT needed them but....history. Nerfing WGT and ICP made this game pretty damn boring considering I 3 man them all the time. They need to return them to the way they were 4 nerfs ago and add leadeboard scores for the HM runs.

Tanks are required for trials only, sadly.

idk

Woeler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Far as I'm concerned tanks are perfectly viable and can do their job well. Only thing they truly lack is an AoE taunt. Beyond that I can say without a doubt based on majority headcount that tanks are not popular due to DPS and healing being so strong in their own regard.

I will always cherish my awesome tank though

Let's hope (and I'm saying this as a tank), we never ever get an AoE taunt.

Absolutely agree. AOE taunts are not needed in this game. It would only lead to lazy tanking that would also screw up some pulls.

Tourist_McGee

I would rather have a non-target aoe aggro to use after i've already pulled what i wanted to pull, just to keep things looking at me without having to target things individually. But then, i've not tanked for any groups, just tried to keep aggro in publick dungeons.

Ep1kMalware

The Uninvited wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

okay so i have a qustion.. .......... ive come back after a break ( WELL KINDA PISSED AS A DPS WAITING FOR HOURS TO GET QUEUES) im only lvl 25 is there any reason for me to queue as just a dps ??? .............. should i queue for both dps and tank roles as a lowbie??? ............ as i did notice lowbie tanks ( as i started one to get runs) have little to no aoe aggro abilitys!!!

1. No reason to queue whatsoever. Group finder is still broken. In fact, choosing both roles will screw it up even more.
2. There is no AOE taunt/aggro ability at all in this game.

ever heard of 'tormenter' set? works fine. but you don't need this, just talons/chains works vert well. dps can mow them fown quickly with aoe dmg.

Ep1kMalware

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

I have been a tank since day 1. I love tanks....when they're required.

I have completed every 4 man dungeon on many many occasions using 4 dps and off-heals only. It breaks my balls how easy the content is in this game. It makes it so one of the (crazy large number) 3 optional roles the game offers is hardly required at all. It wasn't that long ago ICP and WGT needed them but....history. Nerfing WGT and ICP made this game pretty damn boring considering I 3 man them all the time. They need to return them to the way they were 4 nerfs ago and add leadeboard scores for the HM runs.

Tanks are required for trials only, sadly.

leaderboards for dungeons would be sweet, I'd have a tank in wgt. chasing the boss around wastes time and resources. Idk how people can stand chasing bosses around so much.

M_TeK_9

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

I have been a tank since day 1. I love tanks....when they're required.

I have completed every 4 man dungeon on many many occasions using 4 dps and off-heals only. It breaks my balls how easy the content is in this game. It makes it so one of the (crazy large number) 3 optional roles the game offers is hardly required at all. It wasn't that long ago ICP and WGT needed them but....history. Nerfing WGT and ICP made this game pretty damn boring considering I 3 man them all the time. They need to return them to the way they were 4 nerfs ago and add leadeboard scores for the HM runs.

Tanks are required for trials only, sadly.

leaderboards for dungeons would be sweet, I'd have a tank in wgt. chasing the boss around wastes time and resources. Idk how people can stand chasing bosses around so much.

Well in WGT HM the boss chases you in hard mode. lol. But i mean that's why I do it....otherwise the game is a joke in regards to 4 player content difficulty.

AlnilamE

OP, I've run random dungeons as a healer a lot recently, and the difference between having a tank that knows what they are doing and having a tank that thinks they can tank but don't is night and day.

Sure, both are doable, but having a good tank makes things soooo much smoother.

So as much as possible I try to queue up with one of my tank friends so that we have the healer/tank covered, because we can make up any DPS shortages if necessary.

idk

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

I have been a tank since day 1. I love tanks....when they're required.

I have completed every 4 man dungeon on many many occasions using 4 dps and off-heals only. It breaks my balls how easy the content is in this game. It makes it so one of the (crazy large number) 3 optional roles the game offers is hardly required at all. It wasn't that long ago ICP and WGT needed them but....history. Nerfing WGT and ICP made this game pretty damn boring considering I 3 man them all the time. They need to return them to the way they were 4 nerfs ago and add leadeboard scores for the HM runs.

Tanks are required for trials only, sadly.

leaderboards for dungeons would be sweet, I'd have a tank in wgt. chasing the boss around wastes time and resources. Idk how people can stand chasing bosses around so much.

What boss in WGT needs to be changed? Have not seen any of the bosses there require anyone chasing them. I have seen tanks that were challenged keeping control of the final boss and as such moved the boss through much of the fight.

Ep1kMalware

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

M_TeK_9 wrote: »

I have been a tank since day 1. I love tanks....when they're required.

I have completed every 4 man dungeon on many many occasions using 4 dps and off-heals only. It breaks my balls how easy the content is in this game. It makes it so one of the (crazy large number) 3 optional roles the game offers is hardly required at all. It wasn't that long ago ICP and WGT needed them but....history. Nerfing WGT and ICP made this game pretty damn boring considering I 3 man them all the time. They need to return them to the way they were 4 nerfs ago and add leadeboard scores for the HM runs.

Tanks are required for trials only, sadly.

leaderboards for dungeons would be sweet, I'd have a tank in wgt. chasing the boss around wastes time and resources. Idk how people can stand chasing bosses around so much.

Well in WGT HM the boss chases you in hard mode. lol. But i mean that's why I do it....otherwise the game is a joke in regards to 4 player content difficulty.

not if taunted. I sometimes make a change to my rotation and just a=taunt the bosses so we csn stack/burn in dps only groups. I can do it in medium armour, 16k health, and pull above average dps with little to no effort at all. dk tanks can talon/chainpull amd give major/minor brutality to their group. A good tsn==ank can absolutely help kill things quicker.

for non dk tanks, there are plenty of other routes. like tormenter set on templar. (that one heal with the huge aoe that takes 1.2 sec to cast *shou;d* woe=rk as a large aoe taunt.

sorcs have encase/negate which is frackin awesome. Not sure what nightblades would use.

I can't understand whu so many have troubles. infused weapon (used to be powered) with resource leaching while block cancelling heavy attacks rebuilds ulti/resources. My ladyfriens prefers tanking using a magica leach enchantment so when she block cancels she gets stam AND magica back, then uses ulti for more resources if she needs, ad an absolute 'oh ***' she just sips a tristat.

there are a lot of viable ways to tank, and make yourself an asset to the team. Just because tanks aren't needed doesn't mean they aren't wanted. But it is really hard to want a tank that just tapes down their block buttom while they go afk. Have no resource management, amd spend the entirety of the fight demanding shards.

its just good players vs bad players. Alot of people moan and cry when they get picked over for a mediocre dps. It just depends how involved you want to be in a fight.

BucFanJKE

I prefer to bring a tank and healer when I can, but there are just so many DPS guys, and the dungeons are so easy that it's easier to get a 4 dps group. I've 4 DPSed every pledge except prison. Tanks are nice, but nearly everyone has a DPS character. Heck me and a guildie two man dpsed Vet wayrest the other day for the gold key. Pledges are too easy to worry about finding a tank. (That's not a complaint I like getting through them quickly)

Praeficere

I still like to run dungeons with/as a Tank, the group dynamic is a lot more interesting and fights are more fun than a messy 4 DD run. If the Tank controls and positions mobs properly, and is built right, dungeons are the same if not faster than 4 DD runs as it's cleaner and easier for the other 3 members. If something isn't exactly needed, it doesn't mean it's without use.

I'm in no rush when I run dungeons. I'm there to share an enjoyable experience with others, test new setups/builds and teach newer players now and then. There are many tanks who focus wholly on durability and that has no place in the game. You need utility/damage from resources and sets, even in Trials. Anyone can be a punchbag.

There's a lot of variety in Tank builds at the moment and all classes can Tank and offer something to their group, which is fantastic. I do wish they buff content though, hopefully with One Tamriel.

Gargath

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Well, I just recently repsecced a DK back into tanking. (He was a tank a year or so ago, but I specced him out of it to level alternate skills and never got around to speccing him back into it.)

When I used to run him as a tank, I had split stats between health and stamina, and I seem to remember doing okay. But I took advice I read on these very forums to heart this time, and put all his enchantments into healths and just a few attribute points into stamina, with the vast majority into health.

I discovered I can block about three hits before running out of stamina.

I suited him up in all CP140 gear because I didn't have the mats for CP160 yet. I put a metric crapton of CP into Block Cost reduction. And still, I'm running out of stamina. All my attacks are basically light and heavy attacks, because basically all abilities cost too much to use. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but I feel fairly certain it's not all me.

I personally love running dungeon as a tank because of self healing and survivability. I also like there is no aoe taunt, since there are a bunch of DPS players making drama when you didn't taunt all the adds around, on which they put their low dmg aoe or even light attacks (archers) - quite silly but happens even with some guildies and aoe taunt available would make them crying for you to use it all the time.

If you run out of stamina so it seems you need to change your tanking style. Like to make oa single taunt followed by heavy attack, block and so on. Stay on boss' red circles with block, instead of dodge rolling out of circle. With block cost reduced ~85% it's safe, for me at least.
My tank is Nord DK with all attributes into health (~37k health) and all armor enchantments into stamina (purple CP160 crafted glyphs). Jewellery enchantments into health regen (total 2250 hp regen). Set is Hist Bark x5 heavy and Whitestrake Retribution x2 + same from 1H and Shield and Dual Wield swords on 2-nd bar. Armor traits and shield all into blocking cost reduction (sturdy i think), gives extra ~25% cost reduced. All armor CP160 Purple quality (not enough money for gold yet). Shield gold, weapons so far Purple...
Jewellery 3 pcs. Purple CP160 from Endurance set (cheap and good) with health and health regen.
CP mainly into blocking cost reduction (20%), health regen (15%), offensive divided into "light and heavy attack damage increase" (forgot the name) and mighty, defensive mostly into spell resistance (~4000) and critical resistance (10%).
Ah and trait on sword I tried Decisive for the first time and it looks very nice, especially when running with ultimate Magma Armor from Earthen Heart skill line (morph into Magma Shell to give a powerfull damage shield of 100% of the groupies' health for 9 seconds) and Low Slash (from 1H+S) morphed into Heroic Slash as second ability after Ransack to build ultimate.
This build gets a lot of stamina back during combat so even when I run out of stamina it comes back very fast and I always have enough for block.
If you lack of CP160 mats, ask someone to make a set for you. If you lack of money for mats, go to some depopulated small area like Bleackrock Island, and harvest raw mats there and sell for MM average in decent guild - I get instant gold this way and some tempers from refining ores. Also scouting Coldharbour on a frequest basis, with some fast character and 50% picking time reduced is good for harvesting plants for sale and potions .

Btw I had used this tank based mainly on stamina earlier, but survivability was poor and I needed healer all the time. Now the self healing is great, also with using magicka defensive spells Spiked Armor morphed into Hardened Armor, with Dragon Blood morphed into Green Dragon Blood (both from Draconic Power) for ultimate situations.
I think tank must be a tank, his damage is low but survivability great, it can kill a boss alone but it will take a long time and I love it this way .




Edit: some corrections
Forgot to mention that mundus stone is The Steed and I play all the time with tri-stat Purple CP150 food .

Ep1kMalware

Gargath wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Well, I just recently repsecced a DK back into tanking. (He was a tank a year or so ago, but I specced him out of it to level alternate skills and never got around to speccing him back into it.)

When I used to run him as a tank, I had split stats between health and stamina, and I seem to remember doing okay. But I took advice I read on these very forums to heart this time, and put all his enchantments into healths and just a few attribute points into stamina, with the vast majority into health.

I discovered I can block about three hits before running out of stamina.

I suited him up in all CP140 gear because I didn't have the mats for CP160 yet. I put a metric crapton of CP into Block Cost reduction. And still, I'm running out of stamina. All my attacks are basically light and heavy attacks, because basically all abilities cost too much to use. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but I feel fairly certain it's not all me.

I personally love running dungeon as a tank because of self healing and survivability. I also like there is no aoe taunt, since there are a bunch of DPS players making drama when you didn't taunt all the adds around, on which they put their low dmg aoe or even light attacks (archers) - quite silly but happens even with some guildies and aoe taunt available would make them crying for you to use it all the time.

If you run out of stamina so it seems you need to change your tanking style. Like to make oa single taunt followed by heavy attack, block and so on. Stay on boss' red circles with block, instead of dodge rolling out of circle. With block cost reduced ~85% it's safe, for me at least.
My tank is Nord DK with all attributes into health (~37k health) and all armor enchantments into stamina (purple CP160 crafted glyphs). Jewellery enchantments into health regen (total 2250 hp regen). Set is Hist Bark x5 heavy and Whitestrake Retribution x2 + same from 1H and Shield and Dual Wield swords on 2-nd bar. Armor traits and shield all into blocking cost reduction (sturdy i think), gives extra ~25% cost reduced. All armor CP160 Purple quality (not enough money for gold yet). Shield gold, weapons so far Purple...
Jewellery 3 pcs. Purple CP160 from Endurance set (cheap and good) with health and health regen.
CP mainly into blocking cost reduction (20%), health regen (15%), offensive divided into "light and heavy attack damage increase" (forgot the name) and mighty, defensive mostly into spell resistance (~4000) and critical resistance (10%).
Ah and trait on sword I tried Decisive for the first time and it looks very nice, especially when running with ultimate Magma Armor from Earthen Heart skill line (morph into Magma Shell to give a powerfull damage shield of 100% of the groupies' health for 9 seconds) and Low Slash (from 1H+S) morphed into Heroic Slash as second ability after Ransack to build ultimate.
This build gets a lot of stamina back during combat so even when I run out of stamina it comes back very fast and I always have enough for block.
If you lack of CP160 mats, ask someone to make a set for you. If you lack of money for mats, go to some depopulated small area like Bleackrock Island, and harvest raw mats there and sell for MM average in decent guild - I get instant gold this way and some tempers from refining ores. Also scouting Coldharbour on a frequest basis, with some fast character and 50% picking time reduced is good for harvesting plants for sale and potions .

Btw I had used this tank based mainly on stamina earlier, but survivability was poor and I needed healer all the time. Now the self healing is great, also with using magicka defensive spells Spiked Armor morphed into Hardened Armor, with Dragon Blood morphed into Green Dragon Blood (both from Draconic Power) for ultimate situations.
I think tank must be a tank, his damage is low but survivability great, it can kill a boss alone but it will take a long time and I love it this way .




Edit: some corrections
Forgot to mention that mundus stone is The Steed and I play all the time with tri-stat Purple CP150 food .

you can try 3pc fasala's guile jewelry and 2pc endurance for s&b to get that max health. organum's scales is rediculous, and blooda;ter on boss can give a tom of health back as well.

if your build is even halfway decent you can only block the heavy attacks and not even notice lifeloss in manu fights. constantly being out of stamina is a sign that you're doing it wrong.

Gargath

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

you can try 3pc fasala's guile jewelry and 2pc endurance for s&b to get that max health. organum's scales is rediculous, and blooda;ter on boss can give a tom of health back as well.

if your build is even halfway decent you can only block the heavy attacks and not even notice lifeloss in manu fights. constantly being out of stamina is a sign that you're doing it wrong.

Well, with my build the health never drops below 60% to turn on the health regen passive from Orgnum's Scales. That way I prefer 20% dodge chance on blocking from hist bark, since the block is my main.
As for the Blood Altar I read many opinions, mostly negative, from players that it's an early rubbish skill. Though I never used it in action...

I'd rather take instead the stamina ability from 1H+Shield - Defensive Posture morph into Absorb Magic: while slotted block extra x% damage and x% block cost reduced, plus on use it absorbs one spell projectile and heal for 15% of health. I now level this skill to test...

Snowstrider

Woeler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Far as I'm concerned tanks are perfectly viable and can do their job well. Only thing they truly lack is an AoE taunt. Beyond that I can say without a doubt based on majority headcount that tanks are not popular due to DPS and healing being so strong in their own regard.

I will always cherish my awesome tank though

Let's hope (and I'm saying this as a tank), we never ever get an AoE taunt.

Not every tank is a dragonknight and have inhale and talons

Johngo0036

I have a dk tank and recently a NB sap tank,
love playing them,

Weesacs

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Tank is boring as hell just taunt everything in sight and occasional interrupt. And in pvp* you are useless as tank because you do no damage so your influence is 0. Haven't found a tank build that feels like you are more than just a meatsack that the healer has to constantly heal.


They should redesign tank so that it's less about soaking damage and more about reflecting damage.

As a PvP templar tank myself, my role is to support the group with off heals, shields, shards etc and also to be the first to jump into the action when taking keeps - hopefully with the action pinned on me whilst the DPS kill what's around me. You don't need to do any damage to be successful as a tank in PvP.

Gargath

I just imagined that having a manual tagging for bosses (or having an auto tag bosses option in menu) would help sometimes in dungeons to find the smaller bosses on which tank need to focus and everyone else avoid. In some narrow dungeons like Spindleclutch the smaller bosses sometimes vanish in the crowd of ads, doing messy things and being hard to recognize and pull from the crowd...
Not a big issue but helps a little (well made in swtor).

mistermutiny89

I feel like I want bracing back and the block cost reduction put back in the red tree.

But yes, I love tanking pledges. Even wgt is great to tank... With many of the stronger dots in PVE being aoe's it's vital to keep the boss in one position. Warhorn is also a great dps buff for the group and if you're a sap tank the off heals are more noticeable, letting the healer be more offensive.

Personally hate doing dungeons without one.

Hellbender27

Woeler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Far as I'm concerned tanks are perfectly viable and can do their job well. Only thing they truly lack is an AoE taunt. Beyond that I can say without a doubt based on majority headcount that tanks are not popular due to DPS and healing being so strong in their own regard.

I will always cherish my awesome tank though

Let's hope (and I'm saying this as a tank), we never ever get an AoE taunt.

I 100%!!! agree please NO AOE taunt ever!!!!!!!!! ( and I also tank 7 characters 5 are tanks) this would ruin it for me.

Hellbender27

shepardTHEweak wrote: »

i been crying for a aoe taunt for a long time now... maybe i will win the lotto first

AOE taunt is not only insanely lazy but it would completely water down the experience for me the dungeons are easy enough I

sekou_trayvond

Love running my tanks- one a Blazing Shield Templar and the other a more standard -issue Nord DK.

And seeing as almost any Undaunted pugging I do is with them, I enjoy helping lowbies get through them and learn mechanics, if there are questions.

I feel like my CP 501 tank can really make the learning process easier for them. Just soak of gobs of damage while they concentrate on their positioning and rotations and such.

Fun times.

Trublz

Why is there no AOE taunt for tanks?
AS a DK DW/Bow almost all my dmg is AOE DOT. In dungeons, constantly i am drawing all agro and end up dieing no matter how good a healer is in the group.

Mortehl

KingMagaw wrote: »

PvP tanks are useless.

Countless dead zergs from blue and red would probably disagree with this after getting ambushed and bent over by my group. By all means though, please keep as many people clueless as possible! I appreciate it!

Tinus_92

Trublz wrote: »

Why is there no AOE taunt for tanks?
AS a DK DW/Bow almost all my dmg is AOE DOT. In dungeons, constantly i am drawing all agro and end up dieing no matter how good a healer is in the group.

If you want to bring the mobs together, let the tank should aggro the melee enemies and bring them to the ranged ones. If the rest of the group follows the tank as well you'll have the mayority of mobs within your AoE range. If everyone stays close, this will also makes AoE healing more effective.