Huh...

mtwiggz

robwolf666 wrote: »

I'm no troll, just someone trying to understand the vast differences between characters, and while I accept skill is part of it, it doesn't explain all of it. If ZoS have left something in the game they know full well gives some players an advantage over others, then they're just as guilty of removing the element of skill based competition, esp. when some people don't know about it, how to use it, or are simply not inclined to use it so they ARE actually interested in using skill instead of a shortcut... I still say it's an exploit of sorts, and cheating. *shrug*

What it all comes down to is situation awareness and player skill. Two VR16s in the same gear, same stats, same CP and same skill bars does not mean that they are equal players.

Animation cancelling has been a sore subject since day one. It's available for everyone to use and learn, but you'd be right in saying it's not stated anywhere. There's plenty of videos on YouTube on how to properly do it with different skills, as the timing is a bit different depending. Learn it, practice it, live it. Otherwise you'll continue to get your face smashed in by the masses.

CasNation

robwolf666 wrote: »

I'm no troll, just someone trying to understand the vast differences between characters, and while I accept skill is part of it, it doesn't explain all of it. If ZoS have left something in the game they know full well gives some players an advantage over others, then they're just as guilty of removing the element of skill based competition, esp. when some people don't know about it, how to use it, or are simply not inclined to use it so they ARE actually interested in using skill instead of a shortcut... I still say it's an exploit of sorts, and cheating. *shrug*

That is pretty much like saying wearing armor is an exploit, or people wearing a certain high level set is an exploit, simply because it gives some players an advantage over others that don't use it. Like it or not, animation cancelling is an officially acknowledged part of the game. Even some of the core systems (standardized ultimate generation) are based around the assumption that people are animation cancelling in both pvp and pve.

Also, if you think that these people are killing you simply because they are animation cancelling, and not because they are legitimately more skilled than you, then you've got another wrecking blow coming. As others have said before, some of these people have spent YEARS in cyrodiil, and if you are just starting, there is no way you can expect to be on even footing with them simply because you are the same level.

You haven't told us what your build is yet either (unless I missed it). If you can provide that information, it will be easier for us point out where you might be having issues, and where you can improve.

Fallen_Ray

Magdalina wrote: »

One thing that might give someone an ultimate advantage over you is ping. I have dueled a lot of people and it's actually VISIBLE just how much faster it is possible for people with <100 ping to perform certain actions/combinations that can save their lives while performed by me with my ~300 ping they'd get me killed. It's not impossible to beat a (good) player with low ping but it is certainly harder than when fighting those with ping similar to yours.

Now if you're in US with ~100 ping yourself...and even if you aren't...let's move onto next part, anyway;)

PvP is that place where the difference between good and bad build (also good and bad connection...)

I'm with you. I believe and know that in PVP encounters in online games (not just ESO) depend alot on your connection rather than skill. A player with excellent internet connection will always triumph over the player with average internet connection. Skills are not so important here.

Reaction time is meaningless when you're already dead on the player with good connection side of the screen. If that made any sense...

robwolf666

@CasNation My V16 is a Nightblade.

Well, if this animation thing is part of the game, and ZoS can't remove it, then they should make it common knowledge and explain how to do it, at least people would then know about it and be able to learn how to do it, but it would also provide a way to level the field a bit, since it sounds like a skill in itself to learn how to do it.

Wollust

robwolf666 wrote: »

@CasNation My V16 is a Nightblade.

Well, if this animation thing is part of the game, and ZoS can't remove it, then they should make it common knowledge and explain how to do it, at least people would then know about it and be able to learn how to do it, but it would also provide a way to level the field a bit, since it sounds like a skill in itself to learn how to do it.

Well ZoS does occasionally talk about it on the forums, but it's true that there is no in-game tutorial. However, if you want to be even a little bit competitive and you start doing some research, you'll find out about animation cancelling in less than 20 minutes. And it's not really hard to learn but it takes some practice.

Duiwel

robwolf666 wrote: »

... Now, I know I'm exactly an expert at PvP...

I believe you meant to insert a NOT ^ in there

CasNation

robwolf666 wrote: »

@CasNation My V16 is a Nightblade.

Well, if this animation thing is part of the game, and ZoS can't remove it, then they should make it common knowledge and explain how to do it, at least people would then know about it and be able to learn how to do it, but it would also provide a way to level the field a bit, since it sounds like a skill in itself to learn how to do it.

Okay, NB, but what sort of gear are you using? What are the traits on that gear? Which sets? What tier of upgrade are they at? What do your skill bars look like? How are are your attributes and enchants distributed, and how do your stats look as a result? Are you using food/drink, and what kind? How many CP do you have, and where have you spent them?

A combination of these factors can have drastic difference in performance in PvP. For example, you might have perfect everything, but if you aren't eating food, or are eating the wrong food, you could easily get wrecked.

And fair enough o ZoS communicating about animation cancelling. I understand why they don't communicate it, but everyone having knowledge of it would help. That said, they also don't explain a LOT of core mechanics in game...like the fact that blocking can only drain your stam every 0.5 seconds...

robwolf666

Okay then, my load out as it were:

Race: Wood Elf
Level: Vet 16
Class: Nightblade
Champion Rank: 168
CP: 56 of 167

Attributes:
Magicka = 16
Health = 18
Stamina = 30

Boon: The Steed (Movement Speed & Health Recovery)

Max Health: 14833
Max Stamina: 16532
Max Magicka: 12590
Health Recovery: 1066
Stamina Recovery: 1102
Magicka Recovery: 621

Spell Damage: 1359
Weapon Damage: 1755
Spell Crit.: 15%
Weapon Crit.: 22.5%

Spell Resist.: 14197
Physical Resist.: 16156
Critical Resist.: 430

Skills:
Assassination = 50
Shadow = 50
Siphoning = 50
Two Handed = 8
One Hand & Shield = 6
Dual Wield = 50
Bow = 50
Destruction Staff = 11
Restoration Staff = 1
Light Armour = 6
Medium Armour = 50
Heavy Armour = 40
Legerdemain = 11
Soul Magic = 6
Fighters Guild = 10
Mages Guild = 8
Thieves Guild = 1
Undaunted = 2
Assault = 7
Support = 7
Wood Elf Skills = 50
Alchemy = 6
Blacksmithing = 50
Clothing = 50
Enchanting = 9
Provisioning = 5
Woodworking = 50

Ability Bars:
Dual Wield:
Ambush IV
Shadowy Disguise IV
Swallow Soul IV
Rapid Strikes IV
Whirling Blades IV
Soul Tether IV

Bow:
Venom Arrow IV
Shadowy Disguise IV
Focused Aim IV
Silver Shards IV
Piercing Mark IV
Soul Assault III

Equipment:
Bow of Endurance: Damage 1132, Deals 521 Magic Damage & Restores 237 Health. Infused 17%.
Axe of the Night Mother: Damage 1132, Deals 664 Flame Damage. Defending 5%.
Sword of Agility: Damage 1132, Deals 521 Magic Damage & Restores 224 Stamina. Precise, 3%.
Helmet of Hist Bark (Medium): Armour 1739. Divines 6.5%.
Voidsteel Cuirass of Magicka (Heavy): Armour 2612. +447 Max Magicka Enchantment.
Arm Cops of Hist Bark (Medium): Armour 1739. Divines 6.5%.
Belt of Hist Bark (Medium): Armour 745. Divines 6.5%.
Gauntlets of Clan Shatul (Medium): Armour 1156. Reinforced 15%. +324 Max Stamina Enchantment.
Voidsteel Greaves of Magicka (Heavy): Armour 2285. +447 Max Magicka Enchantment.
Boots of Hist Bark (Medium): Armour 1739. Divines 6.5%.
Necklace of Agility: +157 Stamina Recovery Enchantment. +924 Maximum Health.
Ring of Endurance: +157 Health Recovery. +840 Maximum Stamina.
Ring of the Furious One: +141 Weapon Damage. +780 Maximum Stamina.

I'll get back to you on the level of the skills, but I think most are around 4 I think. I'll edit the post in a bit to show them.

CasNation

@robwolf666

Thank you for posting your set up. Given this info, I can see where you are having trouble.

In short, you are playing a hybrid. Meaning, you are relying equally on magicka and stamina to deal damage and defend yourself. This essentially results in your stats being too low in the places that matter, because you have split them evenly between several places.

Before I get too in depth on your build, are your stats (just mag, stam and health) recorded while you are in cyrodiil, or out? Is that including food, or no? Good food can increase each stat by ~4k, and your health increases by 5k while in cyrodiil.

Rohamad_Ali

babedenny wrote: »

Honest question...

How does one cheat in combat? No, I'm looking for tips. Besides, I'm only V8 anyway. I'm just wondering how it would even be possible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlAYh5Oaho

robwolf666

@CasNation

It's out of Cyrodiil with no boosts from foods or potions.

CasNation

@robwolf666

Okay, let me start by giving you an example of what my stats look like in Cyrodiil. Keep in mind that I play mainly in Azura's Star, so this is without champion points taken into account. This IS with purple food buff though. I play a magicka sorcerer, so the stats will be different than yours, but you can see by the numbers that my stats are simply much higher than yours. All numbers are approximate. All numbers are unbuffed besides from tri stat food.

V16 Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer

Health: 21k
Magicka: 35k
Stamina: 13k

Mag regen: 1400 (this is a bit too high, but I like it for pvp)
Stam regen: 600
Health regen: I don't care

Spell dmg: 2500 with dual swords, 2100 with resto staff
Spell crit: 44% swords, 51% staff.
Weapon damage: don't care
Weapon crit: don't care

Armor and spell resist: both about 12-15k.

5/1/1 light/medium/heavy armor, dual swords and resto staff. All gold.

5 Kagrenacs hope, 4 eyes of Mara, 3 arcane willpower. All gold magicka enchants.

All attribute points in magicka.

Thief Mundus (thinking of switching this).

I won't bother with bars, as you are a NB and I am a sorc, but in short, all of my abilities use magicka.

When buffed up, my spell damage goes up to 3k.

Will follow with a post explaining why these stats are important. Have to get back to work.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Actually, you are just a new player. You won't actually run into "cheaters" if such things exist.

An experienced PVPer will literally faceroll a new player, no matter how good their gear and skill setup is.

CasNation

I realized a lot of what I would cover is consolidated here: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2016-returning-players-thread/

There is some good info here in its own right, as well as links to very helpful threads. Also, go check out the theory crafting subforums on the same site for an idea of what people are running, and what their stats look like.

robwolf666

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

Thelon

robwolf666 wrote: »

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

Accusing good players of cheating is the greatest compliment you can give them

robwolf666

Thelon wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

Accusing good players of cheating is the greatest compliment you can give them

Providing they are actually good players and not cheating, sure.

I mean, I know I'm not brilliant at the game, but there's no way in hell I'm that bad either... Surely if I can solo V16 bosses, I should have a better showing against V16 players. I must've been a sucker for punishment tonight because I must've gone back at least 10 times to try different things, and each time I got twatted with one hit... Someone care to explain how 20k+ health can just disappear with one hit? On top of that, how the f**k can they see me when I'm in stealth?

Skinless_Jerk

robwolf666 wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

Accusing good players of cheating is the greatest compliment you can give them

Providing they are actually good players and not cheating, sure.

I mean, I know I'm not brilliant at the game, but there's no way in hell I'm that bad either... Surely if I can solo V16 bosses, I should have a better showing against V16 players. I must've been a sucker for punishment tonight because I must've gone back at least 10 times to try different things, and each time I got twatted with one hit... Someone care to explain how 20k+ health can just disappear with one hit? On top of that, how the f**k can they see me when I'm in stealth?

they most probably are not cheating but i can feel your anger haha, if they kill you quick then maybe you should set yourself up with a lot more health and sustain - majority of the time those 1 shot builds won't be able to keep trying and trying to kill you after you withstand their initial barrage - then when table are turned and you see them go defensive - POUNCE.

saying this, if those people are small groups or (commonly) even worse part of a large big ass group then you are going to be killed - get used to it, because this game is forever being changed to compliment large groups and take a big wet dump on solo players

CasNation

robwolf666 wrote: »

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

<sigh>...okay, I tried. I'll go ahead and match your attitude instead:

Your stats suck.
Your gear is trash.
Your skill bars are a mess.

Knowing those are your stats and setup, you are nothing but a walking sack of AP to me and anyone else who has an even moderate idea of what they are doing. To anyone with a dedicated gank build? Heck, you are BUILT to be one-shot.

Inarre

I take every tea bag as well earned. That person saw you as enough of a threat to waste their time and stand there making a degrading motion over a corpse. Actually kinda looks like theyre taking a dump.

That said when someone gets zerged down i do love me a teabag just because i think its hilarious when i get owned by a raid of 24 only to get teabagged.

On topic these folks have the right of it. If you choose to persist, in time you too shall improve.

I currently am at rank three teabag holder.

robwolf666

CasNation wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

F**K this one-hit bullS**T, I've had it with PvP already. No way the s**t those people do is just down to build and skill.

Yeah, had another look and gone back to my original line of thought... sue me.

<sigh>...okay, I tried. I'll go ahead and match your attitude instead:

Your stats suck.
Your gear is trash.
Your skill bars are a mess.

Knowing those are your stats and setup, you are nothing but a walking sack of AP to me and anyone else who has an even moderate idea of what they are doing. To anyone with a dedicated gank build? Heck, you are BUILT to be one-shot.

I did look at it, and sadly not all of us are mathematicians, so it's not much use to me there. But whatever, have your secret formulas.