A Response to "One Tamriel" criticism

Elsonso

Elloa wrote: »

I outleveled the content the entiere duration of my leveling at release of the game. Not by one or two level, but by 7 to 10 lvl. Simply because I was doing ALL the quest, and doing Dungeons, or Cyrodill activities with my guild at the same time. I never grinded, but my quest where always grey, unchallenging, and un-rewarding. And that was NOT fun. Yet, I wanted to know the story.

ESO should have been factionless, open, and levelless since its release. Better too late than never!

I really don't care whether the game has levels or not. In all my RPG games, leveling just happens, and I rarely pay attention to it.

The only time I have to pay attention to levels is when it is an important part of the game. In Oblivion, leveling worked against the character, so there were a few reasons to prevent leveling and a specific order to play the game to make it work. In Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, and Fallout 4, it is safe to ignore leveling completely and just let it happen and assign the perks and points.

In ESO, this is the way I feel about Champion Points. I get them, but I rarely use them right away. Leveling is important in ESO to prevent getting the grey quests, and so ESO is more like Oblivion in that levels work against the character.

My perspective is that ESO needs more things along the lines of Champion Points, where progression happens as play happens. They should simply drop Levels entirely, have characters earn Champion Points starting at Tutorial Exit, and make skill lines (combat, crafting, etc) and Champion Points be how characters are developed. Expand the Skills so that they don't max out for a long long while, so that returning players always have something to build that isn't in a new DLC.

WeerW3ir

OP is right. What is works in a singleplayer could destroy a mmo. Taking away every challange because some nooblet cant lvl? so lets destroy the full game and add battlescale for everywhere... nonsense... Then why Cadwell silver and Gold? they was for nice veteran ranks. now for cp-s. (that part is ok).

ZOS plz.... think a little. You want more player to back. This is not the way. Some say mainquests was already boring.. no endgame content just another alliance quests. This wont bring them back. Why would you do the quests if you can grind... i just say again what is works in skyrim wont work here...

Also speaking of which... Why not the zones scale to us after lvl50? make all to scale to us but not before lvl50.
and ofc... the cross alliance zones from 2015 E3 was scrapped? ome zone would be ok. but NOT ALL.

Conquistador

People never think of the economic repercussions of doing something like this. If you battle level everything in the game, everything obtained and used to aid you in leveling now becomes even more worthless than it is now. No longer will you need to buy iron ingots, steel ingots and so forth to build gear. Some players have a lot of gold and it does not matter to them. The only way people will be able to earn gold and keep the economy going is by getting to level 50 and making gold gear. Therefore, only top tier materials will be in demand. Everything under that will be scarce and worthless since quest items from new DLC areas are BOP and FREE.

Eshelmen

Scaling to me seems like it could be okay, IF, there are options to change the difficulty.

Diablo 3 is an amazing example of how good scaling with various difficulties can be.

UrQuan

Conquistador wrote: »

People never think of the economic repercussions of doing something like this. If you battle level everything in the game, everything obtained and used to aid you in leveling now becomes even more worthless than it is now. No longer will you need to buy iron ingots, steel ingots and so forth to build gear. Some players have a lot of gold and it does not matter to them. The only way people will be able to earn gold and keep the economy going is by getting to level 50 and making gold gear. Therefore, only top tier materials will be in demand. Everything under that will be scarce and worthless since quest items from new DLC areas are BOP and FREE.

What? There's going to be exactly the same demand for lower level mats as there is now. A level 10 character is still going to get the same gear drops that they get now, except that now they won't get drops that may be a few levels in the wrong direction.

If anyone leveling a newer character wants to pick and choose the gear for them, they'll need those iron ingots etc, just like they do now. If anyone leveling a newer character wants to wear whatever random gear drops they get, then they won't bother with crafted stuff, just like they don't bother with crafted stuff now.

captainwolfos

Presumably One Tamriel will mean I can solo the Craglorn quests, which is the main thing I'm looking forward to with this. Craglorn is a great zone with so much wasted potential.

Everything else is just a bonus, honestly.

Elloa

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Progression and leveling are outdated features in a MMO nowadays. [snip

ESO should have been factionless, open, and levelless since its release. Better too late than never!

@Elloa, you're literally talking about everything I care about, everything that I play for. Progression and that sense of growth is why I'm here. Progression of my character. Progression of the storyline (which does require a certain amount of linear progression.). A sense of import and meaning to my choices (including my choice of Alliance).

You don't like any of that. That's fine. It's a great big world full of plenty of things for everyone.

Only it's not, because damn near everything is already aimed at people who want what you want. And yet, one of the few times someone gives me what I'm looking for just has to be taken away.

I understand that. Especially for the faction factor. Thing is that. the Faction pride was broken as soon as you could pick up any race in any faction and in the end, not as much poeple are involved in PVP than it was expected.

Regarding the progression however... No level doesn't mean no progression. Especially not in end game. You will still have the Champion point. You will still have the gear hunt. You will still have more challenging content to defeat.

The very good thing that One Tamriel bring is flexibility, better socialization, more easy to group up with poeple.
As guild leader, lvls have always been a pain in the *** to organise any sort of activity. At the release of ESO, the only events I could set up, with all people within my guild of various lvl, was fishing nights and Cyrodiil PVE activity (cause it was the only place we scaled). Dungeons back then were not scalable.
I was so irritated, because GW2 was such a dream for a Guild Leader! While leveling existed, it was never a problem to organise events, because the content was always relevant for everyone. It was never obselete or pointless to go back in a "lower" lvl zone or Dungeons.

I believe that the positive side of One Tamriel will heavily outweight the few down sides. In MMO nowadays, I think flexibility is way more important, as players aren't anymore (speaking of the majority) loyal to a single title like it was in the past.


But heh! That's just my opinion.

ZakuBeta

"In general, higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."

One Tamriel will not make all the world level 50, it will now level you down as well as up depending on the zones level. At least that I what it sounds like to me.

AzraelKrieg

ZakuBeta wrote: »

"In general, higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."

One Tamriel will not make all the world level 50, it will now level you down as well as up depending on the zones level. At least that I what it sounds like to me.

Actually goes the other way. It will make the world CR160 and will scale everyone who is below that to CR150

mingh615

Lysette wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I'm going to make a prediction. At some point in the future, you won't choose an Alliance at character creation. Only those players who wish to participate in Cyrodiil will choose their Alliance in the Alliance War screen and can change with the same restrictions that they can currently change their campaigns. "One Tamriel" is a move in this direction.

That's actually what I proposed in the Beta, to allow players more freedom and the possibility to involve themselves or not in the Cyrodiil war. It actually make a lot more sense, to actively pledge your allegience to a faction than the system we have now.

This would be a great move in the right direction, in my opinion.

Yeah, this is basically like it is resolved in EVE online - there is faction war, but it is separated from the rest as in a different game mode. As long as one is not joining into faction war, it is an open world, where you can visit and live in all of the empire factions as long as your reputation there is not too bad. Whereas if you join faction war, you are no longer welcome in the opposing empires, but hunted down by their navy (and other faction war players of course). This feels a bit weird, as joining faction war is a bit like joining into a parallel universe, where different rules apply, even you are in the same universe with all other players - still it works well, if you can ignore the fact, that different rules apply dependent on your faction war status.

True, however you left out an important fact, anyone can kill you at anytime in EvE whether you have signed up for faction war or decide to explore the outer zones of space.

EvE isn't a huge playground that players can wander around in without risk and every player understands undocking can be unforgiving and expensive.

While I have no issue with people wanting the obvious problems with leveling resolved, I disagree with the move to make all of Tamriel a big playground for all factions.

This proposed change makes ESO a PVE centric offering with no point in faction warfare.

IMO this is a significant change from what was advertised and what I purchased, so I don't support this part of the proposed change coming with One Tamriel.

For those that want to play with their friends from other factions, just level a character in each faction. With the removal of VR levels and even taking into account current leveling issues, it takes relatively little time.

UncannyLinderman

DDuke wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

Criticism: Battle leveling and freedom to travel everywhere removes the sense of progression and makes the idea of leveling pointless.

Response: A battle leveled level 20 character has fewer attribute and skill points than a level 50 character. They also don't have access to endgame gear. This does make lower level characters more limited and less powerful than their endgame counterparts. So there are still good reasons to want your character to get to higher levels. And as I said before, you don't have to go to other alliance zones or skip ahead if you don't want to. The game will provide the same kind of progression it would now if you played through all the zones on level, which usually doesn't even happen because you outlevel the content so fast now, especially if you take detours.

A battle leveled level 20 character has the exact same stats as a level 49 character, thus those attributes points just became worthless. Skill points don't matter, you need only one DPS skill and one healing skill on your bar to complete all of the leveling content.

You do not need level 50 stats to complete any of the leveling content - if you did, the game would be broken from the get-go for new players as everything is now on the same linear scaled difficulty.

And no, you do not "outlevel" the content - not unless you grind rather than quest.
Source: 8 max level characters leveled up by questing.


A successful game design leaves higher level areas in the game to serve as carrots to keep playing, and also to add danger to the game world. The character progression removing aspect of "One Tamriel" is the opposite of successful game design.

I dunno, every character I've made, with eso plus exp boost, when I do every single available quest in stone falls before moving on, I'm usually close to over leveling. After Deshaan, all my quests are green and by the time I got to Eastmarch they were all grayed and I was over leveled. It is possible to over level as is, just be natural progression.