DEATH THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE

Lysette

As the only stake holders of the TES franchise for the next few years, ZOS and ESO are going nowhere - who wants new TES content has to get it in ESO - there are millions of fans out there, so there is absolutely no worries about the viability of ESO at all. Bethesda will not release an Elder Scrolls VI anytime soon - so just calm down, ESO will be just fine for years to come.

WeerW3ir

just for sure..


And um. Dont Worry. ... maybe they will give smaller dlc-s but the stories are getting better and better.. DB had a great story, TG has a meh story. Wrothgar is still the best.

Lysette

Smaller DLC can as well mean, that they have to stretch out the planned content, because it will take longer until a TES VI will be released - it does not just have to be due to player behavior.

Volkodav

daemonios wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Go ask Carbine Studios how concentrating their game for the hardcore audience worked out in the end.

I'll wait.

Nobody's asking them to focus on a part of the player base exclusively. But on a different note:

- Who do you think runs content with pugs and gives them a few insights on how to play effectively? I can assure you it's not casuals.
- Who do you think theorycrafts and makes guides available for others so they can progress to the harder content? Not casuals.
- Who do you think develops the add-ons used by much of the PC/Mac community, some of which were considered so necessary that they've been added to the game (e.g. floating combat text)?
- Who do you think streams ESO and shows others who may or may not be playing ESO what is possible in the game?
- Who do you think makes guilds and puts up with ZOS' terrible tools for managing guilds and guild stores so that players can find almost anything that ZOS still hasn't made Bound on Pickup?

Many of the people labeled "casuals" by some people's version of that word DO run content with pugs,and give them bits of insight on how to play.
I can assure you they DO.
I run pugs whenever I can and enjoy watching them learn to maneuver.And I have been labeled as casual even though I play long and hard every day.

Those people labeled as "casuals" by some people's version of that word DO theorycraft,and make guilds for other players to progress to harder content.
Many so called "casuals" have guilds that thrive and have runs together.
People are people in this game.Not labels,and many of them play many hours,are attentive to their guilds,and to other players,helping them when they can.

(adding my "Safety Smiley" now) )

daemonios

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Allow me to add a further note:

1) some people would rather fail a dungeon with friendly players than beat it with arrogant elitists. Strangely enough, it's rarely a joyous occasion to team up with others who hold those 'beneath' them with contempt. Some people do spread some insights in a friendly manner for sure, but there are plenty around who are just as likely to rant and rage quit.

Agreed. I try not to be rude, though I can't say I've never ranted when in a particularly bad group. Typically when group members don't respond in group chat and do stupid stuff after being told or shown what they could be doing instead. In a way though, this is a design issue. It used to be the case that when you reached VR zones you'd hit a wall until you learned to play the game. I remember struggling to kill 3-man trash groups. Nowadays players aren't challenged for anything except things that involve groups, and things can get heated because it involves more than one person, their game and their time.

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

2) Theory crafting and guides can be a great help, but they can also lead to insanely powerful builds that make all content in the game weak and unchallenging, leading to more and more power creep, wider and wider power differential, and endless fotm builds and yells for nerfs. I would guess that as many demands for nerfs come from non-casuals as casuals in these forums.

Here I'm going to go 100% with design issue. There are ways to prevent power creep. The initial soft-cap system was one. There was only so much you could put into a single stat before you stopped reaping any benefits. ZOS chose to do away with it, and along came the low-health max-resource builds. You cannot blame theory crafters for pushing the limits of what is allowed in the game. Rather, blame the devs who allow certain builds to so overwhelmingly outperform others.

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

3) Add-on. Great. Except they lead to devs not having to address many qol issues that should have been addressed, and to battle information that imo should have remained hidden.

This was precisely my position until some 3 months into the game (I started at launch). By then I'd leveled some crafting skills and had a couple of characters. My inventory was next to unmanageable, so I caved in and installed AdvancedFilters. Crafting researches were impossible to keep track of without visiting 3 crafting stations every time I logged in, so I installed CraftResearchTimer. And so on, and so forth. The truth is, ZOS outsourced much of their UI to add-on developers. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's the reality.

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I'll admit something upfront; I'm not the greatest player out there. Certainly not the worst, but probably bad enough to earn scorn from many people who post in these forums, in a word: Average.

I've never asked for any content to be made easier, but neither have I squeezed every last possible drop of power available and then moan that content is to easy. I, and my friends, make builds that Center around concepts, and then figure out how we can make those the best we can. We have fun. Dungeon difficulty doesn't put us off trying, but you wanna know what puts us off filling our last spot if we're one short? Not someone who is still growing as a player, but someone who has nothing but contempt for those not up to their ideal.

When Cyrodill is empty, when the servers shut down to lack of support, it won't be because the top 10% leave, it will be because us filthy casuals are finally sickened of the disdain shown towards us.

I'm sorry if I was arrogant towards casuals, that wasn't at all my intention (and I don't even know what casuals are exactly, I was referring to the players who log in to do some new DLC and then stay away for months until the next one is out, as Matt Firor claimed. Yes, they may be the majority of the player base. But I honestly believe that without more engaged players to push them, they'll be more likely to get bored and leave.

mike_de

Volkodav wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Go ask Carbine Studios how concentrating their game for the hardcore audience worked out in the end.

I'll wait.

Nobody's asking them to focus on a part of the player base exclusively. But on a different note:

- Who do you think runs content with pugs and gives them a few insights on how to play effectively? I can assure you it's not casuals.
- Who do you think theorycrafts and makes guides available for others so they can progress to the harder content? Not casuals.
- Who do you think develops the add-ons used by much of the PC/Mac community, some of which were considered so necessary that they've been added to the game (e.g. floating combat text)?
- Who do you think streams ESO and shows others who may or may not be playing ESO what is possible in the game?
- Who do you think makes guilds and puts up with ZOS' terrible tools for managing guilds and guild stores so that players can find almost anything that ZOS still hasn't made Bound on Pickup?

If you develop ESO for the players who only come back for the few weeks after a new "episode" is published, you will lose your long-term, subscribed players. And I'm pretty damn sure others will follow.

yodased wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

So ESO finally turned into a full-fledged, episodic, freemium mobile game. Just on a computer/console. Bravo, ZOS. You had me fooled when you stated initially that the subscription model was the only one you were considering, and that you were sticking with it.

To be completely fair the guy who said that doesn't work there any more

True. But if you remember those days before the announcement of ESO 2.0, ZOS let the rumours fester for months and didn't confirm them until the very last minute. His word was ZOS' word, they backtracked on it and hid it until they couldn't hide it anymore.

And who do you think cares? Not the casuals. Seriously, a significant majority of players don't come to these forums, look for builds online or watch twitch. The number of people who simply turn on the game every week or two for an hour or two dwarf the people that you're describing.

There are people who have played for a solid year that don't even understand how guild banks work because they don't care. They just think it's fun to kill a zombie on their totally awesome level 31 character with that sweet green armor.

And here is yet another description of "casuals".
I get confused by each different one.
I was called a casual becaause I dont PvP,or do endgame things.
But how can I be casual when I read this? I cant be.
I am one of those players who plays upward of 4-5 hours,..every day.
Also,why is wrong with being happy you killed a zombie at L31,wearing green armor.
To read this seems like an elitist talking.
BUT,I know you dont mean it that way.
It's just that too many people rank on those people who are fine with their blue or green gear.Those who arent interested in PvP,or trials,etc. They find fault and call them casuals,which is usually indicating an insult.Many of those called "casuals" are not people who have played MMOs very long,or if they did,they didnt play many.They are just people who love to play games,like everyone else,and they need time to get to where these upper echelon,nose in the air, fancy geared players are now.
Its sad that there are those who look down their noses at other players.No matter what their gear rating,or their levels.
(funny thing though,..those nose in the air players were once just like those they call "casuals",thinking they're cool in green gear.)

Don't bother. I call these MMO Power players "Munchkins".

If I am able to beat the game ... the story ... with simple green or blue gear, why should I ever bother to get better ones? I am in for quests and story. They can keep their PvP. So why do I need the better gear? To play dungeons in Veteran level.

But why should I do that? Is there a reason, why I shall play these dungeons again? Is there a quest series to solve? A story to follow? No?

Only to farm better gear to get into new veteran dungeons I have no reason to enter in the first place? Because reasons?

So I have no reason at all ever getting better armor than that. I am not a casual, playing games for a long, long time. I played all sorts of MMO. All sorts of games.All sorts of hardcore games. Do you know how big my backlog is? Why should I spend all my time with one game. There are so many games to play.

But my main reason to play anything is FUN and replayability. Trying something else with an other build.

I bought this game very cheap, but after playing for 2 days, i decided to pay a 3 months subscription. Because I liked it enough, to invest at least this amount of money.

But in the future, if they do as they plan to do things, I will buy subscriptions only sporadic, to fill my crafting bag, and get some crowns for the DLC that interests me. I don't buy The brotherhood. I play the questline only one time, even in the single player ES games. And I won't buy The Imperial city, because I am not interested in any form of PvP.

But I think danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO is right. With that tactic they WILL loose many subscribers, And if they screw up the "One Tamriel" update, the loss will be massive.

Does anybody remember the *** up of the enemy level scaling in Oblivion? If they are not able to do it properly, this will be the same here. No feel of progression at all, no feel things getting easier. That would be deadly for this game. I can guarantee at least that.

They should study Borderlands very closely. This is the way, you have to do it. Set the NPC level at the moment,. the player enter the zone for the first time. And then level up, without level scaling the enemies any further, only using the preset +n level upgrades on the enemies further in! This is essential, giving the player first the feel of a challenge, and after that, the feel of level growth. They did understand, what players really want. Challenge first, then fun and the feeling of getting stronger.

This can be done similar, if they add one level to the chars effective level, every time the levels up his real level based on his level he entered the new region. In this case, you have to remember the players real level at zone entry, not the NPC/monster level like in Borderlands.

If they don't do that, we get another Oblivion like level scaling disaster. Face it. Oblivion was only saved because the modding scene existed, deactivating or better restricting the max level scaling in enemy lists.

P.S. The worst example of level scaling I know of, is the game Wizardry VIII. In this game you have to fight even random encounters, as if it is your last fight. Because If you don't do that, it is your last.

Lysette

Well, ESO is not the only game out there - certainly even those who play every day do not want to spend this solely on one game - just nerds do that - but most try out and play other games as well and those take time as well.

Edit: me for example, I will play Nuka world in fallout 4 and continue to expand my settlements and I am still not done with far harbor as well. Then i want to buy the bundle when Dishonored 2 comes out, and play both games - I know the gameplay, but I never had the time to play those. And this can easily mean, that I will be away for a few weeks to focus on those and less on ESO - pretty normal thing to do.

Volkodav

mike_de wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Go ask Carbine Studios how concentrating their game for the hardcore audience worked out in the end.

I'll wait.

Nobody's asking them to focus on a part of the player base exclusively. But on a different note:

- Who do you think runs content with pugs and gives them a few insights on how to play effectively? I can assure you it's not casuals.
- Who do you think theorycrafts and makes guides available for others so they can progress to the harder content? Not casuals.
- Who do you think develops the add-ons used by much of the PC/Mac community, some of which were considered so necessary that they've been added to the game (e.g. floating combat text)?
- Who do you think streams ESO and shows others who may or may not be playing ESO what is possible in the game?
- Who do you think makes guilds and puts up with ZOS' terrible tools for managing guilds and guild stores so that players can find almost anything that ZOS still hasn't made Bound on Pickup?

If you develop ESO for the players who only come back for the few weeks after a new "episode" is published, you will lose your long-term, subscribed players. And I'm pretty damn sure others will follow.

yodased wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

So ESO finally turned into a full-fledged, episodic, freemium mobile game. Just on a computer/console. Bravo, ZOS. You had me fooled when you stated initially that the subscription model was the only one you were considering, and that you were sticking with it.

To be completely fair the guy who said that doesn't work there any more

True. But if you remember those days before the announcement of ESO 2.0, ZOS let the rumours fester for months and didn't confirm them until the very last minute. His word was ZOS' word, they backtracked on it and hid it until they couldn't hide it anymore.

And who do you think cares? Not the casuals. Seriously, a significant majority of players don't come to these forums, look for builds online or watch twitch. The number of people who simply turn on the game every week or two for an hour or two dwarf the people that you're describing.

There are people who have played for a solid year that don't even understand how guild banks work because they don't care. They just think it's fun to kill a zombie on their totally awesome level 31 character with that sweet green armor.

And here is yet another description of "casuals".
I get confused by each different one.
I was called a casual becaause I dont PvP,or do endgame things.
But how can I be casual when I read this? I cant be.
I am one of those players who plays upward of 4-5 hours,..every day.
Also,why is wrong with being happy you killed a zombie at L31,wearing green armor.
To read this seems like an elitist talking.
BUT,I know you dont mean it that way.
It's just that too many people rank on those people who are fine with their blue or green gear.Those who arent interested in PvP,or trials,etc. They find fault and call them casuals,which is usually indicating an insult.Many of those called "casuals" are not people who have played MMOs very long,or if they did,they didnt play many.They are just people who love to play games,like everyone else,and they need time to get to where these upper echelon,nose in the air, fancy geared players are now.
Its sad that there are those who look down their noses at other players.No matter what their gear rating,or their levels.
(funny thing though,..those nose in the air players were once just like those they call "casuals",thinking they're cool in green gear.)

Don't bother. I call these MMO Power players "Munchkins".

If I am able to beat the game ... the story ... with simple green or blue gear, why should I ever bother to get better ones? I am in for quests and story. They can keep their PvP. So why do I need the better gear? To play dungeons in Veteran level.

But why should I do that? Is there a reason, why I shall play these dungeons again? Is there a quest series to solve? A story to follow? No?

Only to farm better gear to get into new veteran dungeons I have no reason to enter in the first place? Because reasons?

So I have no reason at all ever getting better armor than that. I am not a casual, playing games for a long, long time. I played all sorts of MMO. All sorts of games.All sorts of hardcore games. Do you know how big my backlog is? Why should I spend all my time with one game. There are so many games to play.

But my main reason to play anything is FUN and replayability. Trying something else with an other build.

I bought this game very cheap, but after playing for 2 days, i decided to pay a 3 months subscription. Because I liked it enough, to invest at least this amount of money.

But in the future, if they do as they plan to do things, I will buy subscriptions only sporadic, to fill my crafting bag, and get some crowns for the DLC that interests me. I don't buy The brotherhood. I play the questline only one time, even in the single player ES games. And I won't buy The Imperial city, becasue I am not interested in any form of PvP.

I think danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO is right. With that tactic they WILL loose many subscribers, And if they screw up the "One Tamriel" update, the loss will be massive.

Does anybody remember the *** up of the enemy level scaling in Oblivion? If they are not able to do it properly, this will be the same here. No feel of progression at all, no feel things getting easier. That would be deadly for this game. I can guarantee at least this.

They should study Borderlands very closely. This is the way, you have to do it. Set the NPC level at the moment,. the player enter the zone for the first time. And then level up, without level scaling the enemies further! This is essential, giving the player first the feel of a challenge, and after that, the feel of level growth. They did understand, what players really want.

This can be done similar, if they add one level to the chars effective level, every time the levels up his real level based on his level he entered the new region. In this case, you have to remember the players real level at zone entry, not the NPC/monster level like in Borderlands.

If they don't do that, we get another Oblivion disaster.

I enjoyed reading your reply.It was very well written and easy to understand in regards to your points.
I do really understand the things you meant.I just have more faith in ESO and believe it will continue on for a very long time. There are too many people who actually want this game to continue and get better.
I play ESO all the time because it entertains me and I enjoy it.Each alt is different and I run the quests in alternative ways.
I havent gotten bored ,and while I do have other games I play as well,one of them certainly is NOT OB.
I found that game too easy to beat,even with its two expansions.And the character creation was hideous.I preferred MW to it. I know I'm weird,but MW is just too much like a home,while OB was a shallow rather empty Neanderthal inhabited playground.
I hate having to admit this,but in the last few days,reading all the threads about the "Tamriel One" hating,I have began to wonder. So much is being said about how it is now useless to continue playing without vet levels,and only CPs.
I was playing a few hours ago,and suddenly felt like that.Like what is the point now.There is nothing to reach for.No goals anymore.
I so hated this feeling!
I felt really bad,and turned the game off for a while.I'll be back inworld about 9 or 10 pm.

WynonaStealth

Well the reason players are only sticking around for a few weeks is becAUSE there's only a couple weeks of content in these later DLCs. I think I'd rather have larger Wrothgar sized DLCs SLIGHTLY less frequently. I dunno tho maybe with One Tamriel I'll be able to play older zones that I loved so much at a more reasonable difficulty

Lysette

I think that once One Tamriel will be implemented, the whole thing needs individual difficulty sliders, so that anyone can adjust the difficulty to his/her playstyle and character - some need it more relaxed others need it harder - we need these sliders and once all will be scaled, it should be easy to implement that.

Edit: I think this is necessary, because a lot of dissatisfaction comes from this, newbies might find it too hard at first and give up and once you get into the game more and develop your individual combat style, you get powerful and would want to adjust it to be a little harder. I had to do that with other TES games as well, after some time I had to raise the difficulty to make it exciting again. And Bethesda had done this intentionally so, that you could even adjust it while you were in combat - it just makes it more enjoyable.

Ethona

So my guess, and also my opinion, is ZOS saw how well SWTOR's monthly 1 hour gameplay updates are going and decided to copy? Forget you ZOS! I enjoy a great and vast high fantasy story base MMORPG like LOTRO and ESO, but these tiny updates are running me away. The only DLC I bought thus far has been Wrothgar and it looks like it may just be the last. I don't care to be a thief or a shadow killer. So those two DLC are a no go for me. Now we all learn that ESO will be focus on these tiny DLC and zones smaller than those in Neverwinter! Seems as if there are no more good high fantasy MMORPG left to buy into and enjoy. Sadly LOTRO is pretty much at the end of its life so no where to escape to other than just being done with gaming altogether. Sure would make my wife happy at least. Wrothgar size DLC or zero monies from me.

Darlgon

Lysette wrote: »

I think that once One Tamriel will be implemented, the whole thing needs individual difficulty sliders, so that anyone can adjust the difficulty to his/her playstyle and character - some need it more relaxed others need it harder - we need these sliders and once all will be scaled, it should be easy to implement that.

ROLF.. sorry. Since this is multiplayer game. the only way a player can slide the difficulty of the game is to pley in lower level (green or white) armor or in lower level weapons. Maybe play without any points in your skills. The slider you speak of, to make the MOBS hit harder/softer will never be avail to players. Devs have to make mobs hit everyone the same, filtered by their weapons/armor/skills.

Immortal_Dark410

Elfdominion4 wrote: »

Learning about the new policy ZENIMAX Paul Sage decided to leave the company, it is realized that it leads to the death of the game .Before he has been laid off many developers, who are now in the company can not cope with the task, here's a small update release.

The high price of the game, membership and some things in the crowns Store suggests that developers are interested in the money, rather than the development of the game. As an example it was possible to give a panther dromatha for completing hard mode MOL.

I play with the release of the game and remember all the hardcore content, a new trial Sanctum, dungeon, world bosses, but now all of you can go solo in addition to a trial and Dumb dungeon. Developers listen to beginners and those who are not able to overcome the requirements for hardcore content, and over time it becomes easier and there is no desire to play this game. If earlier it was possible to say that the game is worth the money that it costs to buy, at the moment it does not say. Even at the largest game exhibition came from old news. Today I learned that the developers will produce small DLC for returning igrakov and I was very disappointed in the company. If developers do not reconsider its policy, then the game will soon die, and they will not stay the choice of how to make it free to play. At this point in the game is nothing to do, and in the next update too. Maybe I will follow the example of many of my guild and leave the project.

If 1 individual leaving killed the game , then how is it still going ? lol , Though i dont disagree with some of there Crown store pricing issues, you have to remember at the end of the day Zenimax is a company, there here to make $$ & if someone doesn't want to give them there $$ its up to them & Vice versa if they want too its there own choice.

You have played since the release and yet your complaining that all there is left is Solo play or repetitive content & that developers listen to beginners & people who cant overcome the "Hardcore content" but to fair & honest, lets say for example if you developed a game and only 1% out of 100% could do the hardcore content, im sure you would also rethink things and keep tweaking it to make it so a majority can complete it. If you have no desire to play then you shouldn't play a game you dont want too, but by making this post it proves you dont have the resolve to quit instead your gonna keep playing yet complaining at the same time which wont help you or anyone else.So just walk away and play something else , maybe a break is what you need & Come back later when you feel the game is better for you.

lathbury

JD2013 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Well, they need to seriously consider incorporating Arenas, fixing the lag in cyrodil if they do not a want a good portion of their loyalty subs to leave. The replay value is not great atm.

Arenas and pvp battlegrounds are in active development, as has been stated by the devs.

They will get talked about closer to them being released.

like spell crafting or part 2 of the justice system keep drinking the cool aid

JD2013

lathbury wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Well, they need to seriously consider incorporating Arenas, fixing the lag in cyrodil if they do not a want a good portion of their loyalty subs to leave. The replay value is not great atm.

Arenas and pvp battlegrounds are in active development, as has been stated by the devs.

They will get talked about closer to them being released.

like spell crafting or part 2 of the justice system keep drinking the cool aid

I would rather a cup of tea than that sugary muck, thank you

Lava_Croft

OP, this game is not for (semi-) hardcore players, this game is for casuals. Just leave while you can and watch from a safe distance how these terrible developers treat one of the biggest franchises in gaming.

VincentBlanquin

Lava_Croft wrote: »

OP, this game is not for (semi-) hardcore players, this game is for casuals. Just leave while you can and watch from a safe distance how these terrible developers treat one of the biggest franchises in gaming.

sales dont outweight damage on brand

Mettaricana

Abeille wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I think some DLC will be smaller, some larger. We shall see.

I agree with this, although I'll need another "Wrothgar-sized" DLC to be assured that we will still get bigger DLC instead of only TG/DB-sized DLC. I think Vvardenfell will put my worries to rest.

Db and thieves was mote of a mechanics and quality of life dlc that returns reason to revisit other locations. I would like to see the hiding spots and tresspassing added to rest of the world as well. But also zos needs to stop lumping small dlcs back to back it makes us all feel cheated on content its like here's 25 $ for 3 hours of content... I'd likr some more wrothgar sized dlc with collectibles unlockables public dungeons etc also group dungeons and an actual expansion of the main story of the companions like meet up again in hammerfell with sai sahan and rest of skyrim maybe meet lyris more crazy stuff in imperial downtown with abnar a rematch with the mannimarco that survived molag bals defeat. Maybe an expanded war storyline with an instanced cyrodil for pve where the three factions finally go to war for the tower as an end all dlc for the faction wars. Each having a non canon optional ending for your faction.

Smileybones

VincentBlanquin

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Elfdominion4 wrote: »

New policy Zenimax leads to the death of the game.

Firor says that Zenimax is aiming to release multiple, smaller DLC packs to cater to players who return to the game intermittently, creating something akin to 'episodes' for the game:

"It’s interesting to see what happens when you take away the subscription model away," Firor explained. "You don’t see a hardcore playstyle - like playing for six months and then quitting - we don’t see that. We have a lot of players who will play for two or three weeks because they want to get through a zone and then stop. Then they come back two months later for another month, because there’s no pressure to play all of it at once.

"Our DLC packs cater to that, because they’re smaller, bite-size chunks of story and associated quests."

Well, if that was the death-stroke, then it sounds to me like it started dying when they abandoned the subscription model in the first place.

according to me , game start dieing a month after launch. Launch was bad and they never recover

Odditorium

The game will not die. Most of the people who have been playing since beta/launch will be extinct. This game is changing it's business model, not dying.

negbert

I'm still happily playing the same quests in skyrim over and over again with new characters. ESO is no different.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

WarlordsOfMars wrote: »

The game will not die. Most of the people who have been playing since beta/launch will be extinct. This game is changing it's business model, not dying.

Depends on how you see it, the good game that was before B2P is gone, now all that's left is the garbage that got introduced with B2P and has gone downhill from there.

NadiusMaximus

Maybe they should make dlc that takes longer than 3 weeks to clear if they want people to play for six months at a time. Shocking they will now crank out episodes who would have thought this game with such pedigree would start the door thrills of death do soon.


Oh, yah, everyone that said this would happen two years ago.

Khaos_Bane

@Elfdominion4 . Your OP doesn't even make sense. How does smaller DLC not equal less end game content? They probably plan on releasing more trials LIKE THEY JUST DID. They plan to scale CRAGLORN and other trials and they created vMA. All of this has been done under the small DLC philosophy. Your statements don't make sense.

Magenpie

I never understand how mmo players can refer to themselves as 'hardcore', yet don't see the massive breadth of appeal an mmorpg must have.

ALL the player styles are important. ALL the money is important, every last penny. PvP money is no more important or vital to an mmo than the *sigh*...casual or raider money. And no player faction is more loyal than another. Every game has it's dedicated fans in every group. And every RL budget. The snobbery is not only pointless, because we can't see the spreadsheets in the dev offices to really tell us what's going on, but it's also completely unhelpful. We should all be rooting for every aspect of the game, that way it stays alive.

If you want an mmo world to live and breathe, it has to be a place players want to inhabit for many hours at a time. It has to offer a variety of things to do, and that's exactly how most players approach it, they do a variety of things in different proportions - some PvE, some dungeons, a bit of raiding with their guild maybe, some PvP.

Incidentally, the variety of play and players must be fairly important to PvPers because why would they be here - why not just go and play Overwatch or DOTA or similar? You get all the PvP you want in spades with those. But, who would you show off your [Pauldrons of I Roxxor] to if the filthy little casuals weren't there to be...ahem...impressed?

If you've been playing the same mmo for two years without trying anything else, no wonder you're bored and hacked off. But how on earth could a developer cater to your very demanding dedication? Go and try something else, then come back, see your fave game afresh.

As so many people on the forum love to point out, the game is a business, you are a unit, they don't owe you anything but what you bought in the first place. You can *ask* for stuff, but stamping your feet and wailing, 'But I've been here from the beginning! Why aren't I more important to you?' isn't going to get you anywhere.

As for the game dying, ZOS aren't idiots, they have their Money Men telling them where the cash is. They know what their player base is doing. Don't you think the direction of the game comes from that knowledge?

You can express your disappointment, you can ask for different stuff, but claiming to be more important or flinging around made-up theories about 'state of the game' is just raising your blood-pressure for no good reason. The only thing you can do is look at how other similar games handle their output, use it as source material, and say, "Look, it seems to be working for this one." Sort of, because of course, you can't see their spreadsheets either.


And listen, dramatic 'I'm leaving' posts are an MMO Forum Cliché. If you really want to leave, fair enough, but you'll be taken much more seriously if you send a reasoned private email about your concerns and why you are leaving, to ZOS themselves. I think there's also a comments box when you cancel your sub.

Axoinus

I just don't get these posts. Think about what you are saying...in a nutshell, the argument from the hardcore folks is that Zos is going to kill the game because they are catering to the largest porportion of their customer base.

I'd recommend you read that last part and think about it real real real hard. Keep an open mind and dwell and meditate on what that last statement is saying. It might take a few days for it to sink in. Don't give up on me. You can do this. I will leave you with a hint: Math.

waterfairy

This shouldn't come as a surprise after they trimmed the original team that worked on Orisinium. I never expected to see something as nicely done as that dlc again and it's the only one that I purchased.

Sausage

I prefer DLCs over Expansion, I wouldnt want to wait 2-3 year to get content, in fact Expansions seems to work only for WoW, most games survive to first Expansion, but when second comes players are usually long gone, with DLCs you can get players more easily hooked imho.

Cuyler

What I find interesting with Matt's statement is the link to "cause and effect". When you release small content updates, wouldn't you expect then to see players logging in for a few weeks, completing it, and then logging off until the next comes out?

And if you created larger content, wouldn't it make sense that people would log in for longer periods to complete it, then log off when it's done?

Finally, since ZOS neglected the endgame hardcore community from the beginning, with miniscule content (3 trials?), and not addressing bugs and cheats in a timely fashion most of them left early on for better hardcore games. It makes total sense that the data reflects this and now you see a lot of casuals.

To me this sounds like a problem in diversifying ZOS' marketing strategy, and instead of addressing a problem of getting more players to log in more (by offering more larger hardcore content), the company is associating data caused by a mistake in marketing and development to how people actually want to play this game.

The way the game is set up, is FORCING us to play casually, and the data reflects this. Give us better/more options and you may see your data swing the other direction.

@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert