Why isn't moonstone the altmer crafting material?

RealLifeRedguard

This has been bugging me for a little while.

Moonstone as a concept was first introduced in Skyrim, where it's revealed to be the material the altmer use to make their weapons and armor:

"For centuries the secret of making Elven armor was a closely guarded secret on Summerset Isle. Then the Betrayal of Ulvul Llaren brought it the [sic] rest of Tamriel. Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era. When Ulvul escaped, he could think of no greater punishment to mete out to his cruel master than to reveal all his secrets to the world. Thus we came to know that Moonstone is the key ingredient in Elven armor, and that salt water must be used to quench the hot metal."

Examples of moonstone armor:


http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/e/e2/Elven_Armor_Bandit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120825102910


So, if moonstone is the signature crafting material of the altmer, why was it given to the khajiit?

Thoughts?

Tryxus

Jone and Jode, this one thought it would be obvious, yes?

RealLifeRedguard

Tryxus wrote: »

Jone and Jode, this one thought it would be obvious, yes?

So because it has the word "moon" in the name it belongs to the khajiit?

phaneub17_ESO

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

RealLifeRedguard

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

The fact that altmer used moonstone was revealed to the world at that time. Apparently they had been using it long before then, which is why it's strange that moonstone was given tot he khajiit as their crafting motif and not the altmer.

"For centuries the secret of making Elven armor was a closely guarded secret on Summerset Isle. Then the Betrayal of Ulvul Llaren brought it the [sic] rest of Tamriel. Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era. When Ulvul escaped, he could think of no greater punishment to mete out to his cruel master than to reveal all his secrets to the world. Thus we came to know that Moonstone is the key ingredient in Elven armor, and that salt water must be used to quench the hot metal."

The world at large learned of this later on, but altmer had been using moonstone for a long time.

Abeille

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

This is probably it. Note how current Altmer "light armor" (medium armor in this game) actually is right now. It looks nothing like what we know as Elven Armor: It is non-metalic light armor.

A theory: Nuulion, said master smith, took advantage of the the alliance and cultural exchange with the Khajiit and started making armor with a golden eagle-inspired motif using moonstone.

Also let me take this opportunity to repeat myself a little: Light and medium Altmer armor are extremely ugly, they look sloppy and the stitching look amateur at best. The Altmer care a lot about aesthetics and perfection, and this just doesn't fit them.

RealLifeRedguard

Abeille wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

This is probably it. Note how current Altmer "light armor" (medium armor in this game) actually is right now. It looks nothing like what we know as Elven Armor: It is non-metalic light armor.

A theory: Nuulion, said master smith, took advantage of the the alliance and cultural exchange with the Khajiit and started making armor with a golden eagle-inspired motif using moonstone.

Also let me take this opportunity to repeat myself a little: Light and medium Altmer armor are extremely ugly, they look sloppy and the stitching look amateur at best. The Altmer care a lot about aesthetics and perfection, and this just doesn't fit them.

Again though, altmer had apparently been doing this centuries before it was revealed. Heck, the ayleids were using it too judging by the elven armor in Oblivion, which would make the process even older.

I do agree that the altmer crafting motif is ugly as sin when it comes to light and medium armor, just another reason I would have preferred the classic moonstone designs.

Abeille

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

This is probably it. Note how current Altmer "light armor" (medium armor in this game) actually is right now. It looks nothing like what we know as Elven Armor: It is non-metalic light armor.

A theory: Nuulion, said master smith, took advantage of the the alliance and cultural exchange with the Khajiit and started making armor with a golden eagle-inspired motif using moonstone.

Also let me take this opportunity to repeat myself a little: Light and medium Altmer armor are extremely ugly, they look sloppy and the stitching look amateur at best. The Altmer care a lot about aesthetics and perfection, and this just doesn't fit them.

Again though, altmer had apparently been doing this centuries before it was revealed. Heck, the ayleids were using it too judging by the elven armor in Oblivion, which would make the process even older.

I do agree that the altmer crafting motif is ugly as sin when it comes to light and medium armor, just another reason I would have preferred the classic moonstone designs.

Maybe the Altmer of Summerset were, the ones who do not have nearly as much contact with the outsiders as the Altmer of Auridon.
Here's hope that, if we get a DLC about the main island, we get "Ancient Altmer Style" that uses something like "Refined Moonstone" and looks like Elven Armor.

The real life, not in-world reason: When ESO was being developed, Oblivion was the newest TES (which is why ESO feels much more like Oblivion than like Skyrim, or at least it is how I feel). A lot of details introduced by Skyrim were not included in ESO because of that.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Kahjiit stole it from the filthy elves.

RealLifeRedguard

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

This is probably it. Note how current Altmer "light armor" (medium armor in this game) actually is right now. It looks nothing like what we know as Elven Armor: It is non-metalic light armor.

A theory: Nuulion, said master smith, took advantage of the the alliance and cultural exchange with the Khajiit and started making armor with a golden eagle-inspired motif using moonstone.

Also let me take this opportunity to repeat myself a little: Light and medium Altmer armor are extremely ugly, they look sloppy and the stitching look amateur at best. The Altmer care a lot about aesthetics and perfection, and this just doesn't fit them.

Again though, altmer had apparently been doing this centuries before it was revealed. Heck, the ayleids were using it too judging by the elven armor in Oblivion, which would make the process even older.

I do agree that the altmer crafting motif is ugly as sin when it comes to light and medium armor, just another reason I would have preferred the classic moonstone designs.

Maybe the Altmer of Summerset were, the ones who do not have nearly as much contact with the outsiders as the Altmer of Auridon.
Here's hope that, if we get a DLC about the main island, we get "Ancient Altmer Style" that uses something like "Refined Moonstone" and looks like Elven Armor.

The real life, not in-world reason: When ESO was being developed, Oblivion was the newest TES (which is why ESO feels much more like Oblivion than like Skyrim, or at least it is how I feel). A lot of details introduced by Skyrim were not included in ESO because of that.

Ugh. It's such a shame. It makes things a lot more inconsistent and strange, and we have to come up with threadbare explanations and theories to patch everything up.

I really hate resorting to "the people of Auridon don't use moonstone and the only altmer gear we'll ever see in the world are from Auridon and not the mainland" explanation, but it's the best we've got. Though to be fair, if we ever see mainland Summerset, they wont use moonstone as their crafting motif either because the khajiit use it for some reason. It's strange and confusing.

Tryxus

Centuries? And how many centuries does this game take place before Skyrim? When it was first explained that the Altmer use Moonstone?

RealLifeRedguard

Tryxus wrote: »

Centuries? And how many centuries does this game take place before Skyrim? When it was first explained that the Altmer use Moonstone?

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

"For centuries the secret of making Elven armor was a closely guarded secret on Summerset Isle. Then the Betrayal of Ulvul Llaren brought it the [sic] rest of Tamriel. Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era. When Ulvul escaped, he could think of no greater punishment to mete out to his cruel master than to reveal all his secrets to the world. Thus we came to know that Moonstone is the key ingredient in Elven armor, and that salt water must be used to quench the hot metal."

Sometime between the fifth and seventh century of the second era, the world at large learned that the altmer had been using moonstone to make their armor for centuries, and yet in ESO the altmer don't use moonstone at all. There is a contradiction here.

Ghettokid

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

So, if moonstone is the signature crafting material of the altmer, why was it given to the khajiit?

Not so sure that it has been given to khajiit. I've heard that khajiit takes what khajiit wants.

Runs

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

Tryxus

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Centuries? And how many centuries does this game take place before Skyrim? When it was first explained that the Altmer use Moonstone?

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

"For centuries the secret of making Elven armor was a closely guarded secret on Summerset Isle. Then the Betrayal of Ulvul Llaren brought it the [sic] rest of Tamriel. Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era. When Ulvul escaped, he could think of no greater punishment to mete out to his cruel master than to reveal all his secrets to the world. Thus we came to know that Moonstone is the key ingredient in Elven armor, and that salt water must be used to quench the hot metal."

Sometime between the fifth and seventh century of the second era, the world at large learned that the altmer had been using moonstone to make their armor for centuries, and yet in ESO the altmer don't use moonstone at all. There is a contradiction here.

In my defense, I made that comment between Trial bosses. So chill out, k?

Second, Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era.

It means he was working for Nuulion during that time, which mean during the time of ESO he's still working for him. It was after that he escaped that he revealed those secrets, after the events of ESO then.

And this is the last thing I'm gonna say on one of your threads.

Korah_Eaglecry

Abeille wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I don't know how accurate that is, but scroll down to 2E 578 to 2E 583 which is where we are right now, and what you're stating comes 17 years later.

This is probably it. Note how current Altmer "light armor" (medium armor in this game) actually is right now. It looks nothing like what we know as Elven Armor: It is non-metalic light armor.

A theory: Nuulion, said master smith, took advantage of the the alliance and cultural exchange with the Khajiit and started making armor with a golden eagle-inspired motif using moonstone.

Also let me take this opportunity to repeat myself a little: Light and medium Altmer armor are extremely ugly, they look sloppy and the stitching look amateur at best. The Altmer care a lot about aesthetics and perfection, and this just doesn't fit them.

Ive been saying that about Altmer Armor for the longest time. The Light and Medium Armors look amateurish which is a spit in the face of what the Altmer are known for. Their Heavy Armor is far from impressive either.

Ive come to the conclusion there are more than one artist working on ESO Armor. One that does some magnificent work like Redguard, which is stylized, impressive and actually looks like the character is wearing the armor. And some lazy slob that treats the armors he/she draws like its spray painted on the character. Just look at the Seducer Armor for a prime example of this where the edges of the armor where it should end are drawn over with a black line.

RealLifeRedguard

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

Abeille

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

I think what they are saying is that if we, who can make characters of any race and on any alliance, could make Altmer armor using moonstone while the only ones supposed to know how it is done are Altmer themselves, that would go against the fact that it is supposed to be a secret. Other people are not supposed to learn how to craft Elven Armor yet.

The only way would be to make it possible only for Altmer crafters to make it, but that doesn't go well with the game mechanics.

Therefore, we all could either "do it right" or "do it wrong", and since we all "doing it right" would make it not a secret anymore, we are all "doing it wrong". Because it is still a secret.

phaneub17_ESO

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

We're not Altmer aristocrats, I'm not even sure the nobility knows how its made they just receive it when its forged. If he is the only blacksmith that knows how to craft that armor, it's a safe bet he isn't teaching anyone else outside of his forge. It would only go to the highest ranks or the royal family being in limited supply. We're commoners, we only know the basic form and the motifs are handbooks that are written for the general public's knowledge, we wouldn't be able to obtain this kind of craft.

Why is it hard for you to accept you're wrong? They have the timeline right as it seems, it doesn't become public knowledge until much later, not at this current time. Will we see this Armor on NPC's in the future, probably so; acquired by players, maybe, but we won't be able to craft it because it's still a tightly held secret by the forge masters.

RealLifeRedguard

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

I think what they are saying is that if we, who can make characters of any race and on any alliance, could make Altmer armor using moonstone while the only ones supposed to know how it is done are Altmer themselves, that would go against the fact that it is supposed to be a secret. Other people are not supposed to learn how to craft Elven Armor yet.

The only way would be to make it possible only for Altmer crafters to make it, but that doesn't go well with the game mechanics.

Therefore, we all could either "do it right" or "do it wrong", and since we all "doing it right" would make it not a secret anymore, we are all "doing it wrong". Because it is still a secret.

Ahh I see now.

However, I think they could have easily gotten around this by saying that lore-wise it's still a secret to those in the Aldmeri Dominion, and that only a few others know of it. The secret is going to be out completely in a few years, so it wouldn't change much for a few outsiders to have figured it out a couple years beforehand.

I feel like that would have been a much better compromise than just not using it at all for no reason.

While we're on the topic, what exactly is adamantite anyway? The stuff altmer use in ESO? Is it similar to adamantium? Do we have any lore on it?

RealLifeRedguard

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

We're not Altmer aristocrats, I'm not even sure the nobility knows how its made they just receive it when its forged. If he is the only blacksmith that knows how to craft that armor, it's a safe bet he isn't teaching anyone else outside of his forge. It would only go to the highest ranks or the royal family being in limited supply. We're commoners, we only know the basic form and the motifs are handbooks that are written for the general public's knowledge, we wouldn't be able to obtain this kind of craft.

See, this would be a pretty good explanation, except that moonstone isn't restricted to the altmer nobility. I mean, the khajiit are using it all the time apparently. There's no indication whatsoever that it's restricted to the nobility, either, given how commonplace it seems to be among mer in later eras. In Oblivion, the elven armor is also made of moonstone and is supposedly ayleid in design. Its ubiquity would suggest that it was quite commonplace back then too.

But again, the sheer fact that it's being used as common material by the khajiit is strange, and suggests that it's not something only the aristocracy knows about.

phaneub17_ESO

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

I think what they are saying is that if we, who can make characters of any race and on any alliance, could make Altmer armor using moonstone while the only ones supposed to know how it is done are Altmer themselves, that would go against the fact that it is supposed to be a secret. Other people are not supposed to learn how to craft Elven Armor yet.

The only way would be to make it possible only for Altmer crafters to make it, but that doesn't go well with the game mechanics.

Therefore, we all could either "do it right" or "do it wrong", and since we all "doing it right" would make it not a secret anymore, we are all "doing it wrong". Because it is still a secret.

Ahh I see now.

However, I think they could have easily gotten around this by saying that lore-wise it's still a secret to those in the Aldmeri Dominion, and that only a few others know of it. The secret is going to be out completely in a few years, so it wouldn't change much for a few outsiders to have figured it out a couple years beforehand.

I feel like that would have been a much better compromise than just not using it at all for no reason.

While we're on the topic, what exactly is adamantite anyway? The stuff altmer use in ESO? Is it similar to adamantium? Do we have any lore on it?

I guess it's on topic, Adamant was an ancient Greek legendary steel, indestructible when forged. It later got a name change, today we call it Titanium; by itself its a very soft metal, but as an alloy it gives a extremely high toughness rating.

RealLifeRedguard

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

I think what they are saying is that if we, who can make characters of any race and on any alliance, could make Altmer armor using moonstone while the only ones supposed to know how it is done are Altmer themselves, that would go against the fact that it is supposed to be a secret. Other people are not supposed to learn how to craft Elven Armor yet.

The only way would be to make it possible only for Altmer crafters to make it, but that doesn't go well with the game mechanics.

Therefore, we all could either "do it right" or "do it wrong", and since we all "doing it right" would make it not a secret anymore, we are all "doing it wrong". Because it is still a secret.

Ahh I see now.

However, I think they could have easily gotten around this by saying that lore-wise it's still a secret to those in the Aldmeri Dominion, and that only a few others know of it. The secret is going to be out completely in a few years, so it wouldn't change much for a few outsiders to have figured it out a couple years beforehand.

I feel like that would have been a much better compromise than just not using it at all for no reason.

While we're on the topic, what exactly is adamantite anyway? The stuff altmer use in ESO? Is it similar to adamantium? Do we have any lore on it?

I guess it's on topic, Adamant was an ancient Greek legendary steel, indestructible when forged. It later got a name change, today we call it Titanium; by itself its a very soft metal, but as an alloy it gives a extremely high toughness rating.

Interesting! But what exactly is it in the Elder Scrolls? What's the lore on it?

phaneub17_ESO

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

We're not Altmer aristocrats, I'm not even sure the nobility knows how its made they just receive it when its forged. If he is the only blacksmith that knows how to craft that armor, it's a safe bet he isn't teaching anyone else outside of his forge. It would only go to the highest ranks or the royal family being in limited supply. We're commoners, we only know the basic form and the motifs are handbooks that are written for the general public's knowledge, we wouldn't be able to obtain this kind of craft.

See, this would be a pretty good explanation, except that moonstone isn't restricted to the altmer nobility. I mean, the khajiit are using it all the time apparently. There's no indication whatsoever that it's restricted to the nobility, either, given how commonplace it seems to be among mer in later eras. In Oblivion, the elven armor is also made of moonstone and is supposedly ayleid in design. Its ubiquity would suggest that it was quite commonplace back then too.

But again, the sheer fact that it's being used as common material by the khajiit is strange, and suggests that it's not something only the aristocracy knows about.

True, but if you don't know how to use it any other way, it's just another stone to you. Before the Dunmer created Skooma, the Khajiiti would have never thought of using their most commonly used food stock this way until after. Not a great comparison, but its if you only know to use it one way, that how you'll see it. Another example is a Flaming Homer using children's cough syrup as its secret ingredient!

RealLifeRedguard

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

We're not Altmer aristocrats, I'm not even sure the nobility knows how its made they just receive it when its forged. If he is the only blacksmith that knows how to craft that armor, it's a safe bet he isn't teaching anyone else outside of his forge. It would only go to the highest ranks or the royal family being in limited supply. We're commoners, we only know the basic form and the motifs are handbooks that are written for the general public's knowledge, we wouldn't be able to obtain this kind of craft.

See, this would be a pretty good explanation, except that moonstone isn't restricted to the altmer nobility. I mean, the khajiit are using it all the time apparently. There's no indication whatsoever that it's restricted to the nobility, either, given how commonplace it seems to be among mer in later eras. In Oblivion, the elven armor is also made of moonstone and is supposedly ayleid in design. Its ubiquity would suggest that it was quite commonplace back then too.

But again, the sheer fact that it's being used as common material by the khajiit is strange, and suggests that it's not something only the aristocracy knows about.

True, but if you don't know how to use it any other way, it's just another stone to you. Before the Dunmer created Skooma, the Khajiiti would have never thought of using their most commonly used food stock this way until after. Not a great comparison, but its if you only know to use it one way, that how you'll see it. Another example is a Flaming Homer using children's cough syrup as its secret ingredient!

So our explanation is that khajiit use moonstone armor but don't know how to use it "right", and that altmer wont use moonstone armor until a few years later, at which point a dunmer slave will tell everyone?

phaneub17_ESO

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Centuries BEFORE it was revealed in the second era. I'm starting to wonder if anyone read the quote I linked...

That is exactly why it isn't...

It hasn't been revealed yet. We are learning what we know from books if we learned that it would have already been revealed.

We are getting bad information, but still using it as if it was good. Just like the people who continuously spout the crap about waiting for all pinions, or the people who say bites are moon phased based. One person says it, another doesn't know so repeats it as truth... When in fact ZOS has already said both are wrong.

We just don't know the real truth yet, wait a few centuries and we will.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying here...

The altmer have been using moonstone in their armor for centuries. It was their secret ingrediant, but the majority of the world didn't know this until the fifth or sixth century of the second era. But they were still using it in their armor centuries beforehand.

It's clear Zenimax made a mistake here. Why is that so hard to accept? The altmer should be using moonstone in their armor, they've been using it for centuries at least, and the rest of the world is going to learn about it in a few years.

We're not Altmer aristocrats, I'm not even sure the nobility knows how its made they just receive it when its forged. If he is the only blacksmith that knows how to craft that armor, it's a safe bet he isn't teaching anyone else outside of his forge. It would only go to the highest ranks or the royal family being in limited supply. We're commoners, we only know the basic form and the motifs are handbooks that are written for the general public's knowledge, we wouldn't be able to obtain this kind of craft.

See, this would be a pretty good explanation, except that moonstone isn't restricted to the altmer nobility. I mean, the khajiit are using it all the time apparently. There's no indication whatsoever that it's restricted to the nobility, either, given how commonplace it seems to be among mer in later eras. In Oblivion, the elven armor is also made of moonstone and is supposedly ayleid in design. Its ubiquity would suggest that it was quite commonplace back then too.

But again, the sheer fact that it's being used as common material by the khajiit is strange, and suggests that it's not something only the aristocracy knows about.

True, but if you don't know how to use it any other way, it's just another stone to you. Before the Dunmer created Skooma, the Khajiiti would have never thought of using their most commonly used food stock this way until after. Not a great comparison, but its if you only know to use it one way, that how you'll see it. Another example is a Flaming Homer using children's cough syrup as its secret ingredient!

So our explanation is that khajiit use moonstone armor but don't know how to use it "right", and that altmer wont use moonstone armor until a few years later, at which point a dunmer slave will tell everyone?

Exactly! As far as the Khajiit know, Moonstone looks pretty and reminds them of their moon deities so they use it. It's more ceremonial or a fashion statement to them not knowing the true potential. The Dunmer slave knew, he had to have helped them load and move it over the years if he hasn't been told directly, watching them do their work in silence.

Aeladiir

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

This has been bugging me for a little while.

Moonstone as a concept was first introduced in Skyrim, where it's revealed to be the material the altmer use to make their weapons and armor:

"For centuries the secret of making Elven armor was a closely guarded secret on Summerset Isle. Then the Betrayal of Ulvul Llaren brought it the [sic] rest of Tamriel. Ulvul was a Dark Elf slave, working the bellows for Nuulion, master smith of the isle from the fifth through the seventh century of the second era. When Ulvul escaped, he could think of no greater punishment to mete out to his cruel master than to reveal all his secrets to the world. Thus we came to know that Moonstone is the key ingredient in Elven armor, and that salt water must be used to quench the hot metal."

Examples of moonstone armor:


http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/e/e2/Elven_Armor_Bandit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120825102910


So, if moonstone is the signature crafting material of the altmer, why was it given to the khajiit?

Thoughts?

This is easily explainable. The Elven armor you are refering to is made out of MOONSTONE INGOTS, not moonstone. The armo r is probably being used on the larger of the Summerset isles and crafted out of moonstone ore. We'll find out when that DLC comes out.

The armor in the game is just one of many styles and is not as complex as the actual High Elven style.

RealLifeRedguard

So, barring the pretty good in-game explanations we've all come up with to explain this, why do you think Zenimax made the decision to switch moonstone from altmer to khajiit? Also, what is adamantite? Is there any lore on it? In ESO particularly. Is it the same as adamantium?

Edit: UESP seems to think adamantium and adamantite are the same thing en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Adamantium_Ore#Adamantium_Ore

I have trouble believing this though. Isn't adamantium the strongest metal known to men and mer? I feel like moonstone would be much cheaper to work with than giving everyone in your army adamantium.

Aeladiir

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Adamantine

RealLifeRedguard

Aeladiir wrote: »

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Adamantine

Wow. So it is the same thing. So, every altmer is wearing adamantium armor? That's pretty badass, but also pretty overpowered lore-wise. Not sure why they switched to Moonstone later on.

Abeille

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

So, barring the pretty good in-game explanations we've all come up with to explain this, why do you think Zenimax made the decision to switch moonstone from altmer to khajiit? Also, what is adamantite? Is there any lore on it? In ESO particularly. Is it the same as adamantium?

Edit: UESP seems to think adamantium and adamantite are the same thing en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Adamantium_Ore#Adamantium_Ore

I have trouble believing this though. Isn't adamantium the strongest metal known to men and mer? I feel like moonstone would be much cheaper to work with than giving everyone in your army adamantium.

I think they didn't make the conscious decision to do that; that part of the game simply was already ready when Skyrim was released. Afaik, ESO was already in development for 4 years before Skyrim's release. It is possible that no one thought to go back and change it.

I think it is a lucky coincidence that Altmer using moonstone is a secret on this time period. If they made moonstone a crafting ingredient for Altmer instead of for Khajiit, we would be discussing how it is a secret if every crafter knows it.