Delete

hakan

i couldnt express my thoughts well, thing i wanted to say was different.

anyway not a problem anymore

Asmael

Bad players will spam skills, but that'll get you nowhere if you intend to perform well, be it PvP or PvE.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Not sure what the problem is honestly. I'll use myself as an example. I open most fights with dark flare, dark flare, dark flare etc. then switch to radiant oppression. If I have the time maybe I'll open with entropy but then it's still DF into RO. I do that because they are the highest damage skills I have. If I'm in trouble I spam either breath of life or mist form. If I'm traveling I spam charging manuevers. If I'm searching for a ganker I spam inner light.

At that point I'm pretty much out of space on my skill bar.

There are two reasons why I spam the same ability over and over: either because it's the strongest ability for what I'm doing and there is a need in Cyrodill to be able to do a lot of things besides just damage. So therefore, I have a minimal amount of attacks and every thing else is either situational (but vital) or something that makes my two attacks stronger.

There is very little reason to mix up your attacks. I ask you this, would you rather have 5 mediocre attacks or 2 really strong ones?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Asmael wrote: »

Bad players will spam skills, but that'll get you nowhere if you intend to perform well, be it PvP or PvE.

Wrong. Bad players spam the wrong skills. Good players spam the best skill for the situation. Using a 5 skill rotation doesn't mean you're better than someone using just a few. This isn't ice skating. You don't get points for artistic interpretation.

AlnilamE

Role playing and PvP are two different animals (although I'm sure there's RP that happens in Cyrodiil.)

I would not judge the game's PvP by watching a video of RPers in Riften. And the opposite is also true.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

AlnilamE wrote: »

Role playing and PvP are two different animals (although I'm sure there's RP that happens in Cyrodiil.)

I would not judge the game's PvP by watching a video of RPers in Riften. And the opposite is also true.

So much this. At it's heart PVP boils down to being the person who can most quickly and efficiently burn down their target and move onto the next one while surviving the longest.

If you can do this just hitting A-A-A-A-A then more power to you.

Asmael

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Bad players will spam skills, but that'll get you nowhere if you intend to perform well, be it PvP or PvE.

Wrong. Bad players spam the wrong skills. Good players spam the best skill for the situation. Using a 5 skill rotation doesn't mean you're better than someone using just a few. This isn't ice skating. You don't get points for artistic interpretation.

So if you keep DoTs, debuffs and buffs up, then proceed to use a spammable, does that still count as spamming abilities?

Not in my book.

But please enjoy trying to kill someone who's not a bot using only 1 or 2 abilities.

Lysette

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

Ep1kMalware

Asmael wrote: »

Bad players will spam skills, but that'll get you nowhere if you intend to perform well, be it PvP or PvE.

This. You see alot of it in pvp, sometimes pve, but I think I've seen it most in pvp. If you want to quit because of how others play the game go right on ahead

vyndral13preub18_ESO

It really isnt that much of a surprise with the lag in pvp. Most the time im lagged so bad i not even sure what is going on. It is hard to use any sort of plan or rotation, so i spam and hope for the best.

Lysette

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

It really isnt that much of a surprise with the lag in pvp. Most the time im lagged so bad i not even sure what is going on. It is hard to use any sort of plan or rotation, so i spam and hope for the best.

What basically means, Mr. Wrobel did a p*ss poor job with this combat system.

BlackSparrow

As others have pointed out, pvp is hyper competitive, so, yeah, there is skill spamming. However, if you're into roleplay and not worried about outputting as much damage as possible as fast as possible, you can play however you want. That's the beauty of this game... you can play it with your own style, at your own pace.

Lysette

BlackSparrow wrote: »

As others have pointed out, pvp is hyper competitive, so, yeah, there is skill spamming. However, if you're into roleplay and not worried about outputting as much damage as possible as fast as possible, you can play however you want. That's the beauty of this game... you can play it with your own style, at your own pace.

... if you avoid pvp - that is the simple truth. but If you want to pvp, you will have to do it just like anyone else or you will not be competitve. That is how I see it. I blame Mr. Wrobel for it, and as well for the lag, because I think, that the core of the combat system is causing player behavior which leads to the lag - it is a design flaw, not a technical problem.

AlnilamE

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

Lysette

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

I would be surprised if there were many casual friendly mmos out there that had much of a pvp death penalty.

Im surprised that actually let your stones be looted/lost. That is more then most casual mmos do.

Lysette

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

I would be surprised if there were many casual friendly mmos out there that had much of a pvp death penalty.

Im surprised that actually let your stones be looted/lost. That is more then most casual mmos do.

Well, EVE online - you will loose your ship - and if your pod gets shot down as well, you will loose all your implants as well. You will not be back on the battle field in short, you will be in your medical clone - eventually far away and you will have to get a new ship before you can even think to go back into battle. You might loose billions of isk in value from getting killed and the most important - you will be out of the fight, it will take you long if at all, to join the fight again - combat has meaning there.

And it is casual friendly, because you gain skill over time, if you are online or not. it cannot get more casual friendly IMO. But casual friendly does not meant hat the game would have to be easy, in fact it is highly complex with a steep learning curve - but still it is well playable by casuals, if they make an effort to learn the mechanics and what all the modules do and how to fit their ships effectively. And there are thousands of modules of all kind, it is not learnt in a short amount of time - it takes years to master your niche of expertise.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Lysette

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

Not sure how gender has anything to do with it but that aside, even what you don't like is pretty situational.

Maybe they have a forward camp. Pop an Invisibilty potion and burn it down.

Maybe you are attacking a keep that keeps respawning players. Go assault the connecting keep so players cannot travel there.

Conversely have you ever lamented having to ride your mount for 5, 10, or 20 minutes to get back to the fight? It's because someone did something along the lines of what I just described. If you get angry at that (don't know if you do or not) then that would be hypocritical.

Also, how long should they "stay dead"? I doubt you mean forever because then Cyrodill would have a population of 1. Almost every game has a respawn time. Even if it was "just" five minutes ZOS would get roasted for wasting their customer's time.

I get that you like RPing, but in a competitive environment people will do what they feel like they need to do to win. Some people have a line they won't cross, some don't. That's not an ESO issue, that's a human issue.

Lysette

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

Not sure how gender has anything to do with it but that aside, even what you don't like is pretty situational.

Maybe they have a forward camp. Pop an Invisibilty potion and burn it down.

Maybe you are attacking a keep that keeps respawning players. Go assault the connecting keep so players cannot travel there.

Conversely have you ever lamented having to ride your mount for 5, 10, or 20 minutes to get back to the fight? It's because someone did something along the lines of what I just described. If you get angry at that (don't know if you do or not) then that would be hypocritical.

Also, how long should they "stay dead"? I doubt you mean forever because then Cyrodill would have a population of 1. Almost every game has a respawn time. Even if it was "just" five minutes ZOS would get roasted for wasting their customer's time.

I get that you like RPing, but in a competitive environment people will do what they feel like they need to do to win. Some people have a line they won't cross, some don't. That's not an ESO issue, that's a human issue.

No, I am not getting angry - if I fail, then I fail, and the enemy was the better one - I have no problem with it. That is as well the beauty of combat in EVE - we fight each other, but after the fight, one will say "good fight" in chat - a lot do that at least, and if one has fought someone, who is far less skilled, one might even consider to give him some money to get a new ship. It is not that toxic there - even a lot can be lost in value, I have rarely encountered someone who gets really angry afterwards - well, some newer players might, but they will get some money to buy a new ship and if they want even some advice, where they can do better. That is the combat style, I like.

Edit: well, if it takes them 15 minutes, to get back into the fight, that would be good IMO - I will think about your advice, maybe I can find something in it for me to do, what has some value after all. Thanks for sharing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

Not sure how gender has anything to do with it but that aside, even what you don't like is pretty situational.

Maybe they have a forward camp. Pop an Invisibilty potion and burn it down.

Maybe you are attacking a keep that keeps respawning players. Go assault the connecting keep so players cannot travel there.

Conversely have you ever lamented having to ride your mount for 5, 10, or 20 minutes to get back to the fight? It's because someone did something along the lines of what I just described. If you get angry at that (don't know if you do or not) then that would be hypocritical.

Also, how long should they "stay dead"? I doubt you mean forever because then Cyrodill would have a population of 1. Almost every game has a respawn time. Even if it was "just" five minutes ZOS would get roasted for wasting their customer's time.

I get that you like RPing, but in a competitive environment people will do what they feel like they need to do to win. Some people have a line they won't cross, some don't. That's not an ESO issue, that's a human issue.

No, I am not getting angry - if I fail, then I fail, and the enemy was the better one - I have no problem with it. That is as well the beauty of combat in EVE - we fight each other, but after the fight, one will say "good fight" in chat - a lot do that at least, and if one has fought someone, who is far less skilled, one might even consider to give him some money to get a new ship. It is not that toxic there - even a lot can be lost in value, I have rarely encountered someone who gets really angry afterwards - well, some newer players might, but they will get some money to buy a new ship and if they want even some advice, where they can do better. That is the combat style, I like.

Edit: well, if it takes them 15 minutes, to get back into the fight, that would be good IMO - I will think about your advice, maybe I can find something in it for me to do, what has some value after all. Thanks for sharing.

No problem. I can't speak for Eve Online, but can say for certain what you describe is a PC related issue on ESO.

As a console player I think I've only gotten 2 messages in a year from angry players. It's a bit of a pain to stop everything, search their Gamertag and spell out some hate mail on a non qwerty virtual keyboard. I'm sure there are people that still do it, but that is the upside of missing that feature. Meanwhile, as someone who welcomes a good fight and saves the tea bagging for only those who truly deserve it, I would love to have an easier way to tell my opponents great job.

That said, don't let the toxicity get to you. Every game has good and bad apples. It's gonna happen. Good luck to you!

Lysette

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

Not sure how gender has anything to do with it but that aside, even what you don't like is pretty situational.

Maybe they have a forward camp. Pop an Invisibilty potion and burn it down.

Maybe you are attacking a keep that keeps respawning players. Go assault the connecting keep so players cannot travel there.

Conversely have you ever lamented having to ride your mount for 5, 10, or 20 minutes to get back to the fight? It's because someone did something along the lines of what I just described. If you get angry at that (don't know if you do or not) then that would be hypocritical.

Also, how long should they "stay dead"? I doubt you mean forever because then Cyrodill would have a population of 1. Almost every game has a respawn time. Even if it was "just" five minutes ZOS would get roasted for wasting their customer's time.

I get that you like RPing, but in a competitive environment people will do what they feel like they need to do to win. Some people have a line they won't cross, some don't. That's not an ESO issue, that's a human issue.

No, I am not getting angry - if I fail, then I fail, and the enemy was the better one - I have no problem with it. That is as well the beauty of combat in EVE - we fight each other, but after the fight, one will say "good fight" in chat - a lot do that at least, and if one has fought someone, who is far less skilled, one might even consider to give him some money to get a new ship. It is not that toxic there - even a lot can be lost in value, I have rarely encountered someone who gets really angry afterwards - well, some newer players might, but they will get some money to buy a new ship and if they want even some advice, where they can do better. That is the combat style, I like.

Edit: well, if it takes them 15 minutes, to get back into the fight, that would be good IMO - I will think about your advice, maybe I can find something in it for me to do, what has some value after all. Thanks for sharing.

No problem. I can't speak for Eve Online, but can say for certain what you describe is a PC related issue on ESO.

As a console player I think I've only gotten 2 messages in a year from angry players. It's a bit of a pain to stop everything, search their Gamertag and spell out some hate mail on a non qwerty virtual keyboard. I'm sure there are people that still do it, but that is the upside of missing that feature. Meanwhile, as someone who welcomes a good fight and saves the tea bagging for only those who truly deserve it, I would love to have an easier way to tell my opponents great job.

That said, don't let the toxicity get to you. Every game has good and bad apples. It's gonna happen. Good luck to you!

Pah, tea bagging, I am not worried about that - all I think with it is that he is an immature person, who thinks he could harm me in any way with it. But he can't. I just consider him to be an immature teenager, and that's it.

ADarklore

I'm a bit surprised that someone coming to an MMO somehow expects to go to PvP and fight other players and expect it to be like a 'gentleman's game'... "you shoot me, then I'll shoot you, then you shoot me..." kind of thing. This isn't a single player game, and unlike a single player game, when it comes to PvP you can't really RP when playing against other players with their own playstyle. Also, because of the 'balancing issues' with an MMO, not all skills are equal and the best skills tend to be the ones players spam repeatedly... it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can understand the OP - I do not like the way pvp is in this game as well - most of it is spamming AoE effects, it is not really a fight person vs. person - it is spamming AoE and hope for the best - it is not something I would be interested in this way, and I guess that is as well the impression the OP got from PvP in ESO.

It really depends, though. Of course, if we are talking about a siege or fighting a group, of course AoE is going to be more efficient than picking targets out one by one (though there are exceptions).

But in many cases you end up in small scale fights where taking advantage of the terrain and knowing how to counter your opponent's skills is more important than spamming a skill.

But in a large scale battle, you try to kill as many people as you can as quickly as possible. There is not strategic advantage to challenging one player to a duel in those circumstances.

And here is the next really annoying thing in the combat system - you kill them, but they do not stay dead - they just resurrect and are there again - with no penalty at all - their gear is not even damaged. There is no point in fighting at all for me. What can be more stupid than to fight an enemy who will be back in short and did not even have a disadvantage from getting killed. Pointless combat, just for the sake of fighting - no, that is crap IMO.

It's not pointless. You get Alliance Points. AP gets you gear. Gear gets you better or can be sold to get gold or deconstructed for mats. If you kill a good player you can get as many AP as you can defending a keep.

That said though, the guy you quoted nailed it. Cyrodill is the most situational place imaginable. If you're taking the time to put a massive rotation of skills on your bar and can pull them off then great! But what happens when you need to move fast? When you need to absorb damage? When you need to find a lurking Nightblade? What happens when your 1 on 1 fight just became 20 on 20? Can you adjust in the blink of an eye? What about when it's lagging, do you have a plan for that? I can answer yes to all of these questions.

In case you're wondering lightning staffs with fire enchants work great when the lag sets in. Hold attack, let it find your opponent for you. Applies a DOT and then you can execute them even in a sea of colors.

Maybe it is just, that I hate the idea of killed enemies to join the fight again in a short amount of time - that is a sisyphean task to fight then - I am not really fond of that - I want the enemy to stay dead, if I have fought him and won - if he is just there again, what is the point?- I would not feel accomplished at all. This is my main concern with this system.

And as a woman, I have no pleasure in fighting just for the sake of fighting - if I fight, I want to win, and I cannot win in that system, the enemy is not staying dead, but is back in short. Pointless, just for the sake of fighting, men love it, but I as a woman cannot find anything appealing in that.

Not sure how gender has anything to do with it but that aside, even what you don't like is pretty situational.

Maybe they have a forward camp. Pop an Invisibilty potion and burn it down.

Maybe you are attacking a keep that keeps respawning players. Go assault the connecting keep so players cannot travel there.

Conversely have you ever lamented having to ride your mount for 5, 10, or 20 minutes to get back to the fight? It's because someone did something along the lines of what I just described. If you get angry at that (don't know if you do or not) then that would be hypocritical.

Also, how long should they "stay dead"? I doubt you mean forever because then Cyrodill would have a population of 1. Almost every game has a respawn time. Even if it was "just" five minutes ZOS would get roasted for wasting their customer's time.

I get that you like RPing, but in a competitive environment people will do what they feel like they need to do to win. Some people have a line they won't cross, some don't. That's not an ESO issue, that's a human issue.

No, I am not getting angry - if I fail, then I fail, and the enemy was the better one - I have no problem with it. That is as well the beauty of combat in EVE - we fight each other, but after the fight, one will say "good fight" in chat - a lot do that at least, and if one has fought someone, who is far less skilled, one might even consider to give him some money to get a new ship. It is not that toxic there - even a lot can be lost in value, I have rarely encountered someone who gets really angry afterwards - well, some newer players might, but they will get some money to buy a new ship and if they want even some advice, where they can do better. That is the combat style, I like.

Edit: well, if it takes them 15 minutes, to get back into the fight, that would be good IMO - I will think about your advice, maybe I can find something in it for me to do, what has some value after all. Thanks for sharing.

No problem. I can't speak for Eve Online, but can say for certain what you describe is a PC related issue on ESO.

As a console player I think I've only gotten 2 messages in a year from angry players. It's a bit of a pain to stop everything, search their Gamertag and spell out some hate mail on a non qwerty virtual keyboard. I'm sure there are people that still do it, but that is the upside of missing that feature. Meanwhile, as someone who welcomes a good fight and saves the tea bagging for only those who truly deserve it, I would love to have an easier way to tell my opponents great job.

That said, don't let the toxicity get to you. Every game has good and bad apples. It's gonna happen. Good luck to you!

Pah, tea bagging, I am not worried about that - all I think with it is that he is an immature person, who thinks he could harm me in any way with it. But he can't. I just consider him to be an immature teenager, and that's it.

Lately it's been my go to response for wall jumpers. After I kill them of course.

Lysette

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised that someone coming to an MMO somehow expects to go to PvP and fight other players and expect it to be like a 'gentleman's game'... "you shoot me, then I'll shoot you, then you shoot me..." kind of thing. This isn't a single player game, and unlike a single player game, when it comes to PvP you can't really RP when playing against other players with their own playstyle. Also, because of the 'balancing issues' with an MMO, not all skills are equal and the best skills tend to be the ones players spam repeatedly... it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

It is because I come from an MMO, where we fight in fleets - where there is order and a chain of command. Not a mess, like in ESO. I am used to strategícal combat, where a fleet is organized in wings, and wings in squads, and all those have their commanders in charge, and ESO combat is totally different to that.

ADarklore

Lysette wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised that someone coming to an MMO somehow expects to go to PvP and fight other players and expect it to be like a 'gentleman's game'... "you shoot me, then I'll shoot you, then you shoot me..." kind of thing. This isn't a single player game, and unlike a single player game, when it comes to PvP you can't really RP when playing against other players with their own playstyle. Also, because of the 'balancing issues' with an MMO, not all skills are equal and the best skills tend to be the ones players spam repeatedly... it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

It is because I come from an MMO, where we fight in fleets - where there is order and a chain of command. Not a mess, like in ESO.

Ah well, I came from playing DCUO and it was a mess just like ESO.

Ghettokid

If you don't like spamming skills, then dont. If you want to succeed in PvP, then spam.

~Spam or get spammed

Lysette

Ghettokid wrote: »

If you don't like spamming skills, then dont. If you want to succeed in PvP, then spam.

~Spam or get spammed

Looks more like that I will do pvp in a game, where I actually like the pvp, and stay in PvE in ESO. I might try those suggestions though, but I doubt that I will have fun with it in ESO. It does not matter really, I do not have to pvp in this game. And like I pointed out, I see no "success" in the way pvp is in ESO - to me it remains pointless and a win is basically meaningless anyway - it has no impact whatsoever.

KingDuncanVII

Spam or get spammed? Lol. You cannot kill a good PvP player with just a spam. Especially if they have access to a damage shield. You'll waste your resources. I, honestly, think spamming is as boring as playing a tank (no offense to the awesome tanks out there).

In PvP, I usually open with my Bow bar and start with a Heavy Bow Attack followed by a Poison Injection to get a DoT on them. I'd then switch to my Dual Wield bar, throw my Shrouded Dagger to give me the 20% Weapon Damage increase for 20 seconds. Afterwards, I'd gap close using my Ambush followed by a Blood Craze slash (putting, yet, another type of DoT effect on my enemy - now there's two eating away at them). Then, I'd weave in my Light Dual Wield attacks with my Surprise Attack until I get them in the 25% Health range. Lastly, I'd finish them off with my Killer's Blade execution. Throughout this rotation, I am using Shuffle for 20% Dodge Chance, Relentless Focus for 8% Weapon Damage increase and Stamina Recovery bonus, my Mass Hysteria (CC) every 6 seconds or so to make it hard for my enemy to use abilities, and Vigor to keep my Health recovering constantly.

That is an example of how good PvPers perform. This is a style that I use and there are plenty others that have their own style (in different classes as well) that is effective. Spamming is not a style, it's a crutch. Once you're able to move past the spamming mentality, you will become a deadly force in Cyrodiil.

nine9six

I always wanted Combat to make more use of actual Light and Heavy attacks and Blocking. Nowhere close to that.

I would imagine for the ADHD Generation that wouldn't be very much fun, though.