No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent.

kargen27

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

I think alliance change just once should be allowed, or at least be able to join in group and do areas such as Wrothgar and Craglorn but alas I doubt that will come before I can get another char levelled up on the alliance I want.

I would like to have the option after completing gold to choose which alliance I then want to join. Pick a starting alliance for new character then after experiencing all each alliance has to offer choose which one I want to associate with.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Kargen, now this I do fully agree with, TBH.

newtinmpls

Sogreth wrote: »

I seriously don't understand the thinking of some of you people. Why are you arguing this? Why are you up in arms about cosmetic changes? Does it ruin your RP experience or immersion that other players want to change their hairstyles? Key words: other players

What point is there to actually argue about this? It has ZERO effect on your gameplay.

I've been thinking about this.

What difference do I think it would make? How do I think it would effect someone's gameplay? If the person was up in arms enough to quit over it what would my reaction be?

I think that technically on the surface, @Sogreth does have a point in that overtly it shouldn't/wouldn't effect the gameplay of anyone else.

But in the same way that IC was designed to encourage ganker's (and it does) - and I find that a flaw in ESO - I do think that choices like these, and commitment that is supported or ... unsupported? Is that a thing?

The ES storylines are based on being heroes. Good guys. An MMORPG is based on player-player interaction.

I think that things/aspects/consequences that support/encourage mature gameplay encourage a positive experience and community. I think that things/aspect/consequences that support/encourage immature gameplay work against a positive experience and community.

I dislike "gimmie" changes, because they encourage immature (and highly potentially unkind gameplay). For the same reason I dislike "negative" options in game; achievements for killing, rewards for ganking and so on.

The more likely a choice/commitment in game is to be permanent/require commitment/support maturity, the more I will like it, because the more it will contribute positively to the community, the feel of the game, the zone chat, the patience of randoms when grouping for a delve.

I realize that others will disagree.

I just thought I would attempt to answer the question.

leshpar

The only thing I wish I could change (but fully understand why I can't) is my faction. I love everything about my character, but after playing the game for an extended period of time I have come to realize that I feel the daggerfall covenant should be my faction, not ebonheart pact.

Mojmir

alliance change-totally justified,your a traitor
race change-wtf cares what race a character changed it too,chances are theyre covered in armor and you wouldnt know anyways unless they told you.
gender change-wtf cares see,it doesnt change anything about the game,AT ALL!!!
class change-wtf cares its not your character or game thats changing,its someone elses.

aisriyth_ESO

Serenityx wrote: »

Class/race change will not and should not ever be inplemented in any MMO. Also, with DB you literally will be able to play every stupid little race and class ZOS has *** out for us much easier. Your entire argument about race/class seems moot saying as "re-rolling" will be incredibly ez.

Will not? Race changes are pretty much common place this days in any 'triple a' mmo, including many that are not triple a.

Race changes i think are fine.

Faction changes, sure...but i rather it be a lengthy quest in game that can only be done maybe once every 3 months or so.

Class changes, no.

Elder_III

Choices in life have consequences.

Sid Meir said nearly 30 years ago "Games should be a series of interesting choices." Choices that are permanent have immediate and long lasting consequences and are vastly more interesting then choices that you can change any time you wish. I like Waffles for my breakfast --- I do not like Waffles for my games.

/disagreed

phairdon

Unsure whether race change is common in MMO's as I only play one other. Guess what? No race change or class change, unless a player creates an alt. They do let you buy appearance changes though.

Artis

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Your choices should matter. Maybe ZOS could add a barber shop if only in the Crown Store I would be okay with it.

But changing race/Alliance/ or Class should require REROLLING!

Just because your class is not the "Flavor of the month" does not mean you should be able to change over to the OP class of the month sorry.

Why the tusk should they matter? We have enough of this crap in real life. We play games to escape reality and have some rest. Well some of us do, so let choices matter for you and not matter for us. You won't be forced to change name/race/class whatever and can enjoy the consequences of your choices. Why should other be forced to?

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, I think it is indeed bloody stupid to invest 500+ hours playing a class you do not want to play. Nobody forced you to do that. So why did you? And why do Zeni has to do something, because you decided to do such a stupid thing? Sorry, but what keeps you clinging to a character you do not like?

Above all, are you sure you will be happy with a class change? Why? Have you tried it? ... If so, why not play that character instead? If not, please remember there is no "I win" button, please stop asking for one.

Wtf are you talking about? You don't know if you want to play a class or not until you reach endgame and play it for a while. You can't say you don't want unless you invest hundreds of hours first.

Not to mention that it gets boring playing the same thing for years and sometimes a player wants to try another class just because he got bored. But a character is his avatar and that name is already taken. And it would be dumb and not cool to require that player to invest another 500+ hours just to understand if he likes that class in endgame.

Duiwel wrote: »

I have created more chars and deleted more chars than most of you combined believe me... That's why up until 19 Dec 2015 my highest lvl char was still only level 21 or 22. The point is if you don't like what you have made make a new main. That's what MMO's like.

You can't possibly know if you like him or not until you unlock all the skills and max passives and try it in the endgame against others.

Sallington

God forbid your choices matter in an RPG.

ThomasIII

Starting over on a new character is not really that bad, but loosing the bag space, mount training and months of trait research is hard to do. A second account may be a viable option if you have the time. Would really be nice if mounts and bag space stayed with the slot and not the character. ThomasIII

Eshelmen

Cross Faction play destroys any point in having factions to begin with!

Junkogen

For the "choices should matter" crowd, any option for players to change race/appearance/whatever has no affect on your game and your choices. If you want to play the game super serious and have your choices matter, no one is stopping you. However, I don't believe choices should matter in a game and right now my playstyle is not supported. In fact, the devs redesign game mechanics every patch and prove that choices don't matter to them. They redo, adjust, and change their choices constantly on a whim without regard to my choices, in fact invalidating many of my character choices. So why shouldn't I be able to counter what the developers do and rebalance my character which they screwed up? Choices already don't matter in this game due to how the devs keep instituting seismic changes at all levels of gameplay. It's just that now we get screwed over because of the choices we made when our options were completely different when the game launched compared to now.

BlitzGirl41

An option to even change cosmetic aspects (that won't cost an arm or a leg) should at least be implemented. The other choices, if they could be a one-time option, would be good as well.

And I agree, it is silly to hear people continuously say "Just reroll!" because, as other people have mentioned here, this game takes quite a lot of time and effort to get to a point where you know if you are satisfied with your toon or not. Whereas in games such as WoW or GW2, you can get to the same point on a toon in far less time, so rerolling isn't as much of an issue.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Regarding OP: "No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent." I disagree. Race and sex should be permanent; everything else should be changeable.

newtinmpls

Artis wrote: »

You don't know if you want to play a class or not until you reach endgame and play it for a while. You can't say you don't want unless you invest hundreds of hours first.

<snip>

You can't possibly know if you like him or not until you unlock all the skills and max passives and try it in the endgame against others.

I find this an interesting idea.

And kind of a silly one. It's an MMO; the skills/passives/options are subject to change and even if you like this iteration of this character - the next one will be different.

As for "against others" and "endgame" not everyone is a min-max PvP'er, however even so the really creative ones of those type of players will come up with creative (yeah, everyone saw that coming) combinations of skills/passives/gear/CP that will do well.

On a related note, people who later in life are diagnosed as sociopaths or psychopaths appear to have an inability to "play" s compared to others. And by "play" in this context I mean a light-hearted joyful, minimally goal oriented interaction with others and "toys" of some kind in combination that requires use of imagination.

Just a thought

waterfairy

A crown store name change has been datamined and they're working on an overpriced way to alter your characters appearance.

I think we should get 1 free chance to alter our character before leaving the starter house/boat because they look different in game then in the character creation menu.

ArchMikem

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Regarding OP: "No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent." I disagree. Race and sex should be permanent; everything else should be changeable.

Agreed. People using the face changer woman in ES:V isn't appropriate. It was a singleplayer game, it's okay cause everything you did was just for yourself.

Korah_Eaglecry

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

The one thing I absolutely hate in this game is how once you've made your character, there are a few crucial choices that you're not allowed to return to.

• You come to regret the race you've chosen later down the line? "reroll [Snip]".
• Your character has a goofy hairstyle? "Lol, just roll an alt".
• Your class gets screwed over in the most recent update and you want to play as a different one? "start a new character."
• Your character's name no longer appeals to you? "Just make a new one!"
• Your friends are all in a different alliance and you want to play with them outside of a group delve or trial? "REROLL!"

Every time someone suggests an alliance change, a class change, or even a race change or the ability to re-customise your character, they're pounced on by a ton of people telling them to reroll and move on.

"It's an MMO, people are supposed to have more than one character."

Who cares if it's an MMO? That doesn't automatically mean that it needs to be like every other MMO. Even if we're "supposed" to have more than one character, under no circumstances should it be mandatory to start an entirely new one in order to change just one thing about it.

So here, I've provided reasons why we should be allowed to change each aspect of our characters without being forced to reroll.

Appearance

If we want to change our character's name, hairstyle, or gender (things that don't affect gameplay in the slightest I might add) we should not be forced to start the whole game again purely so we can create the exact same character as our current one with one minor alteration.

Alliance

Being able to change a character's alliance cold turkey might be a little much, but there is no reason to be against cross-alliance play outside of dungeons.

With regards to Alliance, it might be difficult to implement cross-alliance play in all areas, but there have been literally tons of suggestions on the matter in these forums, and quite a few that I've seen would be preferable to what we have now ("Roll an alt or you'll only be able to play with your friends in a series of repetitive linear dungeons").

Oh, and to those idiots that keep whining "lorebreaking", don't forget that the Light of Meridia we currently have breaks the lore in exactly the same way. If your first reaction after reading that was to jump to the light's defense in anyway ("BUT IT'S MAGIC!!1!"), then I'd like to point out that all ZOS has to do to make cross-alliance play lore-friendly is to slap a similar explanation onto it. You don't like that, you can shut your hypocritical pie hole.

Race

Race shouldn't be too much of a stretch either. Regrettably, the people yelling "lorebreaking" are still present for this one, so I'll just quickly remind them that we live in a fantasy world where magic exists and move on. To those who think this would make the game unbalanced, it wouldn't. Race has relatively little impact on a character's playstyle, and people should be able to make their character any race they want it to be.

[bClass[/b]

This is the one people seem to find the most controversial as it has the biggest impact on gameplay. I've taken the time to summarise the biggest complaints here:

• It's lorebreaking
• It would unbalance the game, everyone would flock to the class that was deemed the best in that current update.
• I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!

For the group that use the first argument, no. We know next to nothing about these classes and how they get their abilities or where their magic comes from. Prior to this game, they did not exist in TES canon. Regarding these classes, there is no lore to break.

For the group that use the second argument, it's a valid concern, but we already have systems in place to allow players to rechoose their skill and attribute points. You can even cure Vampirism and Lycanthropy! These are both things things that NPCs in the TES universe fret over constantly, but the player is allowed to go back on a huge decision like this for the sake of convenience.
If I wanted I could switch from a dual wielding DPS to a staff wielding mage. It'd cost me a pretty penny in gold, but I'd certainly be able to do it. Considering we can already do this, why not go the extra mile and allow people to change classes?
In the event that everybody does flock to one class, it'd be because of a severe inbalance that would need addressing. If ZOS monitored the feature, they could use it to collect data and improve the game. Do you hear me? This could actually be a good thing!

For the group that use the third argument, you're in the wrong game. ESO is supposed to evolve, not stay in the same state forever. If it did, it'd get old and boring real fast.

"If people could change everything about their character, they'd only ever need one!"

Not true. I mean, it would be if changing these things was super easy, but it doesn't need to be. Putting any kind of difficulty and inconvenience in front of things like this will be enough to deter most players (i.e. the people who just want to abuse it) unless the thing they're looking to change is really important to them.

Conclusion

No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent. I don't believe that the game would be made inherently worse by at least making changes like this possible.
Instead of insisting that people reroll when they make a mistake during character creation, support them in their quest to attract ZOS' attention. In the end, it's up to them whether or not changes are made to the game.

[Edit for censor bypass]

This is all pure opinion. Not a bit of it is fact.

Anhedonie

Race and alliance choice should be permanent.

Artis

Anhedonie wrote: »

Race and alliance choice should be permanent.

Why? There can be traitors who change alliances. There can be magical race changes (we had a couple of quests featuring that, actually).

WreckfulAbandon

If being able to change anything wasn't a thing at launch why on earth would it be now? Vet ranks are gone, it's easier than ever to reroll.

And I deleted a max lv character about a year ago because I grew to hate his name, so I have experienced first-hand the frustration of not being where you want to be in the game.

Deal with it and move on. It might build character

Edit: I am fine with name changes, barbershop, maybe even class changes, but race is just too much imo.

TARAFRAKA

So confused that all of you who seem to care about how I play the game I paid for without any attachment to any of you whatsoever unless I choose are so upset by race change.
In other news, RACE CHANGE IN Q3 HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED!

WreckfulAbandon

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

So confused that all of you who seem to care about how I play the game I paid for without any attachment to any of you whatsoever unless I choose are so upset by race change.
In other news, RACE CHANGE IN Q3 HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED!

Who's getting upset? I just think it's dumb, I'm glad some ppl will enjoy it though.

Curtdogg47

I spent a good deal of time planning before I stated playing. And with the removal of Vet ranks it's now more easy to level a second toon to 50. As for things like hair that should be changeable. As well as names should be changeable. Alliance could be for a price, and to be marked for a short time as traitor! Maybe a quest or two to prove yourself to remove the mark.

shadowwraith666

i agree with the OP

Name/race/sex change - yep

alliance chance - Oblivion and Skyrim had no fixed alliances or faction loyalty

Hairstyle, face/body paint, adornments change - this should be available in-game already as it has no effect on anything in the game, it's purely cosmetic

Class change - Previous TES games had no Fixed classes, Morrowind and oblivion had class templates that could be used as a starting point or you could make up your own custom class.

however an alternative to the class change is the ability to unlock skill lines from other classes, ZOS has already added the lycanthropy and vampirism skill-line unlocks via the crown store, the others could be added in the same way.

DaveMoeDee

I won't purchase any of those changes, but I support all of them being available in the crown store. I am all for ZOS getting money from stuff like that. Profitable is good.

DaveMoeDee

kongkim wrote: »

Let me guss. 99% of the people in here never play Hardcore in other games or play survival games.

Choices need to matter.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Sogreth wrote: »

I seriously don't understand the thinking of some of you people. Why are you arguing this? Why are you up in arms about cosmetic changes? Does it ruin your RP experience or immersion that other players want to change their hairstyles? Key words: other players

What point is there to actually argue about this? It has ZERO effect on your gameplay.

I've been thinking about this.

What difference do I think it would make? How do I think it would effect someone's gameplay? If the person was up in arms enough to quit over it what would my reaction be?

I think that technically on the surface, @Sogreth does have a point in that overtly it shouldn't/wouldn't effect the gameplay of anyone else.

But in the same way that IC was designed to encourage ganker's (and it does) - and I find that a flaw in ESO - I do think that choices like these, and commitment that is supported or ... unsupported? Is that a thing?

The ES storylines are based on being heroes. Good guys. An MMORPG is based on player-player interaction.

I think that things/aspects/consequences that support/encourage mature gameplay encourage a positive experience and community. I think that things/aspect/consequences that support/encourage immature gameplay work against a positive experience and community.

I dislike "gimmie" changes, because they encourage immature (and highly potentially unkind gameplay). For the same reason I dislike "negative" options in game; achievements for killing, rewards for ganking and so on.

The more likely a choice/commitment in game is to be permanent/require commitment/support maturity, the more I will like it, because the more it will contribute positively to the community, the feel of the game, the zone chat, the patience of randoms when grouping for a delve.

I realize that others will disagree.

I just thought I would attempt to answer the question.

That is a stretch. I doubt anyone who tries to create an argument explaining how people who want to be able to change hairstyles are immature or unkind.

Sounds like you have a gut dislike for something and are trying to fabricate some moral argument to justify your feelings.

Dradhok

I've said it before, if ZOS can make money off something you may want, it will probably be available in the Crown Store soon.

Tandor

I wonder if it's the case that players who roll characters want their choices to be permanent, while players who roll toons want their choices to be flexible? Just a thought !

I have no issue with such flexibility provided that it comes at a substantial price as I'm sure the revenue will help the game. There are limits, however, and for me race change is wrong and class change not even something to consider. Appearance, gender, and name are all things I don't have an issue with - at the right price. Alliance only matters to me for the story as I don't PvP, and with One Tamriel it's not entirely clear what significance an initial alliance choice will have. From a PvP perspective, however, while I respect the better judgement of those involved in it I can see sense in an argument that your alliance should be irredeemably fixed the moment you enter your first campaign.