End of Guild Traders

arena25

On-topic: ESO does not need an auction house.
Off-topic: If I were forum moderator, I'd make a forum policy that any thread talking about ah would be shut down automatically.

I mean, seriously, there are tens of thousands of these threads. Probably opened by the same 10 guys. Please use the search tool and stop making these threads. On a scale of how annoying these threads are, they rank right up there with pollsters and telemarketers.

#StopBeatingTheDeadHorse

ThePonzzz

That's what I was trying to say, @Uberkull and @martinhpb16_ESO. People don't realize the amount of work that has to go into it. For what means? To make a bunch of people happy? And as you both point out, it's expensive and requires people to contribute. I use to contribute to my guild quite often. I always loaded up my items and try to sell. I would buy cheap, sell high. But then Wrothgar and Hew's Bane pretty much destroyed the capped gear economies.

Gold is just about meaningless. Everyone just undercuts to move sales. Look at exp potions. The amount of time required to farm perfect roe is not even close to what you can get for 4 exp potions. But everyone just kept beating everyone's price until that whole market collapsed. Now you take a loss if you make the potions over selling the roe.

And a big player in all this is the guild kiosks and their setup. But again, ZOS doesn't want items becoming too valuable, and they ultimately control the market.

Annalyse

I like how the guild traders are now, but they definitely need to improve the search function. People should not have to use an addon to be able to find what they need.

Calidus1

guild traders 4 life

Ethromelb14_ESO

I would like to see haggling and familiarity bargains to be established with vendors throughout Tamriel. Perhaps using the same vendor some number of times will increase discounts with that vendor ... as long as the player doesn't take their business elsewhere. Perhaps each vendor could offer a deal on a special item exclusive to them and their location, that gets unlocked after a time..

cyx54tc

try Tamriel Trade Centre . You can easily search for the item you want.

Mr.Hmm

I like the Guild Traders but... I dont understand how that system works.

Elsterchen

Hmmm, I admit I do not use guild traders very often. I usually get the things I want myself by collecting/crafting or fighting for them.

But on the rare occasions when I do take a shopping tour, I tend to celebrate this event. Making a shopping list, withdrawing an insane amount of gold from my bank and checking the out prices and goods by myself. I even go to check out those lonely traders standing along the road. After all, all traders are located near a wayshrine and their locations are marked in the map.

Yes, i know this takes a while and sure, I am not a heavy user, so I do not really care for convinience... but I really really enjoy this shopping tours!

They always end with the good feeling of having catched the best price for the best available item and usually I find items "interesting enough" to take along evenso I didn't look for them specifically. The "best price" might not even be true, but it feels like that and that is all that matters to me.

Brrrofski

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I don't know whether a public auction house is the way to go, but the current system ends up giving a semi-monopoly to a handful of large trade guilds. So, whatever the fix, the current system is terribad.

An auction house would give a monopoly to the rich already.

Let's say there's me and you. I have a million gold, you have 4k. You want an item that ranges from 5k to 10k. You go grind gold and come back with your 5k. They're all 10k now though. Huh? I went and bought all the 5k ones and now I sell then at 10k. Sooooo it'll cost you 10k if you want that item now. One or two might slip through the net, but as long as I'm on I'll buy all cheap items and sell them at my price.

Khairiah

Well.. If some of the Trading Guilds wasnt using Mafia methods (like, if u dont join our community, we and our friends will simply outbit ur guild)to prevent other guilds in getting a trader in a specific area. And at the same time fixing prices at various items. Guess the competition would be better. It would be nicer with a system to actually search more detailed, for lets say a specific set. Instead of having to browse thru hundreds of pages of junk.

Sasyk

Nope. I very much dislike the centralized AH system. All it does is let a handful of market moguls control the prices on everything whenever they please. Right now with the decentralized system, you can find amazing deals on a lot of things if you put the effort in to browsing around.

When i played SWTOR it had the AH system, and finding a good deal on something was like finding a unicorn. Why? Because some people litterally sat around all day, everyday in front of the AH machine clicking refresh, buying up and re-listing everything under the sun. The prices on some things got very inflated because of it, and if you weren't rich, you had to spend a lot of time grinding for money to get what you wanted.

Mettaricana

I kinda like the system a few games used where you can hire an npc the hang out in town and sell items for you but its in a designated area not all over. Players would gather and trade there no guild crap just a personal vendor selling your stuff.

swirve

Pr0jektile wrote: »

I love the Guild Trader system.

Yes, it can be frustrating not finding exactly what you want from a centralized location, but it also creates emurshun.

You have the big eco-hubs in every faction, where your more robust trading guilds are going to be. I think it's great that you have to pay up to capitalize on some of these prime trading locations. Keeps it lively and keeps guilds competitive. It also rewards merchant guilds who can focus on trading and allow their goods to be sold in more populous areas. You don't want Dollar Tree showing up on Rodeo Dr, right? Same concept, you get the better merchant guilds in cities like Mournhold.

Then there's the hidden gems. The guild trader you come across in BFE Shadowfen, they're selling the same gear at 60% cost of the hub cities, just to offload it quickly, and you know you're probably the only person to visit that day. Scored some really great stuff that way. You could make a living just traveling the different remote traders and re-selling the grabs higher at the central locations.

Of course, peddling your crap all over Mournhold and Rawl'kha allows you to completely circumvent that system.

I would like to see a feature added for a periodic Auction, though. Maybe once per month, you can put an item up for Auction, and allow others to bid on it. That would be interesting to see.

They should have both then. You can trawl around gts all day to yours emurshun hearts content.

I would use a global house that does not operate as a cartel and frees up time so i can play the game, emurshun is not that high on my list.

Btw do you emurshun guys dress up when playing to get into character as a nice comfy sofa in your pjs is not really comparable to sitting around in armour...having movement restriction would surely be emursive...you could decorate your home to look like a crypt...

Schemering

I like the traders system and are amused by the war for best vendors. An auction house would be a poor substitute for me

CaptainBeerDude

swirve wrote: »

Pr0jektile wrote: »

I love the Guild Trader system.

Yes, it can be frustrating not finding exactly what you want from a centralized location, but it also creates emurshun.

You have the big eco-hubs in every faction, where your more robust trading guilds are going to be. I think it's great that you have to pay up to capitalize on some of these prime trading locations. Keeps it lively and keeps guilds competitive. It also rewards merchant guilds who can focus on trading and allow their goods to be sold in more populous areas. You don't want Dollar Tree showing up on Rodeo Dr, right? Same concept, you get the better merchant guilds in cities like Mournhold.

Then there's the hidden gems. The guild trader you come across in BFE Shadowfen, they're selling the same gear at 60% cost of the hub cities, just to offload it quickly, and you know you're probably the only person to visit that day. Scored some really great stuff that way. You could make a living just traveling the different remote traders and re-selling the grabs higher at the central locations.

Of course, peddling your crap all over Mournhold and Rawl'kha allows you to completely circumvent that system.

I would like to see a feature added for a periodic Auction, though. Maybe once per month, you can put an item up for Auction, and allow others to bid on it. That would be interesting to see.

They should have both then. You can trawl around gts all day to yours emurshun hearts content.

I would use a global house that does not operate as a cartel and frees up time so i can play the game, emurshun is not that high on my list.

Btw do you emurshun guys dress up when playing to get into character as a nice comfy sofa in your pjs is not really comparable to sitting around in armour...having movement restriction would surely be emursive...you could decorate your home to look like a crypt...

Probably about as much as you aren't trolling...

martinhpb16_ESO

arena25 wrote: »

On-topic: ESO does not need an auction house.
Off-topic: If I were forum moderator, I'd make a forum policy that any thread talking about ah would be shut down automatically.

I mean, seriously, there are tens of thousands of these threads. Probably opened by the same 10 guys. Please use the search tool and stop making these threads. On a scale of how annoying these threads are, they rank right up there with pollsters and telemarketers.

#StopBeatingTheDeadHorse

Thank goodness you are not a forum moderator as clearly differences to opinion to your own would get shut down, especially, as it seems, a topic that keep cropping up because there are enough people concerned about it it.

Cencorship in the hands of a powerful few - wait a sec, just like guild traders!

GeertKarel

Guild traders is a good money sink in to the game.

Lord_Eomer

Need a grand trade system instead of going every trader to look for items.

In worst case, Traders can exist but at least allow search over multiple traders in alliance or region visiting everyone is wastage of time.. Or even can not set search filters that can apply to all traders

martinhpb16_ESO

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

I like the Guild Traders but... I dont understand how that system works.

And that's the issue. Those that tend to like it generally aren't fussed about how the current system works or impacts. They are only interested in their own purchasing / selling habits.

Also people doom-monger that a central system would create monopolies and power sellers, something that actually hasn't happened, whilst ignoring the facts about what is actually happening.

Meanwhile we have devs who are putting zero development into their system apart from placing badly located kiosk in new zones.

martinhpb16_ESO

alexkdd99 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm the leader of a trade guild and I can tell you it is not easy.

Keeping the guild spots is incredibly hard work.
There are minimal high selling locations so competition is fierce.
The Devs dont help and seem to have little understanding about how trade guild locations work when they make new zones.
Alliances between guilds have formed that effectively push out new and smaller guilds.
To be a competitive guild you need to constantly kick non-sellers and "incentivise" members to donate and sell.
You have to constantly recruit.
The system does enable selling on an equal footing by any means.
As a guild leader I spend 70-80% of my play time doing admin, recruiting, kiicking, selling, running a lottery and farming to keep sales up. It makes me sad that I have to kick 50-70 players each week because they are not selling enough. If I didn't then the guild would be pushed out.
not to mention making the trade bid at 2am and scrambling around to find a spot if we lost.
Members have to sink money into the guilds to keep them going.
I personally have put 1 million gold into my guild in three weeks.
Then there is the network of spies that GMs ahve to place in rival guilds and the constant intelligence with friendly guilds.

As much as I like running the guild, if we had a global system it would be equitable, fair, open to all and be more efficient. I'm guessing hat will never happen. what we need is some improvements.

Moving all trade guilds to one trading city would help. Or making sure that trader spots are near a wayshrine and in a circle would also help. E.G. Hews bane and Wrothgar are pretty fail locations for trading. If the devs had put the kiosks around the wayshrine in a circle that would of really helped. Also adding more spots where dailies are and other areas of high activity.

So all you folks who say you love it because of the feel and the immersion and what-not. Give a little thought to what is really going on.

What I don't understand about your situation is why you continue doing something that you don't enjoy. If it is as bad as you make it out then why keep doing it? I personally would not spend 70-80% of my time playing doing something that I don't enjoy. If you do enjoy doing all of those things then I don't understand why you don't like the current system.

Good question and one I ask myself regularly. I guess because I am dedicated to my guild and don't like letting people down. i guess some GMs are motivated by the sense of winning or being on top.

Doesn't mean I cant see the desperate need for improvements. Yup I could just give up, but that wouldn't make the system change.

Pr0jektile

Uberkull wrote: »

The problem with these threads is that people dont look at the Guild Traders from the Trade Guild Master's perspective.

Its a literal pain in the ass running a Trade Guild and getting people to contribute to the cost of the weekly bid for these Guild Traders. Its a massive amount of work to maintain a Trade Guild and keep a Guild Trader in the same location week to week.

Members of a Trade Guild who cant, or won't, even pay a 1000g weekly fee are the ones that 'like' the free ride of the Guild Trader system. Actually dig into what it takes to maintain a Trade Guild with the absurd millions of gold bids these top Guild Trader spots go for, amd then come back and respond. Every week, millions of gold, making sure people keep 30 slots full, running weekly raffles to build up more gold for the bids, reminding everyone to pay fees, kicking dead weight members who dont sell, recruiting new members....every week. That's what it takes to stay in the top spots.

If you were actually a GM of a top Trade Guild, you'd be voting yes to some other trade market system.

This is exactly why I'm in favor of the guild trader system.

It takes someone willing to manage it actively. Thus, only guilds successful at managing their gold and personnel can really reap the benefits of a true trading guild.

I don't mind paying 5K per week to maintain my guild trader, because I keep my slots full and enjoy the money I make doing so. If I make at least 5,001 gold the dues are profitable. Everything over that is discretionary gold to go blow on Argonian maids.

Everyone's argument against anything seems that it's because it is hard. That's the point. If you want a trading guild, you have to have a trader mindset and be willing to play that way. If that's not you, turn it over to someone else, there are plenty of people who play that way. MMOs have a pretty diverse player base and I'm sure you'll find some.

Keeping it competitive like this is what makes keeps the economy actually moving. It creates scarcity and forces players to venture about Tamriel to find the stuff they want.

Public auction houses flood markets with gear, makes it easier nor bots to grab and sell gear and farm gold. It drives prices down on common items and astronomically high on rarer sets when the boys have an oligopoly on desirable items.

The current system serves to create immersion and [realism] in only this context, that you have to travel to the vendor to get what you want.

Possible alternatives:

1. Add a few more guild traders around Tamriel. This would allow more guilds to get in on the action and may slightly lower the cost of traders, albeit probably temporary.

2. A true auction: allow players, regardless of guild affiliation, an opportunity to place her stuff for auction. Possibly in the capital city not each faction OT a major hub bin each zone. Take a limited number of items per account from Monday thru Thursday, and take bids Friday thru Saturday at midnight. Allow players to do a true bid, and see what comes of it. This just adds another trading outlet that still requires some level of engagement, but isn't limited to those who can afford or are willing to pay for trading guild access.

3.) Traveling guild traders. Pretty self explanatory. May or may not solve anything. Just would be fun to see.

4.) Add a bartering channel to voice chat. A specific channel or a few channels dedicated to trading so major hubs aren't overburdened with area chat spammers and still have an outlet to peddle their goods outside of guild traders.

Just because something doesn't make it easy for you does not mean it's broken.

Pr0jektile

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm the leader of a trade guild and I can tell you it is not easy.

Keeping the guild spots is incredibly hard work.
There are minimal high selling locations so competition is fierce.
The Devs dont help and seem to have little understanding about how trade guild locations work when they make new zones.
Alliances between guilds have formed that effectively push out new and smaller guilds.
To be a competitive guild you need to constantly kick non-sellers and "incentivise" members to donate and sell.
You have to constantly recruit.
The system does not enable selling on an equal footing by any means.
As a guild leader I spend 70-80% of my play time doing admin, recruiting, kiicking, selling, running a lottery and farming to keep sales up. It makes me sad that I have to kick 50-70 players each week because they are not selling enough. If I didn't then the guild would be pushed out.
not to mention making the trade bid at 2am and scrambling around to find a spot if we lost.
Members have to sink money into the guilds to keep them going.
I personally have put 1 million gold into my guild in three weeks.
Then there is the network of spies that GMs ahve to place in rival guilds and the constant intelligence with friendly guilds.

As much as I like running the guild, if we had a global system it would be equitable, fair, open to all and be more efficient. I'm guessing hat will never happen. what we need is some improvements.

Moving all trade guilds to one trading city would help. Or making sure that trader spots are near a wayshrine and in a circle would also help. E.G. Hews bane and Wrothgar are pretty fail locations for trading. If the devs had put the kiosks around the wayshrine in a circle that would of really helped. Also adding more spots where dailies are and other areas of high activity.

So all you folks who say you love it because of the feel and the immersion and what-not. Give a little thought to what is really going on.

Competition is a good thing. See my reply to Uberkull. Trading guilds are tough to manage and require constant attention. Sounds like you're doing too much on your own.

You need to delegate tasks of managing active members and checking gold deposits. Google Docs is a great tool to manage this, yes, it's tedious but can be done. You need another member to bid on guild traders. You need a member dedicated to recruiting new players who can bring value to your guild. You need another member to manage a raffle/lottery.

If you split these tasks and set deadlines, you can effectively manage with a couple hours per week each.

It's really tough to have a trading guild AND PvP or PvE guild, you kind of have to make a choice here, or accept that it will be a complete time suck.


Again, just because it isn't easy doesn't mean it's broken.

Esquire1980g_ESO

The vendors seem to be patterned after SWG, which to tell you the truth, I like very much. But there are some improvements after the SWG system I would like to see also.

They should add a auction house of sorts (Bazaar) and like SWG limit the amount that items can be sold for in-house. This would include a vendor search also of all vendors, world wide. You would still have to go to that vendor, still have to have access to all the worlds, the gold sink would still be there, etc etc etc.

They should also add, with maybe housing and probably again a ESO+ member perk, a "personal vendor" that the owner can create in houses that ends up as another gold sink for people who would not like to be in a large trading guild, or gets "kicked" from that large guild due to the fact they don't sell enough (see above posts), only this time limiting the number of items that can be sold to maybe 100 so vendors do not end up being just another bank (as they were for quite a while in SWG).

This would allow access to EVERY subscription/player to the general economy and not just for a select few, create the competition that is needed to keep prices down, and allow for buyers to find the best prices on items without taking days checking every vendor in the entire world.