Nord and Argonian damage buffs

Armann

I was reading @Armitas excellent suggestion to buff Nord passives I thought I'd add something to it, but I decided to make a new thread since it includes Argonians.

Nords and Argonians are not competitive in the current game where DPS is king, what we need is to bring them up to par. My suggestion is simple and is based on the single type damage buff granted to Dunmer, 7% fire damage.

Nord: +7% Physical damage.
Argonian: +7% Poison/Disease damage.

Silver_Strider

While this would help somewhat alleviate the discrepancy between Nords and Argonians from the the races, it wouldn't be enough of a buff to make them competitive DPS.

The extra stats other races have towards magic and stamina is just too great of an advantage over the current racials that Nords and Argonian have as they only have increases in health which doesn't help a DPS playstyle much. The only reason Dunmer are a great race for Magic DK is because they have a 9% increase in magic on top of that extra Fire damage, not just the extra fire damage alone. You would need to add a (minimum) 9% stamina increase to both races to make them comparable DPS to the other races, on top of the suggested +7% damage.

Then, it would be Orcs that get left behind because now Argonians and Nords have more health and stamina than them on top of doing more damage so you'd need to buff them up to 9% health and Stamina too.

I'd be fine with all those changes though.

Armann

@Silver_Strider While I was thinking it would complement that Armitas suggested you make a good point. Thinking about it some more perhaps a dual damage type would be better to increase options.

Nord: 5-8% Physical and Frost/Shock damage.
Argonian: 5-8% Poison and Disease damage.

In Morrowind, the Nords were granted a power called Thunder Fist, which oddly did frost damage.

susmitds

A flat 7% damage is ridiculous.

The Redguard/Imperial max stamina increase gives them only 1.6-2.2% extra damage.

The situation is not as bad as you would like to believe.

potirondb16_ESO

I did like the suggestion about Nord getting +x% from food and drink !

Also argonian could be nice if they receive bonus to disease and poison, (and actually the max health from argonian can help balance the ressource so is it for Nord since those two classes can spend more point in their max stam/magika bonus because they will keep decent health no matter how much they don't spend in it.

Jade1986

susmitds wrote: »

A flat 7% damage is ridiculous.

The Redguard/Imperial max stamina increase gives them only 1.6-2.2% extra damage.

The situation is not as bad as you would like to believe.

Nords are supposed to be tanks, and argonians are meant to be healers. So yeah, I agree 100 % . You cannot give a class good health bonuses, regen, damage, resistances AND more damage. Taht is just insane.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

For Argonians, just tack on a +weapon/spell damage bonus to the potion passive (a toned down version of Clever Alchemist), and fix the Potion Speed jewelry enchants.

Laguz

I just think that these inbalances between races should not exist, and two of the weakest races are in EP. Just bring all races up to par.

Armann

laced wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

A flat 7% damage is ridiculous.

The Redguard/Imperial max stamina increase gives them only 1.6-2.2% extra damage.

The situation is not as bad as you would like to believe.

Nords are supposed to be tanks, and argonians are meant to be healers. So yeah, I agree 100 % . You cannot give a class good health bonuses, regen, damage, resistances AND more damage. Taht is just insane.

Ok so you're saying that the current Nord being considered one of the worst races in the game gaining 5-8% more damage to 1-2 types of damage would somehow make it insane? And where does the 1.6-2.2% number come from, what setup are we talking about here?

Azor_Ahaii

susmitds wrote: »

A flat 7% damage is ridiculous.

The Redguard/Imperial max stamina increase gives them only 1.6-2.2% extra damage.

The situation is not as bad as you would like to believe.

It would not be ridiculous/OP at all. Also the extra 3000 that an imperial or redguard gets equates to an extra 300 weapon damage over argonians and nords. That is not 1.6% - 2.2%. Plus dunmer and altmer already have similar elemental damage boosts whilst still getting boosts to magicka or stamina. Argonians and nords will not be getting any stat boosts so it wouldnt be OP in any way.

Tdroid

Seems like a decent addition, though I'd still rather have a +10% to stamina or magicka given to each of them. Seems overall more useful.

Also, as a btw, the Dunmer have +7% fire damage, +9% max magicka and +6% max stamina. The Nords and Argonians getting this kind of bonus would not be out of balance compared to that. And the Altmer has +10% max magicka in addition to its +4% elemental damage.

Ajaxduo

Maybe something like; Argonian's can have disease, Bosmer poison and Nords physical damage.

susmitds

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

A flat 7% damage is ridiculous.

The Redguard/Imperial max stamina increase gives them only 1.6-2.2% extra damage.

The situation is not as bad as you would like to believe.

It would not be ridiculous/OP at all. Also the extra 3000 that an imperial or redguard gets equates to an extra 300 weapon damage over argonians and nords. That is not 1.6% - 2.2%. Plus dunmer and altmer already have similar elemental damage boosts whilst still getting boosts to magicka or stamina. Argonians and nords will not be getting any stat boosts so it wouldnt be OP in any way.

You guys have no idea how damage scales.

Stamina scaling DPS
Stamina scales with 1 dmg per at least 8 stamina for highest scaling direct attack types (0.128 scale) and usually like 1 dmg per 12 stamina for average direct attack types (0.084 scale). For DoTs it is the same for the highest scaling ones (0.128). But for the rest it is 1 per 16 stamina (0.064 scale).
Now consider a character without racial passives at 36k stamina. With Imperial/Redguard extra stamina of 10%, he gets 3600 extra stamina. With it he will get 3600/12 or 300 extra damage if he uses low scaling direct attacks and 3600/8 or 450 extra damage if he uses high scaling direct attacks. Now consider he is running 2 high scaling DoTs (like Poison Injection) and 1 weak DoT, and 1 DoT that is unaffected by stamina (like Poison status effect and enchantment procs). He gets 3600/8*2 + 3600/16 or 900 extra total damage on high scaling DoTs and 225 on low scaling DoTs. Now most high scaling DoTs have durations of 9 secs and most low scaling DoTs have durations of around 5 sec. Then you get total of 900/9 + 225/5 or 145 DoT damage per second.

Average DPS of maxed Stamina DK without any racial bonus to DPS- 33k per second

Bonus DPS from max stamina increase passives of Imperial/Redguard = 300+125 to 450+125 = 425 to 575 depending on relative scaling of skills in his rotations

Bonus in percentage increase of DPS = 425/33000*100 to 575/33000*100 = 1.29% to 1.75%

Now if someone uses all high scaling direct attacks and DoTs, then they can get a 2.2% increase at max

Increase in DPS by Imperial/Redguard = 1.28-2.20%

Armann

Thanks for the breakdown of stats @susmitds , however the benefits of higher stamina and magicka goes beyond just damage and I'm not entirely convinced 5-8% to a couple of damage types would be OP.

In the real world when taking into account race, gear and champion points is closer to 5% overall between the have and have nots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awwoMBb5ti4