died a little inside...

jcaceresw

I dont PVP much, but it would break my heart deeply to see any of my guildies doing the same.

Clerics1985

Etchos wrote: »

oh I'm torn. What's being described absolutely sucks but........

I love that gap closers are now letting people jump the keep walls. A couple of nights ago I was defending a keep and instead of just running the wall spamming my bow I was fighting the odd wall scaler. Epic battle. Epic fun. One of the best PVP experiences I have had in the 8 months I've been playing the game. I don't care if ZOS say this is an exploit its so much. And before anyone starts throwing mud i'll just repeat I was in the keep defending......not scaling the wall myself.

The downside seems to be that PVP guilds can create characters in the opposition alliance to be used as an exploit to get large amounts of people over the wall away from any siege. undetectable. That's bad.

Plus from reports some people have managed to get in and take scrolls without attacking the keep. Although I have mixed feelings about that.

In short I think there is an interesting mechanic here potentially but it needs to be thought out more. And directly to ZOS .....make a decision!!! Its either an exploit in which case get it sorted so its no longer possible. Or its not, in which case set some ground rules and programme so that cheaters cant cross aliances and let their mates in.

bro they wouldn't be able to stop the latter part of your post. if they decide it's not an exploit they can add ground rules sure, but they Cannot stop people helping other factions out cross-alliance. all they need is TS and a character on both alliances and voila. there is legit no *** way to patch that

dodgehopper_ESO

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

I wish we could put out bounties on people who do this. I don't mind people playing on more than one faction so long as when they are in the fight they ACTUALLY FIGHT. It kills the spirit of things, when you have an obvious spy in front of you and you can't do anything about it. That guy's corpse should have been dangling outside the keep.

dodgehopper_ESO

Etchos wrote: »

oh I'm torn. What's being described absolutely sucks but........

I love that gap closers are now letting people jump the keep walls. A couple of nights ago I was defending a keep and instead of just running the wall spamming my bow I was fighting the odd wall scaler. Epic battle. Epic fun. One of the best PVP experiences I have had in the 8 months I've been playing the game. I don't care if ZOS say this is an exploit its so much. And before anyone starts throwing mud i'll just repeat I was in the keep defending......not scaling the wall myself.

The downside seems to be that PVP guilds can create characters in the opposition alliance to be used as an exploit to get large amounts of people over the wall away from any siege. undetectable. That's bad.

Plus from reports some people have managed to get in and take scrolls without attacking the keep. Although I have mixed feelings about that.

In short I think there is an interesting mechanic here potentially but it needs to be thought out more. And directly to ZOS .....make a decision!!! Its either an exploit in which case get it sorted so its no longer possible. Or its not, in which case set some ground rules and programme so that cheaters cant cross aliances and let their mates in.

This is all well and good, if you can kill the Benedict Arnold pulling this crap.

Reverb

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I am not fighting in Cyro until this junk is fixed. I'm on boycott.

This pleases Zeni. The fewer people participating in the alliance wars, the fewer reasons they have to pretend to be interested in fixing the state of Cyrodiil. If they can kill interest in ESO pvp completely, they can eliminate the AvA component and add Cyro and IC to their pve sandbox MMORPG vision.

For the record, I do believe that Brian Wheeler truly does care about ESO pvp, and wants it to be well reputed in the gaming industry. But I don't think that his team and the combat team are on the same page. At all. And I don't think that Brian's team has the support of the corporate heads.

I think this game would be easier to support, and be able to claim higher customer satisfaction scores, if all of us PvP fans departed for another game, and I think that's their goal. I hope to see Brian on the battlefields of CU.

Elsonso

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

I wish we could put out bounties on people who do this. I don't mind people playing on more than one faction so long as when they are in the fight they ACTUALLY FIGHT. It kills the spirit of things, when you have an obvious spy in front of you and you can't do anything about it. That guy's corpse should have been dangling outside the keep.

The inherent problem with Spies in Cyrodiil is that you can do little more than tolerate them. You can be standing right next to them, and it does not matter. They are untouchable. There is no downside, no risk, for spying in this game.

moiraleafcull

Yes...spies are a matter of course.
This is an entirely different thing altogether.
This is a member of one alliance blatantly and purposefully assisting members of another alliance to exploit a bug.
ZOS has made it clear this is considered an exploit, should be reported, and is grounds for banning.

Elsonso

.

Kattemynte

I would love to see some sort of faction based prison or punishment (not going to happen as it would easily be abused for wrong reasons). If you happened to see a spy like that, report him to your general and if enough people report him the next time he is seen by your factions guards he would be arrested/killed.

It would add a layer to the AvAvA in which spies are actually a thing. Maybe you can kill an opposing player 1v1 in the wilderness and grab his "costume" to look like the other alliance. Your alliance would however see you as an enemy and could attack but at the same time you would be able to enter an opposing keep (using the same rules with PvE costumes where certain NPCs can tell the difference) and be able to relay if that keep has a lot of players or very little in it.

idk

There have many threads on this and I've seen no repsponse from the appropriate people. That doesn't mean they are not trying to figure out how they broke it but it does mean it's a low priority to inform us that they're looking into this, hence, probably a low priority to fix. After all it's just PvP.

Grao

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I recorded it. Any point sending it in?

Yes. If you have footage that you believe demonstrates a violation of the Terms of Service you should send it in. http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/

It's helpful to explain the problem in your ticket, and name the people involved. For a lengthy video, it may be worth including a time stamp so it's easier for us to track down the issue. All of these help expedite any investigation.

Will Zenimax do anything about it? Will Zenimax do anything about the fact we don't think they care about this exploit being used?

I mean, you knowingly implemented this bug into the live servers despite several reports concerning this and how it would heavily affect PvP while DB was on the PTS.

Grao

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

Congratulations, you just saw your first spy!

I agree with this... But the problem is, he caught the spy and he can't kill him. It would be cool if ZOS implemented a tool that allowed us to kill 'spies', but make so it kill their character permanently. XD

I bet they'd stop doing this sort of crap if they could easily lose their character for it...

jbcrocks

You dont need a spy to go up keeps. Just try ro find an enemy peeking on you. I believe it's working as intended to give players some fun for 2 years of pvp.

Toc de Malsvi

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Take any action or upload, post, transmit, promote, or distribute any illegal Content, including, but not limited to, any UGC or any Game Mods;

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Take any action or upload, post, transmit, distribute, or communicate Your or any person's real-world personal information;

Impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, ZeniMax, ZeniMax's partners' or affiliates' employees, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent Your affiliation with a person or entity;

Take any action, organize, transmit any Content, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, or guild that is harmful, tortuous, abusive, hateful (including "hate speech"), racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, libelous, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or is, in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or deemed to be in the sole discretion of ZeniMax inappropriate;

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

Take any action or upload, post, transmit, promote, or distribute any Content or software code that may contain a Trojan horse, virus, worm, spyware, time bombs, cancelbots, corrupted data, malware, malicious code, or other computer programs that may damage, interfere with, intercept, expropriate or disrupt the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), personal information, or confidential or proprietary information;

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Playing as one alliance while actively helping another alliance in PVP combat could constitute: Impersonating any person or entity.

Using exploits to take keeps clearly constitutes: taking advantage of exploits or cheats

Could be argued that such behavior is disruptive to PVP gameplay: Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services.

Send the video in.

On another note it would be nice if there was a function in game for reporting players who engage in such tactics, such that if a player receives "x" number of reports a moderator could look into and ban those players from PVP content for a short period of time say a week or so.

Giraffon

Since they can't seem to figure out a way to stop the exploits of breaking into an unguarded keep, perhaps it's time for a new flavor of campaign? How about this:

Hist Wars: Alliance keeps, resources, and scrolls can not be taken at all. Alliance rank is based on player kills only with less weight given as a player is killed more and more. Battlefields are scattered around the land and have permanent forward camps for all alliances near each battlefield. The forward camps are kill zones to non-alliance players.

The idea is that you basically have these areas that any player knows they can go to and find other players to fight. Isn't that what most of us like to do anyway?

dodgehopper_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

I wish we could put out bounties on people who do this. I don't mind people playing on more than one faction so long as when they are in the fight they ACTUALLY FIGHT. It kills the spirit of things, when you have an obvious spy in front of you and you can't do anything about it. That guy's corpse should have been dangling outside the keep.

The inherent problem with Spies in Cyrodiil is that you can do little more than tolerate them. You can be standing right next to them, and it does not matter. They are untouchable. There is no downside, no risk, for spying in this game.

Exactly. I could live with spying as a matter of course, but I just wish we had the capacity to make people pay for such behaviors. To be fair this could lead to another form of abuse which would be a form of stupid in fighting between clans or people who had a falling out with one another. This type of issue though is pretty normal for a game that would allow this sort of spying behavior to begin with.

dodgehopper_ESO

Grao wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

Congratulations, you just saw your first spy!

I agree with this... But the problem is, he caught the spy and he can't kill him. It would be cool if ZOS implemented a tool that allowed us to kill 'spies', but make so it kill their character permanently. XD

I bet they'd stop doing this sort of crap if they could easily lose their character for it...

That would be a bit harsh, and I could envision a situation where some poor new player accidentally 'assists' a few people to enter a keep when he thinks he's fighting the good fight. I highly doubt anything like this would ever happen.

amgame308_ESO

The genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting it back. Emperor flipping has died down, but you can have entire guilds switching factions to wipe less skilled players for AP. Then just switch again.

They need to lock your faction each campaign once you select one. This constant fair weather campaign swapping is annoying.

Clerics1985

used to play a game called bounty bay online which was a legit sandbox game I think it become "POTBS" later on down the road or some such shiet. they had a Prison system that added up and eventually would land you in jail for real-time hours/days dependant on your crimes, there where ways to "escape"

Animal_Mother

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Then get down from the walls and fight. Sick of peopl

Giraffon wrote: »

Since they can't seem to figure out a way to stop the exploits of breaking into an unguarded keep, perhaps it's time for a new flavor of campaign? How about this:

Hist Wars: Alliance keeps, resources, and scrolls can not be taken at all. Alliance rank is based on player kills only with less weight given as a player is killed more and more. Battlefields are scattered around the land and have permanent forward camps for all alliances near each battlefield. The forward camps are kill zones to non-alliance players.

The idea is that you basically have these areas that any player knows they can go to and find other players to fight. Isn't that what most of us like to do anyway?

I want to see a campaign were there is no repair. It would have to be a week long one. I just want to see empty shells of castles, keeps and walls.


Edit: now the forums are breaking? what with the quotes that don't appear when I edit?

Animal_Mother

Giraffon wrote: »

Since they can't seem to figure out a way to stop the exploits of breaking into an unguarded keep, perhaps it's time for a new flavor of campaign? How about this:

Hist Wars: Alliance keeps, resources, and scrolls can not be taken at all. Alliance rank is based on player kills only with less weight given as a player is killed more and more. Battlefields are scattered around the land and have permanent forward camps for all alliances near each battlefield. The forward camps are kill zones to non-alliance players.

The idea is that you basically have these areas that any player knows they can go to and find other players to fight. Isn't that what most of us like to do anyway?

I want to see a campaign were there is no repair. It would have to be a week long one. I just want to see empty shells of castles, keeps and walls.

edit:fixed stuff

Dral_Shady

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I recorded it. Any point sending it in?

Yes. If you have footage that you believe demonstrates a violation of the Terms of Service you should send it in. http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/

It's helpful to explain the problem in your ticket, and name the people involved. For a lengthy video, it may be worth including a time stamp so it's easier for us to track down the issue. All of these help expedite any investigation.

Dear Zenimax.
Thing is atm your consumer confidence is at a all time low. People have been recording and sending in tickets about these types of exploits for years now, yet we see the same players doing it over and over again. Why should we bother anymore when you clearly have no interest in disciplining the offenders? And this is only the exploits. The whole hacking CE story is another and far worse story.

Grao

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

AriokoSan wrote: »

I'm out here everyday busting my buns in cyrodiil just like everyone else. But what I saw last night broke a brothers heart...

I spawn in on a castle and decide to go out to the front to see what's going on. And what do I see..

My teammate helping 6 nightblades into the inner part of the keep. He just stands there spamming vigor as they take turns ambushing on him. 1 by 1 taking there time so they don't accidently kill him.

I put my bow away and just stand there looking at my "teammate" thinking why man? He waves at me and runs inside with the other chumps that he just let it.

Since the new campaign started my alliance have been getting a wooping but I still try to help push forward even though every time I log in we only have 2-3 keeps.

Last night was a sad day for me comrades...

Congratulations, you just saw your first spy!

I agree with this... But the problem is, he caught the spy and he can't kill him. It would be cool if ZOS implemented a tool that allowed us to kill 'spies', but make so it kill their character permanently. XD

I bet they'd stop doing this sort of crap if they could easily lose their character for it...

That would be a bit harsh, and I could envision a situation where some poor new player accidentally 'assists' a few people to enter a keep when he thinks he's fighting the good fight. I highly doubt anything like this would ever happen.

I am sorry, but I can see someone accidentally assisting one person, maybe two, not a few... That is not an accident. It is a spy.

Nikkor

even though zenimax has commented on this thread they have clearly stated before many times that they are ok with this type of behavior. its gone on a long time. I'm not happy about it but its the truth.

Dramonicous

In Planetside 2 this is called stats padding, and its bannable.
Temp ban on first few offenses, depending on severity.
In ESO however....
Meeh we are far too busy not dealing with cheaters and exploiters to bother with this.

CyrusArya

The bonds of friendship transcend the petty politics of men and elves. Honestly, espionage and covert exploitation have been a thing in wars since caveman days probably. If anything, it bolsters muh immersion.

And look, I'm totally against external hacks and cheating but make no mistake- all the keep jumping is nothing more than people having a giggle at zenimax incompetency. If you're gonna report anyone, report zenimax for letting things like this go live.

Cryptical

1 day suspension won't do anything.

There's an element of cavalier disregard present that will just shrug off a day or 3 days of being locked out. 1 week is just beginning to make an impression.

You want 2 weeks, or more, or better yet come up with some form of punishment that lands pain on their guild. This IS a social game.

First and foremost, there's a societal impact to having justice be done in public, not behind closed doors. Justice done in secret is not at all able to be used as a deterrent to others - so 'no name and shame' is actually preventing Zos's attempts from being fully effective.

itscompton

Zos definitely needs to lock campaigns a single faction per account. This exploit is being used widely on PS4 NA in scourge. I was playing a couple of nights ago and two people who are always near the top of the leader board for AD (because they spend most of their time sneaking up on groups to use proxy/soul tether/vicious death) were blatantly running around on EP characters letting their yellow friends jump up to them at the top of keep walls.
I'm glad I can take either my Templar or NB into scourge depending what I feel like playing but they're both EP so I'm on the same team no matter which I use but I don't think there is any good reason to let someone switch between characters of a different alliance in the same campaign.

CherryCake

The best part is that he even waves at you xDDDDDDDDDD

Were those guys EP?

MasterSpatula

Once again, we see the "no naming and shaming" policy bite us in the butt. A healthy community would deal with people who do this by making it well known that they do this and are not to be trusted.