Regarding the ban wave and farming.

Ch4mpTW

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes and I am trying to politely say I dont believe you.

Are you honestly saying you don't believe ZOS could have made a mistake ?

In this instance no. Its cut and dried. There have been other exploits (guild bank dupe for example) that could possibly be done on accident. Not this one tho.

... I'm a programmer by job occupation, and I can tell you that scripts have loopholes and flaws all the time. Which is why software is constantly being tweaked and updated. And ALL codes written have some form of hole or flaw. How big the flaw is varies from case to case. These are called "zero days". Case and point, the dude who "accidentally" stumbled across numerous AT&T customer passwords via slight flaw with the script in the system. But, this way of thinking you have is flawed. And you should really brush up on programming and coding basic/general knowledge.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes and I am trying to politely say I dont believe you.

Are you honestly saying you don't believe ZOS could have made a mistake ?

In this instance no. Its cut and dried. There have been other exploits (guild bank dupe for example) that could possibly be done on accident. Not this one tho.

... I'm a programmer by job occupation, and I can tell you that scripts have loopholes and flaws all the time. Which is why software is constantly being tweaked and updated. And ALL codes written have some form of hole or flaw. How big the flaw is varies from case to case. These are called "zero days". Case and point, the dude who "accidentally" stumbled across numerous AT&T customer passwords via slight flaw with the script in the system. But, this way of thinking you have is flawed. And you should really brush up on programming and coding basic/general knowledge.

Look man you can try and say a bunch of words all you want. Deal with your 72 hr ban and next time dont exploit. Its that simple. You wont get anywhere here trying to rationalize why you were "accidentally" banned. Appeal it if you feel you were wronged.

Ch4mpTW

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes and I am trying to politely say I dont believe you.

Are you honestly saying you don't believe ZOS could have made a mistake ?

In this instance no. Its cut and dried. There have been other exploits (guild bank dupe for example) that could possibly be done on accident. Not this one tho.

... I'm a programmer by job occupation, and I can tell you that scripts have loopholes and flaws all the time. Which is why software is constantly being tweaked and updated. And ALL codes written have some form of hole or flaw. How big the flaw is varies from case to case. These are called "zero days". Case and point, the dude who "accidentally" stumbled across numerous AT&T customer passwords via slight flaw with the script in the system. But, this way of thinking you have is flawed. And you should really brush up on programming and coding basic/general knowledge.

Look man you can try and say a bunch of words all you want. Deal with your 72 hr ban and next time dont exploit. Its that simple. You wont get anywhere here trying to rationalize why you were "accidentally" banned. Appeal it if you feel you were wronged.

babylon

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong but the exploit in question is only possible if you have bought the mobile banker, right ?

If so you would think that at the very least ZOS would check the accounts they were banning actually owned the mobile banker before getting out the banhammer.

According to several people in this thread, no. It doesn't only happen if you have/use the mobile banker

Unfortunately as we aren't allowed to discuss exploits this is difficult to discuss but I thought the now fixed map duplication exploit required the use of a mobile banker. I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd do it with a normal bank but if you say there is a way I believe you.

People could have used a Banker belonging to some random guy at the survey site. Anyone can use a Banker Assistant atm, doesn't matter who owns it...so people without a Banker could easily have also exploited in this way, on the survey site, using some other person's Banker Assistant.

Caradawc

babylon wrote: »

People could have used a Banker belonging to some random guy at the survey site. Anyone can use a Banker Assistant atm, doesn't matter who owns it...so people without a Banker could easily have also exploited in this way, on the survey site, using some other person's Banker Assistant.

Yeah sorry I realised that after my earlier post, I've never seen or used the mobile banker so wasn't aware at first that it wasn't purely for personal use.

anitajoneb17_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

carudocb16_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes and I am trying to politely say I dont believe you.

Are you honestly saying you don't believe ZOS could have made a mistake ?

In this instance no. Its cut and dried. There have been other exploits (guild bank dupe for example) that could possibly be done on accident. Not this one tho.

... I'm a programmer by job occupation, and I can tell you that scripts have loopholes and flaws all the time. Which is why software is constantly being tweaked and updated. And ALL codes written have some form of hole or flaw. How big the flaw is varies from case to case. These are called "zero days". Case and point, the dude who "accidentally" stumbled across numerous AT&T customer passwords via slight flaw with the script in the system. But, this way of thinking you have is flawed. And you should really brush up on programming and coding basic/general knowledge.

Look man you can try and say a bunch of words all you want. Deal with your 72 hr ban and next time dont exploit. Its that simple. You wont get anywhere here trying to rationalize why you were "accidentally" banned. Appeal it if you feel you were wronged.

Listen @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO : you don't know if this person is "guilty" or not. You don't know how reliable ZOS' detection script is or isn't. Neither do I. So please do not act as if you knew. Because you don't.

Besides, whether Ch4mp is "guilty" or not is frankly none of our business. He's got a ban, not you, not me.

EDIT : @Ch4mpTW : you perhaps should also stop whining and trying to convince us that you're a victim, because maybe you are, maybe you aren't, there's no way for us to know and none you can prove either... so yes it's quite uncomfortable for us to answer to that.

Mettaricana

Given the ban wagon ima being finicky I'm gonna skip writs for a week or two til they come down from the bandrenaline rush lol.

Korah_Eaglecry

clocksstoppe wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

If i robbed a small bank or a large bank should one be classed as a crime and the other not?

An exploit is an exploit, whether you abused it only a little or a lot you should be banned regardless.

You take the risk, you do the crime, you do the time.

It's a video game..

Its a video game we all paid for. When someone exploits they get an advantage over other players who equally paid for the same experience.

Ive never understood the apologists for exploiters. Its one thing if the exploit had no impact on the game. But being able to collect large sums of crafting mats definitely have an impact on the game and its economy which in turn deeply affects the playerbase. Is ZOS responsible for letting this get past them and into the live version? Yes. Does that make it okay for players to do something they know damn well is not supposed to be possible? No. Those players need to own up to doing something they know is wrong and they know is going to have a negative impact. And apologists need to stop pretending as if because its just a video game that its okay to cheat other players.

LadyNalcarya

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

If i robbed a small bank or a large bank should one be classed as a crime and the other not?

An exploit is an exploit, whether you abused it only a little or a lot you should be banned regardless.

You take the risk, you do the crime, you do the time.

It's a video game..

Its a video game we all paid for. When someone exploits they get an advantage over other players who equally paid for the same experience.

Ive never understood the apologists for exploiters. Its one thing if the exploit had no impact on the game. But being able to collect large sums of crafting mats definitely have an impact on the game and its economy which in turn deeply affects the playerbase. Is ZOS responsible for letting this get past them and into the live version? Yes. Does that make it okay for players to do something they know damn well is not supposed to be possible? No. Those players need to own up to doing something they know is wrong and they know is going to have a negative impact. And apologists need to stop pretending as if because its just a video game that its okay to cheat other players.

Im actually still concerned about the impact of this situation.
Yeah, they banned the exploiters, but they will return in 72 hours and will still have stacks of golden mats that are worth hundreds thousands of gold...

Korah_Eaglecry

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

If i robbed a small bank or a large bank should one be classed as a crime and the other not?

An exploit is an exploit, whether you abused it only a little or a lot you should be banned regardless.

You take the risk, you do the crime, you do the time.

It's a video game..

Its a video game we all paid for. When someone exploits they get an advantage over other players who equally paid for the same experience.

Ive never understood the apologists for exploiters. Its one thing if the exploit had no impact on the game. But being able to collect large sums of crafting mats definitely have an impact on the game and its economy which in turn deeply affects the playerbase. Is ZOS responsible for letting this get past them and into the live version? Yes. Does that make it okay for players to do something they know damn well is not supposed to be possible? No. Those players need to own up to doing something they know is wrong and they know is going to have a negative impact. And apologists need to stop pretending as if because its just a video game that its okay to cheat other players.

Im actually still concerned about the impact of this situation.
Yeah, they banned the exploiters, but they will return in 72 hours and will still have stacks of golden mats that are worth hundreds thousands of gold...

If thats true then ZOS needs to take action and get rid of those stacks.

Taisynn

I have a hard time disagreeing with either group on this issue. Everyone is agreeing exploiting is bad; but they're wrongly penalizing legit craft hoarders and those who use all writs on their mains.

I have a level 18 character with level 31 enchanting; she gets Eastmarch writs. She would NOT survive if I used her to collect the survey.

I'm just fortunate I did her survey only once on my main and I only collected it from a normal banker in a town. I do have a portable banker but I didn't use him in this instance.

This just seems like a mess.

babylon

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Im actually still concerned about the impact of this situation.
Yeah, they banned the exploiters, but they will return in 72 hours and will still have stacks of golden mats that are worth hundreds thousands of gold...

I expect (or at least strongly hope) ZOS will be tracking down all those mats, and delete them (from banks/trades/mail/guild store sales)...any bought in innocence will be small amounts and not in the realm of hundreds per sale. Hopefully they just take the amount of gold away from the exploiter for those as well while not affecting the innocent guy...maybe just reverse the sale in that case then look at the potential buyer in case they're involved also.

anitajoneb17_ESO

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Im actually still concerned about the impact of this situation.
Yeah, they banned the exploiters, but they will return in 72 hours and will still have stacks of golden mats that are worth hundreds thousands of gold...

If ZOS doesn't confiscate those stacks, the economy will have to soak it up. I'm confident it will take no more than a few weeks, after all the "exploit" wasn't known for very long, there aren't millions of gold tempers around.
Yes it will imbalance the economy a bit, we'll just have to adjust in the meantime.
The economy will be drastically changed with the crafting bags anyway. Overall availability of goods will not change but people's behaviour will. More people will farm their own stuff, maybe sell too, and they'll hoard everything instead of being selective. Prices and market niches will be all changed.

Tandor

Clearly there are people who seek to exploit in any MMO, and from time to time some of them get caught and rightly banned. The usual procedure is then for the game's forums - and it doesn't matter which game we're talking about, it happens in all of them - to be filled with protestations of innocence from those who have been banned. Just as in our prison systems where all the inmates protest their innocence.

Because no detection system is flawless it is inevitable in these situations that a few are banned by mistake, and they will include some that just quietly go about submitting a ticket and getting their case resolved, although others will make a noise on the forum and then it's very difficult for everyone else to separate their cases from those of the actual exploiters who are making similar noises.

I hope that those mistakenly caught up in this will get a swift resolution, but I'm not so naive as to think that most of those complaining on any forum about their own ban, or making out that "I know 100% that I/my roommate/my kid brother/my guildy/my best RL friend hasn't exploited" can frankly be believed. I'm happy for the developers to sort that one out as they're the ones with all the information, and they simply don't have any business reason to drive customers away needlessly. We're in no position to know what is true and what isn't true in these cases, although I do think it's reasonable to assume that most bans are justified, whilst a small number may not be, and I approach every forum topic on bans accordingly.

Svalinn

As far as i know.. in the german part of the forum a ZOS staff member replied to a tread like this stating that they banned people that actually had 500+ materials obtained from 1 single survey.. there's a tread with the source and the translation of it searching the oldes posts and well.. i'm really too tired to go and look for it so just trust my word xD

Anyway... if that is the case, and it seems to be since it was officially said, it's totally useless to start saying "i didn't do it" because i doubt this kind of data can be "bad read"...

...and on top of that i've seen this happens in too many mmos for me to believe the players over the devs.. i mean in some mmos there were people claiming that they used the nickname "gold_seller" just as a joke and no, they didn't really gold sell and their ban for gold selling was totally unfair ad the company should burn to hell.

Sorry, i trust the devs on the people that were banned.

ZOS_AlanG

There are a large number of threads discussing the recent exploits. This is fine, but many of these threads are tense, and several have further issues like people discussing their bans. To help keep the discussion from overrunning the forums, and on track, we are consolidating it this thread.

If someone feels they were erroneously banned for this exploit, they should submit an appeal through our support site