Greedy Guilds

Khajiit_Ri

This one has noticed many threads pertaining to guilds and trading, this of course comes from a simple Khajiit who might not grasp the delicacies of Tamriel's economy, but still he can't keep him from wondering about the gratification of greedy little horkers cornering the market. Why does revenue seem to be the primary focus of players? Why do players entertain guilds who seem to overcharge for mats? This one does not understand.

Khajiit-Ri has boasted about guild he is part of, his guild master is fun and doesn't seem to carry a chip on shoulder that many other guilds have. But he says our primary goal as a guild is to help each other and influence guilds to do the same. One day while waking along the shores of Khenarthi's Roost, he says to this one, "Most guilds are a scam, a number of them would make Ya'Tirrje blush." He proceeded to tell me about our guilds history and our main objective which is to completely transform the economy. This one wonders how much merit is there to his claims? He says the biggest reason guilds are scams is because they are nothing but hydra with dollar signs in their eyes. He says certain guilds are subsidiaries of larger guilds.

But more importantly he says if our guild continues to work together there's nothing we can't achieve. Guild master says all mats are free, and when we work together with the proper allocation of points obtaining the mats become a breeze, by helping one the group becomes stronger. He does have a strict guidelines, some even seem like complete lunacy, but before coming to this guild, this one was part of some well-known very rich guilds that require fees, and so forth, but Khajiit-Ri praises the moons for the guild he is a part of now.

This one just wonders is there any merits to his claims?

Wollust

Oh god khajiit language

Malakisidious

o.O

Voxicity

nice meme

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Ignore the two, Khajiit.
No brains, I guess.

As to answer, you partially solved it yourself: greed.
Your Guild Master is one of the few that actually grasp the idea that helping the other is more beneficial than to serve greed.
Sadly, many lack the brains to come to such an insight.

Hope this helps?

Turelus

First the Khajiit speak was cute at first, now the number of threads it's done in just annoys me because it's annoying to try and read the forums posts and actually follow what the person is trying to talk about.

On topic (or what I think is the topic) if some players want to amass millions of gold and that's their focus why not let them? Maybe while they have millions you have more achievements, maybe while they have millions you became a better PvP player. It's just another way of playing the game and it's something everyone can do if they want to invest the time and effort.

If players think a guild is a scam, they shouldn't join it. If however they get benefits for themselves from it why does it matter what the leaders are doing? I am sure the leaders of my trade guilds are stinking rich and running all sorts of market manipulation, personally I don't care because I am in that guild to sell my wares which I can do fine.

Generally the complaints about guild traders on the forums break down to two basic arguments "I'm too lazy to look around" and "I don't want to play in a guild" both of which are not good enough reasons to change a system most people happily accept and use every day.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

First the Khajiit speak was cute at first, now the number of threads it's done in just annoys me because it's annoying to try and read the forums posts and actually follow what the person is trying to talk about.

On topic (or what I think is the topic) if some players want to amass millions of gold and that's their focus why not let them? Maybe while they have millions you have more achievements, maybe while they have millions you became a better PvP player. It's just another way of playing the game and it's something everyone can do if they want to invest the time and effort.

If players think a guild is a scam, they shouldn't join it. If however they get benefits for themselves from it why does it matter what the leaders are doing? I am sure the leaders of my trade guilds are stinking rich and running all sorts of market manipulation, personally I don't care because I am in that guild to sell my wares which I can do fine.

Generally the complaints about guild traders on the forums break down to two basic arguments "I'm too lazy to look around" and "I don't want to play in a guild" both of which are not good enough reasons to change a system most people happily accept and use every day.

Oh come on, it's not even remotely hard...

Khajiit_Ri

Ah yes, this one pays no attention to the jekosiit, these renrijra will smile even with a dagger driven through their stomachs. But thank you for the confirmation @dtm_samuraib16_ESO

CasNation

The main issue seems to be inflation. There aren't enough ways to take money out of the economy compared to the rate at which it is created. This means that trader prices increase beyond what sales can can support, so guilds have to rely on "donations" from members in order to achieve their bottom line. When one guild starts doing this, everyone has to follow suit or they can't compete, since that first guild has more gold at their disposal. This creates a cycle of increases prices both for traders, and what those traders sell as guilds try to support themselves without driving their members away with high donation rates.

Sorry for the rant, but yeah, we need more gold sinks. I am hoping housing will be the big one.

Gargath

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

This one has noticed many threads pertaining to guilds and trading, this of course comes from a simple Khajiit who might not grasp the delicacies of Tamriel's economy, but still he can't keep him from wondering about the gratification of greedy little horkers cornering the market. Why does revenue seem to be the primary focus of players? Why do players entertain guilds who seem to overcharge for mats? This one does not understand.

If this one thinks the problem is greed, I agree with this one, and I'm sure this one agrees that revenue shown below is ultimate, yes?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

CasNation wrote: »

The main issue seems to be inflation. There aren't enough ways to take money out of the economy compared to the rate at which it is created. This means that trader prices increase beyond what sales can can support, so guilds have to rely on "donations" from members in order to achieve their bottom line. When one guild starts doing this, everyone has to follow suit or they can't compete, since that first guild has more gold at their disposal. This creates a cycle of increases prices both for traders, and what those traders sell as guilds try to support themselves without driving their members away with high donation rates.

Sorry for the rant, but yeah, we need more gold sinks. I am hoping housing will be the big one.

Well, donate to my new character outfit? :P

ItsGlaive

CasNation wrote: »

The main issue seems to be inflation. There aren't enough ways to take money out of the economy compared to the rate at which it is created. This means that trader prices increase beyond what sales can can support, so guilds have to rely on "donations" from members in order to achieve their bottom line. When one guild starts doing this, everyone has to follow suit or they can't compete, since that first guild has more gold at their disposal. This creates a cycle of increases prices both for traders, and what those traders sell as guilds try to support themselves without driving their members away with high donation rates.

Sorry for the rant, but yeah, we need more gold sinks. I am hoping housing will be the big one.

Pretty much this, inflation and the way the guild trader bidding system is set up leads to inevitably higher and higher prices in order to keep that trader. And of course no trader, a severe drop in trades for a trading guild.

Khajiit_Ri

Ah this one understands, so it is a matter of preference then? But what is the end game with coin? Are people so lazy to not simply go out and farm mats? Khajiit-Ri hates to sound like like obnoxious bird in the morning, singing the same tune, but in a few hours with the minimum of 4 players farming mats, we can make a majority of a single player's armor and weapons into legendary gear, kuta seems to be the hardest of mats to find, and most are happy with epic enchants until kuta arrives.

So guilds just want to make money? This one guesses to get BiS? Perhaps Khajiit does not understand because group he runs with is very close knit and in pvp BiS is not as a big deal because of strength in numbers, we might not win every fight but we sure have fun.

Khajiit_Ri

Also isn't most BiS gear BoP anyways, this one is just trying to figure out benefits of being guilds with guild traders when there is an endless amount of mats?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

I do, hell, I was master gatherer at I think it was level 7, lol...
And not to make money from it, but to donate it to my guilds.

Khajiit_Ri

Holy Horker @Gargath that is a lot of coin.

Ritzey01

Its called a free market place, and not socialism. Its supply and demand. If the price it higher than anyone will pay, then it wont sell and the price will go down.

nudel

Gargath wrote: »

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

This one has noticed many threads pertaining to guilds and trading, this of course comes from a simple Khajiit who might not grasp the delicacies of Tamriel's economy, but still he can't keep him from wondering about the gratification of greedy little horkers cornering the market. Why does revenue seem to be the primary focus of players? Why do players entertain guilds who seem to overcharge for mats? This one does not understand.

If this one thinks the problem is greed, I agree with this one, and I'm sure this one agrees that revenue shown below is ultimate, yes?

That's most likely a goldseller... just sayin.

Kelces

Greedy guilds be like...



I don't understand either, how someone could still think, they don't have enough money in a game. Especially if the guild receives vast amounts of "taxes" for their vendor. I know this obviously stems from a massive distrust against other guilds, that create the impression of competition, which could only be compensated by accumulating even more monetary riches - "they might buy our vendor, we can't let that happen!" It is just fear, that is how greed comes about...

Khajiit_Ri

@Turelus perhaps it is annoyance but not all Khajiit must be like Kharjo, Khajiit-Ri will not forsake his culture. Would you rather Khajiit speak Ta'agra?

But in all honesty this one does not wish to limit anyone's ideas of gratification, if they wish to make coin, this one says let them make coin, only trying to wrap my whiskers around the motivation when there are guilds out there who do make the effort to get players to end game.

Khajiit_Ri

@nudel you mean they are selling gold for IRL money!?

If that is the case, whoa and woe, coin is so easy to come by tho, Khajiit-Ri alone can make 20k in less than 20 minutes, probably not as quickly as certain guilds but still. *cat mind blown*

CasNation

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

Ah this one understands, so it is a matter of preference then? But what is the end game with coin? Are people so lazy to not simply go out and farm mats? Khajiit-Ri hates to sound like like obnoxious bird in the morning, singing the same tune, but in a few hours with the minimum of 4 players farming mats, we can make a majority of a single player's armor and weapons into legendary gear, kuta seems to be the hardest of mats to find, and most are happy with epic enchants until kuta arrives.

So guilds just want to make money? This one guesses to get BiS? Perhaps Khajiit does not understand because group he runs with is very close knit and in pvp BiS is not as a big deal because of strength in numbers, we might not win every fight but we sure have fun.

It's a little more complicated than just "being lazy." What if I want to try for a world first run of a new trial? What if I only have an hour a night to play, and don't want to spend it doing writs on 8 characters just to fully upgrade ONE characters gear? What if all of a sudden the veteran system was removed, and I suddenly have 5 characters that need end-game ready gear?

It used to be reasonable in this game to farm enough mats for a full set of gear very quickly, but with the increase in resource investment, the lowering of drops rates on tempers, and the removal of soft caps allowing for relatively unlimited increases to damage, it has become a much larger time investment to jeep multiple characters outfitted. Couple that with the fairly quick release cadence of DLC, and people are ALWAYS looking for materials and pieces for new gear. If they tried to farm everything themselves, they would never have enough to keep up. I stockpiled tempering alloy for 2 years (not actively buying/trading, just whatever came my way) and I still didn't have enough to fully upgrade my tank's gear.

This demand drives the market for these commodities, and the ever-evolving nature of the game makes it so a set that was good 3 months ago is garbage now (see Aether), or a set that was garbage is now excellent (see Infallible Aether). And yes, I know both of those are BoP. Just making a point.

Guilds make money off of these things because people feel they need them. And to play the way they want, people DO need them.

Okay, I swear I am done this time.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

@nudel you mean they are selling gold for IRL money!?

If that is the case, whoa and woe, coin is so easy to come by tho, Khajiit-Ri alone can make 20k in less than 20 minutes, probably not as quickly as certain guilds but still. *cat mind blown*

Oh, please enlighten this Khajiit?

Khajiit_Ri

@CasNation thank you for the the thoughtful reply. Khajiit-Ri understands a little better now. This one only has one main, with 4 alts waiting in the shadows.

Khajiit_Ri

@dtm_samuraib16_ESO ok friend, This one has no problems telling you, but it does require certain passives from thieves guild and ledgermain skill lines.

Thieves guild: haggling (I believe gives you 10 percent increase in gold for the goods you fence), Veil of Shadows reduces NPC detection range, honestly this whole line skill tree is great, the better I got a stealing the less skill points I put into such as "swiftly forgotten,"
but Clemency and Timely escape are useful if you should get caught.

The ledgermain also has many useful passives, again these are to flavor, And if you have the skill points, I would maxout improved hiding, lightfingers, trafficker, and locksmith (you might be a badass thief but locksmith helps to quicken the pace) and time is of course of the essence.

Lastly invest 10 champion points into the shadow skill line to unlock fortune seeker.

There are two places in particular that make really good runs, Riften is great because if you hit a relatively empty instance or a very slow time of the day you can steal for hours without any stopping, and if you time it by the time you make the loop back around the first box you open should be respawning. Inbetween searching out lockboxes you should be pick pocketing relative easy targets (not the lvl of difficulty to pick pocket, just NPCs that aren't surrounded by a ton of other NPCs, time again, is of the essence). It easy to make at the very minimum 10k in a little over 10 minutes, more if RNG blesses you. This one is AD so with fortune seeker unlocked and being in Riften I get about 100 coin for each lockbox I open, if I open 10 lock boxes that's 1000 coin, just for opening.

Another good place is Windhelm again same concept, inbetween chests, pickpocket easy targets, wash and repeat, you can either figure out the lockbox spawns your self or search the Internet for lockbox spawn points.

Depending on how busy Riften or Windhelm is, I bounce back and forth between towns. And before anyone QQ about me openly discussing this method, there are already many online sources that discuss this method, it's not new. Hopefully this helps you @dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Khajiit_Ri

realistically is probably about 20k in 20-30 minutes, but it is limited to 140 items. I also have a gear with all well-fitted traits and rapid maneuver slotted.

bryanhaas

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

This one has noticed many threads pertaining to guilds and trading, this of course comes from a simple Khajiit who might not grasp the delicacies of Tamriel's economy, but still he can't keep him from wondering about the gratification of greedy little horkers cornering the market. Why does revenue seem to be the primary focus of players? Why do players entertain guilds who seem to overcharge for mats? This one does not understand.

Khajiit-Ri has boasted about guild he is part of, his guild master is fun and doesn't seem to carry a chip on shoulder that many other guilds have. But he says our primary goal as a guild is to help each other and influence guilds to do the same. One day while waking along the shores of Khenarthi's Roost, he says to this one, "Most guilds are a scam, a number of them would make Ya'Tirrje blush." He proceeded to tell me about our guilds history and our main objective which is to completely transform the economy. This one wonders how much merit is there to his claims? He says the biggest reason guilds are scams is because they are nothing but hydra with dollar signs in their eyes. He says certain guilds are subsidiaries of larger guilds.

But more importantly he says if our guild continues to work together there's nothing we can't achieve. Guild master says all mats are free, and when we work together with the proper allocation of points obtaining the mats become a breeze, by helping one the group becomes stronger. He does have a strict guidelines, some even seem like complete lunacy, but before coming to this guild, this one was part of some well-known very rich guilds that require fees, and so forth, but Khajiit-Ri praises the moons for the guild he is a part of now.

This one just wonders is there any merits to his claims?

Without buyers sellers must lower their price, it is not the guilds setting the price but the buyers.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

@nudel you mean they are selling gold for IRL money!?

If that is the case, whoa and woe, coin is so easy to come by tho, Khajiit-Ri alone can make 20k in less than 20 minutes, probably not as quickly as certain guilds but still. *cat mind blown*

Oh, please enlighten this Khajiit?

Khajiit_Ri wrote: »

@dtm_samuraib16_ESO ok friend, This one has no problems telling you, but it does require certain passives from thieves guild and ledgermain skill lines.

Thieves guild: haggling (I believe gives you 10 percent increase in gold for the goods you fence), Veil of Shadows reduces NPC detection range, honestly this whole line skill tree is great, the better I got a stealing the less skill points I put into such as "swiftly forgotten,"
but Clemency and Timely escape are useful if you should get caught.

The ledgermain also has many useful passives, again these are to flavor, And if you have the skill points, I would maxout improved hiding, lightfingers, trafficker, and locksmith (you might be a badass thief but locksmith helps to quicken the pace) and time is of course of the essence.

Lastly invest 10 champion points into the shadow skill line to unlock fortune seeker.

There are two places in particular that make really good runs, Riften is great because if you hit a relatively empty instance or a very slow time of the day you can steal for hours without any stopping, and if you time it by the time you make the loop back around the first box you open should be respawning. Inbetween searching out lockboxes you should be pick pocketing relative easy targets (not the lvl of difficulty to pick pocket, just NPCs that aren't surrounded by a ton of other NPCs, time again, is of the essence). It easy to make at the very minimum 10k in a little over 10 minutes, more if RNG blesses you. This one is AD so with fortune seeker unlocked and being in Riften I get about 100 coin for each lockbox I open, if I open 10 lock boxes that's 1000 coin, just for opening.

Another good place is Windhelm again same concept, inbetween chests, pickpocket easy targets, wash and repeat, you can either figure out the lockbox spawns your self or search the Internet for lockbox spawn points.

Depending on how busy Riften or Windhelm is, I bounce back and forth between towns. And before anyone QQ about me openly discussing this method, there are already many online sources that discuss this method, it's not new. Hopefully this helps you @dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Ah, yes, I too have sticky pawns.
Odd, I am no thief, I am VERY curious, being Khajiit, but NOT A THIEF.
And no matter how many times i wash my paws, they STAY sticky.
Nothing helps.
But the guards do not take this in account, and often chase this Khajiit away.
I do not really like them guards, at all.

Do you happen to know a cure for sticky pawns?
It's like they are glue.
VERY annoying.

On another note, when I get into areas, they already seem to be overrun by other Khajiit, as boxes and the lot are always empty.
Odd, really!
I can't see a single Khajiit, anywhere.

failkiwib16_ESO

If my daily income was 20k I would cry so much that Tamriel would drown in my tears. I spend 200k a week on potions, then comes the bills of repair kits, gear upgrades, skill respecs for multiple chars, helping out my guildies....

I am addicted to trading guilds, and I can not survive in this game without them - not unless I abandon my guildmastership, all group play and only do solo content.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

But even then, one could not afford (at least, not me), compete with the prices as they are currently.

Uriel_Nocturne

Like most of my fellow Dunmer; if given the option to choose between egalitarianism and wealth, I choose wealth.

That was simple.

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