SORC FEEDBACK FROM A SEASONED PRO PTS v2.4.3

genjutsu_kami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFmJdJGYGo

Hello everyone, this post is created to discuss a video by a youtuber that plays this game a lot.

First of all I would like to address that this player in my opinion is a respectable player and has over a thousand hours on this game and has been an advocate of this game for a long time since the game has been released. Wether you like this individual or not for personal reasons please keep it to yourself, your personal opinion on this person will not help this thread and will not be relevant to the discussion, I would like everyone to acknowledge that this person has a lot of experience in this game and his points have substance and his suggestions are valid, this is proven in his statistics that he has shown and also established him self in the community in a positive way. (there are other individuals who have the same affect on the community some I have not mentioned please do not take this as a singling out of someone who only just does positive for the community I am aware there are others as well.

So please leave your negative or personal opinions away from the thread and lets talk about this video and feedback, thank you in advance.

Please have a look at the video I feel he has some great points to make this class enjoyable for players who play this class.

There are positives and negatives he points out but overall I feel the highlight is the suggestions that he gives are suggestions the community genuinely agree with and maybe have suggested also.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK

Minalan

Points to take away from this:

Stam sorc is awesome, give them a Stam frags morph. Make it melee range, 6 meters or something. Physical damage from the blast, so it scales right.

The nerfs on sorc shields are too much, 10-12 seconds would be better. Shields are our only defense on the Magicka build now that surge heals are dirt.

Sorc play is boring for him because of the class design. I disagree, it's fine but to each their own.

RoxyPhoenix

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

PainfulFAFA

1:37
lol

Ajaxduo

"I think 6 seconds is a bitc---bit harsh."

WhiteNoiseMaker

Minalan wrote: »

The nerfs on sorc shields are too much, 10-12 seconds would be better. Shields are our only defense on the Magicka build now that surge heals are dirt.

But Empowered Ward has been extended to 10 Sec and Hardened to 8 Sec...?

Digiman

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The nerfs on sorc shields are too much, 10-12 seconds would be better. Shields are our only defense on the Magicka build now that surge heals are dirt.

But Empowered Ward has been extended to 10 Sec and Hardened to 8 Sec...?

Empowered Ward is 10 seconds but Hardened Ward is still 6 seconds.

Would be nice if it was 9.

As for Deltia he doesn't really play magicka, he pretty much is a FoTM type player that sticks with stamina. But he does address some key problems with sorcerers.

Too many toggles that are required to be on all weapon bars to remain active. Not really any fun abilities or instant damage spells we need.

What really ticks me off is @Wrobel managed to change disintegration to affect all physical but stuck magicka side of the damage with shock only.

Your going to see a lot my Stamina Sorcs doing DPS for PvP. I am sorry but Magicka sorcerers are in dead so save for a tombstone.

Sick of this BS tug of war game @Wrobel and now we might have to wait 6 months for them to address magicka?

TheHsN

yes...they need to fix things for magicka sorcerer...

- bring back to POWER SURGE
- make hardened ward 10 or 12 sec
- make us a Main DPS skill that belongs to our sorcerer tree.. not from a weapon sill line...

Firerock2

Minalan wrote: »

Points to take away from this:

Stam sorc is awesome, give them a Stam frags morph. Make it melee range, 6 meters or something. Physical damage from the blast, so it scales right.

So make a copy of wrecking blow?

Digiman

Wrecking blow knock backs plus it doesn't benefit from the dark magic passives.

Aletheion

I have no idea how he's getting 13 and 14k on Implosion at 2:20.

I play a magicka caster sorc and have PTS template set up pretty much the same as my main on live with 5x Juli, 2x Kena (all magicka enchants), 3x Willpower (spell power enchant), 1x Maelstrom and 300 CP producing unbuffed Spell damage of 2932 and 52.6 crit, 34k magicka, the tooltip on Implosion is 8690 with 70 points into Elemental Expert.It goes up to 9091 with 100 points into Elemental Expert.

He has 2498 unbuffed weapon damage and 49.5 crit (seen at 5:08). How the heck is he seeing 14k for Implosion??

-Aletheion

Woeler

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

They do, just have to approach them in the right way, and sometimes they just disagree, also gotta acknowledge that.

luxfreak

Aletheion wrote: »

I have no idea how he's getting 13 and 14k on Implosion at 2:20.

I play a magicka caster sorc and have PTS template set up pretty much the same as my main on live with 5x Juli, 2x Kena (all magicka enchants), 3x Willpower (spell power enchant), 1x Maelstrom and 300 CP producing unbuffed Spell damage of 2932 and 52.6 crit, 34k magicka, the tooltip on Implosion is 8690 with 70 points into Elemental Expert.It goes up to 9091 with 100 points into Elemental Expert.

He has 2498 unbuffed weapon damage and 49.5 crit (seen at 5:08). How the heck is he seeing 14k for Implosion??

-Aletheion

I neither like Deltia, nor can i judge theese numbers right, or wrong.
Nut you have to keep in mind, Spells dont always Scale the Same on Magika and Stamina.
Next, in the Video he is on his 2h Bar, is unbuffed, is in a PVP Setup(2 Bloodspawn parts), and probably runs lila Weapons, enchantments. I dont even know if he enchanted his Jewelry with Weapon Damage correctly alredy.
So he is missing around 1k Weapon Damage to a normal Stamina Main Bar, and around 1.5k and 15% crit to a fully Buffed Stam Sorc.
So what he told were a guess Value, based upon the Value he currently has, and probably with the assumption that Implosion can crit.

Firerock2

Digiman wrote: »

Wrecking blow knock backs plus it doesn't benefit from the dark magic passives.

So basically make a more powerful wrecking blow that caters to sorcerers only. I get ya

ToRelax

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

I respectfully disagree...

RoxyPhoenix

ToRelax wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

I respectfully disagree...

Why? I am not sayin he is right or wrong, nor that he is Best Player out there, i simply acknowledge his vast contribution in promoting, educating and sharing game mechanics. You cant deny him that. Therefore, i see him as a sort of ambasador regardless of his skills or personal agenda. A person like that should be listen to.

ToRelax

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

I respectfully disagree...

Why? I am not sayin he is right or wrong, nor that he is Best Player out there, i simply acknowledge his vast contribution in promoting, educating and sharing game mechanics. You cant deny him that. Therefore, i see him as a sort of ambasador regardless of his skills or personal agenda. A person like that should be listen to.

I'm not saying he's not contributing to the community - and I'll give credit to anyone doing so. I'm saying there are players who would say he often does not know what he is talking about. I myself find this feedback here very shallow, but at least it's not as misleading as I found some other videos to be.

Jar_Ek

I think he seriously underestimates the impact of the Surge changes in end game pve for stamina sorcerers. It's fine for ic, public dungeons and the like but falls short at vma and the like. In PvP it will be great for bows and good for caltrops heals I expect. But if you get focussed you'll be toast (so no change there really).

Grao

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I think he seriously underestimates the impact of the Surge changes in end game pve for stamina sorcerers. It's fine for ic, public dungeons and the like but falls short at vma and the like. In PvP it will be great for bows and good for caltrops heals I expect. But if you get focussed you'll be toast (so no change there really).

The nerf to Surge doesn't concern me terribly when it comes to PvE group content. In a raid you have healers to keep you alive, so your own HPS is less relevant. It is in Solo Pve, namely VMA that we've seen how horrible it will be. @Deltia is nice guy and his videos are useful, but he is definitely not the most knowledgeable Sorcerer and I don't think he ran extensive tests on Sorcerers in the PTS, just superficial ones.

Reverb

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

Grao

Reverb wrote: »

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

That is because sorcerers are currently a very bland class... You need really good seasoning to bring what little flavor they still have... Not likely worth the effort though, the taste isn't great even with optimal seasoning right now.

genjutsu_kami

Reverb wrote: »

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

I like the use of food analogy very clever, although I saw this coming.

I wouldn't say this contributes to the discussion.

If you do have any good ideas on how to improve Sorc changes they would be welcomed. Thanks in advance

genjutsu_kami

ToRelax wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

I dont think there would be anyone who could say that Deltia does not know what his talking about. Regardless of what we might feel about him u gotta admit he cracked down ESO on every possible level of gameplay. Having said that, if ZOS wont listen to him, they wont listen to anyone.

I respectfully disagree...

Why? I am not sayin he is right or wrong, nor that he is Best Player out there, i simply acknowledge his vast contribution in promoting, educating and sharing game mechanics. You cant deny him that. Therefore, i see him as a sort of ambasador regardless of his skills or personal agenda. A person like that should be listen to.

I'm not saying he's not contributing to the community - and I'll give credit to anyone doing so. I'm saying there are players who would say he often does not know what he is talking about. I myself find this feedback here very shallow, but at least it's not as misleading as I found some other videos to be.

valid points from each,

there is something very consistent not only in both your comments but deltias feedback video also and to take it a step further i think the whole community have consistent views about these changes. It seems we have similar feelings and thoughts about these changes for this specific class, some opinions are a stretch and some are very realist but there is a genuine concern about improving the gameplay of this class.

I have seen threads such as these receive so much interest filled with great ideas that are often consistent in the visions of players who want ZOS to meet them on this vision.

My biggest issue is that there are fantastic ideas and they are not being considered or being treated like background noise. We as player arguably have the best insight into how to improve a class we play regularly so its only natural when a consistent issue is being talked about in different ways that it needs to be addressed by the developers. And when its not its a kick in the face.

Reverb

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

I like the use of food analogy very clever, although I saw this coming.

I wouldn't say this contributes to the discussion.

If you do have any good ideas on how to improve Sorc changes they would be welcomed. Thanks in advance

Player adaptability is the key to making the sorc changes better. Lengthy, quality feedback is given (and some of it acknowledged) in the official sorc feedback thread. But the bottom line is that players will adapt and successful builds will emerge, both magicka and stam.

Personally, I love my sorc on live, and I still enjoyed him and was successfully completing content on pts. I haven't tried a sorc template since the pts update and EU copy, but I'm confident that I would still find a way to have fun playing one. I mained a Templar and a DK since early launch, so I'm accustomed to having my toons beaten with a nerf bat, or completely changed, and hearing the community outcry that the class is dead.

genjutsu_kami

Reverb wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

I like the use of food analogy very clever, although I saw this coming.

I wouldn't say this contributes to the discussion.

If you do have any good ideas on how to improve Sorc changes they would be welcomed. Thanks in advance

Player adaptability is the key to making the sorc changes better. Lengthy, quality feedback is given (and some of it acknowledged) in the official sorc feedback thread. But the bottom line is that players will adapt and successful builds will emerge, both magicka and stam.

Personally, I love my sorc on live, and I still enjoyed him and was successfully completing content on pts. I haven't tried a sorc template since the pts update and EU copy, but I'm confident that I would still find a way to have fun playing one. I mained a Templar and a DK since early launch, so I'm accustomed to having my toons beaten with a nerf bat, or completely changed, and hearing the community outcry that the class is dead.

i do agree players do adapt to unwanted changes well although some adaptations are severely more painful than others, in particular stam sorcs, if we put all class into the same context and lets say hypothetically changes were made to each class that was unfavored i can almost guarantee players who are willing will adapt but i can also guarantee some adaptations such as stam sorc will be very very painful as to say stam templar with increase in cleansing ritual cost from 2k+ to 3K+

Grao

Reverb wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Haven't watched the video yet, but was drawn in by the thread title. What do you use for seasoning your sorcs? The ones I try are always either bland or over salted. I am interested in a more flavorful, seasoned sorc. Frost Mirriam perhaps?

I like the use of food analogy very clever, although I saw this coming.

I wouldn't say this contributes to the discussion.

If you do have any good ideas on how to improve Sorc changes they would be welcomed. Thanks in advance

Player adaptability is the key to making the sorc changes better. Lengthy, quality feedback is given (and some of it acknowledged) in the official sorc feedback thread. But the bottom line is that players will adapt and successful builds will emerge, both magicka and stam.

Personally, I love my sorc on live, and I still enjoyed him and was successfully completing content on pts. I haven't tried a sorc template since the pts update and EU copy, but I'm confident that I would still find a way to have fun playing one. I mained a Templar and a DK since early launch, so I'm accustomed to having my toons beaten with a nerf bat, or completely changed, and hearing the community outcry that the class is dead.

I don't ever remember Templars or DKs being weak in every PvE role... As far as I can recall Templars were always the best healers and DKs the best tanks and top on the DPS chart.

Sorcerers were already low on the DPS chart, this patch comes with nerfs to our already failing DPS, nerfs to our survivability, a few buffs to stamina builds and only one significant improvement to the class, that being the buff to negate.

It is funny how the guys that say 'hey you will adapt' are always the ones that main another class and can simply return to their mains when their sorcerer become too frustrating to play. Our adaptation alternative right now is to play a class we don't want to or not play this game at all, since our mains are pretty much ruined.

Minalan

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The nerfs on sorc shields are too much, 10-12 seconds would be better. Shields are our only defense on the Magicka build now that surge heals are dirt.

But Empowered Ward has been extended to 10 Sec and Hardened to 8 Sec...?

As someone mentioned. Hardened ward is still 6 seconds. It should be 10 seconds, with empowered at 12.

Empowered ward is a 6K shield in PVP with 40K Magicka and 70-80 or so bastion. That won't even soak up a single non-crit ambush or wrecking blow.

Hardened is 9-10K in Cyrodiil. That would soak up at least one good shot.

The devs need to take a sorc through VMA. Period. If it's ridiculously hard and not fun, it needs to change.

Grao

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!