GvG time!!!!!!!! Game modes and details!!!

manny254

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

Rylana

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Cormore

There have been changes to the 12v12 non grouped mode. Also to the CTF mode is being disused. Ty for feedback

Keiryan

One thing I would be open to is having an open tournament... anyone can show up and we can have it playground style, group leads would get teamed with random groups of 12 or whatever instead of GvG, this would be beneficial for recruitment or starting of new guilds and would introduce newer players to organized combat

KenaPKK

Keiryan wrote: »

One thing I would be open to is having an open tournament... anyone can show up and we can have it playground style, group leads would get teamed with random groups of 12 or whatever instead of GvG, this would be beneficial for recruitment or starting of new guilds and would introduce newer players to organized combat

Now that is a good idea. Give it two weeks of planning and heavy publicizing, and this could be not only highly educational for participants and good for the game, but also a hell of a lot of fun. I could see this becoming a weekly event attracting a lot of participation...

I am going to think on this.

KenaPKK

Regarding the concern surrounding terrain, I think if you were to hold the battles around simple structures it wouldn't be so bad. A single good sized rock to climb around on or a couple of farm houses to maneuver around would make things so much more interesting than open field fights, at least in my opinion. Besides, organized groups in a formal GvG event should be able to refrain from using excessive "run like hell around the rock" tactics.

You could also place boundaries around the designated fighting area, like out of bounds in sports, although imo that's excessive.

DUTCH_REAPER

Awesome! Thanks for setting it up!

Keiryan

Would be willing to put money down that I can wrangle a group of random better than anyone else. Team Keiryan

MaximillianDiE

Keiryan wrote: »

Would be willing to put money down that I can wrangle a group of random better than anyone else. Team Keiryan

Careful K - you'll get called a guild-wrecker again lol

manny254

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

PhatGrimReaper

Keiryan wrote: »

One thing I would be open to is having an open tournament... anyone can show up and we can have it playground style, group leads would get teamed with random groups of 12 or whatever instead of GvG, this would be beneficial for recruitment or starting of new guilds and would introduce newer players to organized combat

This sounds pretty cool

Rylana

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

PhatGrimReaper

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

....if you are attacking him on a rock..... wouldn't you both gain the benefit of this desync? ...... so, there is no addition advantage to either party right?

Rylana

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

....if you are attacking him on a rock..... wouldn't you both gain the benefit of this desync? ...... so, there is no addition advantage to either party right?

Whoever at that particular time has the favorable connection (the one appearing faster to the server, not always due to distance or internet speed either) would be the only one enjoying the results, with the other locked perpetually behind.

PhatGrimReaper

Rylana wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

....if you are attacking him on a rock..... wouldn't you both gain the benefit of this desync? ...... so, there is no addition advantage to either party right?

Whoever at that particular time has the favorable connection (the one appearing faster to the server, not always due to distance or internet speed either) would be the only one enjoying the results, with the other locked perpetually behind.

So, how do I target people with a less favourable connection? This would be useful...

manny254

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

"Rock Players"



Edit: Wait wait wait!!! Everyone slow down a second.

Did someone just say that ESO favors moving? Are we playing the same game?

Ara_Valleria

Rylana wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

....if you are attacking him on a rock..... wouldn't you both gain the benefit of this desync? ...... so, there is no addition advantage to either party right?

Whoever at that particular time has the favorable connection (the one appearing faster to the server, not always due to distance or internet speed either) would be the only one enjoying the results, with the other locked perpetually behind.

During server crippling lag, there will be no difference between rocks or plain field.
Gap closers stop working, abilities stop firing, abilities stop registering, health gets desyncd.
Severe hitbox detection latency and hit registry latency will happen regardless of where you fight when there is such lag.

Solution : Don't hold the tourney during prime time or near keeps or on high pop campaigns.

Vlastarus is a good location for the GvG.
Simple terrain, no elevation variations.
Lots of structures.
Away from major keeps.

Certain areas in IC can be good too.

vortexman11

The 12v12 ungrouped challenge should be in Underpall cave with all players starting in random locations. I have no clue how this would be judged or how you'd clear the cave out of PvE mobs but... you know what this idea is silly I think I'll just stop

Mako1132

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

ult dump -> spread -> repeat is so boring.
Do it at the village outside Aleswell or somewhere with a bit of terrain to make it interesting.
CTF at Faregyl Farm anyone?
King of the hill on Whitefall mountain?
Be creative.

I agree. Organized open field battle don't sound that interesting this patch, but good terrain would be a whole different story. Without rapids I just see it as a cluster **** of snares/roots.

I am a little confused about the group size. There is only a mention of 12 v 12, but it is worded as if there is other sizes.

The thing about terrain/LOS is youll get that group of players that hillhumps and exploits latency lag to be virtually unhittable, especially when coupled with shuffle dodging. Its one of the cheesiest tactics, people cant be killed even by massive numbers when doing that. Its a major reason the rocks behind Arrius Mine and the Alessia Bridge are such hotspots for the people that do it, it gives a bunch of artificial LOS check immunity to a lot of otherwise valid attacks, just because of slight grade/slope variations.

I mean youve been there yourself, you know what I mean. Its why most gvgs happen in open field, otherwise people would just hillhump and it gets dumb.

Exploits latency? 0_o

So what does any of that have to do with a group v group battle? For one who would ever suggest we fight in those areas? I meant something like one of the town's ghost shot mentioned. Terrain is a huge part of open world, and structured PVP. With the change to rapids I just personally feel that completely open terrain would not be that fun. Last patch I would have no problem with it, but every other skill in this game snares.

Also any information on group battles under 12?

Any latency/ping difference between two clients results in a short window where a hitbox on the attackers screen does not correspond with where the hitbox is to the defender. For whatever reason, ESO favors the defender and moving (especially in non-optimal situations such as globally high ping rates) results in periods of complete invulnerability around pieces of LOS.

Basically, id go to hit you, for example, because you appear to me to be in attack distance, open. But on your end youre behind a rock and the server has not yet registered that information to me yet.

Its a syncing problem, and a lot of rock players know it and use it.

....if you are attacking him on a rock..... wouldn't you both gain the benefit of this desync? ...... so, there is no addition advantage to either party right?

Whoever at that particular time has the favorable connection (the one appearing faster to the server, not always due to distance or internet speed either) would be the only one enjoying the results, with the other locked perpetually behind.

During server crippling lag, there will be no difference between rocks or plain field.
Gap closers stop working, abilities stop firing, abilities stop registering, health gets desyncd.
Severe hitbox detection latency and hit registry latency will happen regardless of where you fight when there is such lag.

Solution : Don't hold the tourney during prime time or near keeps or on high pop campaigns.

Vlastarus is a good location for the GvG.
Simple terrain, no elevation variations.
Lots of structures.
Away from major keeps.

Certain areas in IC can be good too.

I forget the name of where EU had their matches. The place with the fountain and walls around it. Not sure if that's what you mean, but that was fun to watch (from what you could see, was hard on the spectator). Anything with houses should probably not be allowed, or just disallow going in a house. It'd be pretty bad to just see a group hold a super choke at a doorway.

Some fights between all three factions at once could be cool too.

For numbers, why not just bring what you have. If you want to bring a group of 8 post in the thread so people know, and at the event if there's other groups with the same amount or more (some could be willing to scale down), you could get some fights in like that.

Cormore

For 8v8 i need to know if you plan on coming there to play. We have limited judges and volunteers to help put things in order as of who's next and fighting. If people just show up its a massive cluster and not everyone will be able to fight. Some groups will fight way more then others and wouldn't be fare.

As far as lag we choose dragon claw b/c its far away from the inner keeps. Also hardly anyone goes there to fight or take the keep. Plus having the fights in the snow for a change would be really nice.

Master_Kas

Hope someone streams/records this so we from the other side of the lake can watch it

Cormore

3rd event has been changed. Still looking for 2 judges to help out. Preferably from ep and ad.

Scamandros

Cormore wrote: »

... Some groups will fight way more then others and wouldn't be fare.

I think everything will b rk

AlphaRahl

Please add Requiem - DC to the list. We'll be there

Rickter

Requiem you know? Aka the original requiem. Lets go!

Cormore

Awesome! Be nice to get another ep group to come now

Philthyorc

What time are you aiming for it to end ?

Rylana

Rickter wrote: »

Requiem you know? Aka the original requiem. Lets go!

Battle for the naming rights? lel, poor dutchess

Cormore

Philthyorc wrote: »

What time are you aiming for it to end ?

After we finish the events. I hope to have a hour for each event. So maybe 12 est or 11 if we go though this quickly. We plan to have everyone fight each other in the end in the village below dragon claw.

Rylana

We really need another EP guild to sign up for this, as it stands DR has to face four groups, whereas everyone else has to face 3.

>_> Dont mind personally but we are gonna be busy as hell.