Have You Read The Terms Of Service?

Turelus

Just out of interest and gathering more data for a future forums post regarding Cheating & Exploiting.

As the thread title says have you read the Terms of Service for playing ESO, please feel free to expand your poll choice by explaining more in a post.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes I've read it all.

Yes I read it all . I wanted to make sure I wasn't agreeing to give away an organ or something .

Milvan

No I haven't read any of it.

Wait, what? There's a Terms Of Service?

KhajitFurTrader

Yes I've read it all.

Without knowing what your future post will be about, it should be noted that in the case of agreed-upon business contract conditions, ignorance is not bliss...

Nifty2g

I've read some of it.

I've had to read some of it here and there

Turelus

I've read some of it.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Without knowing what your future post will be about, it should be noted that in the case of agreed-upon business contract conditions, ignorance is not bliss...

I know, the idea is that if there is an overwhelming outcome of "I didn't read it" then it might be in ZOS' interest to create a page where information about what is/isn't allowed within the game.
Some players coming to the game may not be aware or understand how a ToS works for an online game and as such not realise when they're in fact cheating but otherwise wouldn't do so.

Neirymn

I've read some of it.

I've read it but not word after word, not very fond of legal blabla.

Vipstaakki

I've read some of it.

Only the important bits and the fine print. Skipped all the law text and such, its boring.

KhajitFurTrader

Yes I've read it all.

Turelus wrote: »

I know, the idea is that if there is an overwhelming outcome of "I didn't read it" then it might be in ZOS' interest to create a page where information about what is/isn't allowed within the game.

Hmmm, I always thought these pages were here:
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

Now, I certainly would not expect them to list particular examples of what is forbidden on a case by case basis -- no-one does that, for very good reasons: real life changes faster than any body of laws or contracts can be brought up to par, so they have to be formulated broadly, without getting too specific, nor being too unspecific.

E.g., the statement "You mustn't use cheating tool <insert name here>, or you'll be perma-banned if getting caught." would become obsolete -- or in need of getting updated -- within very short time, as said cheating tool gets discontinued, and/or forked into a dozen new offsprings. Someone would have to keep such a list up to date, while we as players would have to agree to them on a very frequent basis.

Turelus wrote: »

Some players coming to the game may not be aware or understand how a ToS works for an online game and as such not realise when they're in fact cheating but otherwise wouldn't do so.

IIRC, the player has to agree to all three of the texts mentioned above at the first time he starts the game, as well as every time they have been changed. It is the sole responsibility of the player to read and understand them, because no-one else can do this in his/her place. If the player chooses to skip them, that's his/her responsibility, too. ZOS cannot be held liable for the choices of others, as it is an act of will to agree upon the ToS/CoC/EULA, informed or not.

Regarding cheating, I don't think it possible to cheat "by accident", because it's a conscious choice -- whenever the question arises whether something I'm about to do might be considered to be illegal or morally questionable, I should stop, question myself about my intentions, and, when in doubt, inform myself about the "legal" situation. Ask yourself what would happen if everyone was doing it, or how you would feel if you were on the receiving end of your action. Kant's categorical imperative FTW.

Tandor

I've read some of it.

Turelus wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Without knowing what your future post will be about, it should be noted that in the case of agreed-upon business contract conditions, ignorance is not bliss...

I know, the idea is that if there is an overwhelming outcome of "I didn't read it" then it might be in ZOS' interest to create a page where information about what is/isn't allowed within the game.
Some players coming to the game may not be aware or understand how a ToS works for an online game and as such not realise when they're in fact cheating but otherwise wouldn't do so.

Don't under-estimate people, they know when they're cheating alright.

As far as any developer is concerned, if they've set out the Terms of Service and the player has consented to those terms then that's all that's needed.

Most just scroll through to the part where they can click on the consent and get on with the game, they (a) trust a developer not to include unreasonable terms and (b) know that any unreasonable terms wouldn't be upheld in law anyway.

A more interesting question in my view would be to ask whether anyone has ever intended to play a game but then read the terms of service and decided not to play it as a result.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I've read some of it.

It has been well over two years and the legal babble makes my eyes cross. It is one thing to read it and another thing to understand it.

KhajitFurTrader

Yes I've read it all.

Tandor wrote: »

A more interesting question in my view would be to ask whether anyone has ever intended to play a game but then read the terms of service and decided not to play it as a result.

Oh, I did that on one occasion. The game in question tried to dictate what other particular programs I mustn't have installed at the same time. It even went as far as quitting itself as long as it looked for and found a specific component of said programs installed in the system. Needless to say, I returned it for a refund, because it was "defective".

Abeille

Yes I've read it all.

I don't sign anything before reading.

Mady

No I haven't read any of it.

lol

susmitds

No I haven't read any of it.

Did not read any of it but my morals and pride as a competitive person already keeps me in line.

BruhItsOver9000

No because im special.

danno8

I've read some of it.

Some of it.

They are all basically the same.

"Don't be an a**, don't be racist or sexist or anything like that, our game is ours and your account belongs to us and we can turn you off at any time for no reason. Playing the game is a privilege we give you, not a right you inherently possess."

If you can understand and agree to this^ you get the most important parts.

dennissomb16_ESO

I've read some of it.

reading it means very little as it is written by lawyers with the sole purpose of being so convoluted that most people have no real idea of what all the various legal crap actually means. What seems concerning is that ZOS does not seem to have read it or there would certainly be more action taken against those who break the TOS LOL

Theodorus

No I haven't read any of it.

Regarding cheating and exploiting, people don't care. They'll do what they can get away with, period.

ToS is a legal document that allows Zeni to take action after the fact; it's not pre-emptive.

Clerics1985

No I haven't read any of it.

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed a couple of posts that contained inappropriate images. Please refrain from using images that are not rated PG-13 or lower...and relevant to the topic of this discussion.

Lysette

Yes I've read it all.

I have basically scanned through it - because I know most of what it is about from other games with similar clauses. But I think I have a good idea of what is in it - good enough to claim to have read it in full - even not every word of it.

jello

No I haven't read any of it.

No, because every Tos of every games are the same. We have all rights, you have nothing.

Lysette

Yes I've read it all.

jello wrote: »

No, because every Tos of every games are the same. We have all rights, you have nothing.

To the most part you are correct - that is why I just scan through the rules and read just those, which look like they would contain an unusual clause.

menedhyn

Yes I've read it all.

Sadly, my unhealthy obsession for detail and nuance means I read everything.

Mojmir

Better question is....has the company read it after they wrote? They certainly don't follow it.

Ch4mpTW

No I haven't read any of it.

Mojmir wrote: »

Better question is....has the company read it after they wrote? They certainly don't follow it.

Truth. Much truth.

raidentenshu_ESO

No I haven't read any of it.

The Terms of Service is toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Long to read.


I don't cheat so I don't need to read them. I also don't act like a *** so I don't have to worry about getting banned. It has worked for me for a long time.

RogueShade

Yes I've read it all.

I never sign anything without reading it first. Alas in the electronic age you can't alter the bits you don't agree with, which I've done for employment agreements. I have also not played games when I disagreed with the ToS.

Abeille

Yes I've read it all.

RogueShade wrote: »

I never sign anything without reading it first. Alas in the electronic age you can't alter the bits you don't agree with, which I've done for employment agreements. I have also not played games when I disagreed with the ToS.

Never happened to me with games, but it did happen with a website when I was much, much younger. It was an online community that allowed us to post stuff we made (drawings, stories and such) but on the TOS they reserved themselves the right to claim ownership of anything we posted.

GCypher87

You should all watch the human centipad episode of South Park.