[Idea] How to make sorcerers pets more useful and open road for 'summoner' gameplay

Sugaroverdose

Firstly i must say that i haven't sorc so my idea is based on feedback from my mate who doesn't like magicka sorc because of 'easy play' on live and prefer stam sorc.

Currently sorc pets are completely uncontrollable and behave like a mobs vs other faction players, also they don't provide flexibility which they should provide, how to fix it:

1. Make pet skill slot more flexible, let's say you choose pet, and place it on your bar, so now you can summon it with button tap, or configure pet by holding pet skill button which should open radial menu, where you can choose pet behavior (always attack, never attack, attack my target and just 'attack').
2. Add at least 3 abilities to each pets from which you can choose what to assign on pet skill button (something like offensive CC or damage, defense abilities like heal or shield or anything other, sustain like resource trade and 'ultimate' which will wipe pet but you will benefit from it a lot).
3. Pets should scales of Thaumaturge, it mostly useless for magicka sorcs in DB(maybe it should be addressed), for stam sorcs it useful but with actual cap they will loose a lot if they decide to 100cp into it.
4. Increase pets health by 3x and give them 3x vulnerability to critical damage(shields on them also should be crittable in this case or should be removed) this change increases pets survivability in PvE and PvP, but in PvP they won't be OP.

How radial menu may looks like:


Top icon - 'Attack' command
Bottom icon - for ultimate, but i my fantasy stopped working so it looks like 'unsummon'
Left pane - skills
Right pane - behavior

Basically only radial menu which allows to choose pet behavior will make pets 3x times more viable.

UPD: Added 3rd point to discuss.
UPD2: Added 4th point based on feedback
UPD3: Added 'concept' image of radial menu

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Firstly i must say that i haven't sorc so my idea is based on feedback from my mate who doesn't like magicka sorc because of 'easy play' on live and prefer stam sorc.

Currently sorc pets are completely uncontrollable and behave like a mobs vs other faction players, also they don't provide flexibility which they should provide, how to fix it:

1. Make pet skill slot more flexible, let's say you choose pet, and place it on your bar, so now you can summon it with button tap, or configure pet by holding pet skill button which should open radial menu, where you can choose pet behavior (always attack, never attack, attack my target)
2. Add at least 3 abilities to each pets from which you can choose what to assign on pet skill button (something like offensive CC or damage, defense abilities like heal or shield or anything other, sustain like resource trade and 'ultimate' which will wipe pet but you will benefit from it a lot)

Basically only radial menu which allows to choose pet behavior will make pets 3x times more viable.

Not bad ideas, but right now we are still in the stages of begging Zenimax to increase the pet's health pool so they aren't instantly killed by staring at it too hard and actually having the pets be affected by Champion Points.

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Firstly i must say that i haven't sorc so my idea is based on feedback from my mate who doesn't like magicka sorc because of 'easy play' on live and prefer stam sorc.

Currently sorc pets are completely uncontrollable and behave like a mobs vs other faction players, also they don't provide flexibility which they should provide, how to fix it:

1. Make pet skill slot more flexible, let's say you choose pet, and place it on your bar, so now you can summon it with button tap, or configure pet by holding pet skill button which should open radial menu, where you can choose pet behavior (always attack, never attack, attack my target)
2. Add at least 3 abilities to each pets from which you can choose what to assign on pet skill button (something like offensive CC or damage, defense abilities like heal or shield or anything other, sustain like resource trade and 'ultimate' which will wipe pet but you will benefit from it a lot)

Basically only radial menu which allows to choose pet behavior will make pets 3x times more viable.

Not bad ideas, but right now we are still in the stages of begging Zenimax to increase the pet's health pool so they aren't instantly killed by staring at it too hard and actually having the pets be affected by Champion Points.

Most of the times they get killed cause they run away from summoner, but i guess they're health may be increased by 1.5 without ruining balance.

deximasb14_ESO

From a pre launch stam sorc, pets need to scale better with max stats. About 120% more dmg. By stats I mean stam AND magics or at least make a stam morph. As far as all the rest this can be worked out. Also if they made the pet last say 15 seconds on bar swap that would be good to keep from having them on like a buff bar or make them worth 2 slots

Sugaroverdose

deximasb14_ESO wrote: »

From a pre launch stam sorc, pets need to scale better with max stats. About 120% more dmg. By stats I mean stam AND magics or at least make a stam morph. As far as all the rest this can be worked out. Also if they made the pet last say 15 seconds on bar swap that would be good to keep from having them on like a buff bar or make them worth 2 slots

i don't think that they should scale a lot or every sorc will just run pets, forgetting about they're own role and just stack shields until pets kill everyone also i don't think that they should have stam or mag morph, every morph should work for both. It's really thin line between OP and useful.

Grao

deximasb14_ESO wrote: »

From a pre launch stam sorc, pets need to scale better with max stats. About 120% more dmg. By stats I mean stam AND magics or at least make a stam morph. As far as all the rest this can be worked out. Also if they made the pet last say 15 seconds on bar swap that would be good to keep from having them on like a buff bar or make them worth 2 slots

I believe at least the Clannfear should scale from Stamina as it does physical damage. Alas, you are not wrong about their damage needing to scale better, having them affected by CPs is one step, another would be for them to be affected not only by Max Magicka, but also by Spell Power.

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Firstly i must say that i haven't sorc so my idea is based on feedback from my mate who doesn't like magicka sorc because of 'easy play' on live and prefer stam sorc.

Currently sorc pets are completely uncontrollable and behave like a mobs vs other faction players, also they don't provide flexibility which they should provide, how to fix it:

1. Make pet skill slot more flexible, let's say you choose pet, and place it on your bar, so now you can summon it with button tap, or configure pet by holding pet skill button which should open radial menu, where you can choose pet behavior (always attack, never attack, attack my target)
2. Add at least 3 abilities to each pets from which you can choose what to assign on pet skill button (something like offensive CC or damage, defense abilities like heal or shield or anything other, sustain like resource trade and 'ultimate' which will wipe pet but you will benefit from it a lot)

Basically only radial menu which allows to choose pet behavior will make pets 3x times more viable.

Not bad ideas, but right now we are still in the stages of begging Zenimax to increase the pet's health pool so they aren't instantly killed by staring at it too hard and actually having the pets be affected by Champion Points.

Most of the times they get killed cause they run away from summoner, but i guess they're health may be increased by 1.5 without ruining balance.

That is in PvP, in PvE they die because they can't handle the damage going around them, there are no reliable ways to heal pets and their shield is not powerful enough to keep them alive. Considering Ward was actually nerfed, pet builds are now even less viable.

Sugaroverdose

Then they should be buffed for PvE but health should be nerfed by battle spirit

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Then they should be buffed for PvE but health should be nerfed by battle spirit

Agreed. Unfortunately @Wrobel says they 'avoid making abilities work or scale differently between PvP and PvE'... It is the issue with sorcerers really... Our best abilities are too good in PvP and thus we must suffer horribly in PvE >.>

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Then they should be buffed for PvE but health should be nerfed by battle spirit

Agreed. Unfortunately @Wrobel says they 'avoid making abilities work or scale differently between PvP and PvE'... It is the issue with sorcerers really... Our best abilities are too good in PvP and thus we must suffer horribly in PvE >.>

There's other option - give them something like ≈15k resists, in PvP it mostly doesn't matter in PvE it should increase their survivability by 25%, or give them increased vulnerability to critical damage, which doesn't matter in PvE, but reduces their survivability in PvP.

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Then they should be buffed for PvE but health should be nerfed by battle spirit

Agreed. Unfortunately @Wrobel says they 'avoid making abilities work or scale differently between PvP and PvE'... It is the issue with sorcerers really... Our best abilities are too good in PvP and thus we must suffer horribly in PvE >.>

There's other option - give them something like ≈15k resists, in PvP it mostly doesn't matter in PvE it should increase their survivability by 25%, or give them increased vulnerability to critical damage, which doesn't matter in PvE, but reduces their survivability in PvP.

yes, I also thought of that possibility. Particularly the weakness to Crits. That would be an idea worth exploring... Supposedly pets already have resistances, though until this DB patch ZOS forgot to give them armor and only gave them spell resistance >.>

Sugaroverdose

Added 2 more points and renamed thread.

Sugaroverdose

Cmon people, discuss, it's the only way to get attention from ZOS, if topic dies nothing will be implemented.

Lynx7386

Summoners will never work until pets deal enough damage to afford losing 2 ability slots each.

Morimizo

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

Sugaroverdose

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Summoners will never work until pets deal enough damage to afford losing 2 ability slots each.

They should not be powerful as players, they should increase or player survivability, or damage, or sustain, but not replace or double it.

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

Giving choise from 6 powerful in different situations summons is OP from my PoV . I may agree that there's should be more summon options, but they must be a hard decision and result as 2 summons available until you respec, so your build should coexist with this two summons. There is already way to have 6 different summons: unmorphed+2 morph for each but unmorphed will be a little less powerful.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I dont know enough to get into pets to much, but you giving pets more then one ability is the wrong way to go i think. Part of the game is picking and choosing which skills you have in your build. Having to take up slots with a pet sucks. So them having one ability fixes this issue.

Having more then one ability then puts them into a spot where they would have to be weak and easy to beat because they would provide more utility then Anyone else could get.

Anyway id rather have the pets be strong and respectable with one strong ability. Then have a weakened pet with 3 weaker abilties for the sake of balance.

Sugaroverdose

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I dont know enough to get into pets to much, but you giving pets more then one ability is the wrong way to go i think. Part of the game is picking and choosing which skills you have in your build. Having to take up slots with a pet sucks. So them having one ability fixes this issue.

Having more then one ability then puts them into a spot where they would have to be weak and easy to beat because they would provide more utility then Anyone else could get.

Anyway id rather have the pets be strong and respectable with one strong ability. Then have a weakened pet with 3 weaker abilties for the sake of balance.

Giving them more than one ability doesn't gives more abilities to summoner, there's is a lot of ways to not make them available 100% of times: they should cost summon resources, should have bigger global cooldown something like 4 secs except 'sacrifice ultimate' which can be casted only in specific conditions, also making them swappable only by radial menu makes it risky to swap skill under pressure, so they shouldn't be weak, but they shouldn't be spammable, some very powerful abilities may even have non instant cast time.

Grao

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

See, this is a little bit silly. If the pets had better or different models they'd be lacking just as much as they are now. Visuals should not come before an ability's numbers.

Right now each morph for the pets has a pretty clear identity, i think ZOS did pretty well at least with that. The Unstable Familiar deals AoE damage around it self, the Matriarch heals and the Tormentor is a single target high DPS. The only one I consider a little underwhelming is the Clannfear; this is supposed to be the tank pet and while the heal pretty good it doesn't make a lot of sense lore wise and build wise. I would love to see the Clannfear have a taunt, but ZOS is clearly against giving classes their own taunts, so maybe get the clannfear some utility AoE? Tail swipe those around stunning and debuffing them for a few seconds? I don't know.

Eitherway, each morph now does have a clear identity. I think once they are affected by CPs and by passives in the sorcerer tree we will be truly able to test their DPS. One thing though, you have to think about the pet DPS as a form of DoT, not as your main source of damage.

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

See, this is a little bit silly. If the pets had better or different models they'd be lacking just as much as they are now. Visuals should not come before an ability's numbers.

Right now each morph for the pets has a pretty clear identity, i think ZOS did pretty well at least with that. The Unstable Familiar deals AoE damage around it self, the Matriarch heals and the Tormentor is a single target high DPS. The only one I consider a little underwhelming is the Clannfear; this is supposed to be the tank pet and while the heal pretty good it doesn't make a lot of sense lore wise and build wise. I would love to see the Clannfear have a taunt, but ZOS is clearly against giving classes their own taunts, so maybe get the clannfear some utility AoE? Tail swipe those around stunning and debuffing them for a few seconds? I don't know.

Eitherway, each morph now does have a clear identity. I think once they are affected by CPs and by passives in the sorcerer tree we will be truly able to test their DPS. One thing though, you have to think about the pet DPS as a form of DoT, not as your main source of damage.

If summons stays with one ability there's no way to make 'summoner' gameplay, in actual state summon = postponed ability with extended special effects which can run away from you and die.

Attackopsn

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

Grao

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

We have asked ZOS this quite a few times, to have Daedric Curse work as a beacon for your pets...

Sugaroverdose

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

If i would like to be summoner who use summon as utility, not a DPS, but still want to control it? And what's bad if you just hold for 0.5 second button, make gesture with mouse to top and see that your pet starts to attack?

From PoV of topic start suggestion this will just remove control, maybe i use curse as execute, but i don't want my twilight who used as healer and maybe CC to aggro and get killed.

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

If i would like to be summoner who use summon as utility, not a DPS, but still want to control it? And what's bad if you just hold for 0.5 second button, make gesture with mouse to top and see that your pet starts to attack?

From PoV of topic start suggestion this will just remove control, maybe i use curse as execute, but i don't want my twilight who used as healer and maybe CC to aggro and get killed.

Oh no, you miss understand me, I don't think using Curse has to be the only way to control the pets! I think if you are running the pets for their utility and the low DPS that is fine and you can use the pet command to order them to attack this or that targets, the pet command would still be there.

What I am arguing in favor of is to have the pets automatically target a target cursed if there is a target cursed. Essentially it is one less button you need to press while controlling your pet. It is a matter of commodity really.

A problem with your idea of having the wheel command appear is that in lag intensive situations those menus are the first thing not to work properly. ^^

Morimizo

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Summoners will never work until pets deal enough damage to afford losing 2 ability slots each.

They should not be powerful as players, they should increase or player survivability, or damage, or sustain, but not replace or double it.

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

Giving choise from 6 powerful in different situations summons is OP from my PoV . I may agree that there's should be more summon options, but they must be a hard decision and result as 2 summons available until you respec, so your build should coexist with this two summons. There is already way to have 6 different summons: unmorphed+2 morph for each but unmorphed will be a little less powerful.

The choice could be at the second tier, whether to go with Clannfear, Tormentor, Flame Atronach, or how many ever they wanted to include (a very appealing special attribute for Summoners, to have more choices); this would force players to stay with their chosen visual/ability preference until respec. In order to get a summon to have the skills you desire and not remove the current ones that people do like, it seems variety is the best option. Again, not interested in any of them being more powerful per se, just have different utility and visuals.

I prefer not micromanaging my summons during combat, they are from Oblivion after all, and should be a bit unruly. Perhaps it's the RP'er in me. My main is a Sorc with a Clannfear tank, and I think it does quite well in most PvE situations keeping multiple adds away from me, though I admit it's challenging to keep it shielded/alive for tougher fights like Wrothgar WBs (obviously). But it can still buy a few precious moments to heal or evade.

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

If i would like to be summoner who use summon as utility, not a DPS, but still want to control it? And what's bad if you just hold for 0.5 second button, make gesture with mouse to top and see that your pet starts to attack?

From PoV of topic start suggestion this will just remove control, maybe i use curse as execute, but i don't want my twilight who used as healer and maybe CC to aggro and get killed.

Oh no, you miss understand me, I don't think using Curse has to be the only way to control the pets! I think if you are running the pets for their utility and the low DPS that is fine and you can use the pet command to order them to attack this or that targets, the pet command would still be there.

What I am arguing in favor of is to have the pets automatically target a target cursed if there is a target cursed. Essentially it is one less button you need to press while controlling your pet. It is a matter of commodity really.

A problem with your idea of having the wheel command appear is that in lag intensive situations those menus are the first thing not to work properly. ^^

Can't really remember any situation when radial menu had lag, even when skills require 3 seconds to start cast and wepswap isn't working at all

Grao

Morimizo wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Summoners will never work until pets deal enough damage to afford losing 2 ability slots each.

They should not be powerful as players, they should increase or player survivability, or damage, or sustain, but not replace or double it.

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

Giving choise from 6 powerful in different situations summons is OP from my PoV . I may agree that there's should be more summon options, but they must be a hard decision and result as 2 summons available until you respec, so your build should coexist with this two summons. There is already way to have 6 different summons: unmorphed+2 morph for each but unmorphed will be a little less powerful.

The choice could be at the second tier, whether to go with Clannfear, Tormentor, Flame Atronach, or how many ever they wanted to include (a very appealing special attribute for Summoners, to have more choices); this would force players to stay with their chosen visual/ability preference until respec. In order to get a summon to have the skills you desire and not remove the current ones that people do like, it seems variety is the best option. Again, not interested in any of them being more powerful per se, just have different utility and visuals.

I prefer not micromanaging my summons during combat, they are from Oblivion after all, and should be a bit unruly. Perhaps it's the RP'er in me. My main is a Sorc with a Clannfear tank, and I think it does quite well in most PvE situations keeping multiple adds away from me, though I admit it's challenging to keep it shielded/alive for tougher fights like Wrothgar WBs (obviously). But it can still buy a few precious moments to heal or evade.

You think it is bad keeping the Clannfear alive in Live and in open world PvE? Try it on the PTS with Ward lasting 60 % less and in Raids. >.<

I think the pet's utility in general is pretty ok, each pet having their particular role, so let me ask, what other sort of utility you'd like to see from the pets? You have one that does AoE and a low CC, one that does damage, one that heals and a tank (that heals for some reason - Clannfear should have a roar that fears if we can't have it have a taunt).

As for micromanaging the pets... I beg to disagree. I don't want to have to control how they move, but I like to have a command I can give them to use certain skills. I also like the dynamic of having to care for your pet, making sure it stays alive. That is something I think the summoner tree heavily lacks right now, the ability to actually keep your pet from dying. Why Id' really like to see Ward Heal pets affected by it on top of shielding them.

Grao

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

If i would like to be summoner who use summon as utility, not a DPS, but still want to control it? And what's bad if you just hold for 0.5 second button, make gesture with mouse to top and see that your pet starts to attack?

From PoV of topic start suggestion this will just remove control, maybe i use curse as execute, but i don't want my twilight who used as healer and maybe CC to aggro and get killed.

Oh no, you miss understand me, I don't think using Curse has to be the only way to control the pets! I think if you are running the pets for their utility and the low DPS that is fine and you can use the pet command to order them to attack this or that targets, the pet command would still be there.

What I am arguing in favor of is to have the pets automatically target a target cursed if there is a target cursed. Essentially it is one less button you need to press while controlling your pet. It is a matter of commodity really.

A problem with your idea of having the wheel command appear is that in lag intensive situations those menus are the first thing not to work properly. ^^

Can't really remember any situation when radial menu had lag, even when skills require 3 seconds to start cast and wepswap isn't working at all

Ugh, under Cyrodiil lag it takes for ever for me to activate those wheel menus for trades...

Morimizo

Grao wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Summoners will never work until pets deal enough damage to afford losing 2 ability slots each.

They should not be powerful as players, they should increase or player survivability, or damage, or sustain, but not replace or double it.

Morimizo wrote: »

Summons would be much more interesting to folks if there was a better variety of types;

For example, have an additional set of morphs for each current morph that would give 4 new summon types, say, Daedroth (smaller version), Xivilai, Hunger, and Harvester (also smaller).

Now each type shouldn't necessarily be more powerful than the Clannfear or Winged Twilight, just have different abilities/strengths/weaknesses. That said, I would encourage all 6 summon possibilities to be switched between freely once all morphs are maxed, perhaps with the radial menu you suggest.

All could use a HP and damage boost, of course, but utility is more important. Are they a Tank? A healer? An AoE DoT DPS? A debuffer or buffer?

I'd be surprised if @Gidorick didn't have some marvelous details concerning this subject.

Giving choise from 6 powerful in different situations summons is OP from my PoV . I may agree that there's should be more summon options, but they must be a hard decision and result as 2 summons available until you respec, so your build should coexist with this two summons. There is already way to have 6 different summons: unmorphed+2 morph for each but unmorphed will be a little less powerful.

The choice could be at the second tier, whether to go with Clannfear, Tormentor, Flame Atronach, or how many ever they wanted to include (a very appealing special attribute for Summoners, to have more choices); this would force players to stay with their chosen visual/ability preference until respec. In order to get a summon to have the skills you desire and not remove the current ones that people do like, it seems variety is the best option. Again, not interested in any of them being more powerful per se, just have different utility and visuals.

I prefer not micromanaging my summons during combat, they are from Oblivion after all, and should be a bit unruly. Perhaps it's the RP'er in me. My main is a Sorc with a Clannfear tank, and I think it does quite well in most PvE situations keeping multiple adds away from me, though I admit it's challenging to keep it shielded/alive for tougher fights like Wrothgar WBs (obviously). But it can still buy a few precious moments to heal or evade.

You think it is bad keeping the Clannfear alive in Live and in open world PvE? Try it on the PTS with Ward lasting 60 % less and in Raids. >.<

I think the pet's utility in general is pretty ok, each pet having their particular role, so let me ask, what other sort of utility you'd like to see from the pets? You have one that does AoE and a low CC, one that does damage, one that heals and a tank (that heals for some reason - Clannfear should have a roar that fears if we can't have it have a taunt).

As for micromanaging the pets... I beg to disagree. I don't want to have to control how they move, but I like to have a command I can give them to use certain skills. I also like the dynamic of having to care for your pet, making sure it stays alive. That is something I think the summoner tree heavily lacks right now, the ability to actually keep your pet from dying. Why Id' really like to see Ward Heal pets affected by it on top of shielding them.

You don't consider having to reapply the ward more often as caring for the summons? Seems like busier work in standard PvE, but makes no difference in the raids you mention. And can't you direct the summon to attack now? I thought they added that in the IC update.

As for utility ideas, Buffs, like dodge chance%, phys/spell resistance, immunity to certain types of CC's; maybe an Air Atronach summon could keep you from being snared. The difference with me is that I would like these skills to be passive, instead of having to be cast every 6 seconds. You know, a benefit for having a particular friend along?

Sugaroverdose

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This might have been said, but what if velocious curse applied a target lock for pets?

If you want that your pet attack your target there's an option for that, we have 8 slots in radial menu, lets count: 3 behavior, 3 abilities, 1 ultimate, 1 don't have anything, so we can just add 'Attack' option there, which will force summon to attack highlighted or tab-targeted player/mob. Using curse as targeting will force everyone who want to be summoner run it, in result he looses at least 3 slots to use 1 summon.

Everyone that wants to run pets should run Daedric curse / Prey though. It is a 55% increase damage to your Pet's DPS which is quite a bit. If you are using Tormentor, the highest DPS pet, those 55% combined with the pet's active mean the pet is actually doing 105% more damage than its base damage or more...

If i would like to be summoner who use summon as utility, not a DPS, but still want to control it? And what's bad if you just hold for 0.5 second button, make gesture with mouse to top and see that your pet starts to attack?

From PoV of topic start suggestion this will just remove control, maybe i use curse as execute, but i don't want my twilight who used as healer and maybe CC to aggro and get killed.

Oh no, you miss understand me, I don't think using Curse has to be the only way to control the pets! I think if you are running the pets for their utility and the low DPS that is fine and you can use the pet command to order them to attack this or that targets, the pet command would still be there.

What I am arguing in favor of is to have the pets automatically target a target cursed if there is a target cursed. Essentially it is one less button you need to press while controlling your pet. It is a matter of commodity really.

A problem with your idea of having the wheel command appear is that in lag intensive situations those menus are the first thing not to work properly. ^^

Can't really remember any situation when radial menu had lag, even when skills require 3 seconds to start cast and wepswap isn't working at all

Ugh, under Cyrodiil lag it takes for ever for me to activate those wheel menus for trades...

It's connected to other players, try to switch potion or emote menu.