Please fix or change Dragonblood

Aenlir

It is pretty sad that the DK self heal has been useless for months. Really no reason that breath of life which heals two people, outperforms a self heal.

If ZOS is worried about people stacking health, then make one of the morphs scale off magicka with a value similar to breath of life. I don't even main DK, but this issue should really be taken care of. Having no proper self/burst heal in pvp is pretty unacceptable for a "tank" class.

Lynx7386

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Lucius_Aelius

I agree completely, it's ridiculous how useless Dragonblood is in PvP. It wasn't even that good before the nerf for anyone that wasn't a Tank, and although I still use it I mainly just do so for the Healing Taken bonus (Coagulating Blood) and the Passives for having Draconic Power abilities equipped/active, but if there's any power I use in PvP that I'd replace with something else if needed, it'd be Dragonblood (I'm sure I'd be better off swapping it out for something else, but I hold on to it as much as anything because I'm hoping it'll get fixed and be properly useful again, and when I'm almost dead the heal isn't as terrible as it could be).

Lucius_Aelius

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Scaling off health is one of the few things about Dragonblood I still like, and wouldn't want to be changed. Most heals already scale off either Magicka or Stamina, and Tanks deserve a good self-heal that's actually good for them without needing to spec into other resources. God knows Tanks have little enough going for them as it is, and at least in PvE Dragonblood is still just as good as ever, which your suggestion would potentially put a stop to.

Aenlir

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Yeah, the idea of the reverse execute is interesting and is the point of the whole discussion essentially. Mag dk needs something to get out of execute range, when other heals such as burning embers or inhale simply don't cut it.

Aenlir

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Scaling off health is one of the few things about Dragonblood I still like, and wouldn't want to be changed. Most heals already scale off either Magicka or Stamina, and Tanks deserve a good self-heal that's actually good for them without needing to spec into other resources. God knows Tanks have little enough going for them as it is, and at least in PvE Dragonblood is still just as good as ever, which your suggestion would potentially put a stop to.

What about dedicating one of the morphs to work better in pvp, and the leaving the other to function as it currently does (scaling off health).

flguy147ub17_ESO

Agree 100% and also please buff our whip damage, Our class has zero "true" burst damage in PVP really if you are a Magicka DK.

FireCowCommando

Its obvious that it needs to happen, no one doubts that it will happen, theres no reason to not have already fixed it, and everyones confused why it hasn't already happened... so...

No ETA

Ishammael

The LORD ISHAMMAEL demands this change.

Lucius_Aelius

Aenlir wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Scaling off health is one of the few things about Dragonblood I still like, and wouldn't want to be changed. Most heals already scale off either Magicka or Stamina, and Tanks deserve a good self-heal that's actually good for them without needing to spec into other resources. God knows Tanks have little enough going for them as it is, and at least in PvE Dragonblood is still just as good as ever, which your suggestion would potentially put a stop to.

What about dedicating one of the morphs to work better in pvp, and the leaving the other to function as it currently does (scaling off health).

That limits it needlessly though, if they just buffed it back so that it works the way it used to in PvP then it'll be perfect, trying to suggest other ways the ability can/should be changed is trying to fix something that isn't broken. The ability itself is fine (though the visuals on the morphs could do with being more distinct, and frankly I don't like being turned into a giant beating heart at all), the only problem is the effect of Battle Spirit on the ability which should be changed.

And the whole idea of abilities having a PvE morph and a PvP morph is ridiculous and excessively limiting, forcing people to use either one or the other instead of giving people the choice to pick a Morph that suits their playstyle regardless of where they play the most.

Of course some Morphs just by being different from each other will inevitably be better than their alternatives in some or most situations in either PvP or PvE, but that should stay a coincidence and not be done by design. No morph of any ability should ever be considered wrong to use in either PvP or PvE, depending on your Build there should always be an opportunity for every Morph to be good and useful to use.

Aenlir

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Aenlir wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Agreed. There have been numerous proposals for ways to change DB to make it a useful class heal.

My favorites:

1. make it a rapid heal over time like vigor, with green dragonblood being a stamina morph of the ability.
2. Make it a flat heal, scaling with magicka or stamina (for gdb), that gains a bonus based on the percentage of missing health, like a reverse execute: so if you're low on health, it heals for up to X% more.


Also, for the love of stamina dks, make green dragonblood actually green.

Scaling off health is one of the few things about Dragonblood I still like, and wouldn't want to be changed. Most heals already scale off either Magicka or Stamina, and Tanks deserve a good self-heal that's actually good for them without needing to spec into other resources. God knows Tanks have little enough going for them as it is, and at least in PvE Dragonblood is still just as good as ever, which your suggestion would potentially put a stop to.

What about dedicating one of the morphs to work better in pvp, and the leaving the other to function as it currently does (scaling off health).

That limits it needlessly though, if they just buffed it back so that it works the way it used to in PvP then it'll be perfect, trying to suggest other ways the ability can/should be changed is trying to fix something that isn't broken. The ability itself is fine (though the visuals on the morphs could do with being more distinct, and frankly I don't like being turned into a giant beating heart at all), the only problem is the effect of Battle Spirit on the ability which should be changed.

And the whole idea of abilities having a PvE morph and a PvP morph is ridiculous and excessively limiting, forcing people to use either one or the other instead of giving people the choice to pick a Morph that suits their playstyle regardless of where they play the most.

Of course some Morphs just by being different from each other will inevitably be better than their alternatives in some or most situations in either PvP or PvE, but that should stay a coincidence and not be done by design. No morph of any ability should ever be considered wrong to use in either PvP or PvE, depending on your Build there should always be an opportunity for every Morph to be good and useful to use.

Completely agree. It's just like they won't make any change so I would be willing to settle for a compromise if they would put out a usable version of the skill. The fact they ignore this shows how little the devs play of pvp.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Just make skills that scale from health - GDB, dk shield, templar shield, bone shield - unaffected from the 50% reduction through Battle Spirit.

Sugaroverdose

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Just make skills that scale from health - GDB, dk shield, templar shield, bone shield - unaffected from the 50% reduction through Battle Spirit.

I hear trollplars evil laughing all around

Aenlir wrote: »

It is pretty sad that the DK self heal has been useless for months. Really no reason that breath of life which heals two people, outperforms a self heal.

If ZOS is worried about people stacking health, then make one of the morphs scale off magicka with a value similar to breath of life. I don't even main DK, but this issue should really be taken care of. Having no proper self/burst heal in pvp is pretty unacceptable for a "tank" class.

No reason to healers heal is better than self heal? What reason for healer than?

cdobratz

No matter what suggestion you give, there will always be that person that screams "WHAOH I USE THAT MORF RIGHT NOW DONT CHANGE IT"

IMO having a morph that scales off magicka/stamina would be nice. Changing GDB would be optimal since the 20% stam recovery is already something you can get from a pot.

Lucius_Aelius

cdobratz wrote: »

No matter what suggestion you give, there will always be that person that screams "WHAOH I USE THAT MORF RIGHT NOW DONT CHANGE IT"

IMO having a morph that scales off magicka/stamina would be nice. Changing GDB would be optimal since the 20% stam recovery is already something you can get from a pot.

You've already got pretty much every heal in the game doing that though, there's absolutely no need for another, and Tanks need some love too. Also that Stam Recovery can be gotten through potions, but without GDB you'll be forced to use potions to get that and won't have any choice about it, which is a flat-out nerf to a lot of people.

And that's a cop-out to just say "people will be angry no matter what so just give me what I want and screw those guys," because yeah there will always be someone unhappy with any change, but you're asking to change one of the only Heals that scale off health to be just like every other Heal. Well guess what, you've got every other Heal to choose from (and DK's do have access to some), leave our one unique heal alone and stop suggesting ways to fix things that aren't broken just because you'd like it better and don't care about what other people think.

Aenlir

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Just make skills that scale from health - GDB, dk shield, templar shield, bone shield - unaffected from the 50% reduction through Battle Spirit.

I hear trollplars evil laughing all around

Aenlir wrote: »

It is pretty sad that the DK self heal has been useless for months. Really no reason that breath of life which heals two people, outperforms a self heal.

If ZOS is worried about people stacking health, then make one of the morphs scale off magicka with a value similar to breath of life. I don't even main DK, but this issue should really be taken care of. Having no proper self/burst heal in pvp is pretty unacceptable for a "tank" class.

No reason to healers heal is better than self heal? What reason for healer than?

Templars are not supposed to be the only "healer" class. That's why there is a resto skill line. And Templars are not always healers either. The point is breath of life heals two people and Dragonblood only heals one, so there is no logic to having bol vastly outperform it. Also not everyone in pvp has a pocket healer all the time...

Having a skill that just is completely useless in pvp is bad game design period, especially when it used to be a core skill for the dk class.

Gottbeard

I still say the easiest way to fix this is to make missing health and max health % BASED heals ignore the battle spirit penalty to healing. You could even classify them as something other than healing as a band aid work around. That would lock out building into healing done/received, BUT at least it wouldn't have ridiculously ineffective cost to heal ratios right out of the box.

Lucius_Aelius

Gottbeard wrote: »

I still say the easiest way to fix this is to make missing health and max health % BASED heals ignore the battle spirit penalty to healing. You could even classify them as something other than healing as a band aid work around. That would lock out building into healing done/received, BUT at least it wouldn't have ridiculously ineffective cost to heal ratios right out of the box.

Not a bad thought entirely, at least not with PvP in mind, but that screws up PvE where it already works perfectly and the Healing Taken increases are put to good use, if they changed it like you said it would be buffing it somewhat in PvP but Nerfing it pretty hard in PvE.

Aenlir

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

I still say the easiest way to fix this is to make missing health and max health % BASED heals ignore the battle spirit penalty to healing. You could even classify them as something other than healing as a band aid work around. That would lock out building into healing done/received, BUT at least it wouldn't have ridiculously ineffective cost to heal ratios right out of the box.

Not a bad thought entirely, at least not with PvP in mind, but that screws up PvE where it already works perfectly and the Healing Taken increases are put to good use, if they changed it like you said it would be buffing it somewhat in PvP but Nerfing it pretty hard in PvE.

They can simply remove the battle spirit debuff on the skill and see how it plays out.

Lucius_Aelius

Aenlir wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

I still say the easiest way to fix this is to make missing health and max health % BASED heals ignore the battle spirit penalty to healing. You could even classify them as something other than healing as a band aid work around. That would lock out building into healing done/received, BUT at least it wouldn't have ridiculously ineffective cost to heal ratios right out of the box.

Not a bad thought entirely, at least not with PvP in mind, but that screws up PvE where it already works perfectly and the Healing Taken increases are put to good use, if they changed it like you said it would be buffing it somewhat in PvP but Nerfing it pretty hard in PvE.

They can simply remove the battle spirit debuff on the skill and see how it plays out.

That would be my preference for sure.

Ghost-Shot

They don't need to make any changes to the skill like making it a HoT or anything, it just needs to not be hit by battlespirit. No ability that is bast on a percentage of MISSING health should be effected by the debuff.

Wollust

It's insane that this skill has been crap since september 2015 and they still haven't bothered with it.
@Wrobel I think it's time you give us back our self heal and maybe start thinking a bit more before you put a global bandaid fix in place. You might have noticed by now that these "solutions" create only more problems.

Roymachine

Aenlir wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Just make skills that scale from health - GDB, dk shield, templar shield, bone shield - unaffected from the 50% reduction through Battle Spirit.

I hear trollplars evil laughing all around

Aenlir wrote: »

It is pretty sad that the DK self heal has been useless for months. Really no reason that breath of life which heals two people, outperforms a self heal.

If ZOS is worried about people stacking health, then make one of the morphs scale off magicka with a value similar to breath of life. I don't even main DK, but this issue should really be taken care of. Having no proper self/burst heal in pvp is pretty unacceptable for a "tank" class.

No reason to healers heal is better than self heal? What reason for healer than?

Templars are not supposed to be the only "healer" class. That's why there is a resto skill line. And Templars are not always healers either. The point is breath of life heals two people and Dragonblood only heals one, so there is no logic to having bol vastly outperform it. Also not everyone in pvp has a pocket healer all the time...

Having a skill that just is completely useless in pvp is bad game design period, especially when it used to be a core skill for the dk class.

Soon nobody will have one. LOS changes are going to cause a stupid amount of problems.

BlackMadara

So I do believe it was my suggestion people are referring to about giving it a flat heal. Some made a good point about the importance of keeping its scaling with HP however, which I agreed to. Also, having a single skill unaffected by battle spirit isn't a good idea, neither is having health scaling abilities all unaffected by battle spirit.

So my suggestion is have a flat amount scaled to max HP. Then have the heal increase by up 300% based on missing HP. Probably have the base amount be 10%-20% max HP based on a my balance issues. This keeps the HP scaling, eases the battle spirit nerf, keeps its niche as an anti execute heal, and should make it perform better than breath of life at execute range.

Wing

agreed, this skills has been unused and made redundant for far too long. fix it or replace it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Battle spirit shouldn't affect health % based heals and shields. At minimum, reduce the effect to 25% from 50%.

DONE

Bone shield fixed. Blazing shield fixed. Dragon Blood fixed.

Vanzen

Totally useless skill I havent been using for ages.
Thats not normal that a skill so important in the past has been so uterly broken.
Its part of DK arsenal and should be taken care of one way or an other.
Period.

flguy147ub17_ESO

Naw they want to us to use a Resto staff for a decent heal. Not sure many players rolled a DK originally to use a freaking resto staff. Stam DKs can get Vigor WITHOUT forcing them to use a certain weapon. But magicka DKs HAVE to use a Resto staff for a decent heal. Complete BS.

Aenlir

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Please look into this, clearly DK players are not happy with the state of this ability and haven't been for a long time.

Bowser

I don't like the Major Fortitude portion because it simply doesn't provide much benefit, even on builds that stack health regen. It would be much better if it added a percentage of max health or max stat as health regen instead.

Just 3% of 30k is 900 health every few seconds, which is unaffected by battle spirit.

DUTCH_REAPER

Remember back in the day in pvp...when you were a few points away from death on your DK ...but then you pop GDB.

It was beautiful man.