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[SUGGESTION] Apply a Healing, Damage and Movement Speed Debuff to Large Groups

gibous
gibous
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Do this in incremental tiers based on size. This idea comes from the fact that fighting in large coordinated numbers has both advantages and disadvantages - not just one or the other. Currently, there are only advantages to being in a really large group - perhaps most notably enormous amounts of healing stacked on top of AOE cap protection. What are the disadvantages of being in a large group, apart from destroying server and game performance? None. This is unbalanced.

My idea for a "battle formation" debuff might look something like this:
  • Group of 1-8: No debuff
  • 9-12: 5% penalty to healing and damage
  • 13-16: 10% penalty to healing, damage, and 3% penalty to movement speed
  • 17-20: 15% penalty to healing, damage, and 6% penalty to movement speed
  • 21-24: 20% penalty to healing, damage, and 9% penalty to movement speed

The outline above is just to get the point across - there's likely a smarter way of implementing the thresholds / values etc.

Of course this game bears no resemblance to reality - but I think it's still interesting to consider historical examples of large organized armies being countered by smaller, more mobile units attacking the flanks and the rear. I really like the idea of having a game dynamic where choosing to be part of a large team comes along with the sacrifice of personal heroism and strength.

The devs have shown an interest in creating some kind of disadvantage to being in a large group - look at magicka detonation and its morphs, as well as the Vicious Death set. But balance will not be had by way of an ability or an armor set - much the same way sorcerer shields could not be balanced alone by shield breaker. We need a baked-in solution such as what I'm suggesting here.

Large groups need not worry - you will still be able to obliterate most opposition - you will just need to pay a little more attention to what is happening instead of just feeling safe inside the flock.
Reddington James — Magsorc & Magplar (NA PC)
  • DjSolJAH
    DjSolJAH
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    They do. It's called LAG
    Zee blues are coming!!!! Always.... Always coming...
  • Lord_Hev
    Lord_Hev
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    I'd rather just cap group size to 12. All these calculations look like more potential server stress caused by zergs lol. Force people that want to run together more then 12 to have to coordinate via communication.
    Neqamancer | Qaevir/Qaevira Av Morilye/Molag
    Tri-Faction @Lord_Hevnoraak ingame
    PC NA
  • Ghost-Shot
    Ghost-Shot
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    Yes, come play this MMO and get punished for playing with people.
    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    I'd rather just cap group size to 12. All these calculations look like more potential server stress caused by zergs lol. Force people that want to run together more then 12 to have to coordinate via communication.

    This would make way more sense. 12-16 would be the optimal group size IMO.
    Edited by Ghost-Shot on June 30, 2016 7:25PM
  • Hempyre
    Hempyre
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    Thank you for your suggestion. We will file this away for later consideration. *Drops into waste bin*.

    No.
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
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    gibous wrote: »
    "I don't like large groups, here is how I think people should be penalized for playing together"
    Nz6Lr5e.gif
    Edited by HoloYoitsu on June 30, 2016 7:39PM
  • gibous
    gibous
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    I'd rather just cap group size to 12. All these calculations look like more potential server stress caused by zergs lol. Force people that want to run together more then 12 to have to coordinate via communication.

    Lol yea I know the server doesn't need more calculations but it's not like constant line of sight checks - just would need to run when a member is added or removed from group.

    Max group of 12 would be good too but I think zos likes the idea of 24 man raids and I was trying to think inside that box.
    Reddington James — Magsorc & Magplar (NA PC)
  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    The suggestion to change group size is futile. It won't change anything. Hoards of players will still show up to the crossed swords. Even Stansa Stark knew numbers wins. He who has the most bodies usually wins. People know this so they cram to one spot to win the fight. Changing officially accepted group sizes won't change this. It will only serve to punish large guilds who want to play together.
  • hammayolettuce
    hammayolettuce
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    Eliminate groups altogether. Let chaos ensue!
    Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥
    Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥
    DARFAL COVANT
  • zyk
    zyk
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    This has already happened via the introduction of the Vicious Death set and the nerfs to Purge and the Rapid Maneuver lines:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/275282/the-toxic-root-meta-in-alliance-war-pvp

    The so-called 'snare/root meta' hurts large groups more than others. Playing solo in large fights, it's hard to appreciate what all the fuss is about.
    Edited by zyk on June 30, 2016 8:06PM
  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    Heck I say RAISE the group limit to 124! Why not?
  • Komma
    Komma
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    Penalize large groups....In a large group pvp game...lol. Maybe go play something else.
    Kohma Kozzy-cr160-Stamblade
    Komma-cr160-Magicblade
    Komma the Great-cr160-Stam DK
    Kommah-cr160-Mag DK
    Komma Kozzy-cr160-Mag Templar
    Kommuh Kozzy-cr160-Stam Templar
    Komma the White-cr160-Mag Sorc
    The Tazmanian Devil-cr160-Stamsorc
    OTG
  • gibous
    gibous
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    Zergers coming in hot, just like on the live server. Come on zerg me down folks with your one liners and meme graphics.
    Reddington James — Magsorc & Magplar (NA PC)
  • Nemesismimz
    Nemesismimz
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    Most of us enjoy playing in bigger groups. that is why alot of us play this game. even with most of the bugs and such the pvp is still superior to 95% of other games. even when running a 5 or 6 man group id rather have a target rich environment and wait for that them to mess up one by one til we can handle the rest of the group.
    Nemesismimz-GM Iron Legion- NA PC
    Baba Yaga-Magblade
    Nemesismimz-Stamblade
    Lord Nemesismimz-Mag DK
    Kylo Ryn- Stam Sorc


  • Komma
    Komma
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    gibous wrote: »
    Zergers coming in hot, just like on the live server. Come on zerg me down folks with your one liners and meme graphics.

    Is a 24 man group a zerg? how bout 12? Maybe 6? This isnt call of duty.
    Kohma Kozzy-cr160-Stamblade
    Komma-cr160-Magicblade
    Komma the Great-cr160-Stam DK
    Kommah-cr160-Mag DK
    Komma Kozzy-cr160-Mag Templar
    Kommuh Kozzy-cr160-Stam Templar
    Komma the White-cr160-Mag Sorc
    The Tazmanian Devil-cr160-Stamsorc
    OTG
  • Lord_Hev
    Lord_Hev
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    Capping group size to 12 encourages coordination and communication. Yes people can still cluster up in certain hot-spots but 2 teams of 12 can do more good hitting from different directions then a ball of 24 just hamming into the zerg. This encourages something else then 2 clusters just cluster-****ing into each other. The best way to spread out is to encourage team-play then zerg play.

    Edited by Lord_Hev on June 30, 2016 8:32PM
    Neqamancer | Qaevir/Qaevira Av Morilye/Molag
    Tri-Faction @Lord_Hevnoraak ingame
    PC NA
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    Capping group size to 12 encourages coordination and communication. Yes people can still cluster up in certain hot-spots but 2 teams of 12 can do more good hitting from different directions then a ball of 24 just hamming into the zerg. This encourages something else then 2 clusters just cluster-****ing into each other. The best way to spread out is to encourage team-play then zerg play.

    I'd much prefer a 16 man group cap. It's just a really ideal number for group PvP.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    Capping group size to 12 encourages coordination and communication. Yes people can still cluster up in certain hot-spots but 2 teams of 12 can do more good hitting from different directions then a ball of 24 just hamming into the zerg. This encourages something else then 2 clusters just cluster-****ing into each other. The best way to spread out is to encourage team-play then zerg play.

    We basically did this anyways towards the end, basically stay scattered left and right and converge on command.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    The meta is almost prohibitive at times for large groups. Most have left the game in anger, frustration, and/or disappointment, so at least on NA PC the number of large groups is barebones.

    The spirit of your idea would be meaningless as people that want to run larger than 24 currently just form multiple groups, put them in the same fight and communicate on TS. It seems like you just want this thread so people can disagree with you and so you can call them zerglings.
  • Force-Siphon
    Force-Siphon
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    Ahahahaha red the zergers are coming for you god forbid they have to learn to play and break up their server breaking groups!!!!
    The one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
    1 man zerg

    twitch.tv/forcesiphon
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Ahahahaha red the zergers are coming for you god forbid they have to learn to play and break up their server breaking groups!!!!

    Actually, most of the people that run in the legitimate zergs are far from vocal on the forums. But, you seem to share the OPs mentality of baiting people to disagree with you to start (for the thousandth time) an argument on group size and what constitutes a zerg.

    We get it, people want everyone to know theyre hipster and never run more than 8 (or is it 3 now, has the number to be cool dropped? Are we officially at a solo only game now in mass pvp?) to fluff their epeen, but do you really need the attention and validation that desperately? Most of the people whose opinions youre desperately fishing for have left the game brah.
  • Force-Siphon
    Force-Siphon
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    Zheg you are the number 1 person to defend big groups on the forums we get it, you dont want your play style nerfed. We all go through it
    Edited by Force-Siphon on June 30, 2016 10:13PM
    The one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
    1 man zerg

    twitch.tv/forcesiphon
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    Why the....da fuu..


    No. Just no.
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Guise

    GUISE

    They got rocky road, and chocolate eruption....
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Zheg you are the number 1 person to defend zerging on the forums we get it, you dont want your play style nerfed. We all go through it

    Playstyle? VE is done, i havent played the game in days, and will be dropping off my time precipitously.

    What needs to be nerfed is the constant need for people to validate themselves or seek it from others because theyre worried people dont think theyre cool enough and feel obligated to run a constantly changing magic number. Between that and trying to meet the quota of 1vX videos on low level players, its a lot of pressure. If anything, people like you should be devoting your time to forming a support group to help such people. All of that stress does a number on people, and you should consider it a public service to aid them with your vast experience.

    But really, at this point any need for you to try and rehash the never-ending discussion of group play is pathetic and a cry of either boredom or attention. Please, tell us what valuable new insight you have to offer on the discussion.

    "Hurr hurr, youre a zerger. Dont mind my own zerg surfing though."

    Thanks, we are all smarter having heard that.
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
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    Zheg you are the number 1 person to defend big groups on the forums we get it, you dont want your play style nerfed. We all go through it
    Callig Zheg out for 'big group playstyle'? When he is someone who solo & small manned exclusively since launch and still does extensively?
    07hFRmZ.gif

    Hey, I have an idea! Let's institute a damage debuff penalty for solo and small group players that increases the fewer people you have in group! This game is advertised as mass scale Realm vs Realm after all. If you object, you're just QQing because you don't want your playstyle nerfed. Hur.
  • Force-Siphon
    Force-Siphon
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    Clearly you guys have been triggered.
    The one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
    1 man zerg

    twitch.tv/forcesiphon
  • zyk
    zyk
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    Clearly you guys have been triggered.

    It is obvious they don't know how to play Highlander Online.

    There can be only one, dummies!
  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    How many hours of small / solo play do I need to have an opinion on the matter? I can type up a resume if needed.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • Force-Siphon
    Force-Siphon
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    Okay I'm going to explain this to you guys so you can understand. ill first clarify by saying that I'm referring to people who run multiple raids and was making a half joke to my good friend reddington. No one mentioned you guys in this thread until you decided to go after me for doing this which clearly it was because you are triggered just like every time someone mentions zergers on the forums it instantly becomes about your guild which I actually have respect for despite always getting defensive and sometimes mean spirited (or former guild I guess? Contrary to popular belief not all of us follow what happens with your guild).

    I personally don't know or care if one of you are solo or in a group of 50 because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. and yes from what I've seen Zheg does post a lot about big groups things, I'm not bashing it again it's what I see and immedietly you all become defensive. I haven't come on the forums and bashed your guild, I haven't been in zone chat bashing your guild, what I think I keep to myself or with my friends.

    Quit getting defensive every time someone talks about zergers, if you aren't doing it why do you need to go after people? Just saying. I'm going to leave it at that because to be honest it's your problem.

    Edited by Force-Siphon on June 30, 2016 11:06PM
    The one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
    1 man zerg

    twitch.tv/forcesiphon
  • Hektik_V
    Hektik_V
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    Will this debuff apply to the "1vX'ers" that are conveniently placed beside the group or just the group itself? :trollface:
    Das Hektik
    Hektik V
    Hektiksaurus
    Hekspawn

    @HEKT1K
This discussion has been closed.