Kena's take on Imperial City PvP objectives -- A GUIDE FOR ZOS -- with pitchurs! :3

KenaPKK

This thread is a repost from Alliance War placed here to reach a greater audience. This discussion is regarding PvP activities in the PvP DLC. Link to the original post here. Thanks for reading.



Hi all. For those of you who don't know me, I go by Kena. Long story short, I love the Imperial City DLC and want to see it become a completed PvP expansion. I've spent a ton of time PvPing there and believe I have a well-formed opinion on its development. Following are my thoughts on the direction that ZOS should take it.

"All your tel var are belong to me!" - Kena 2015



Primary Goals:

• foster fast paced, small scale PvP
• create varied and interesting fights
• minimize downtime between PvP engagements
• contribute to the Cyrodiil Alliance War without overshadowing Cyrodiil objectives or demanding attention from Cyrodiil groups aiming to win the campaign
• discourage accumulation of large groups
• discourage night capping

Methods to Achieve Goals:

• place many objectives relatively close to each other
  • high number of objectives makes it difficult for a night cap crew to hold many objectives against a small resistance moving elsewhere in the DLC unless the night cap crew splits up, at which point they become vulnerable to getting rekt
  • close proximity of objectives gives players a choice of multiple logical next targets to move on to following battles or objective captures, minimizing PvE time running between objectives and fights
• place objectives outside of the usual lanes of travel
  • locate fights in interesting locales that players may not visit often
  • make groups go slightly out of their way to reach nearby objectives
• implement a significantly shorter campaign point score evaluation period than is present in Cyrodiil open world; decrease points awarded per objective per evaluation period to compensate
  • incentivizes hitting the objective, capturing it, and moving on to assault other objectives instead of passively defending for points
  • 20 minutes? 10 minutes? Not sure where this should fall to encourage fighting over objectives without overworking the servers
  • avoids encouraging groups to stick to resources
  • prevents capturing IC objectives from becoming as pointless as capturing resources
  • must be careful not to make IC objectives more valuable than Cyrodiil objectives; keep them less valuable so that large Cyrodiil groups don't have much of a reason to come to IC
• scaling tel var farm bonus for every objective that your faction owns in IC + valuable items at the tel var vendor
  • clearing mobs becomes valuable as opposed to running through them with Rapids on
  • monetary incentive for players who don't care about winning the campaign scales with number of objectives owned, giving them a reason to fight over them
  • Hakeijo, gold upgrade mats, and PvP consumables for sale at tel var vendor at prices comparable but slightly higher than general guild store market price
• PvP objective flags -- not boss objectives -- CAN NOT GIVE AP TICKS
  • This won't be a popular point because nuuuu y u take mah ticks, but if these objectives give ticks, every AP farming zerg in Cyrodiil will spend some time trying to farm these. That is the last thing we need in IC.
  • Leave the ticks to boss fights that have respawn timers. This will create inconsistency that will deter the AP farm zergs.

District Objectives:

• 2+ objectives per district
  • zergs will accumulate on flag if there is only one objective per district
  • more objectives = more incentive to spread out
• districts may have different numbers of objectives from each other
  • creates variety between the districts for unique and interesting engagements tailored to their terrain
• players may climb sewer base ladders into districts only if they own at least half of that district's objectives
  • in order to reach an unowned district, requires players to venture into the sewers at least as far as the district ladders near their sewer base
  • in order to reach an unowned district opposite their side of the ring, requires players to either venture farther through the sewers or to climb one of the nearer district ladders and then run district to district around the ring
  • consistent with the lore of infiltrating the Imperial City via the sewers -- if you don't have a foothold in the district, you have to work your way there
• players may respawn in the district in which they die if they own at least half of that district's objectives
  • players can fight over respawn rights without having to own every objective in the district, allowing fights to go back and forth
  • encourages running from objective to objective to attack and defend instead of sitting on one to defend
  • if the district has an odd number of objectives, then you round up
• players have a respawn timer like with forward camps
  • can't have zombie hordes poring off the flags
• scale the roaming district bosses to fight groups of 12-16 or more, and award the members of the killing faction within that district an offensive tick that scales off of enemy deaths to the boss and to allies in that district during the fight
  • gives players an AP reward for engaging in drawn out PvP combat with these big bosses spewing AoE mechanics all over the place
  • will make for some crazy fights, hilarious wipes, and juicy ticks

Sewer Objectives:

• no respawning at sewer objectives
• all other characteristics are the same as District objectives
• each objective in the dead end areas just outside of center gives a buff where you earn 1 AP for every 5 tel var that you collect for each of these objectives that your faction owns
  • venturing into a dead end imposes risk on the group attacking the objective
  • also leaves defenders with little chance of escape should they lose
  • PvPers will scramble to control these. Some will look to grind. Others will look to kill players and earn AP for the tel var they take. Regardless, they will definitely look to attack and defend these objectives.
  • Notice that there are 4 on my map below. Yes, one objective will always have 2 of them. Envy breeds conflict and discourages the factions from just leaving each other with 1 special objective each.
  • the fact that 2 of these objectives are on the EP wing of the sewers is irrelevant because proximity to the sewer bases has little bearing on combat advantage, if any
  • the objective marked as "PvE objective" is the zombie group fight
• scale world bosses to fight groups of 3-6, and award members of the killing faction who were in immediate combat with the boss a Minor Expedition buff for 5 minutes as well as an offensive tick for enemy deaths in the fight
  • the bosses should be somewhat dangerous in case enemy players come into the room during the fight, or choose to attack the group attempting the boss
  • the Minor Expedition buff will be quick to pick up for speedy travel around the sewers when combined with Rapids
• scale the travelling flag bosses to fight groups of 10-12, and award members of the killing faction who were in immediate combat with the boss an offensive tick for enemy deaths in the fight as well as a 15 minute Minor Expedition buff
  • Please buff these bosses....I can solo them all, and I know several other people who can as well. These need to be real threats that you either spend time killing or sneak past.
  • Minor Expedition provided for movement around the sewers
  • moving source of a tick = moving combat objective to look for fights over
• Molag Bal -- the big man himself -- NO TICK -- instead, Mr. Bal calls off his daedric army such that no mobs or bosses within IC aggro against members of the killing faction for 15 minutes unless attacked first
  • yellow aura around mobs, like on those neutral zombies in Wayrest or ICP
  • players would be able to flow through IC without worrying about mobs aggroing on them, a huge quality of life buff to movement
  • easier movement --> easier capture of objective flags
  • escaping from players would also be made interesting, as you could run past mobs while the mobs aggro on them
  • with the buff having a duration longer than Molag Bal's respawn rate, multiple factions can have the buff simultaneously
  • if Molag Bal gives an AP tick, groups will just gravitate toward center and end up zerging down there unintentionally because center is where the greatest possible AP gains would be
  • also shouldn't be an overall AP buff because large AP farming zerg groups will just camp center, killing Molag Bal and farming any enemy players who try to pass through or fight back

Ok I lied -- I only have one pitchur
Blue star: PvP objective flag (except for Molag Bal. He gets to be a blue star too, woops!)
Blue star with circle: PvP objective flag that's more valuable than the other objectives
Red dot: world boss
Black arrow: district ladder






Other random ideas I've had since posting this:

• What if players could purchase tools or traps unique to the Imperial city for use only in IC? I'm thinking things like traps or spell scrolls that summon daedric slaves or lay down a patch of fire on the ground or create a big obstacle that everyone then has to play around. It's a rough idea. I'll have to sleep on it.

Jaronking

Wow I didn't think you would do it. Also might not be a great time the General discussion is going to be full with topics about the new mount.

Rohamad_Ali

Wheels already seen it in Alliance War and responded . With positivity towards it . That's as good as it gets . What's the point of sticking a copy here ?

Jaronking

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Wheels already seen it in Alliance War and responded . With positivity towards it . That's as good as it gets . What's the point of sticking a copy here ?

Let more people see it and see if they have idea that can help improve on the already good design.Plus if Wheeler implement it exactly like this no one can come around later and say no one asked for these changes.

Rohamad_Ali

Jaronking wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Wheels already seen it in Alliance War and responded . With positivity towards it . That's as good as it gets . What's the point of sticking a copy here ?

Let more people see it and see if they have idea that can help improve on the already good design.Plus if Wheeler implement it exactly like this no one can come around later and say no one asked for these changes.

Oh ok .

Enodoc

Jaronking wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Wheels already seen it in Alliance War and responded . With positivity towards it . That's as good as it gets . What's the point of sticking a copy here ?

Let more people see it and see if they have idea that can help improve on the already good design.Plus if Wheeler implement it exactly like this no one can come around later and say no one asked for these changes.

Even so, is that a good enough reason to break the forum rules? I hope ZOS can see past that and still keep these ideas in good standing.

OGLezard

More of this yes. I'm all for actual methods to remove "derpaderp derpaderp stack on crown derp, derpaderp, move with crown MOVE WITH CROWN derpaderp, purge purge derpaderp derpaderp. AOE spam AOE spam derpaderp damnit derpaderp!!!!!!!"

We need more ideas like this, not sets that zergbads use to become stronger derping around pvp

Gj op!!!

llSRRll

I think this game needs an arena so all the large group haters have a place to 1v1. So tired of all these Rambo's complaining about people grouping up to take on more powerful singles. Do you think Hannibal complained about the Roman Zergs, no he just devised a great strategy and implemented it and killed 60,000 Roman soldiers in one day.

Jaronking

llSRRll wrote: »

I think this game needs an arena so all the large group haters have a place to 1v1. So tired of all these Rambo's complaining about people grouping up to take on more powerful singles. Do you think Hannibal complained about the Roman Zergs, no he just devised a great strategy and implemented it and killed 60,000 Roman soldiers in one day.

The problem with that is that ZOS Nerf everything people try to use to win outnumbered fights.For example ground oils ,Adding AOE caps to the game,removing Dynamics ultimate Regan so you get more ultimate the more people you fight.Zos doesn't want you to win outnumbered that's people problem.ZOS just want you to throw numbers at a problem until it works through that had some success but also many failures.

Wait am confused about the bolded part.Are you saying that you believe people who think getting killed by more then 3 Tims their number and having no way to realistically defend themselves because ZOS keep on removing those abilities are at fault?That makes no sense at all .

AOECAPS

Love the ideas but what's going to keep the districts from being zerged down? Other than only having 1 flag currently in districts this is another head scratcher

KenaPKK

AOECAPS wrote: »

Love the ideas but what's going to keep the districts from being zerged down? Other than only having 1 flag currently in districts this is another head scratcher

12 man group size limit and narrow, complex terrain. If a bunch of groups stack up there, experienced small groupers will easily take them out, or just fight elsewhere. Also, if the objectives don't give ticks, what point is there to zerg them -- or to fight a zerg on them?

Also would help to implement a mechanism to prevent them ressing up immediately, such as a brief timer.