ESO Future for hardcore players

Mitoice

ADarklore wrote: »

Sadly, all this talk about creating a system with variable levels is already moot as ESO is going with the "battle leveling" system on ALL their content... they aren't going to go back through and spend even more time on older content making them customizable. They've said many times over that 'players prefer the battle leveled zones' so this is what they're going with. As noted numerous times, they clearly feel the majority of players are casual players who want a casual experience, and their choices as of late further demonstrate that. What this means is that they aren't going to spend any more time changing open-world content to support an extremely small minority of players; clearly they feel if those players want a challenge, they should be doing the Veteran dungeons.

@ADarklore

You do know that Veteran dungeons are veeeeeery easy now right?
We had challenging dungeons but they all got nerfed, we are left with VMael as our only challenging dungeon, and every night before going to sleep I pray so this wont get easy nerf as all the vdungeons

ShedsHisTail

Mitoice wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Sadly, all this talk about creating a system with variable levels is already moot as ESO is going with the "battle leveling" system on ALL their content... they aren't going to go back through and spend even more time on older content making them customizable. They've said many times over that 'players prefer the battle leveled zones' so this is what they're going with. As noted numerous times, they clearly feel the majority of players are casual players who want a casual experience, and their choices as of late further demonstrate that. What this means is that they aren't going to spend any more time changing open-world content to support an extremely small minority of players; clearly they feel if those players want a challenge, they should be doing the Veteran dungeons.

@ADarklore

You do know that Veteran dungeons are veeeeeery easy now right?
We had challenging dungeons but they all got nerfed, we are left with VMael as our only challenging dungeon, and every night before going to sleep I pray so this wont get easy nerf as all the vdungeons

Vet dungeons are easy now, partly, because people have been doing them for a while.
There's experience and gearing to factor into it.

Once you learn the mechanics and g t better gear, everything gets easier. As more of the population learns the mechanics and gets the gear, it gets even easier still. Then you end up where we are now; with folks saying that content which used to be hard is now too easy when, with a few exceptions, none of it has changed.

Thankfully, ZOS is realizing this and introducing new, more challenging content. And eventually they'll raise the level cap, everyone will get to max level without max-level gear, and Scaled Vet Fungal Grotto will be more difficult again.

Lysette

I think another argument, why they might not want to make harder content is, that anyone could voluntarily use less CP or assign less skill points or use lower tier armor and weapons and it would be challenging - now with this argument, why should they put in effort, if the player is unwilling to adjust the difficulty by himself by making these changes.

Draxys

Zos don't want hardcore players that understand game mechanics and attempt to give them good advice. They want the casual players who will subscribe for the next 12 years while they finish the game, playing 1-2 hours a night and taking their time. They've made that abundantly clear with all the changes since the unnecessary 1.6 overhaul that no one asked for.

Wolfshead

Mitoice wrote: »

First of all, I want to start this thread by saying I love this game, but the lack of objectives or things to do, is making me take a break from this game for several months or at least till housing comes, I’m considered a Hardcore gamer, a player that logs in every day for several hours and spent more tan 500 bucks in this game, but every new expansión feels weaker and weaker.

I want to continue playing this game daily, but ZOS is trying his best to convert me into a softcore gamer, one that logs in once a week, I don’t have anything else to do in this game besides creating more alts,

Things that make this game lose appeal to hardcore gamers:

 

-Level cap is hardly ever increased – Im in the 600 champs, this means im gonna be over the cap for several expansións to come.

 

- Same ol Gear - Still have the same gear since Wrothgar (Julianos) – There’s hardly any need to find new gear since every gear created is purely situational like vicious death or Spell Power Cure. Maelstrom weapons are gonna be the best weapons for a looooong time.

 

- Lack of objectives – You have a nice open end world without any good objectives, put some time objectives to dungeons, more tasks in PVP etc.

 

- Lack of Challenge – I can basically one shot anything besides world bosses or 3 squared bosses, Dark Bortherhood was soooo boring for me cause everything died without a challenge, no matter how many mistakes I make, they can barely hit me. The only challenge left in this game is PVP, VMoL, Maelstrom (Veteran).

 

-        Hacking Exploits – Lack of action by ZOS

 

After this, Ive decided to take a break from ESO till they added enough stuff for me to have something to do maybe 1-2 years and then come back or maybe my problem was that I’ve played so much of this game that now I have nothing else to do and I have to play it like ZOS wants me to, once per month.

Im not hardcore player not anymore atlest i see myself as casual player but even i see that lack of content and honest it feel like it not worth spend more few hours on weekend to play which is a shame for i also do love ESO alot but honest DB DLC take less then 2 week complete which i think is sad and you only Killing contract to do after you done with questline and when hit lvl 12 in DB skills tree you are more or less done with DLC.

Serious ZoS should take look how other mmo company do to keep there player play more then just few week and honest if that i think we get in next DLC shadows of the Hist if we only get 2 new dungeon and no other content i fear we will see people leave then game.

phobossion

Wolfshead wrote: »

Serious ZoS should take look how other mmo company do to keep there player play more then just few week and honest if that i think we get in next DLC shadows of the Hist if we only get 2 new dungeon and no other content i fear we will see people leave then game.

You mean they should inspire themselves at Blizzard and not release any content for more than a year, to keep people playing?

Kalifas

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

- Lack of Challenge – I can basically one shot anything besides world bosses or 3 squared bosses, Dark Bortherhood was soooo boring for me cause everything died without a challenge, no matter how many mistakes I make, they can barely hit me. The only challenge left in this game is PVP, VMoL, Maelstrom (Veteran).

This is the primary flaw with the game that drives me away. Already, I spend less and less of my time in ESO. Recently I even took a hiatus -- of 2 months. There is a lot to be said on the topic, and not enough calm in me to dive into it. Just read the concept linked in my signature. Implement that and I might find some joy in the combat

As to the issue of challenge...
I agree, at end game, there's not a lot to do if you prefer solo play and dislike PvP.

What would be great is if ZOS added some "Veteran" quests to the various Guild Lines. Semi Short daily or weekly quests issued by the Fighters or Mages guild (since they need some love anyway) which are more in line with the level of challenge the game had at release, or in Beta.

Guild contracts that could only be completed Solo, and maybe provide a special guild currency which you could use to purchase guild-specific motifs or gear. Of course, these would only be made available to players of level 50 who have already completed the guild storyline.

Gidorick had a thread talking about this and there are some good ideas with anchors and quests
Perpetual Fighters/Mages Guild Quest

DaveMoeDee

Mitoice wrote: »

Thats how I felt when I saw a new mount at 4k crowns but the dlc costing 2k, felt like ZOS was putting more effort in making new mounta than new dlcs

Not sure how much effort they spend when the 4k mount was really ugly and looked horrible in motion.

Draxys wrote: »

Zos don't want hardcore players that understand game mechanics and attempt to give them good advice. They want the casual players who will subscribe for the next 12 years while they finish the game, playing 1-2 hours a night and taking their time. They've made that abundantly clear with all the changes since the unnecessary 1.6 overhaul that no one asked for.

I can't agree with you. The "casual" players you talk about don't want any rebalancing, and we see constant rebalancing in this game. I consider all that re-"balancing" unnecessary changes.

Ffastyl

Lysette wrote: »

I think another argument, why they might not want to make harder content is, that anyone could voluntarily use less CP or assign less skill points or use lower tier armor and weapons and it would be challenging - now with this argument, why should they put in effort, if the player is unwilling to adjust the difficulty by himself by making these changes.

As someone who seeks challenge, I find this argument the most... vulgar to my senses. Purposefully gimping myself to make content "harder?" That is an insult to my skill. I want harder content to push my skill ceiling; suggesting to hold back is counter-intuitive to whole process of increasing player skill.

I always find personal insult in this line of argument.

Draxys

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

Thats how I felt when I saw a new mount at 4k crowns but the dlc costing 2k, felt like ZOS was putting more effort in making new mounta than new dlcs

Not sure how much effort they spend when the 4k mount was really ugly and looked horrible in motion.

Draxys wrote: »

Zos don't want hardcore players that understand game mechanics and attempt to give them good advice. They want the casual players who will subscribe for the next 12 years while they finish the game, playing 1-2 hours a night and taking their time. They've made that abundantly clear with all the changes since the unnecessary 1.6 overhaul that no one asked for.

I can't agree with you. The "casual" players you talk about don't want any rebalancing, and we see constant rebalancing in this game. I consider all that re-"balancing" unnecessary changes.

Yea but the thing is, I've been in multiple "hardcore" (or at the very least dedicated players) guilds, and they paid zero attention to our feedback from our guild meetings. And they were the ones to reach out to us.

A lot of the changes that hardcore players recommended are not acknowledged, and instead they foster game mechanics that cater to people who make no effort to understand the game, and these mechanics are what I would describe as "overleveling the playing field". That's how we arrived at the 2.0 version of the game- disregarding experienced players advice. I know of very very few great players left in the game because of this.

Jaronking

ADarklore wrote: »

Sadly, all this talk about creating a system with variable levels is already moot as ESO is going with the "battle leveling" system on ALL their content... they aren't going to go back through and spend even more time on older content making them customizable. They've said many times over that 'players prefer the battle leveled zones' so this is what they're going with. As noted numerous times, they clearly feel the majority of players are casual players who want a casual experience, and their choices as of late further demonstrate that. What this means is that they aren't going to spend any more time changing open-world content to support an extremely small minority of players; clearly they feel if those players want a challenge, they should be doing the Veteran dungeons.

You can't because the Nerf the dam Vet Dungeons.What's the point of doing it for the challenge if their just planning to Nerf the content.

swirve

You mean a grindc2win player (thats what i get from your CP comment)...hardcore to me is some1 who goes at all content and is not concerned you cant overgear things..

Ffastyl

Ffastyl wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think another argument, why they might not want to make harder content is, that anyone could voluntarily use less CP or assign less skill points or use lower tier armor and weapons and it would be challenging - now with this argument, why should they put in effort, if the player is unwilling to adjust the difficulty by himself by making these changes.

As someone who seeks challenge, I find this argument the most... vulgar to my senses. Purposefully gimping myself to make content "harder?" That is an insult to my skill. I want harder content to push my skill ceiling; suggesting to hold back is counter-intuitive to whole process of increasing player skill.

I always find personal insult in this line of argument.

The promise of challenge is not challenge itself. It is the anticipation of what comes after. That next area, that next chest, that next sword you never got to because something intimidating, threatening and deadly stood in your way. The euphoric rush when you can finally claim "I did it," when you can finally claim what lies beyond. This sword I have, I earned. This sword I have, has a story behind it.

Gimping yourself for challenge... to what end? The reward is not there. The anticipation of something more... when there is none. To what use is the glory, when others have tread your path a thousand times? To what use is fortune, when it need be cast aside? To what use is calm, when strife has become your goal?

SickDuck

Crowzer wrote: »

ESO not aim hardcore gamers and it's a good thing.

Aim and support not the same thing. Throwing a bone now and then is not that hard.

Lysette

Ffastyl wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think another argument, why they might not want to make harder content is, that anyone could voluntarily use less CP or assign less skill points or use lower tier armor and weapons and it would be challenging - now with this argument, why should they put in effort, if the player is unwilling to adjust the difficulty by himself by making these changes.

As someone who seeks challenge, I find this argument the most... vulgar to my senses. Purposefully gimping myself to make content "harder?" That is an insult to my skill. I want harder content to push my skill ceiling; suggesting to hold back is counter-intuitive to whole process of increasing player skill.

I always find personal insult in this line of argument.

Well, I have said it in other places, but I will repeat it. I think, a hero is not the one with the best gear possible who does exactly what is to be expected with this gear - that is not a heroic deed, but just to be expected. But if he can do it with just average gear, where it is not to be expected, but exceptional and courageous, and he manages it against all odds, that is something else. Heroes are not those with the best gear, where success was to be expected, but the average guy, who achieves something exceptional against all odds - masters a challenge - someone in best gear might call it a challenge, but it is just to be expected - seen from this perspective, you might reconsider your general rejection of my suggestion.

Lysette

Ffastyl wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think another argument, why they might not want to make harder content is, that anyone could voluntarily use less CP or assign less skill points or use lower tier armor and weapons and it would be challenging - now with this argument, why should they put in effort, if the player is unwilling to adjust the difficulty by himself by making these changes.

As someone who seeks challenge, I find this argument the most... vulgar to my senses. Purposefully gimping myself to make content "harder?" That is an insult to my skill. I want harder content to push my skill ceiling; suggesting to hold back is counter-intuitive to whole process of increasing player skill.

I always find personal insult in this line of argument.

The promise of challenge is not challenge itself. It is the anticipation of what comes after. That next area, that next chest, that next sword you never got to because something intimidating, threatening and deadly stood in your way. The euphoric rush when you can finally claim "I did it," when you can finally claim what lies beyond. This sword I have, I earned. This sword I have, has a story behind it.

Gimping yourself for challenge... to what end? The reward is not there. The anticipation of something more... when there is none. To what use is the glory, when others have tread your path a thousand times? To what use is fortune, when it need be cast aside? To what use is calm, when strife has become your goal?

Well, then call it for what it actually is - you do not want a challenge, you want better rewards - this is your whole point. Because if it would be just the challenge, my suggestion would perfectly work. But you seem not to see, that any better reward will lead to just the same thing, which you complained about in the first place - you get better gear, now it is to be expected that you master the "challenge" - because it is none anymore - and you want again better gear and a challenge - which then again, once mastered, will again require more challenge - this is power creep, and has to be avoided.

The reward with my suggestion is, that you were able to accomplish it against all odds - a really heroic deed. This is reward in itself, it does not require better gear as reward - do real world heroes who did outstanding acts of heroism get better gear?- No, they get the medal of honor or another symbolic item. This is the kind of reward, which will not lead to more power creep.

Or take an example in my field of work - scientific research - what can we expect for our heroic deed, to have unraveled a mystery about nature or even accomplished to create something what never was in nature before, which no other human being could do before, what no other human has ever achieved to unravel?- If we are lucky, we might get the Nobel Prize, but normally it is at best that we are recognized in the scientific community, but nowadays it requires something really outstanding for it to happen. Still it is a challenge and exciting to do research and add to the knowledge of the world. And the reward is, to be the first person on earth to have mastered this challenge. It is reward in itself, to have added to the knowledge of the world, to have accomplished something, what many tried, but you are the first to actually do it.

Ffastyl

Lysette wrote: »

Well, then call it for what it actually is - you do not want a challenge, you want better rewards - this is your whole point.

The rewards are not what need to be improved, its the sense of ownership over them. Material possessions, though the focus of my reply, is not my goal. I am driven by curiosity: I want to uncover the story of the world. ESO already provides ample reward with scattered texts, environmental storytelling and a generally well built world. But the lack of challenge makes it "tell, don't show" - I feel more like a tourist than an explorer in regards to combat. Its a sensation I never knew about until I was exposed to it: how difficulty affects immersion. When the monsters are as deadly as everyone says they are, I feel like

Lysette wrote: »

the average guy, who achieves something exceptional against all odds.

The world is more real when I believe I am average. Not a special case or a chosen one. When fleeing is a valid tactic. The reward I really want is what you describe. But undergearing yourself to accomplish that goes against player progression and undermines the experience. It is difficult to buy into an experience when you are knowingly hampering yourself. The victories feel a bit hollow.

Lysette wrote: »

But you seem not to see, that any better reward will lead to just the same thing, which you complained about in the first place - you get better gear, now it is to be expected that you master the "challenge" - because it is none anymore - and you want again better gear and a challenge - which then again, once mastered, will again require more challenge - this is power creep, and has to be avoided.

I did not say the sword was better, but that it has a story behind it. When people ask "Where did you get that blade?" or "That looks cool," you can tell them of the ordeal and feel proud for owning it -- even if you never use the sword. The "badge of honor" comes in many forms: information, wealth, trophies, equipment and memories.

Lysette

Ffastyl wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, then call it for what it actually is - you do not want a challenge, you want better rewards - this is your whole point.

The rewards are not what need to be improved, its the sense of ownership over them. Material possessions, though the focus of my reply, is not my goal. I am driven by curiosity: I want to uncover the story of the world. ESO already provides ample reward with scattered texts, environmental storytelling and a generally well built world. But the lack of challenge makes it "tell, don't show" - I feel more like a tourist than an explorer in regards to combat. Its a sensation I never knew about until I was exposed to it: how difficulty affects immersion. When the monsters are as deadly as everyone says they are, I feel like

Lysette wrote: »

the average guy, who achieves something exceptional against all odds.

The world is more real when I believe I am average. Not a special case or a chosen one. When fleeing is a valid tactic. The reward I really want is what you describe. But undergearing yourself to accomplish that goes against player progression and undermines the experience. It is difficult to buy into an experience when you are knowingly hampering yourself. The victories feel a bit hollow.

Lysette wrote: »

But you seem not to see, that any better reward will lead to just the same thing, which you complained about in the first place - you get better gear, now it is to be expected that you master the "challenge" - because it is none anymore - and you want again better gear and a challenge - which then again, once mastered, will again require more challenge - this is power creep, and has to be avoided.

I did not say the sword was better, but that it has a story behind it. When people ask "Where did you get that blade?" or "That looks cool," you can tell them of the ordeal and feel proud for owning it -- even if you never use the sword. The "badge of honor" comes in many forms: information, wealth, trophies, equipment and memories.

Yeah, I can understand that - it is like when we find out about something in nature, which was never mentioned before in another scientific paper and we can claim to be the first to have unraveled it. It is not a big thing for the world at all, and often not even recognized by the public, but it comes with the good feeling, to have contributed and it will help other scientists in their work and eventually their work will again benefit our work - there is not much of a reward, other than that.

And some of this work falls as well into the category "to be expected", because we have the gear and the staff to do it - even we might be the first to do it, but it was to be expected somewhat. But then there are those, who do something outstanding, where it is not to be expected - like Stephen Hawking, who is just using his mind only to unravel mysteries of nature. Same with Einstein, he did thought experiments and concluded from those and in the end came to the theory of special and general relativity - among others, he did a lot more than just this. He was recognized even by the public - this is kind of the medal of honor in a scientific sense - to be recognized by the public. But in a way we do not even want to be recognized too much, because then we have to give talks and interviews and time is taken from what we like most - to continue to unravel mysteries and create things, the world has never seen before or change lifeforms or whatever is on our mind.

Callous2208

Wolfshead wrote: »

Mitoice wrote: »

First of all, I want to start this thread by saying I love this game, but the lack of objectives or things to do, is making me take a break from this game for several months or at least till housing comes, I’m considered a Hardcore gamer, a player that logs in every day for several hours and spent more tan 500 bucks in this game, but every new expansión feels weaker and weaker.

I want to continue playing this game daily, but ZOS is trying his best to convert me into a softcore gamer, one that logs in once a week, I don’t have anything else to do in this game besides creating more alts,

Things that make this game lose appeal to hardcore gamers:

 

-Level cap is hardly ever increased – Im in the 600 champs, this means im gonna be over the cap for several expansións to come.

 

- Same ol Gear - Still have the same gear since Wrothgar (Julianos) – There’s hardly any need to find new gear since every gear created is purely situational like vicious death or Spell Power Cure. Maelstrom weapons are gonna be the best weapons for a looooong time.

 

- Lack of objectives – You have a nice open end world without any good objectives, put some time objectives to dungeons, more tasks in PVP etc.

 

- Lack of Challenge – I can basically one shot anything besides world bosses or 3 squared bosses, Dark Bortherhood was soooo boring for me cause everything died without a challenge, no matter how many mistakes I make, they can barely hit me. The only challenge left in this game is PVP, VMoL, Maelstrom (Veteran).

 

-        Hacking Exploits – Lack of action by ZOS

 

After this, Ive decided to take a break from ESO till they added enough stuff for me to have something to do maybe 1-2 years and then come back or maybe my problem was that I’ve played so much of this game that now I have nothing else to do and I have to play it like ZOS wants me to, once per month.

Im not hardcore player not anymore atlest i see myself as casual player but even i see that lack of content and honest it feel like it not worth spend more few hours on weekend to play which is a shame for i also do love ESO alot but honest DB DLC take less then 2 week complete which i think is sad and you only Killing contract to do after you done with questline and when hit lvl 12 in DB skills tree you are more or less done with DLC.

Serious ZoS should take look how other mmo company do to keep there player play more then just few week and honest if that i think we get in next DLC shadows of the Hist if we only get 2 new dungeon and no other content i fear we will see people leave then game.

Problem here is that there is no where to look, as all of the others do the same thing. You are talking end game content, not overall content. ESO has more overall content for someone just starting out, than most of its peers. The one aspect that some other MMO's use that ESO has not adopted is the hardcore gear treadmill. When your gear is no longer BiS due to changes every few weeks, the drive to continue playing and grinding is present. Personally, I despise this method of extending the end game, but I'm also not sure what else could replace it. Unfortunately in non-sandbox MMO's, there will never really be any reason to play every day for hours, indefinitely. This is why I got into roleplaying.

Aeaeren

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lilacgooseberries wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lilacgooseberries wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I've abandoned the game pretty much, although I still voice my opinion on here hoping they'll see reason and give us some good challenging open world content. Hardcore is dead in this game unfortunately. I'd say even "mediumcore" is going away and all that will be left is hello kitty level of difficulty. I really hope the game burns down to the ground soon enough so that it can die a decent death.

You mean so causual gamers cant even play anymore?

You guys are pretty much saying "Ive done all I can everyday, all day. Ive maxed out everything...I beat the game. Let the game die because Im getting bored of it. I dont care about all the new players coming in, I only care about what I can do."

Not really, just that they murdered the game with the constant nerfing so that anyone running around without any armor or weapons can complete anything in open world. Compare that to when people had to actually ask for help with world bosses etc and it's just sad that a game that's supposed to be an MMO is a glorified singleplayer RPG. I miss the challenge that used to exist 2 years ago before the nerfing began, that was fun, you found new people that became friends and you did things together, now it's anti-socials online these days in ESO.

And thats the communities fault...for an MMO, many players don't want to play with strangers, and many "hardcore" gamers dont want to play with low level players because of a superiority complex...just a couple of days ago I was speaking in the middle of a bunch of champions and one of them started mocking me....because I was in a spot where I shouldnt have been for my level. Its the communities fault...not the games fault.

Had they kept the challenge in the game it wouldn't have devolved into that, but these days everyone and their mother can rolfstomp everything in the open world content since it's too easy. Doshia, Balreth etc used to be a decent challenge and people asked around for help with Balreth and the world bosses and I helped them out a lot with that. The last year or so I've yet to see more than 10 people ask for help with anything in the open world not counting dlc. Is that really the community's fault or the devs fault that nerfed the content so much? A community only thrives when they have to interact with each other but there's literally no reason to do so outside of group dungeons etc.

I remember Doshia the first time OH MY GOD, I basically just put that quest on hold for about 5 more levels then came back when I got a AOE. Can't kill her when she is next to the wall and you can't hit the back 2 balls! She was a royal pain but I did enjoy stomping her. Today's version, I can do it without any effort

Lysette

The thesis "a community only thrives when they have to interact with each other" - like @cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO put it, is not necessarily true with ESO or is true in a different sense than grouping up with other in combat. The TES fans are solo players, but a lot of them are role players as well and there is interaction of the community outside of combat as well.

There are a bunch of good role play guilds which have quite some interaction with each other, it does not all have to be about combat only. And a whole lot of people might not even want intensive interaction with others, because they came from single player experience and see ESO as a continuation of it online. And this makes the difference in ESO - a lot might not even want to interact with others at all. But this does not necessarily mean, the game could not thrive.

We here on the forum are a community inside the community as well and over time we get to know each other in regards to the game quite well and there might even friendships result from being on the forum, which live on outside of the forum and maybe even outside of ESO - I have meanwhile a few such contacts, which extend far beyond ESO, but orginated in this forum.

Interaction does not have to be all about combat - there are other ways to make a community thrive than to just add more challenging combat experiences. More and better role play elements might do the trick for example - and we will get some of those soon.

Ashtaris

A couple of comments from a "Hardcore" player. I've been in the game since it's release and have stuck with it so far. Being retired, I have quite a bit of time I can put into the game, and have done so. I've seen a lot of changes in the game over the course of the last couple of years, that's for sure. One thing I think has hurt the game is that ZOS went too far in decreasing the Vet difficulty level. I remember when the mobs in some zones would kick your butt and they were not a cakewalk. They were a bit too difficult, so ZOS got out the GIANT nerf hammer and nerfed the zones to oblivion and went too far in the other direction, making them way too easy. They always seem to have problems finding the middle ground. So now you have a bunch of CP501 players running around and can almost one-shot the mobs just by looking at them. No strategy or luck needed.

Also, another thing we haven't seen is any kind of progression in crafting. Most of my 6 alts I have leveled are pretty much maxed out on every crafting skill. One has all traits learned on every weapon and piece of armor. So I do my writs daily, but man that is so boring. I like crafting, but ZOS has kinda swept crafting under the rug. We have had no new crafts (Jewelry making, Spellcrafting, etc.) since the game's release. I'm kinda hoping we might see things like Carpentry, Masonry, and others when player housing is released, but nothing has been confirmed yet. And for the crafts we have now, there has not been any kind of progression system to improve those skills. How about being able to change traits, or upgrade set pieces beyond their normal drop level. (i.e. Changing a CP120 Healers Habit to CP160), anything that would allow us to progress in our normal crafting skills that are currently in the game for us oldtimers

Bringing in new players while keeping us veterans busy (and please, not the mindless grinding) is always going to be a challenge for ZOS.

Lysette

Ashtaris wrote: »

A couple of comments from a "Hardcore" player. I've been in the game since it's release and have stuck with it so far. Being retired, I have quite a bit of time I can put into the game, and have done so. I've seen a lot of changes in the game over the course of the last couple of years, that's for sure. One thing I think has hurt the game is that ZOS went too far in decreasing the Vet difficulty level. I remember when the mobs in some zones would kick your butt and they were not a cakewalk. They were a bit too difficult, so ZOS got out the GIANT nerf hammer and nerfed the zones to oblivion and went too far in the other direction, making them way too easy. They always seem to have problems finding the middle ground. So now you have a bunch of CP501 players running around and can almost one-shot the mobs just by looking at them. No strategy or luck needed.

Also, another thing we haven't seen is any kind of progression in crafting. Most of my 6 alts I have leveled are pretty much maxed out on every crafting skill. One has all traits learned on every weapon and piece of armor. So I do my writs daily, but man that is so boring. I like crafting, but ZOS has kinda swept crafting under the rug. We have had no new crafts (Jewelry making, Spellcrafting, etc.) since the game's release. I'm kinda hoping we might see things like Carpentry, Masonry, and others when player housing is released, but nothing has been confirmed yet. And for the crafts we have now, there has not been any kind of progression system to improve those skills. How about being able to change traits, or upgrade set pieces beyond their normal drop level. (i.e. Changing a CP120 Healers Habit to CP160), anything that would allow us to progress in our normal crafting skills that are currently in the game for us oldtimers

Bringing in new players while keeping us veterans busy (and please, not the mindless grinding) is always going to be a challenge for ZOS.

Yeah, the problem with it is, that ESO is a theme-park and is missing sandbox-elements by that - even crafting is just inside very strict limits - for example there is no personal skill involved - every blacksmith will produce the exact same quality of the item. Or provisioning - that is done in 40 minutes to get this to level 50 - but for most of the stuff I make, it does not make a difference if I would be level 25 or 50 - there is no improvement for the lower tier food/beverages with higher skill at all. Unlike in reality, where a star chef creates a piece of art with just a simple omelette - I am missing that for example.

As far as housing goes, we do not know much yet, but I actually do not expect new crafts with it, but prefab houses, maybe even instanced buildings, which are static in the game and where we cannot even choose the design but just the location out of a list of pre-made locations - that is what I expect that it will be - and hopefully with functional furniture - because if they fail to deliver on that, they can just keep their houses - I do not want any of them, if there would be no useable furniture available.

Anamander

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Hoping the game burns down.? So because YOU don't like it, no one is allowed to enjoy it.? Well feel free to quit, your mentality will not be missed

I used to love and defend the good game we used to have, not the piece of trash we got these days. Really, the good game is dead and now we got something that's best to be burned with fire.

bit harsh.

Lysette

There is no consistent experience with the game - for some players it is really a mess (especially on XBox1 as it seems), for others, like me, the game runs very smoothly and since they have fixed the 64-bit client, I am pretty happy with the game. I even have extended my subscription today to a total of 388 days - so that I do not have to think about it for more than a year. I would not have done this, if the game would not be that enjoyable for me as it currently is and I will be even more happy with the next DLC release and One Tamriel and the new ESO+ perk coming with it.

But when the 64-bit client came out, I had for quite some time a really bad experience and it was not enjoyable to play - but ZOS has fixed the issues - at least for me they are gone - and now it is a really good experience, I can concentrate on playing instead to have to deal with workarounds. I am really sad for those players, who still have to struggle with issues, because I know what a pain that must be for them. ZOS is working on the Xbox1 issues though and I think they will fix it, it just takes a bit more time and patience, due to the approval process of Microsoft all takes longer than required basically. ZOS fixed so far pretty much all of my technical issues and I have faith that they will be able to iron out the Xbox1 issues as well. Not the overall lag in Cyrrodil though, I have no hope for that, because I think, they miss insight into the actual issue and try to fix symptomes instead to get to the core of the problem, which is IMO in game mechanics and a design issue.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Anamander wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Hoping the game burns down.? So because YOU don't like it, no one is allowed to enjoy it.? Well feel free to quit, your mentality will not be missed

I used to love and defend the good game we used to have, not the piece of trash we got these days. Really, the good game is dead and now we got something that's best to be burned with fire.

bit harsh.

Not really.

Ffastyl

Specifically what can be done to increase difficulty is to increase the Health on enemies. Their damage and AI are good, but none last long enough to pose even a small threat. At Level 13, fighting Level 12 enemies with a Level 11 green weapon, I am 3 shotting enemies. Once a player has an understanding of the game's fundamental mechanics, the enemy has simply too little Health to last more than a couple seconds. Learning how to fight a sustained battle is where the tactical depth of ESO's combat lies. That depth is not accessible without enemies that can strain a player's resources.

Lysette

Ffastyl wrote: »

Specifically what can be done to increase difficulty is to increase the Health on enemies. Their damage and AI are good, but none last long enough to pose even a small threat. At Level 13, fighting Level 12 enemies with a Level 11 green weapon, I am 3 shotting enemies. Once a player has an understanding of the game's fundamental mechanics, the enemy has simply too little Health to last more than a couple seconds. Learning how to fight a sustained battle is where the tactical depth of ESO's combat lies. That depth is not accessible without enemies that can strain a player's resources.

yeah, normally I go for enemies which are around 5 levels higher than me - otherwise i would 1-shot them with my bow+poison injection. In battle-leveled zones it feels about right to me, I need like 3-5 shots, to get a regular outdoor enemy down. One of the reasons I am eager to get One Tamriel - finally I can go hunting as much as my heart desires, without to out-level quest by doing so. And with this scaling in place pretty much everywhere, I doubt that they will individually adjust any of the enemies.

I just wonder why you need 3 shots for an enemy, which is lower in level than you are - do you go for heavy attack with the bow and hold the mouse button and launch the shot by pressing the key for a bow-ability?- Do you use at least blue food, to support your max stamina? Do you attempt your shot from the maximal distance - and do you have the first 2 passives of bow abilities? Are you wearing medium armor for high critical chance?

Maybe my understanding of fighting with a bow is different from yours - I expect the bow to be highly effective - like it is in real life as well - you take down with one good bow shot. When I was hunting in real life with a bow, it takes one shot, the game will attempt to run, struggle and go down, because it does not have the ability to breath to support it's muscles any longer - it is a 1-shot take down with a proper hit - given game of the appropriate size for a bow of course.

Lysette

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Ffastyl wrote: »

Specifically what can be done to increase difficulty is to increase the Health on enemies. Their damage and AI are good, but none last long enough to pose even a small threat. At Level 13, fighting Level 12 enemies with a Level 11 green weapon, I am 3 shotting enemies. Once a player has an understanding of the game's fundamental mechanics, the enemy has simply too little Health to last more than a couple seconds. Learning how to fight a sustained battle is where the tactical depth of ESO's combat lies. That depth is not accessible without enemies that can strain a player's resources.

Well, blame AoE effects for that - when you fight a bunch of enemies and you have AoE effects available, it is like fighting just one instead of all at the same time (at least as far as the AoE goes). If you would have to fight them in a normal way, things would be different - ESO has by far too many AoE abilities for good.

KingYogi415

Runs great ps4.
minus the load screens.