Invulnerable guards have got to go

Lynx7386

Another night of thieving ruined by getting caught inside a building. Guard spams roots and wrecking blow, cant get away for long enough to get out a door, cant kill the guard or even incapacitate him long enough to get out the door.

I get that they dont want players coming in and griefing towns by killing everyone, including the guards, but making guards invulnerable is a bad way to do things. Hurry up and get the rest of the justice system implemented if that's what it takes (though, seriously now, we all know that will never actually happen).

dday3six

Perhaps try not getting caught. If anything ZOS needs to boost the potential gold made via thievery, but having a harsh punishment seems fine. If you could just reset easily, only to try again a few moments later that would remove any risk reward element.

FortheloveofKrist

They are as they should be.

cyclonus11

I'm fine with guards being unkillable, but you should still be able to root or stun them to get away. And you should DEFINITELY be able to use doors while in combat.

Lynx7386

dday3six wrote: »

Perhaps try not getting caught. If anything ZOS needs to boost the potential gold made via thievery, but having a harsh punishment seems fine. If you could just reset easily, only to try again a few moments later that would remove any risk reward element.

I go to great lengths to not get caught, but every once in a while when you're in the middle of opening that strongbox some random NPC will walk by and spot you, and you dont even know it's going to happen because the screen is focused in on lockpicking.

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I'm fine with guards being unkillable, but you should still be able to root or stun them to get away. And you should DEFINITELY be able to use doors while in combat.

This i'd be fine with. When I'm in the open, it's never really an issue if a guard comes after me - but when I'm stuck in an inn or shop (why are there even guards indoors?) there's never enough room to actually escape for long enough to open the door and get out. Just let us open the damn door in combat and it wont be a problem anymore.

There's also the issue of the prevent attacking innocents setting, which also stops you from fighting back against guards when they become hostile to you. That needs to get fixed ASAP - I dont go around murdering npcs, but when I'm getting attacked I'd like to be able to fight back without having to open the damn options window first.



ultimately, the issue is that the justice system was half-arsed, half-finished, and will probably never be completed at this point, so we're stuck with a *** poor and incomplete system that just doesnt work.

AlnilamE

No, they don't.

Though you should be able to open doors if you are in combat.

And as you said, the guard should turn red if they become hostile to you (they do if you are KoS).

psygnosi

I think the problem is the passive from thieve's guild skill line that suppose to give you a fast escape portal but I've never seen this work at all. Has anyone ever seen this work?

timidobserver

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another night of thieving ruined by getting caught inside a building.

Judging by this sentence, you did it wrong.

Ackwalan

There is a skill in the thieves guild skill line, that allows you to escape that situation. It is limited (works once an hour or day, I can't remember) but still gives you time to get away or at least out of the building.

Lynx7386

timidobserver wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another night of thieving ruined by getting caught inside a building.

Judging by this sentence, you did it wrong.

As I said before, it cant always be helped, sometimes random bad luck ruins it for you. Even the best player cant avoid that.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

They should make guards killable but leave them with a decent amount of health, then they need to add the Justice System and make it so the challenge isn't avoiding guards but player vigilantes, at least they can be killed.

Who would you rather have to fight when you have 100 stolen items? an invincible guard who in the end you can't win against of a highly skilled player that there is a chance you can put them down?

Solariken

I don't see why they need to be unkillable. Important NPCs can't be attacked anyway. ZOS should just make guard damage scale up with your gold bounty, such that when your bounty reaches a certain threshold the guards basically one-shot you.

TheShadowScout

Personally I can see why they made the guards the way they are... people being as they are... though I would much rather have preferred an more immersive option. Like, say, not making them incincible per se, but... giving them an "Stendarrs Divine Shackle" spell that they can fire off at 50% health which would paralyze all people with a bounty in the vincinity for easy kills (or better, arrests and waking up in a cell... seeing how death isn't really much of a scare for immortal vestiges)

But as has been said, that is what professional thieves have clemency for. That one unlucky time when you get nabbed by the town guard and don't want to loose that purple thingie you just stole... And all other times, you just gotta be careful... and once you used up clemency, launder your stolen goods. and maaaybe call it a day for that round of thievery.

Argruna

*looks at stack for counterfeit pardon edicts on quickbar*

Nope, never had a prob with guards. They always did the 'this is not the thief you are looking for' thing.

Volkodav

Actually,you can get away from them and run until they stop being after you.Andd ifyou are near water jump in.They wont follow you.
I hate that the guards are immortal too.They should be as killable as any other NPC.

ParaNostram

Simple, don't get caught. If you do get caught, oh my wasn't there a thieve's guild passive that could make the guards leave you alone for a few minutes? Almost as if they were offering Clemency or something? Hmmmm... I can't remember the name of this passive that allows guards to offer Clemency. Anyone have any idea how guards would be able to offer Clemency for one's crimes? Hmmmm... I just can't remember the name of this passive that allows you to chose the [Clemency] dialogue choice when caught....

Volkodav

ParaNostram wrote: »

Simple, don't get caught. If you do get caught, oh my wasn't there a thieve's guild passive that could make the guards leave you alone for a few minutes? Almost as if they were offering Clemency or something? Hmmmm... I can't remember the name of this passive that allows guards to offer Clemency. Anyone have any idea how guards would be able to offer Clemency for one's crimes? Hmmmm... I just can't remember the name of this passive that allows you to chose the [Clemency] dialogue choice when caught....

There IS a passive for clemency.It's in the Thieve's Guild.Meaning the new DLC. I have it and use it whenever I have problems.

Duiwel

As a master of the shadows I can escape them while indoors, I can also outrun them or tank them inside cities. I ran inside a city with a KoS bounty yesterday ( forgot I had the bounty until I saw all the red men I didn't stop and ran right through it and back out on my mount ) if you are fast enough they won't even get to attack you once.

Same applies for on foot you should be able to evade them.

If you can't I suggest practising this on a very unwanted alt until you get it right. Since it bothers you.

People should learn that games are meant to be a challenge, this isn't a single player game where you can type ` and cheat your way to god mode. You are not meant to be a god.

theher0not

I agree with guards should be killable. But if they add the PvP justice system I will quit and never come back unless it can be turned off.

Taisynn

The last thing I want is guilds or raids of people going around killing the guards and all the NPC's in sight. People play a game of this. They also do tons of AOE's and spam effects in Mournhold when waiting for their daily Undaunted run. It's annoying, makes it hard to load, and also eliminates the challenge or fear someone should have when being a thief.

Leave the guards the way they are. There is supposed to be fear of getting caught, and in the type of age ESO is in, they'd take a hand or cut your head off. It's realistic.

Turelus

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another night of thieving ruined by getting caught inside a building. Guard spams roots and wrecking blow, cant get away for long enough to get out a door, cant kill the guard or even incapacitate him long enough to get out the door.

I get that they dont want players coming in and griefing towns by killing everyone, including the guards, but making guards invulnerable is a bad way to do things. Hurry up and get the rest of the justice system implemented if that's what it takes (though, seriously now, we all know that will never actually happen).

Perhaps the issue is we can't go through doors in combat rather than the guards are invincible.

Additionally are there not new skills, bounty removal items and risk vs reward gameplay which come into effect.

Letting guards be killable means people will just kill all the guards and then farm/steal without any risk at all.

Lithium Flower

The whole premise of this complaint rests on this assumption:

If I play absolutely correctly, and do everything right: I should win

This is a wrong premise. You can do everything right and still lose because you had bad luck, or overlooked something unforeseen/unforeseeable. There are no guarantees. Thieving is high risk and high reward and sometimes you just roll a critical fail and lose everything. That's working as intended.

ArchMikem

I always find enjoyment out of watching someone get wrecked by a Guard cause I know they screwed up. I'm such a goody two shoes like that.

Sometimes I even try to attack the player.

We can dream can't we.

MarcoPolo

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I'm fine with guards being unkillable, but u should still be able to root or stun them to get away. And you DEFINITELY be able to use doors while in combat.

If you going into sneak you can actually use the door (most of the time) obviously its hard to get into sneak but if you do spam whatever button to open the door and you will get out, I have done this often In daggerfall bank so I know it works

JD2013

I stole about 6k of stuff last night with no trouble from guards.

Don't get caught.

Madness1

Keep the guards as they are, currently it's challenging enough for the pro and amateur. The game currently encourages learning NPC pathing to pull off the perfect stealing run, and if thing go bad the best way to get away. There is a reason i mostly steal in certain areas as I'm 100% sure of every NPC I may encounter and their route with how long they stay in each place, also factoring in if a player is talking to a vendor.

Stealing is like PVP in this game, it's hard. So it's only natural some would be better than others. Saying guards need to be killed is like saying the fundimentals of PVP need to be nerfed. It's no fun if it's easy, there is a lovely feeling when you do a great run and get away free with your pockets full of gold.

If anything there needs to be more of a punishment, and a higher reward. Not the other way around.

ParaNostram

Lithium Flower wrote: »

The whole premise of this complaint rests on this assumption:

If I play absolutely correctly, and do everything right: I should win

This is a wrong premise. You can do everything right and still lose because you had bad luck, or overlooked something unforeseen/unforeseeable. There are no guarantees. Thieving is high risk and high reward and sometimes you just roll a critical fail and lose everything. That's working as intended.

C0wrex

I'm fine with the guards being unkillable.

Keeps that fear factor going in.



I have to say.... being afraid for your life in an MMO? It's been a while since I felt that

GreenhaloX

Yes, it is quite annoying during the early missions of thieves guild. It's not so bad if you're in the open and have a protective ability. You can't escape inside a house or compound, but it's nice to bolt from the guard and get away outside in the open area. The guards can't run after you far in the outside. To me, it is actually fun to escape from the guard.

I agree, they should be killable, even if being harder to kill.. fine.. at least, you will have a fighting chance. Much like the villager who attacks you when you're caught stealing. I got my murderer achievement, intentionally. I got caught by a local, and he chased me and attacked me. I didn't want to kill him. I just kept my block on throughout the attack, and eventually he killed himself. I didn't swing once, just my blocking damaged him. It would be cool if you can do same to the guard.

Rex-Umbra

Guards are so easy to get away from outside. Inside can be a lot harder.

STEVIL

Ok so obviously killable guards wont work cuz guards will be run down by mobs.., unless maybe guards are "killable" but spawn new guards like every second increasing exponentialky so it becomes obvious numbers wont work.

Inside it is IMPERATIVE you "case the joint" and figure out the npc movement patterns. There sre no random NPCs. If you did not take the time and get caught... its on you.

Have an invis pot handy when thieving. Most of the time that and moving up stairs will buy you enough time to adjust or log out.

And i tend to sell off hauls quickly and not accumulate tons of hot items in inventory. Cuts down on risk from stray mishap.

Finally IF you DLC, the TG storyline quest and skills give you very helpful traits like clemency and an on-demand fence.