Heavy armor hybrid dk possible now?

Lynx7386

Anyone run a build like this on the pts yet? I'm curious (console, so can't get on the pts).

With the changes to heavy armor giving more magicka and stamina back, restoring more with heavy attacks, and giving weapon and spell damage, combined with dk's having spell/weapon crit in one ability, brutality/sorcery in another, and getting resources back on ultimate use, this seems like the perfect time to run a hybrid build.

Obviously it won't compete in pve for max damage, but as a tank, solo, and pvp build it looks good.

With such a build, would it be best to split attributes/Enchantments between all 3 stats or focus on one? I'm thinking dual wield and 1h/shield for the weapon bars, with dual wield maximizing both weapon and spell damage, and the shield line for defense. Probably best to go with magicka ability morphs to combine with the weapon attacks that use only stamina.

Thoughts?

Ahzek

There is a slight issue with your idea.
Its called the champion system and it does not like people splitting their damage sources, so it makes that completely ineffective.

Lynx7386

Well for pvp I play on azura so champion points aren't an issue. I can see that problem in pve, but I'll probably be building more as a tank for group content. I'm just curious if the concept as a play style is viable.

I started as magicka on my dk, recently been trying stamina, only level 32 right now and thinking it might be worth leveling heavy armor for something like this.

Hutch679

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Well for pvp I play on azura so champion points aren't an issue. I can see that problem in pve, but I'll probably be building more as a tank for group content. I'm just curious if the concept as a play style is viable.

I started as magicka on my dk, recently been trying stamina, only level 32 right now and thinking it might be worth leveling heavy armor for something like this.

Champion points are for sure an issue. If you split them between Mighty and Elemental Expert you're gimp in your damage severely. Hybrids don't work for pvp. Stamina or magicka. Pick one and sprint with it.

Lynx7386

What about sticking to thamauturge? Basically all the attacks for dk are dots anyway. Besides, like I said I'm more looking at this as a tanky build with some damage potential than as a glass cannon.

Reorx_Holybeard

Lynx7386 wrote: »

What about sticking to thamauturge? Basically all the attacks for dk are dots anyway. Besides, like I said I'm more looking at this as a tanky build with some damage potential than as a glass cannon.

The changes make for a better DK tank build. Depending on where the changes to block end up you may end up with more resources and a little DPS from the HA passives. You're still left with the issue of split Stamina/Magicka and CP lines and likely less Stamina/Magicka due to more Health. You'll still do far less DPS than a dedicated Stamina/Magicka DK though.

Armitas

I wouldn't say hybrid dps because of the damage sources but it might be easier to throw in cross stat supplemental skills like the defile from bash or from bow, or if you are stam based perhaps some cc from magicka. It would probably be safe to hybridize things like that because they don't derive their primary value from a resource stat.

Lynx7386

I was thinking more along the lines of mixing attack types so that you always have a resource pool to draw from, like flurry + blood craze from dual wield as stamina dots and Searing strike + engulfing flames from dk as magicka dots.

Armitas

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lines of mixing attack types so that you always have a resource pool to draw from, like flurry + blood craze from dual wield as stamina dots and Searing strike + engulfing flames from dk as magicka dots.

Well I guess it would be best to craft yourself a heavy armor Pelinal’s Aptitudes set. (Thank you IcyDeadPeople for pic)


If you run into any sustain issues consider using Tri-drinks instead of Tri-food. You should be able to derive enough health from the set bonus, plus heavy bonus and a few glyphs that you don't need the extra from tri food. Your damage will go down a bit, but in my experience with heavy armor on live I just can't do it without drinks even in seducer heavy armor. (might be different with the constitution buff).

You will have to use a lot of weapon or spell power glyphs + Jewelry to make it all worth it though... Otherwise your spell or weapon power difference won't matter enough to make good use out of the set.

Recremen

Ahzek wrote: »

There is a slight issue with your idea.
Its called the champion system and it does not like people splitting their damage sources, so it makes that completely ineffective.

Wouldn't be quite as much of an issue if they... you know... raised the CP cap. >.> Just sayin'. Would have also made the godawful (animation-wise) change to Stam DK unnecessary.

AfkNinja

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Anyone run a build like this on the pts yet? I'm curious (console, so can't get on the pts).

With the changes to heavy armor giving more magicka and stamina back, restoring more with heavy attacks, and giving weapon and spell damage, combined with dk's having spell/weapon crit in one ability, brutality/sorcery in another, and getting resources back on ultimate use, this seems like the perfect time to run a hybrid build.

Obviously it won't compete in pve for max damage, but as a tank, solo, and pvp build it looks good.

With such a build, would it be best to split attributes/Enchantments between all 3 stats or focus on one? I'm thinking dual wield and 1h/shield for the weapon bars, with dual wield maximizing both weapon and spell damage, and the shield line for defense. Probably best to go with magicka ability morphs to combine with the weapon attacks that use only stamina.

Thoughts?

Use Pelinials, stack weapon dmg (it's easier), now both Wep Dmg and Spell dmg are high. Stack whichever resource you will use to fight, Stamina?, and use magic for Defensive utility? The set honestly looks fun and I will be experimenting with it on my Templar for sure.

xblackroxe

Hybrid builds were always possible just not viable and after TG they still wont be. You would still loose out on max stat damage boni as well as you'd have to give up 5pc that would actually help you for a set that just brings the second damage type on par with the other

Soris

Recremen wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is a slight issue with your idea.
Its called the champion system and it does not like people splitting their damage sources, so it makes that completely ineffective.

Wouldn't be quite as much of an issue if they... you know... raised the CP cap. >.> Just sayin'. Would have also made the godawful (animation-wise) change to Stam DK unnecessary.

Increasing CP cap won't make any difference. A min-max'ed build will always put points into a couple of preferred stars while hybrids have to split between.

maybe after 1k cp..

Shadesofkin

The issue that I have with the hybrid build is that it's going to suffer from a lack of optimization and therefore it will always (and I do mean ALWAYS) be third runner up in terms of desirability. Almost all heavy armor sets available that would help you are going to hinder you because you're going to lack the cost reduction that having light or medium armor is going to give you as well as spell crit or weapon crit. In comparison to anyone who focuses on one or the other...you're going to be terrible.

That being said, go for it, play how you want, you'll have a lot of fun and if you master it then you'll be able to show up the nay sayers (myself included).

Lynx7386

I was thinking twice born might be a better set - you get all 3 stats and can get two mundus boons, one for magicka and one for stamina.

I could combine 5 twice born with 4 willows path for more regen, or with 4 oblivions foe for more max stats.

I fully realize that damage will be lower than a focused build, but building more as a tank damage takes a back seat to sustain / resource management and defense / survivability. I guess the db changes just mean that a tank build will have a little better damage and recovery now.

I guess I'm mostly wanting to give this a try because I've already got stamina/medium and magicka/light focused characters (nightblade and templar respectively) and I'm wanting to give a heavy armor build a try. Something that can provide an entirely different playstyle than my magicka or stamina characters do.

Recremen

Soris wrote: »

maybe after 1k cp..

That's more along lines with what I meant.

Pomaikai

I'm anxiously awaiting a Templar Pellinial build for PVP. It's something I'd really like to try.

Soris

Yeah but since a lot of ppl still bellow current cp cap, raising it above 1k will take one/two more years i think.

I wish they could just cut in half all cp stars(50 for each star) then we may start thinking about hybrids.

AfkNinja

Pomaikai wrote: »

I'm anxiously awaiting a Templar Pellinial build for PVP. It's something I'd really like to try.

Heavy Armor Templar, all stats in max Magic and some hp. A little stam on gear. All gear bonuses will be +wep dmg (easier to stack large amounts). Use Forward Momentum for Brutality and snare immunity, equip Pelinials and all that wep dmg becomes spell dmg. All class morphs changed to magicka.

Should make for an extreemly tanky build with decent dmg that's immune to snares and binds. Magicka dmg will be good, you'll be tanky and your light/heavy weaves will hit almost as hard as a stam class. I wanna try this so bad.

Soris

Or you can be stamina focused with pelinials and you will have access to class heals along with bone shield+blazing stack and all that dodges which sounds pretty tanky.

Runkorko

Ahzek wrote: »

There is a slight issue with your idea.
Its called the champion system and it does not like people splitting their damage sources, so it makes that completely ineffective.

https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/b5/dd0c75634b11b5789c9c1d9a93736c.png

problem solved

RoyJade

Just tried, and… I forgot that pelinar is currently disabled. Sorry, I wasn't able to test it seriously.
Without Pelinar, I have too less resources/damage to do something good with both stamina and magicka.

By the way, a stam build in heavy can't be really good if we speak about numbers. They lack crit chance, resource management and loose weapon damage if you reach 2k weapon damage (+200 with HA passive, +240 with MA passive), only for a little more survivability (but that's mean being hit instead of roll dodge/evade, so…). Only a LA build might do something with it, I think.
An hybrid can't be totally hybrid actually, the lack of resources is too much, and I don't even speak about CP/crit/penetration. But some builds like a stamplar with honor of the dead and pelinar seem ok (tested on the 2.4.0, I can reach a good dps and good heal, and honor of the dead prevent me from being out of magicka). An overload build on sorc with max magicka, full magicka cp and max weapon damage can work too.

jzholloway

For DK tanking, "hybrid" builds do work, and work well - I split my ability points almost evenly between magika and stamina on my DK tank. Obviously I am not putting out high damage, but for the most part as a tank I don't need to. I currently am capped in resistance with buffs, have 27k health, 20k magika and 21k stamina. Most of the abilities I use as a DK are magika based (talons, chains, igneous weapons/shields, inner rage), some are stamina (pierce armor, elude - plus blocking) - and, as a DK all of the ultimates return resources (Aggressive Warhorn/Magma Shell).

I run 2 piece blood spawn, 5 piece Tava's Favor and 5 piece Footman - so I have more ultimate generation and good mitigation. This works currently on live, and I see no reason why the HA changes wont help it even more.

For DPS - I know people say hybrid builds work, I still don't buy it. I don't see that changing once DB goes live.

Saturn

Hybrid builds only really work for tanks in PvE, for PvP you obviously have a lot more room to do whatever you want, since PvP relies more on skill and versatile builds to be successful. Even then I think you'd still be better off focusing on one resource, like stamina or magicka, but not both. With the new Wrath passive to Heavy Armour you'd be best off running a stamina build, if you want to be able to kill people. If you are just looking to be a damage sponge you can hybrid build however much you like While the devs love catering to hybrid builds, they just don't work that well anymore. Once upon a time when the game had softcaps it was much more viable, but now your best bet is to choose one path, instead of trying to do everything at once.