I'm not feeling the Champion level.

NewBlacksmurf

Waffennacht wrote: »

So is the problem cosmetic or is that there are too many levels? Or is it that some people are far stronger than you?

@Waffennacht

Its further than cosmetic display of CP. I get the elitism issues but thats far from the bigger concerns that impact everyone.

1-It didn't remove VR which it should have
2-People arent far stronger than anyone else, they just have a character sheet that by selecting certain passives, portrays more power, or viability, more hit points, resistances, etc. Basically its a difficulty slider so to speak pre-DB
3- The problem is CP and VR dont mix and as experienced cannot mix without causing or leading to other issues. I mean, heck, they couldn't even raise the CP cap and also couldn't figure out how to align the current CP cap with the VR system. CP 160....when VR16 +CP's already existed don't all of a sudden equal a similar power scale.
4-Scaling is waaaaay off now
5-PvP....so what the heck is a nonCP campaign if you can wear CP gear
6-what point is there to have CPs pre50 if they dont display....is not a pre-50 impacted the same as post 49? Why display it on one and not the other.....this is poorly done

-displaying CP means absolutely nothing because there is no way of knowing how the CP and who progressed and in what ways. Seriously on xbox one for months, ppl just went to spots and ran in circles for weeks on end until they reached 600-800 CPs and then later we got a cap so more ppl just rand in circles with the catch up to reach 501. That is no skill

-Now ZOS had the idea to use that as some type of progression... problem
-Now for those who actually played the content and didn't grind, they have this CP thing that actually means nothing to others cause we dont know how their points are applied.
-In the two situations above, neither is better or worse but when ZOS decided to use CP progression as a measurement, it becomes communicated or assumed that one person who has more CP is better than the other but CP doesn't make anyone better it just offers passives that do whatever based on how its used.

Arato

The one thing I'll agree on is making CP's not publicly visible. Just at 50 Give people a Star or something indicating that they're over the level cap.

SanSan

How about adding levels like a poster above said and add like a special symbol next to their name of something upon hitting 51

Waffennacht

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

So is the problem cosmetic or is that there are too many levels? Or is it that some people are far stronger than you?

@Waffennacht

Its further than cosmetic display of CP. I get the elitism issues but thats far from the bigger concerns that impact everyone.

1-It didn't remove VR which it should have
2-People arent far stronger than anyone else, they just have a character sheet that by selecting certain passives, portrays more power, or viability, more hit points, resistances, etc. Basically its a difficulty slider so to speak pre-DB
3- The problem is CP and VR dont mix and as experienced cannot mix without causing or leading to other issues. I mean, heck, they couldn't even raise the CP cap and also couldn't figure out how to align the current CP cap with the VR system. CP 160....when VR16 +CP's already existed don't all of a sudden equal a similar power scale.
4-Scaling is waaaaay off now
5-PvP....so what the heck is a nonCP campaign if you can wear CP gear
6-what point is there to have CPs pre50 if they dont display....is not a pre-50 impacted the same as post 49? Why display it on one and not the other.....this is poorly done

-displaying CP means absolutely nothing because there is no way of knowing how the CP and who progressed and in what ways. Seriously on xbox one for months, ppl just went to spots and ran in circles for weeks on end until they reached 600-800 CPs and then later we got a cap so more ppl just rand in circles with the catch up to reach 501. That is no skill

-Now ZOS had the idea to use that as some type of progression... problem
-Now for those who actually played the content and didn't grind, they have this CP thing that actually means nothing to others cause we dont know how their points are applied.
-In the two situations above, neither is better or worse but when ZOS decided to use CP progression as a measurement, it becomes communicated or assumed that one person who has more CP is better than the other but CP doesn't make anyone better it just offers passives that do whatever based on how its used.

You are coming at this from a PC perspective. On console we have never had any ability to guage another player that you have mentioned. Every problem you listed is a current problem on console.

One v16 is not (maybe not even close in some cases) the same as another v16. Console, we never knew whom we were joining and this CP number will actually give us more information than before.

I do understand your perspective and issues, I have no comments to give as I'm xbox, sorry.

jeevin

I've lost the motivation to play my ex-Vet lvl toons. I had a Vr16 and a Vr7 along with six other toons of various levels below 50. After the conversion I ended up with 288CP but I don't really want to be the guy running with a "paltry" 288Cp lol

Waffennacht

jeevin wrote: »

I've lost the motivation to play my ex-Vet lvl toons. I had a Vr16 and a Vr7 along with six other toons of various levels below 50. After the conversion I ended up with 288CP but I don't really want to be the guy running with a "paltry" 288Cp lol

Lol... im looking forward to being the guy with over 500...

Arato

Vet levels come so much faster than VR's, so it's not so bad. Only problem is elitism within PuG Groups kicking people for not being at 501 and such.

NewBlacksmurf

Waffennacht wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

So is the problem cosmetic or is that there are too many levels? Or is it that some people are far stronger than you?

@Waffennacht

Its further than cosmetic display of CP. I get the elitism issues but thats far from the bigger concerns that impact everyone.

1-It didn't remove VR which it should have
2-People arent far stronger than anyone else, they just have a character sheet that by selecting certain passives, portrays more power, or viability, more hit points, resistances, etc. Basically its a difficulty slider so to speak pre-DB
3- The problem is CP and VR dont mix and as experienced cannot mix without causing or leading to other issues. I mean, heck, they couldn't even raise the CP cap and also couldn't figure out how to align the current CP cap with the VR system. CP 160....when VR16 +CP's already existed don't all of a sudden equal a similar power scale.
4-Scaling is waaaaay off now
5-PvP....so what the heck is a nonCP campaign if you can wear CP gear
6-what point is there to have CPs pre50 if they dont display....is not a pre-50 impacted the same as post 49? Why display it on one and not the other.....this is poorly done

-displaying CP means absolutely nothing because there is no way of knowing how the CP and who progressed and in what ways. Seriously on xbox one for months, ppl just went to spots and ran in circles for weeks on end until they reached 600-800 CPs and then later we got a cap so more ppl just rand in circles with the catch up to reach 501. That is no skill

-Now ZOS had the idea to use that as some type of progression... problem
-Now for those who actually played the content and didn't grind, they have this CP thing that actually means nothing to others cause we dont know how their points are applied.
-In the two situations above, neither is better or worse but when ZOS decided to use CP progression as a measurement, it becomes communicated or assumed that one person who has more CP is better than the other but CP doesn't make anyone better it just offers passives that do whatever based on how its used.

You are coming at this from a PC perspective. On console we have never had any ability to guage another player that you have mentioned. Every problem you listed is a current problem on console.

One v16 is not (maybe not even close in some cases) the same as another v16. Console, we never knew whom we were joining and this CP number will actually give us more information than before.

I do understand your perspective and issues, I have no comments to give as I'm xbox, sorry.

@Waffennacht

I'm on Xbox One too

I have PC access but I dont play on PC other than PTS and from time to time the first week of a release of DLC.

I have to passionately disagree that seeing CP is what "we" need.
You don't need to gauge another player based on anything other than their actual character level and CP does not give you any better info than what exist son Xbox now.

See thats the whole issue, Players thinking that a CP indicator is this or that. The mindset that leads to the comments others are sharing which is described as "elitism" when that mindset attempts to set other apart based on that indicator.

The value comes in knowing how to adjust and work with others and the whole beauty of the original game design is just that. This change which has come in a manner that moves ESO away from being unique and takes it towards any ol' other game.

Waffennacht

"I have to passionately disagree that seeing CP is what "we" need."

Um just fyi, I never endorsed the motion I haven't said one way or the other.

Personally I don't have an opinion yet as I have yet to experience it. Just had a few questions and comments.

Though I hope to have an easier time getting into PUGs

waterfairy

Gidorick wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I'm welcoming this with open arms as I hate grinding and the XP needed to get to VR16 naturally would mean another years worth of play for me.

So a solution is to just give players the levels? I just disagree with that @Vigarr . I think the problems many had with Vet Ranks was because there wasn't content there to support the leveling. Sure we had Silver and Gold but that was just a redundancy of content.

With DLCs and such players could have fun playing new, exciting content for that second year's worth of play.

So what are you going to do now that you've reached max level? PVP?

I have all 8 slots used, I won't stop playing, I just won't have to worry about grinding with each 1 of those slots which is what the reason for removing VR is all about...not really the topic you're referring to though.

It's funny as a I've considered trying PvP again after the update but I'm still only CP 220 so I'm half as powerful as those who would kick my noob ass back to PvE

NewBlacksmurf

Waffennacht wrote: »

"I have to passionately disagree that seeing CP is what "we" need."

Um just fyi, I never endorsed the motion I haven't said one way or the other.

Personally I don't have an opinion yet as I have yet to experience it. Just had a few questions and comments.

Though I hope to have an easier time getting into PUGs

@Waffennacht
Oh sorry, I took your comment as a disagreement to my comment.

Getting into PUGs.....I have the opinion that the elitism being discussed is more prevalent on consoles than PC but being that the group finder was messed up with DB, who knows what will happen for us on Xbox one.

Gidorick

Arato wrote: »

Vet levels come so much faster than VR's, so it's not so bad. Only problem is elitism within PuG Groups kicking people for not being at 501 and such.

I think this was the issue most people had with Vet ranks. Leveling went from climbing stairs to climbing cliffs.

Vigarr wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I'm welcoming this with open arms as I hate grinding and the XP needed to get to VR16 naturally would mean another years worth of play for me.

So a solution is to just give players the levels? I just disagree with that @Vigarr . I think the problems many had with Vet Ranks was because there wasn't content there to support the leveling. Sure we had Silver and Gold but that was just a redundancy of content.

With DLCs and such players could have fun playing new, exciting content for that second year's worth of play.

So what are you going to do now that you've reached max level? PVP?

I have all 8 slots used, I won't stop playing, I just won't have to worry about grinding with each 1 of those slots which is what the reason for removing VR is all about...not really the topic you're referring to though.

It's funny as a I've considered trying PvP again after the update but I'm still only CP 220 so I'm half as powerful as those who would kick my noob ass back to PvE

So you're going to grind out those CPs... That's funny because it's still grinding, which is what you didn't care for. You and I are on the same scale @Vigarr , just on opposite ends.

waterfairy

Gidorick wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Vet levels come so much faster than VR's, so it's not so bad. Only problem is elitism within PuG Groups kicking people for not being at 501 and such.

I think this was the issue most people had with Vet ranks. Leveling went from

Vigarr wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I'm welcoming this with open arms as I hate grinding and the XP needed to get to VR16 naturally would mean another years worth of play for me.

So a solution is to just give players the levels? I just disagree with that @Vigarr . I think the problems many had with Vet Ranks was because there wasn't content there to support the leveling. Sure we had Silver and Gold but that was just a redundancy of content.

With DLCs and such players could have fun playing new, exciting content for that second year's worth of play.

So what are you going to do now that you've reached max level? PVP?

I have all 8 slots used, I won't stop playing, I just won't have to worry about grinding with each 1 of those slots which is what the reason for removing VR is all about...not really the topic you're referring to though.

It's funny as a I've considered trying PvP again after the update but I'm still only CP 220 so I'm half as powerful as those who would kick my noob ass back to PvE

So you're going to grind out those CPs... That's funny because it's still grinding, which is what you didn't care for. You and I are on the same scale @Arato, just on opposite ends.

Grind for what? I can equip max gear after the update, any CP I earn from now on is like a bonus.

Gothlander

the new cp thing seeing a bunch of numbers on target name plate is confusing. I know that 501 cp is max so thats really the only way I can tell if a lvl 50 player is wearing the top gear in game. Doing the gear 1-50 and then after 50 making it 1-16 is stupid. Just make it 1-66.

Gothlander

bedlom wrote: »

I'm not feeling it either. Once again they are not listening to PTS testers at all.
First the @name nonsense and now this! Someone else (preferably someone who knows what they are doing with a TES title) needs to be in charge.
The current devs have no idea how to execute a good idea.
I kinda miss the old team now : (

Thats why I never test games or give feedback. You're just wasting your time typing it all out.

Gidorick

Gothlander wrote: »

Thats why I never test games or give feedback. You're just wasting your time typing it all out.

I agree with this @Gothlander , the PTS isn't REALLY a test... it seems to be more of a demo/marketing tool

Gidorick

Vigarr wrote: »

Grind for what? I can equip max gear after the update, any CP I earn from now on is like a bonus.

To get to CP 501, right? You were saying you'd get owned by those with max CP because you only have 220. Did I misunderstand @Vigarr

phobossion

I think they've just tried too hard to avoid any resemblance to the loathed VR system. It would be enough to convert VR into CP in the background (i.e. convert the system to CP as it is now but still show a VR) or just replace CP 0-160 with level 50-66. Instead, they went full on berserk and now people are 241, 492, 164, 76 or 501

My guess would be they're gonna consolidate it somehow at one point. Right now it just looks plain ridiculous and they have to be aware of that...

Arato

Gidorick wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Vet levels come so much faster than VR's, so it's not so bad. Only problem is elitism within PuG Groups kicking people for not being at 501 and such.

I think this was the issue most people had with Vet ranks. Leveling went from climbing stairs to climbing cliffs.

Vigarr wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I'm welcoming this with open arms as I hate grinding and the XP needed to get to VR16 naturally would mean another years worth of play for me.

So a solution is to just give players the levels? I just disagree with that @Vigarr . I think the problems many had with Vet Ranks was because there wasn't content there to support the leveling. Sure we had Silver and Gold but that was just a redundancy of content.

With DLCs and such players could have fun playing new, exciting content for that second year's worth of play.

So what are you going to do now that you've reached max level? PVP?

I have all 8 slots used, I won't stop playing, I just won't have to worry about grinding with each 1 of those slots which is what the reason for removing VR is all about...not really the topic you're referring to though.

It's funny as a I've considered trying PvP again after the update but I'm still only CP 220 so I'm half as powerful as those who would kick my noob ass back to PvE

So you're going to grind out those CPs... That's funny because it's still grinding, which is what you didn't care for. You and I are on the same scale @Vigarr , just on opposite ends.

That was one issue the other issue was alts. getting to level 50 wasn't too bad but slogging through VRx on multiple characters just wasn't fun, and it was a gate to be able to do group content. I mean that's a LOT of solo slogging to be able to join a group to play an MMO.

Rohamad_Ali

Maybe just put Level 50 and 1 Star for each 100 Cp ?

So max would be a 5 Star level 50 ?

I don't know but I'm sick of VR levels ...

pinkempyreal

I've been playing off and on since beta and never reached V16. That being said I think I did prefer the vet system plus champion points as secondary. When I saw other characters who were V16 I "looked up" to them. It's a long process to get there and they earned it.
My max veteran level was at 10. But with all my rerolls I am more than half the way to max 501 CP. I don't know if I will be able to feel a sense of accomplishment leveling new characters anymore. I've always managed to level to 50 prior to the last Faction map.
It's not the end of the world for me... There are plenty of other things I can complete to feel accomplished. But that's my opinion anyway.

DaveMoeDee

bedlom wrote: »

I'm not feeling it either. Once again they are not listening to PTS testers at all.
First the @name nonsense and now this! Someone else (preferably someone who knows what they are doing with a TES title) needs to be in charge.
The current devs have no idea how to execute a good idea.
I kinda miss the old team now : (

The @name "nonsense" is an improvement.

Gothlander

Gidorick wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Thats why I never test games or give feedback. You're just wasting your time typing it all out.

I agree with this @Gothlander , the PTS isn't REALLY a test... it seems to be more of a demo/marketing tool

For sure. Also, testing to me is like opening your Christmas presents before Christmas lol. I rather be surprised by things even though I do keep updated on stuff.

AnnieBeGood

I have a baby stam dk. She was vet 1 before the update. I have a lot of cp and 3 or 4 vet 16's.

So baby Alessia can wear vet160 armour now. BUT her skills are not maxed out..... if I decide to use another weapon it will be at baby level. She is no more a vet 16 than my cat is. Alessia is NOT a vet 160 no matter what label you put on her.

I knew this would happen. And I don't like it.

Gidorick

AnnieBeGood wrote: »

I have a baby stam dk. She was vet 1 before the update. I have a lot of cp and 3 or 4 vet 16's.

So baby Alessia can wear vet160 armour now. BUT her skills are not maxed out..... if I decide to use another weapon it will be at baby level. She is no more a vet 16 than my cat is. Alessia is NOT a vet 160 no matter what label you put on her.

I knew this would happen. And I don't like it.

There will be a lot of players who don't understand this.

nimander99

I think, in the long run, this will play out to be a pretty smart move and healthy for the game...

Unless of course people thought we wouldn't be getting new tiers of gear above VR16/CP160...

You make a valid point @Gidorick but I think we will all adjust. I'm not a huge fan of people being able to see each other's CP's, I think that was a mistake.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

So is the problem cosmetic or is that there are too many levels? Or is it that some people are far stronger than you?

@Waffennacht

Its further than cosmetic display of CP. I get the elitism issues but thats far from the bigger concerns that impact everyone.

1-It didn't remove VR which it should have
2-People arent far stronger than anyone else, they just have a character sheet that by selecting certain passives, portrays more power, or viability, more hit points, resistances, etc. Basically its a difficulty slider so to speak pre-DB
3- The problem is CP and VR dont mix and as experienced cannot mix without causing or leading to other issues. I mean, heck, they couldn't even raise the CP cap and also couldn't figure out how to align the current CP cap with the VR system. CP 160....when VR16 +CP's already existed don't all of a sudden equal a similar power scale.
4-Scaling is waaaaay off now
5-PvP....so what the heck is a nonCP campaign if you can wear CP gear
6-what point is there to have CPs pre50 if they dont display....is not a pre-50 impacted the same as post 49? Why display it on one and not the other.....this is poorly done

-displaying CP means absolutely nothing because there is no way of knowing how the CP and who progressed and in what ways. Seriously on xbox one for months, ppl just went to spots and ran in circles for weeks on end until they reached 600-800 CPs and then later we got a cap so more ppl just rand in circles with the catch up to reach 501. That is no skill

-Now ZOS had the idea to use that as some type of progression... problem
-Now for those who actually played the content and didn't grind, they have this CP thing that actually means nothing to others cause we dont know how their points are applied.
-In the two situations above, neither is better or worse but when ZOS decided to use CP progression as a measurement, it becomes communicated or assumed that one person who has more CP is better than the other but CP doesn't make anyone better it just offers passives that do whatever based on how its used.

You are coming at this from a PC perspective. On console we have never had any ability to guage another player that you have mentioned. Every problem you listed is a current problem on console.

One v16 is not (maybe not even close in some cases) the same as another v16. Console, we never knew whom we were joining and this CP number will actually give us more information than before.

I do understand your perspective and issues, I have no comments to give as I'm xbox, sorry.

This is my feeling on it as well. Over all nothing really is changing. Your over all 'level' is being relabeled and that it is.

It tells no more or less then the old system. Basically if you like or dont like it then to me it is just a matter a perception and personal preferance. Maybe you like levels faster, or felt longer levels were better. But over all the system has not changed. And is no more or less useful.

jeevin

nimander99 wrote: »

I think, in the long run, this will play out to be a pretty smart move and healthy for the game...

Unless of course people thought we wouldn't be getting new tiers of gear above VR16/CP160...

You make a valid point @Gidorick but I think we will all adjust. I'm not a huge fan of people being able to see each other's CP's, I think that was a mistake.

I'm not so sure this move is healthy for the game. For many players, especially those who came late to the party, 501cp seems insurmountable. Those who have no cp even 160cp to craft the current max gear is still daunting.

For my current play style, I have 288cp but I mainly play my low level alts doing dungeons and dolmens. When I do play my Vet toons it's usually to try for motif pages or for crafting so I'm lucky to gain 2 or 3 cp a week. Until my alts get to 50 it's gonna be a long time until I get close to the current 501cp cap. By then the cap will most likely will be 999cp.

Lonestryder

The OP's post resonates with me as well, but perhaps for different reasons.

I'm typically pretty quiet in the game and on the forums (those Vanguard days are a distant memory), but the recent changes warrant a response and the OP inspired me a bit.

I've basically grown up on the Elder Scrolls games and in their own way they have shaped how I "play" and think about games in general, especially RPGs - online or otherwise. And so it is that over they years I have noticed a gradual, but increasingly pervasive trend in online MMOs. One that is away from immersion and role playing and toward competitiveness, maximum performance and the overall need to always be "playing" at optimal efficiency.

Don't get me wrong: I have no issue with theory crafting and competing against other players, but for me, in ESO, I rejected all that for a more measured experience. I've been tooling around Tamriel since the beginning without much thought to optimizing my efficiency. Oh, I'll change out skills and connect the dots on what synergises best with gear, potions, food and what not, but it was more of an organic process than one where I sat down for hours studying a spreadsheet.

With the new changes of showing, highlighting and in many ways relying on this oddly high CP number, I found myself dragged out of my semi-ignorant bliss, staring at what appears to be the bones of a system that might be better off putting its skin back on. I'm not opposed to having this information available to me through menu items, but I now find myself strangely aware of the system behind what is really happening, and honestly it is a distraction.

And somehow, through all of this and against conventional wisdom, I actually find myself not wanting to play my alts at all.

Sorry, I don't have any specific suggestions on how to make it better, but did want to share how this has affected me. Surely there must be a more elegant solution.

jeevin

Lonestryder wrote: »

The OP's post resonates with me as well, but perhaps for different reasons.

I'm typically pretty quiet in the game and on the forums (those Vanguard days are a distant memory), but the recent changes warrant a response and the OP inspired me a bit.

I've basically grown up on the Elder Scrolls games and in their own way they have shaped how I "play" and think about games in general, especially RPGs - online or otherwise. And so it is that over they years I have noticed a gradual, but increasingly pervasive trend in online MMOs. One that is away from immersion and role playing and toward competitiveness, maximum performance and the overall need to always be "playing" at optimal efficiency.

Don't get me wrong: I have no issue with theory crafting and competing against other players, but for me, in ESO, I rejected all that for a more measured experience. I've been tooling around Tamriel since the beginning without much thought to optimizing my efficiency. Oh, I'll change out skills and connect the dots on what synergises best with gear, potions, food and what not, but it was more of an organic process than one where I sat down for hours studying a spreadsheet.

With the new changes of showing, highlighting and in many ways relying on this oddly high CP number, I found myself dragged out of my semi-ignorant bliss, staring at what appears to be the bones of a system that might be better off putting its skin back on. I'm not opposed to having this information available to me through menu items, but I now find myself strangely aware of the system behind what is really happening, and honestly it is a distraction.

And somehow, through all of this and against conventional wisdom, I actually find myself not wanting to play my alts at all.

Sorry, I don't have any specific suggestions on how to make it better, but did want to share how this has affected me. Surely there must be a more elegant solution.

Perhaps if Cp were gained at any level you may be more inclined to play alts?