Sword N Board dps in heavy?

Anti_Virus

Is it viable? If so how would you do it? I know SnB is a tank weapon skill line but can it offer any good dps?

If you got any ideas on what skills and gear I should use please let me know. I will be very greatful .

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No, if you want to stam DPS use medium and duel wield or 2 hander.

Lynx7386

heavy armor will never be able to compete directly with medium or light for damage output. Similarly, the 1h/shield line will never be able to compete directly with dual wield, bow, staff, or 2h for damage output.

However, with the changes to power bash I do like the idea of running a medium armor offtank build with 1h/shield on the back bar, will be trying that on my stamina DK (dual wield on main bar for DPS, obviously). Having the shield at your disposal and more than enough stamina to use it with a medium armor build means you can taunt and tank enemies that happen to run after your healer (or enemies you pull aggro on when you shouldnt) at least until the tank can round things up. The power bash changes mean you'll still be able to dish out pretty heavy damage with that shield on as well.

It will be more effective in pvp though, where the shield bar is used for burst damage.

Anti_Virus

I see well that settles that. I guess I gotta wear leather for it to be viable.

Acsvf

1h/S and heavy armor is okay-ish for a Magicka damage dealer, especially if you're a Templar. I wouldn't recommend it though.

PVP wise, a magicka damage dealer could do that but with Heavy Armor they'll be losing quite a bit of sustain. Same goes for stamina, but they could also use the abilities quite well for both CC and damage.

FatKidHatchets

Heavy SnB DPS is nice. Works wonders in PvP and PvE, aint even bad 1v1, not the best mind you.

High DPS dont have the regen for long fights. So you block their burst. Then wail on them and repeat.

It also makes it easier to heal you as you aren't taking as much damage

Lynx7386

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

High DPS dont have the regen for long fights. So you block their burst. Then wail on them and repeat.

Not exactly an accurate statement. Damage-oriented builds will be using medium or light armor, magicka/stamina depending. The passives from those armor types both increase resource regeneration and reduce resource costs.

A character wearing medium will have much, much better sustain/regen than someone using heavy with a stamina build.
A character wearing light will have much, much better sustain/regen than someone using heavy with a magicka build.

Heavy armor is, admittedly, getting a resource recovery boost with dark brotherhood, but that still wont bring it up to the same level of resource recovery as the other armor types: it's only meant to keep enough magicka/stamina recovery coming in to allow tanks to continue tanking. It will never be enough for an offensive build.

Similarly, you'll get more damage out of medium or light passives than you will out of the new damage passive for heavy (which also requires getting attacked on a constant basis to build up charges).


I know a lot of people like the idea of playing a heavy armor damage dealer, but the game just doesnt support that style of play. You'll always be at a disadvantage to light or medium armor. Heavy is meant for tanking (and, occasionally, pvp).

dday3six

The Wraith Heavy Armor passive has 2 main issues. One it only buffs weapon damage and spell power while taking damage, which you shouldn't be doing that often as a DPS. Two the Critical Hit Chance from Medium Armor works out to be a lot more DPS. Especially with Aggressive Warhorn being provided by Tanks and Healers. The passives from 1H&S are much the same, mostly focused around tanking, and have trouble stacked up against Dual Wield or 2H for that matter. Then there's the issues with Puncture Taunting.

However that is from a PVE prospective. In PVP Heavy Armor w/1H&S can actually work quite well with the right builds. DK's and Templars tend to do the best with it. Crit is countered by Impen, thus not nearly ad useful. You'll take damage continually enough to keep Wraith proc'd. More heals from passives aren't bad either.

Turelus

Honestly it depends what you see viable as. There is plenty of content that can be completed with it and even fun PvP to be had, you won't however win leaderboards with it.

Ahzek

Sword and board DPS can be very viable in (small scale) PvP to keep sustained pressure and good defense at the same time. However you need a few things to make it viable:

Know how to bash-weave. If you cant get the bash in after every skill your DPS will suffer a lot and you will just be doing chip damage most off the time.
Be a redguard. Directly related to bash-weaving, redguard is required to sustain this expensive practice while still retaining offensive stats.
Have additional stamina based pressure and finishing options. This mostly means be a DK, because they can not only apply strong DoTs, but also because they are (till DB) the only class with a phisical damage ultimate. NBs are also very viable with SA weave instead off low slash and soul harvest to finish targets.

Heavy armor is a different beast though. Until it gets the buffs in DB next month, it is quite useless for damage purposes. However, this will change to a certain degree. While its still not desirebale in PvE, in PvP the buffs to constitution and the changes to bracing and rapid mending will give the armor line a lot more sustain, especially for builds that heavy attack a lot. The additional spell/wep dmg is not all that exciting on the other hand, but helps a bit to make up for some off the damage you will loose.

Mojmir

its so sad SnB isnt viable like dual wield and 2 hander. we have a gap closer and a spammable,change one of the taunt morphs to something else and it could be good for dps.

Anti_Virus

Thanks for the advice everyone.

And I see now that's unfortunate because I kinda like tanky dps (mix of both) in heavy but I guess its still not that viable yet just like archer builds.

Meh...

Lynx7386

If you really like how heavy armor "looks", but want to be more damage oriented, I suggest using heavy chest/shoulders and the other 5 slots with medium armor. Those two slots for heavy have the most visual impact on your character, and with 5 medium you'll still have a fair bit of damage output and resource management.

If you're really wanting to use 1h/shield for damage, it -might- be viable in dark brotherhood with the improvements to power bash, but you'll be ostracized from those elitist min-max groups that want you to have the most focused build possible, so make sure you've got friends to play with who dont care about your build =P

BTW, archer builds are perfectly viable, you just need to have access to major brutality by other means - either using a 2hander on your other bar, or with surge/igneous weapons if you're a sorceror or dragonknight. I run a bow on my nightblade for my second weapon bar (2h on main bar) and use the bow for area damage with volley + bombardment + caltrops. Works wonders on groups of enemies.

Anti_Virus

@Lynx7386

What I've been doing is actually wearing heavy armor costumes over my medium armor to have the look of heavy. Lol

As for SnB the change to bash is nice but it still cost too much stamina to be spammed as a dps skill even with medium armors cost reduction plus it no longer stuns. Its a nice change though.

and for bow they can be viable but the main dps skill(snipe) is too slow to be a reliable dps skill also you can't kite in this game. I pretty much use it as a utility weapon rather than a dps weapon(volley, poision injection) then swap to melee weapons.

I've played other MMOs where I ran a heavy armor sword and shield plus bow combo and I actually did good dps with a bow from range and then swaped to melee when I had to engage in melee range.

Lynx7386

What I've been doing is actually wearing heavy armor costumes over my medium armor to have the look of heavy. Lol

That's another option, of course. Personally I hate costumes, they cant be dyed and I didnt spend months of my time leveling clothing, blacksmithing, and woodworking up just to use some half-arsed crown store costume =P I like being able to make unique looking sets of gear for my characters.

As for SnB rhe change to bash is nice but it still cost too much stamina to be spammed as a dps skill even with medium armors cost reduction plus it no longer stuns. Its a nice change though.

With the 50% damage bonus on your next power bash after blocking an attack (which should apply to even blocking aoe effects), I think it might become an extremely efficient burst damage skill, we'll have to see how the damage pans out though.

and for bow they can be viable but the main dps skill(snipe) is too slow to be a reliable dps skill also you can't kite in this game. I pretty much use it as a utility weapon rather than a dpa weapon(volley, poision injection) then swap to melee weapons.

The key to bow dps is dot stacking. You want to keep poison injection and volley on the target (even on single targets) and then weave your snipe/light attacks in. Just relying on snipe or single target attacks isnt going to cut it, and that's really true of any weapon line at this point.

Stannum

1h&b DPS is good choice for PvP

NordSwordnBoard

1H & S has a skill that reflects spells back to caster which is useful in PvP. I just had trouble convincing myself it was more useful than the other skills I could slot instead.

Anti_Virus

I just wish SnB had a dps skill line SA or Jabs

dday3six

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

I just wish SnB had a dps skill line SA or Jabs

Just for reference. Rapid Strikes handedly outperforms both.

Lynx7386

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

I just wish SnB had a dps skill line SA or Jabs

In a skill line that offers a significant boost in defense over other weapon lines, you're not going to see similar levels of damage. It just wont happen, because what's the point in using dual wield or 2h if you can dish out the same offense with a shield that gives you increased armor, spell resistance, and blocking value?

S&B will always be weaker on offense than other weapon lines, that's just how it has to be.

Mike0987

Well, if its possible to make a sorcerer with sword and board/resto staff and have 50 PvPers pounding on you and never even get scratched then I suppose so.

Anti_Virus

Yeah with a good HP regen build.

Anti_Virus

@Lynx7386

But that's the issue why is SnB a defensive weapon? If you want defense you wear heavy armor, and use Weapons Skill lines for dps.

A Sword Is a lethal weapon in combat but so is a shield, it doesn't just block dmg you can also bash with it too. Remeber the bash meta awhile back? Where everyone was bash spamming because it was the highest dps.

Lynx7386

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

@Lynx7386

But that's the issue why is SnB a defensive weapon? If you want defense you wear heavy armor, and use Weapons Skill lines for dps.

A Sword Is a lethal weapon in combat but so is a shield, it doesn't just block dmg you can also bash with it too. Remeber the bash meta awhile back? Where everyone was bash spamming because it was the highest dps.

Realistically, yes, but in real life you don't have to keep everyone balanced. The only way to bring the shield line to the same amount of damage as the others, without breaking the game, would be to remove the shields defensive bonuses, or add them to the other weapons, and that makes even less sense.

Anti_Virus

Lynx7386 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

@Lynx7386

But that's the issue why is SnB a defensive weapon? If you want defense you wear heavy armor, and use Weapons Skill lines for dps.

A Sword Is a lethal weapon in combat but so is a shield, it doesn't just block dmg you can also bash with it too. Remeber the bash meta awhile back? Where everyone was bash spamming because it was the highest dps.

Realistically, yes, but in real life you don't have to keep everyone balanced. The only way to bring the shield line to the same amount of damage as the others, without breaking the game, would be to remove the shields defensive bonuses, or add them to the other weapons , and that makes even less sense.

I think the defensive bonuses should be added to heavy armor to make it more tanky which is the problem with heavy.

In DB heavy got buffs.

-offensive buffs(wrath passive) check
- Sustain buffs (Constitution) check

But still no defensive buffs heavy still wont give that much more protection over medium armor if SnB defens was moved to heavy that would make heavy worth wearing and SnB can be more offensive.

But that's my (ridiculous) 2 cents.

Anti_Virus

dday3six wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

I just wish SnB had a dps skill line SA or Jabs

Just for reference. Rapid Strikes handedly outperforms both.

Yeah it does which kinda sucks since you can double dip in Thamaturge and Mighty.

Savos_Saren

Let's not forget that 1H/S (aka SnB) offers an 8th armor "slot" that can be Divines. While it doesn't raise weapon power the way DW or 2H does- it can increase whatever Mundus you have.

On my magic based tank- I use a Divines shield with a nirnhoned sword. Offers more survivability and still gives a bonus to power.

MIAMI

It's definitely viable as stam nb in general has insane dmg and paired with siphoning and if u animation cancel, you can get good dps out of bash canceling.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

I just wish SnB had a dps skill line SA or Jabs

Just for reference. Rapid Strikes handedly outperforms both.

Yeah it does which kinda sucks since you can double dip in Thamaturge and Mighty.

But jabs is a cone aoe and SA debuffs. You can't just look at single target DPS when looking for a DPS attack. And jabs double dips as well so it seems balanced to me.

Stannum

jaburns wrote: »

Let's not forget that 1H/S (aka SnB) offers an 8th armor "slot" that can be Divines. While it doesn't raise weapon power the way DW or 2H does- it can increase whatever Mundus you have.

On my magic based tank- I use a Divines shield with a nirnhoned sword. Offers more survivability and still gives a bonus to power.

And this armor slot is also "large" enchant slot and with infused trait boosts resource pool good. (one goes all divine another prefer to use divine an small enchant parts and infused on large ones - torso,head,legs and shield)

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If I see anyone but the tank wearing heavy armor and a sword/board, I am going to be pretty darn nervous. Is it viable, i suppose technically yes. Your DPS will suck guar dung, but I am sure you could technically clear most things. People have cleared VWGT with nothing but light attacks. Anything is viable if you know how the game works.

That being said, for the love of all that is holy, dont put the rest of your group for that. If you want to DPS, Medium armor for stam, and light armor for magic. You only need 5 pieces of each. If you want that heavy armor look, go heavy chest and pants, and medium everything else, but 7 medium will outperform it on a stam build.