Rename Flame Lash to Lukewarm Noodleslap

Belicourt

The only reason mag dk is in this mess is because most other classes didn't even work as intended when the first dropped and so mag dk got nerfed by the removal of dynamic ulti.

Then the other classes were fixed and given the ability to kill things like the old magdk but the old mag dk was nerfed to death.

Now that every other class is where mag dk used to be, bring back dynamic ulit, forget the flame lash buff!

Actually_Goku

Armitas wrote: »

Was loling at some of these comments then realized this was the general forums. You have to put pvp stuff on the PvP section...otherwise you get this.

I think I saw tumbleweed in that particular crevice of the forums... There's always going to be a few jokes, mixed in with a few serious and insightful comments on any thread worth talking about

Burning_Talons

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Your complaining about a skill that, does good damage, heals you and doesn't really cost that much!!!

Good damage, my 3.2k lashes in pvp say otherwise.

I hit a guy for 8.9k Suprise attack today. After my 4.5k medium weave.

But hey 3.2k lashes

Take the heavy armour off

Actually_Goku

#inb4FOTM #watchmeWHIP

Alucardo

Actually_Goku wrote: »

#inb4FOTM #watchmeWHIP

Yeah, it will be FOTM for a couple of weeks, before all the re-rolls actually see how hard it is to play a magicka DK and go back to their nightblades.

bellanca6561n

Lose the noodle....

https://youtu.be/i9SSOWORzw4

Solariken

Guys this is an MMO, we will all have more fun and do more damage if we stand in a circle and slap our noodles at the same time.

Waffennacht

I see what you did there OP, I done seen'd it.

Alucardo

I've got a craving for ramen all of a sudden

Kutsuu

You want it to hit hard, you build for it to hit hard. Something like burning spellweave x5 + sun x5 on a DW bar is going to fry people - I've been hit by 10k flame lash crits on my vamps by such a build. That's still a 7-8k hit against a non vamp.

Actually_Goku

Alucardo wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

#inb4FOTM #watchmeWHIP

Yeah, it will be FOTM for a couple of weeks, before all the re-rolls actually see how hard it is to play a magicka DK and go back to their nightblades.

Hope so

Waffennacht wrote: »

I see what you did there OP, I done seen'd it.

Solariken wrote: »

Guys this is an MMO, we will all have more fun and do more damage if we stand in a circle and slap our noodles at the same time.

This made me LOL

Toast_STS

This thread is making me hungry

raasdal

Flame Lash is the hardest hitting spammable skill in the entire game, when you take Power lash into account.

The PROBLEM is that mag dk has to invest everything into defence.

Sanct16

The problem with dk is that you have to build super defensive to make up for the lack of selfhealing that isnt situational.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Only issue with mDK these days is speed. Solve that and mDKs are fine. Will I ever bring down a reactive Templar? Nope. But they won't take me down either. I'd say that's fair.

Does whip need to be buffed? I'm not so sure. It's plenty easy to kill people by layering damage (talons, deep breath explosion, embers, whip, monster set proc).

Would be nice for a slight cost reduction across the board on DK skills.

Xvorg

Actually_Goku wrote: »

I'm hoping to open up a discussion as to why Lash is so lacklustre, to the point, whereby I'm having more success spamming Force Shock than using Lukewarm Noodleslap?

Did you put 75 points into Thaum?

Xvorg

leepalmer95 wrote: »

whip needs major fracture, it won't effect pve dps this way either.

Major breach... I suppose

Minalan

Actually_Goku wrote: »

I'm hoping to open up a discussion as to why Lash is so lacklustre, to the point, whereby I'm having more success spamming Force Shock than using Lukewarm Noodleslap?

Force pulse/crushing shock do even less, like 3x900 damage per hit.

Spammable abilities without any cool down, wind-up, or cast time probably shouldn't be doing more than that.

Edit: I'm totally on board for an armor debuff for it, that would make sense. A reason to keep casting it, to keep up a short 2-3 second armor debuff.

Actually_Goku

Minalan wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

I'm hoping to open up a discussion as to why Lash is so lacklustre, to the point, whereby I'm having more success spamming Force Shock than using Lukewarm Noodleslap?

Force pulse/crushing shock do even less, like 3x900 damage per hit.

Spammable abilities without any cool down, wind-up, or cast time probably shouldn't be doing more than that.

Edit: I'm totally on board for an armor debuff for it, that would make sense. A reason to keep casting it, to keep up a short 2-3 second armor debuff.

I'm thinking the buffs Mag DK is supposedly getting will have something like this integrated into whip. This is basically the Mag DK's version of a NB's SA/CW, but without IMO the utility of the other two, namely that power lash needs to proc.

In regards to your earlier post, Force Pulse has range, Lash doesn't.

I'm thinking Major Breach on whip, an escape skill of some sort, like an expedition buff on Spiked Armor, and one of either Molten Weapons becoming an execute again, OR Ash Cloud becoming a skill worth using similar to a Templar's ritual, with either a self-buff or a debuff, as well as the Dragon's Blood buff being mentioned in the works, and Mag DK will be on it's way to PVP parity.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Minor expedition on wings for 4 seconds. They are wings after all...let me fly with them!

BlackMadara

With 3500 SD and 40000 magicka:
Flame lash tooltip: 7324
Power lash: 9164
Concealed Weapon: 8417

As far as spammable, single target, melee, attacks go, CW has the highest scaling. Anything with a cast time does more. Ranged attacks do less. Power lash proc every 5 seconds does more.

Overall dps with dots, DKs are higher than NB of course and NB get passives that suit offensive combat more.

Overall, whip doesn't need a damage buff. If whip hit as hard as CW, when DK and NB are wearing the same gear, DKs would be literally OP and broken.

What is needed is a buff to mDK self survival and utility so it can build for more damage. Much of the offense and defense of other magicka classes involves only magicka SD. Templars heal more, nightblade heal more and cloak more (and kill faster, death is the best cc), and sorcerers get bigger shields and can streak more.

The mDK either has to invest in all attributes, health for heals, stamina for block, and magicka for damage, or play as a less mobile, higher sustained dps, melee, sorcerer

I suggest a change to DB so that it isn't hurt by battle spirit as much but still scales with health somehow, make dots more viable by either giving them defile or an execute mechanic when target is low, give evasion in ash cloud, and maybe make it so wings removes snares and roots (we fly baby). There are definitely things I'm missing that DK needs, and of course other abilities need to be tuned if these types of buffs come through.

BuggeX

the noodles

i ate Spaghetti today

Armitas

Spaghetti is Italian for Ramen noodles and sauce.

mtwiggz

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Lash just gets hit by too much mitigation through cp, gear, battle spirit. I understand each class has its trade offs but lash needs to do more dmg to players.

This is the main issue. The mitigation to spells at this point is awful. To get the trade off you have to wear at least 5x Light Armor, which ruins just about any chance of survivability, let alone in an out numbered situation. The only magicka class that can survive decently well in 5x light are Sorcs, which is solely due to the use of shields. If Sorcs didn't have shields their damage would be as lackluster as Lukewarm Noodleslap as they'd be forced into heavy armor like the rest of the magicka based builds.

Lokey0024

mtwiggz wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Lash just gets hit by too much mitigation through cp, gear, battle spirit. I understand each class has its trade offs but lash needs to do more dmg to players.

This is the main issue. The mitigation to spells at this point is awful. To get the trade off you have to wear at least 5x Light Armor, which ruins just about any chance of survivability, let alone in an out numbered situation. The only magicka class that can survive decently well in 5x light are Sorcs, which is solely due to the use of shields. If Sorcs didn't have shields their damage would be as lackluster as Lukewarm Noodleslap as they'd be forced into heavy armor like the rest of the magicka based builds.

It's the streak a sorc has that gets them out of trouble. The shields help, but if they just sat there in mines spamming shields, it's a losing battle and will oom fast. Streak out, they follow thru mines and take dmg, hit shields, mine.

Lukewarm noodleslap is decent, more for utility, the Off balance gets me 10% dmg, the heal is good, not reliable tho. I think with a self heal so i can use a destro staff/SnB or DW things will get back in line.

Bandit1215

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Dat 3.2k flame lash tho!

But seriously, flame lash needs either a decent buff or to become an execute skill. I've had so many fights recently in PVP that I just can't close out despite being the better player for 80% of the fight, because Mag DK just has no execute.

So either do as title says, or perhaps something along the lines of an extra damage execute on target under 25%, like how every other mana class has.

Plz and thx.

I say increase it's damage by like 50% because even in full light it with a typical sorc setup it hits like a wet noodle and costs a lot more (I think).

mtwiggz

Lokey0024 wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Lash just gets hit by too much mitigation through cp, gear, battle spirit. I understand each class has its trade offs but lash needs to do more dmg to players.

This is the main issue. The mitigation to spells at this point is awful. To get the trade off you have to wear at least 5x Light Armor, which ruins just about any chance of survivability, let alone in an out numbered situation. The only magicka class that can survive decently well in 5x light are Sorcs, which is solely due to the use of shields. If Sorcs didn't have shields their damage would be as lackluster as Lukewarm Noodleslap as they'd be forced into heavy armor like the rest of the magicka based builds.

It's the streak a sorc has that gets them out of trouble. The shields help, but if they just sat there in mines spamming shields, it's a losing battle and will oom fast. Streak out, they follow thru mines and take dmg, hit shields, mine.

Lukewarm noodleslap is decent, more for utility, the Off balance gets me 10% dmg, the heal is good, not reliable tho. I think with a self heal so i can use a destro staff/SnB or DW things will get back in line.

Streak helps, but streaking more than once in succession is far too costly. One streak does not get you out of trouble. Not to mention any half decent player isn't going to b-line through your mines if you streak away anyways. Shields are the bread and butter that puts Sorc at the top of the damage and survivability totem in PvP. No other class can compare when it comes to both feats.

Actually_Goku

Did I win title of the year in the end?