"We Are ESO" Podcast - Returns!

KenaPKK

I really don't want isolated battlegrounds... I want open world Cyrodiil to accommodate small group and solo play. I would feel so detached from all the action in instanced battlegrounds, and Cyrodiil would lost many of its best players.

The first step is weakening snares.

frozywozy

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Major evasion, shuffle & mirage

Didn't hear much talk on major evasion, but it's something that will probably need to be addressed eventually. It is a meta defense inside PVP and something most PVP streamers will use, which suggests that it's too powerful. I've put out suggestions on changes for it but I doubt most will want to lose it as a crutch. If you're not sure if it is a crutch, play a night without it and see how bad your survivability drops.

The only reason to not use Shuffle is if you are a stamblade who can relay on cloaking or a stamsorc who can relay on critical surge to get some healing and replace Rally with Forward Momentum, otherwise Shuffle is a must for any stam class as much as efficient purge is a must for any magicka class in this snare meta. Inb4 mist form changes.

EDIT: I forgot to add, solid post @Xsorus !

cdobratz

Just out of curiosity, have the devs reached out to you all or any of your past guests on what they'd do for Arenas/BG's? I think a lot of the points about the No CP campaign in this thread are pretty spot on, and I find it hard for them to create a balanced experience without either turning CP off, giving armor templates, etc.

Minno

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I will start off saying things were a lot less salty than previous podcasts. Hopefully playing some other games gave better focus on what you want out of ESO. I'll try to cover a few thoughts I had in stream and after, apologies if I jump around.

Non-CP Campaign

You touched on part of the issue that it's a bit more balanced, but you missed the part where both regens, crit, and damage is reduced and a lot of CP builds no longer work, which is why a lot of folks prefer it. It may seem trivial in the numbers, but it means glass canon builds aren't putting folks in execute range as often, nightblades need to be careful committing to a gank, a drawn out fight isn't leasing into a crit rush. These things stack, which I think is why it feels a lot more balanced on the non CP campaign to the CP campaigns.

Also as a side note, a lot of major PVP guilds boycotted the non-CP campaign, because they lacked their high CP advantage. This meant that for a while you weren't facing off against 24+ man groups in TeamSpeak. That may have changed in the last few weeks however.

Damage shields

There was talk about not refreshing damage shields till they go off, but that is problematic with how damage is calculated after a shield drops. As we know, damage that hits a shield is uncrittable and doesn't mitigate except for special abilities. This means that if you have an ability that I'd going to hit you for 9k with a 1k damage shield up its going to hit you for 8k damage, regardless if you have 10k resistance or 32k resistance. This puts almost any class in danger since you normally get some form of mitigation as long as you wear something. Shield stacking will help prevent this, but if we're disallowing damage shields yo be reapplied while they are still up you're opening some sorcs up for some major pain. Maybe if they way damage shields acted was change, then preventing them from reapplying would make more sense.

Poisons

Yes they are too powerful now and it's a noted bug, however you seemed to gloss over a major game changer in game that addresses your earlier complaints. If we take out the damage element to poison and look at the cost increase to stamina/magicka abilities, we now have a way to sinkhole enemy resources. This is right after a discussion saying the regens are too high. Look at these again, this is after the siege changes (reduce stamina and magicka). My guess is this will lead to future abilitychanges to offer similar effects and possibly more balance to the infinite resource issue.

Sorc being ignored, rise of the DK

I understand if you play a sorc you may not like this next patch giving you a lot, however they did just update docs a bit last DLC and they really seemed to focus on the DK lines. This is the typical cycle, highlight one class, give moderate changes to 2 classes, minor changes to the last. I wouldn't bring it up if there weren't complaints previously that some changes get stacked on way too fast with these DLCs and folks can't adapt as well. But thus pattern seems pretty well controlled in how it works. Requiring only a few in weaker positions to respec.

Heavy armor mitigation

Already using some of the thoughts I put out there. However one suggestion you may have missed was giving heavy armor the ability to reduce the critical chance, in addition to reducing critical damage. This would make Inpen still useful on its own while making heavy armor unique against a glass cannon.

Major evasion, shuffle & mirage

Didn't hear much talk on major evasion, but it's something that will probably need to be addressed eventually. It is a meta defense inside PVP and something most PVP streamers will use, which suggests that it's too powerful. I've put out suggestions on changes for it but I doubt most will want to lose it as a crutch. If you're not sure if it is a crutch, play a night without it and see how bad your survivability drops.

Imperial city battlegrounds

Thank you for bringing this up again, but keep in mind this hasn't had terrific support on the forums. Maybe since the PVE folks got their telvar more will be interested changing it over, but we seem to be arguing over things like pizza toppings. I'll just leave me last posts from the PTS servers and here the alliance forums. Canibalize what you need

ZOS doesn't listen to the community/posting on the forums

I've argued with you in chat on this before and honestly I don't feel you listened to me on this topic Everytime it comes up. ZOS has taken a lot of suggestions on the forums and impliment ed them in game. They are not always what they expect and it's not in a timely fashion compared to what we're used to on social media. But I think it's time to dispell the myth they don't listen to the community. If you don't believe it just look at some of the changes in the DB DLC and requested changes

Now of you want to do what @Sypher suggested and posting a major patch notes of suggested changes to imperial city I will more that support and promote it with you. Keep in mind the community response to battlegrounds has been Luke warm in the past but that can change if you mobilize your viewer base to bump up topics, offer ideas, retweet, upvote on reddit etc. You need to show ZOS management that there is a clear desire and that your viewers are actual ESO players, and not just trolls with a bunch of twitch accounts. If this seems like too much work and if some of you have moved over to other games I understand if you don't want to commit the time to it, but please don't come back complaining ZOS isn't listening to someone that can't put forth the effort to write it down.


Well, that's enough words for one post to handle. Thanks for the podcast @Sypher @FENGRUSH @Lefty_Lucy @rishardnelsonb14_ESO

Solid post. My viewpoint on DB aligns with yours with some additions/differences:

1) on case of shields, it seems ZOS invisions shields as a "burst blocker" instead of a sustain option. This aligns with forcing the 6second blanket nerf and making all shields mitigate dmg. With that said, I agree the dmg "runoff" doesn't scale correctly with the high burst CP builds and requires review.

2) in the case of battlegrounds, they already have the location. IC can easily be converted to allow the battleground arenas many people want. But this requires more changes than DB will allow and might even need a complete separation from cyro population to work. But overall the foundation is already there, they just need to spend a little extra time iroing out the kinks and filtering the PVE filler out.

frozywozy

delete

HeroOfNone

frozywozy wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Major evasion, shuffle & mirage

Didn't hear much talk on major evasion, but it's something that will probably need to be addressed eventually. It is a meta defense inside PVP and something most PVP streamers will use, which suggests that it's too powerful. I've put out suggestions on changes for it but I doubt most will want to lose it as a crutch. If you're not sure if it is a crutch, play a night without it and see how bad your survivability drops.

The only reason to not use Shuffle is if you are a stamblade who can relay on cloaking or a stamsorc who can relay on critical surge to get some healing and replace Rally with Forward Momentum, otherwise Shuffle is a must for any stam class as much as efficient purge is a must for any magicka class in this snare meta. Inb4 mist form changes.

EDIT: I forgot to add, solid post @Xsorus !

Thanks for addressing the alternatives. It's skills like these that really need some tone back or need better alternatives to mix up the meta, it's getting too formulated.

Alcast

Nice Podcast. I really like the changes with DB. The only thing I really f...dislike are the poisons that will break the game eventually and everyone will become a flowerpicker.


Also, I will have a lot of fun to create Gank builds. The amount of stuff ZOS gave gankers is kind of "over the top".

HeroOfNone

Alcast wrote: »

Nice Podcast. I really like the changes with DB. The only thing I really f...dislike are the poisons that will break the game eventually and everyone will become a flowerpicker.


Also, I will have a lot of fun to create Gank builds. The amount of stuff ZOS gave gankers is kind of "over the top".

Exterminator more likely, oils and certain drops cone from monster loots. I suspect most PVPers will do what they always do and buy their poisons like they buy their potions, paying gold to replace the farming time and crafting skill level up time.

manny254

I do not understand all the complaint about "Damage builds." I feel there was a lot of exaggeration about sustain and damage.


First off you are complaining about balanced builds (moderate regen, with good damage), but you all spoke as if they where min maxed damage builds. A full damage build would be in 7 divines with Warrior/Shadow/Apprentice, no health, and no regen investment. The builds you are complaining about normally have impen, Attro/Serpent, some health, and some regen investment. If they are stamina they need to run full food in order to be max damage. As is stands redguard is the only race that can consistently run food for stam.

There is a crazy amount of complaints about sustain, but are they accurate? I always feel that you all are low on resources if I watch any of you stream.

There is also a large amount of complaints about diversity, but I feel this complaint is dated. There are actually a lot of option for builds right now, and I do not feel that everyone runs the same set up.

For magic there are 3 main options (Kags, Lich, Julianos). They can all be combined with other options to fit a players personal taste, and there are a lot of options. You could run with 1 kena and 3 arch mage. You could use 4 mara/magnus. You could use 1 kena, 3 VD. You could use any of the 2pc undaunted set, and there are a lot of useful sets now (Bloodspawn, Engine guardian, Malubeth, Skoria, Kena). There are also lots of open world options to run VD (5 kags 5 VD 2 WP) (5 Alchemist, 3 WP, 5 VD) (5 VD, 3 WP, 1 Kena, 3 Arch Mage). You could mix Fassalla's Guile into your build. You can even do some more less standard set up such as a sorc with 4/5 magnus (5 on resto), 4 mara, 3 WP, 1 vMA Destro. There are currently a huge amount of option for building a character, and a lot of smaller options exist. They can all be used to fit personal taste, class, or character race.

Stamina does not have as much diversity, but it does exist. Instead of hundings you could mix in something like the hunt set or shield breaker. 1 Kena 1 Blood Spawn is common, but 2 Blood spawn is very powerful on a DK/Templar. You could use Engine guardian or Malubeth. Your weapon choice opens up different options. You could splash Fassallas, and there will be many more heavy armor options next patch.

Frankly I feel that this podcast shows that only one of its members actually play.

pinchedrug00

I agree with @FENGRUSH when he talked about imperial city being instanced. This would bring the imperial city pop back to life allowing people to do small scale in imp city if cyrodial is too zergy. It would also allow people to duel in imp city no matter what campaign they are on. Please do this zos.

Joy_Division

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Also as a side note, a lot of major PVP guilds boycotted the non-CP campaign, because they lacked their high CP advantage. This meant that for a while you weren't facing off against 24+ man groups in TeamSpeak. That may have changed in the last few weeks however.

Can you please be more specific and tell us which major PvP guilds boycotted the non-CP campaign?

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Also as a side note, a lot of major PVP guilds boycotted the non-CP campaign, because they lacked their high CP advantage. This meant that for a while you weren't facing off against 24+ man groups in TeamSpeak. That may have changed in the last few weeks however.

Can you please be more specific and tell us which major PvP guilds boycotted the non-CP campaign?

VE I know didn't want to make the switch. But mostly because they wanted to go where the fights are and where they members wanted to home.

CN also didn't make the switch.

Idk about the other guilds.

Stikato

Good podcast, and on point as usual.

Unfortunately, ZOS never seems to make many changes beyond what they lay out in the first iteration of PTS for their DLCs. Maybe that will change; this patch does seem a little more promising than last. But they continue to miss the mark on resource regen, shields, shuffle, and IC.

Derra

KenaPKK wrote: »

I really don't want isolated battlegrounds... I want open world Cyrodiil to accommodate small group and solo play. I would feel so detached from all the action in instanced battlegrounds, and Cyrodiil would lost many of its best players.

The first step is weakening snares.

It´s not only about weakening snares

Mistform needs to be untargetable again. Bow needs it´s speed back to being independant from major/minor buffs. Dodgeroll needs a shorter "CD" or another form of diminishing returns.

Basically all the terrible nerfs to mobility would have to be reverted to enable smaller grps again to be something more than cannonfodder.

rfennell_ESO

Should call it "we are DC"

Sypher

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Should call it "we are DC"

I primarily play AD

edit: not that faction really matters

Lefty_Lucy

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I disagree so much with what was said about the nonCP campaign. There are damage builds, but balancing sustain and damage is not easy in that campaign. The general rule for no CP is to build for sustain, because, if not, you WILL run out of resources. I don't see how anyone is going in with a full damage spec and not running out of magicka in there. There is no infinite sustain there. I don't buy that for one second.

Most Sorcerers are running Engine OR Lich to keep up. I run, typically, 2.3k regen, and still will run out of resources quite often when outnumbered. I was a sorcerer empress with 4k regen and still would get down to 10% in rough situations quite often. Typical sorcerer shields there don't go over 9k for hardened ward. The shield duration being shortened is fine by me, good sorcs will be able to handle it, but it's going to drain a sorcerer's resources more than it does now in nonCP, and I think that point needs to be made clear. Sorcerer's are going to have to play extremely more carefully, which is perfect.

There is no running full damage because you end up, even with seducer's on, with barely 1800 recovery on a magicka build, and that 1800 recovery isn't anything because your skills are so expensive. Go play a magicka nightblade in there with full seducer's and 2 regen enchants and see how resource management is. I run a full regen build on my Templar when healing our group and STILL run out of magicka. I tried playing my Templar with the Kag's/Willpower/Kena/Bloodspawn/Torug's setup. With 2 regen enchants that gives you barely 1700 recovery, and about 1800 on repentance bar. That alone will run you out of magicka extremely fast.

Now imagine that with the increased costs happening with DB patch. It's going to be worse on resource management for nonCP, which is fine, of course. Resources SHOULD be managed better.

Now let's talk about stamina builds. I run a stamina NB on nonCP as well. I can get 2500 recovery, but I'm not going to hit over 3k weapon damage. Even that sometimes feels like it's not enough. You can't cloak more than twice, if even that, and you'll be drained of resources quickly. You have to play more carefully as a stamina build in there, which is totally fine.

If anything, resource management across the board should be exactly like the nonCP. There are plenty of excellent and experienced players who play there and they will run out of resources at some point. There is none of this super high damage and super high sustain problem like there is on CP campaigns. And if players DO hit stupid hard, then believe that they'll die in a split second too. But, personally, the only thing that has one-shot me on that campaign, on any class, is emperor siege. And that's after basically living in the nonCP campaign since it's come out. I wish more people played there so they could see what real balance is in this game.

Just my general opinion on resource management in the nonCP campaigns. I think the campaigns are a good example as to how the game should be overall.

Well said. This is my point of view. I didn't see the value in arguing the point during the podcast, but the No-CP campaign is the only campaign I consider decent.

I have never seen any of these "infinite resource" builds that were discussed in the no-CP campaign. My opponents always run out of resources. This is how it should be. It's fantastic.

ArgoCye

Glad We Are ESO has returned. Always fun and the best bit: @FENGRUSH with his collapsible tank.