Why are Nerfs/Buffs NOT separated from PVP to PVE?

XZS2JHub17_ESO

In the pass 2 years that I have played, I have noticed a couple things about the Patches in Elder Scrolls Online.

One of them is that MOST of the Nerfs/Buffs are PVP BASED. One thing that ZOS seems to forget is that PVP, although needs a lot of tweaking depending on the meta, is only HALF OF THE ENTIRE GAME. Why does PVE have to Suffer from PVP nerfs? This doesn't make sense, and has frustrated a lot of players that I know. Quite a few have already left the game because of it.

Why don't you make nerfs/buffs intended for PVP ONLY APPLY IN PVP ZONES? You've done it with healing and damage and damage shields, why not skills too? This way you make BOTH PVP AND PVE players Happy at once. Two birds with one stone. And a more balanced game on top of that. Listen to PVE players too, not only PVP.

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The other thing is that there seems to be a major Latency/server issue in PVP. At one point, certain servers were doing very well until they got changed, such as Wabbajack. (RIP). Is there any type of solution to this?

XZS2JHub17_ESO

@ZOS_JanS
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_TristanK

Please read this. I know you see thing that you get tagged in

ForsakenSin

AMEN !

Valrien

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JanS
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_TristanK

Please read this. I know you see thing that you get tagged in

You forgot @ZOS_Finn

byrom101b16_ESO

The answer to your question Hub17 is due to some level of indifference, negligence or incompetence.

I cannot say for sure which - but it isn't anything else outside of one of these three.

XZS2JHub17_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The answer to your question Hub17 is due to some level of indifference, negligence or incompetence.

I cannot say for sure which - but it isn't anything else outside of one of these three.

HUB_17... IT WON'T LET ME CHANGE MY NAME

on the other-hand, whichever the reason, myself and many others wants to see this implemented in some way. It only makes sense to do so.

dimensional

What about Imperial City that has both PvP and PvE, what rulesets would you use then? I absolutely love PvE/PvP in the same zone and if we went by your suggestion there would be no clear choice to make, and people would still be complaining. I'm okay with how things are done now.

XZS2JHub17_ESO

dimensional wrote: »

What about Imperial City that has both PvP and PvE, what rulesets would you use then? I absolutely love PvE/PvP in the same zone and if we went by your suggestion there would be no clear choice to make, and people would still be complaining. I'm okay with how things are done now.

That is a PVP zone, regardless of a high PVE content. You can, and most likely will be killed by another faction. It is a PVP zone.

dimensional

It is a hybrid PvP/PvE zone, not one or the other.

Lenikus

Just because the other side in PvE doesn't complain, doesn't mean there's a perfect balance in dps, tanking and healing capacity. There are favored roles in a class, yes, but they are not the rule, therefore should not be an excuse for one class pulling 40k dps and another pulling 30k and 80k dps executes while some struggle with 20'ish k dps.
Not to mention teh average player never even leaves the 10k mark , so everything is indeed considered by Zeni, they simply take the alternative of NOT cattering specifically to the very hardcore niche of players. Their priority with those players is to observe, and try to not interfere while they break balance while min/max'ing and show us where the problems are

Bofrari

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The answer to your question Hub17 is due to some level of indifference, negligence or incompetence.

I cannot say for sure which - but it isn't anything else outside of one of these three.

Imo I think they cannot code it or simply it isn't part of a dlc so yeah they don't care too. But everyone can see some of the decisions they've made lately pure off the wall crap that makes no since.

XZS2JHub17_ESO

Lenikus wrote: »

Just because the other side in PvE doesn't complain, doesn't mean there's a perfect balance in dps, tanking and healing capacity. There are favored roles in a class, yes, but they are not the rule, therefore should not be an excuse for one class pulling 40k dps and another pulling 30k and 80k dps executes while some struggle with 20'ish k dps.
Not to mention teh average player never even leaves the 10k mark , so everything is indeed considered by Zeni, they simply take the alternative of NOT cattering specifically to the very hardcore niche of players. Their priority with those players is to observe, and try to not interfere while they break balance while min/max'ing and show us where the problems are

Although, I am talking relatively end-game, I am not talking about mix/maxing. I'm talking about how pvp nerfs and buffs affects the pve. And that those two should be separate in some way.

XZS2JHub17_ESO

dimensional wrote: »

It is a hybrid PvP/PvE zone, not one or the other.

Still a PVP zone. A PVP zone with more PVE content than usual. Even in cyrodiil there is PVE, so then does it make cryodiil pve zone?

catalyst10e

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.... I rarely ever see PVE players actually speaking about and/or complaining about skills/spells here on forums. The only time we hear from them is reactionary, after a proposed change has already been made. As it stands now, in PVP it's much more of a personal and solo experience even when you're in a huge group or zerg it's still more about how your character fairs against all the others. That could mean how your character fairs against a gank squad, or how much more work your character has to put in to get the similar results/damage another character is outputting (with less effort). PVP also doesnt get newer content like PVE does, the best a PVPer can hope for is the "balance" updates and hope the nerf bat swings away from their class.

So... The fix would be if PVE players got together to voice how nerfing a class effects the group dynamic BEFORE the nerfs come, by actively engaging in the "nerf x" posts that get brought up by PVP players.

Burning_Talons

Hey I can bold words too!

elantaura

IC is pvp as the scrolls effect people in there.
I dislike that my fast res passive is not in pve as I have coped nerfs for pvps sake why not buffs. From both prospectives it needs to change. Give my Templar back its extra Bol, but nerf it in pvp.let the op sorcs keep there shields just not in cyrodil.
There are so many people that do one or the other, as a person that does both I can't see why things need nerfing in one place for pvp to be effective. I mean as already pointed out I have skills that only work near keeps, on enemy players ( armour too) I get buffs based on scrolls, and nerfs to heals. I can't even ride a hose while holding one of those scrolls. I get extra health in cyrodil,and I can't use my cold fire ballista in Daggerfall, to kill 100s of people and get that achievement either -so it already isn't the same.we have already set a precedent.

So why can't I have an extra heal in pve, or sorcs have there shields a little longer in pve? All this does by remaining in its current nerf state; is fuel a divide instead of encourage people to try both. It instead breeds animosity and contempt all around at devs, pve and pvp?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

dimensional wrote: »

It is a hybrid PvP/PvE zone, not one or the other.

were that true there would be a toggle to opt out of pvp in that zone, since there is not, it is a pvp zone

XZS2JHub17_ESO

catalyst10e wrote: »

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.... I rarely ever see PVE players actually speaking about and/or complaining about skills/spells here on forums. The only time we hear from them is reactionary, after a proposed change has already been made. As it stands now, in PVP it's much more of a personal and solo experience even when you're in a huge group or zerg it's still more about how your character fairs against all the others. That could mean how your character fairs against a gank squad, or how much more work your character has to put in to get the similar results/damage another character is outputting (with less effort). PVP also doesnt get newer content like PVE does, the best a PVPer can hope for is the "balance" updates and hope the nerf bat swings away from their class.

So... The fix would be if PVE players got together to voice how nerfing a class effects the group dynamic BEFORE the nerfs come, by actively engaging in the "nerf x" posts that get brought up by PVP players.

a lot of the pve players seems to have given up complaining about certain things because pvp players have the louder voice, in a sense of the word. I've talked with many pve players and this seems to be the biggest issue.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.... I rarely ever see PVE players actually speaking about and/or complaining about skills/spells here on forums. The only time we hear from them is reactionary, after a proposed change has already been made. As it stands now, in PVP it's much more of a personal and solo experience even when you're in a huge group or zerg it's still more about how your character fairs against all the others. That could mean how your character fairs against a gank squad, or how much more work your character has to put in to get the similar results/damage another character is outputting (with less effort). PVP also doesnt get newer content like PVE does, the best a PVPer can hope for is the "balance" updates and hope the nerf bat swings away from their class.

So... The fix would be if PVE players got together to voice how nerfing a class effects the group dynamic BEFORE the nerfs come, by actively engaging in the "nerf x" posts that get brought up by PVP players.

a lot of the pve players seems to have given up complaining about certain things because pvp players have the louder voice, in a sense of the word. I've talked with many pve players and this seems to be the biggest issue.

its the general consensus of the roleplay guilds i am in, they have learned they dont have a voice any longer, and have stopped.

im here because pve and roleplayers need a voice, even if thats only supporting the louder pve'er voices

Ch4mpTW

Hm... Come to think of it, I do believe that things changed with classes and overall mechanics were PVP-orientesd. The Sorcerer's Bolt Escape and its morphs being changed, and now Hardened Ward. The changes made to the Dragonknights Reflective Scales and its morphs. The whole thing 'bout regaining stamina while blocking, even though one of the developers lied and tried to say it was mainly PVE that caused that change. When in fact no one who PVE'd made that complaint. Meanwhile there were tons of complaints about "Block-Knights" in PVP...

So yeah, I don't quite see why a lot of changes can't be made to separate PVE and PVP skill changes. I mean, they have incorporated things like healing, regeneration, shield strength changes while in PVP. Why can't Zenimax go through with the full separation of skill changes? The world may never know.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Im serious, when was the last time you saw ZOS publicize a roleplay event? They used to do it all the time. i have been following eso's twitter and facebook, the only thing on there is twitch crap.

Why are the roleplayer's being silenced?

Why doesnt ZOS care about the other 2/3rds of its playerbase?

Mojmir

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

Thats the thing, right there, its not your pvp'ers spending money on mounts, pets, outfits, and other roleplay things useless to pvp min/maxers, its pve and roleplayers.

Why, when pve'ers are possibly the biggest cash sinker's to play this game, why do we get ignored? There is no logic in it.

Egonieser

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

Thats the thing, right there, its not your pvp'ers spending money on mounts, pets, outfits, and other roleplay things useless to pvp min/maxers, its pve and roleplayers.

Why, when pve'ers are possibly the biggest cash sinker's to play this game, why do we get ignored? There is no logic in it.

I PvP, and I subscribe, and I buy some mounts, even bought mount upgrades and crafting motif's AND costumes. So please stop speaking on my behalf and generalize people. I've spent more money on this game than I'd like to admit yet all I do is PvP 90%+ of the time, so where do I fit in your "category"...?
And I do all this despite ZoS neglecting the one thing I love the most - PvP.
Go to a PvP zone, watch a raid or zergs mount up to travel - count how many people have various different crown store mounts and even loads of the limited edition special mounts that cost a premium. Also you will see quite a large number of people using crown store costumes.
Now if we went according to your (or ZoS) logic - all those people never spent any money on this game, right?

Mojmir

Egonieser wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

Thats the thing, right there, its not your pvp'ers spending money on mounts, pets, outfits, and other roleplay things useless to pvp min/maxers, its pve and roleplayers.

Why, when pve'ers are possibly the biggest cash sinker's to play this game, why do we get ignored? There is no logic in it.

I PvP, and I subscribe, and I buy a some mounts, even bought mount upgrades and crafting motif's AND costumes. So please stop speaking on my behalf and generalize people. I've spent more money on this game than I'd like to admit yet all I do is PvP 90%+ of the time, so where do I fit in your "category"...?
And I do all this despite ZoS neglecting the one thing I love the most - PvP.

For the record,I'm referring to how IMO ,zos perceives things.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

Thats the thing, right there, its not your pvp'ers spending money on mounts, pets, outfits, and other roleplay things useless to pvp min/maxers, its pve and roleplayers.

Why, when pve'ers are possibly the biggest cash sinker's to play this game, why do we get ignored? There is no logic in it.

I PvP, and I subscribe, and I buy a some mounts, even bought mount upgrades and crafting motif's AND costumes. So please stop speaking on my behalf and generalize people. I've spent more money on this game than I'd like to admit yet all I do is PvP 90%+ of the time, so where do I fit in your "category"...?
And I do all this despite ZoS neglecting the one thing I love the most - PvP.

For the record,I'm referring to how IMO ,zos perceives things.

Same, im speaking on how ZOS makes it seem to me, if you want to just chime in and say "im the exception, look at me" you are not being constructive

Egonieser

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

it's called lazy development, you'd think since they don't see pvp as their main money maker they would separate the nerfs

Thats the thing, right there, its not your pvp'ers spending money on mounts, pets, outfits, and other roleplay things useless to pvp min/maxers, its pve and roleplayers.

Why, when pve'ers are possibly the biggest cash sinker's to play this game, why do we get ignored? There is no logic in it.

I PvP, and I subscribe, and I buy a some mounts, even bought mount upgrades and crafting motif's AND costumes. So please stop speaking on my behalf and generalize people. I've spent more money on this game than I'd like to admit yet all I do is PvP 90%+ of the time, so where do I fit in your "category"...?
And I do all this despite ZoS neglecting the one thing I love the most - PvP.

For the record,I'm referring to how IMO ,zos perceives things.

Same, im speaking on how ZOS makes it seem to me, if you want to just chime in and say "im the exception, look at me" you are not being constructive

Well then be more specific with your posts next time Mr. constructive. If your own post was so constructive, it wouldn't be misinterpreted now would it?
Oh and, read the edited version of my post, to see I am not only talking about myself. My point still stands, just because there are less PvP than PvE players, does not mean they do not spend money.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

We are glad to see our members making use of the forums. We would just like to remind everyone that it is okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion. Thank you for your understanding.

mistermutiny89

Got all excited about seeing the "Z" beside this post but of course it's just moderation.

This game will never get any better if we don't have some tact when talking about these issues but even more so if the devs didn't continually side step these issues!

XZS2JHub17_ESO

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

We are glad to see our members making use of the forums. We would just like to remind everyone that it is okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion. Thank you for your understanding.

what is your thought on this matter? or this this an automated account?

EDIT: nvm

XZS2JHub17_ESO

Valrien wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JanS
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_TristanK

Please read this. I know you see thing that you get tagged in

You forgot @ZOS_Finn

and also @ZOS_DaryaK