Min/Max and Hybrid Classes

xblackroxe

TheShadowScout wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

What is weong with min/maxing?
There will always be min/maxing as people want to be the best in what they do (many not all). It doesn't matter if there are softcaps or hybridbuilds will somehow be viable or whatever comes there will always be a "best" (in terms of dps, tanking, healing) way to make a build and people will find it for certain.

Not sure there is something wrong with it per se... I -personally- think its wrong that it is the most effective way to get through a game. But as I mentioned, it is a personal opinion of mine. I would like it when characters that put all their skill points in magica never made it past one stage of a dungeon that required people to have some health at least. I would like it is people who had put it all in stamina could not get past one magic lock that required at least a single point "wasted" on magica or something like that.
In that spirit, I would love it if the game system favored balanced builds over min/maxxed ones.
It doesn't. Not by a wide margin.
But again, that's me. Others may love to min/max their builds.

I also dislike it if there is one "best" build - I much prefer is if different builds have different strengths and weaknesses. And if the content is done in a way that requires different strengths at different points, to make it interesting for every flavor of build.
Again, that's me. Others may prefer if they can build a hammer character, and then go encounter only nail type quests for the rest of their game lives...

I see your opinion. But you are missunderstanding min/maxing. Even if you had a magicka check or whatever form of a check that wouldn´t change a thing.
The only way to not have ONE best build is only give you excatly one make it so that everything do the same which is exactly the opposite of diversity.
And glass cannon builds have weaknesses you just don´t see it because most content is easy else you will see who know how to deal with stuff and who doesnt.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Double Post

The_Great_Maldini

Firerock2 wrote: »

BRING BACK SOFTCAPS

Simma Down Now

nimander99

I play a Hybrid character, cause 'Play your way'. So I play my way.

Tavore1138

I didn't think I would but I do miss soft caps for some things - the problem was they had soft caps for everything be in resource pools, damage, regen or armour and they took them off all at once... whereas if they'd only removed the ones that actually annoyed people then they'd have a more interesting game IMO.

binho

I totally agree with OP idea of being able to choose 1 or 2 of the racial passives.
This would allow some diversity and using different builds...

susmitds

MasterSpatula wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

This ship sailed a long time ago. The game was built to encourage hybrid builds, but min/maxers just went straight for for pure builds, and the complaints of how Stamina builds weren't viable and Magica builds were overpowered began approximately the moment the first player got into the game.

ZOS listened, and ever since they've been trying and failing to balance two distinct styles that were never intended to exist.

They've invested far too much time and effort in trying to correct their failure to anticipate how people would actually play the game. They can't turn back now.

EDIT: In case that sounded really down on ZOS, I blame the players more on this one. We had a chance at something innovative, but the short-sighted need to maximize power ruined it.

Yeah you're right those idiot who players that like to play the game different than you definitely destroyed the game. I alwaS have to laugh at such comments like yours. Thinking that your way to play is the only reasonable one. LOL
Its still an mmo people will always try to be the best at what they are doing. And thats not a bad thing.

Whoooah, slow down there, buddy. You've made some rather extreme leaps in your logic there. I wouldn't say it's completely unreasonable to draw the conclusions you drew from what I said--it's more like "spectacularly unlikely" or "somewhat unhinged."

ZOS resisted adding in a death recap and giving us access to hard numbers of how much damage we were doing for a reason. They had a cool idea, a notion of getting away from the min/max paradigm that was so popular in so many MMO but was completely offputting for a lot of potential customers. And why not? It's not like people who were into min/max didn't have every other game on the market to play if that's what they wanted.

The players rejected it.

You think it was a good choice. I think it was maybe a good choice, maybe a bad choice. I lean a little to the "bad choice" side, because I'm intrigued by what the game could have been. That disagreement is fine. But:

Thinking that your way to play is the only reasonable one. LOL

Not gonna say that conclusion is 100% on you, but it's in the high 90s.

Back on topic, I'll just repeat what I said before: Interesting ideas, but far too late. The game's going in the opposite direction now, for better or for worse.

The so called pre-1.6 hybrids were just magicka builds with occasional weapons use. Stamina builds who did the same were much inferior.

failkiwib16_ESO

For group pve = hybrids are good as 2 roles, often tank/heal or tank/dd or heal/dd.
For pvp = hybrids are good as damage dealers and support roles, as long as you kill more than you die.

1. Benefits of hybrids: more utility leading to better survial in various circumstances.
2. Downsides of hybrids: less dps/heal output.

1. Benefits of dedicated builds: high heal/dps output.
2. Downsides of dedicated builds: less utility, leading to lower survival in various circumstances.

You can't have it all.

Pre 1.6 patch softcap era of ESO was not more hybrid friendly, in fact they were less hybrid friendly. I've played since pre-release of the game, and honestly I remember how problematic hybrids and stamina builds were back then. Not to mention that all class abilities back then were magicka based, attribute points and armor enchantments gave less for stamina than magicka.