Sorcerer's Execute + Disintegrate Passive + Suppression Field Bugs

Smajestic

Dromede wrote: »

Our AOE DPs is not bad at all - I personally really like Liquid Lightning for 4-man, but we need someone to hit synergy for that skill to do decent damage, otherwise it's meh. If you are fighting by yourself, it's borderline useless, that's true(

I am not agree with you, AOE DPS for sorcerer is the weakest of all class (magicka and stamina).
You do much more DPS AOE with all stam class,
NB and DK are much bether for AOE DPS (more spells, more damages for each spell
Templar are much bether for 2-4 mobs AOE and maybe same as sorcer after

Sorcerers have 4 spell: 1) Liquid lightning (but no movement needed), 2) pulsar / elemental ring 3) blockade of fire 4) detonation

All other class have other AOE Spells with movement possible (NB, Templar, DK), without needed the skill of fire staff.

Egonieser

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Bah those screen shots. How you pc boys play this with all that crap on screen is beyond me, no immersion at all.

Preference, it all comes down to preference. I never liked AUI or Tactical Foundry damage numbers and stuff aswell, i use a lot cleaner and organized addons that do less clutter on screen, plus you can rearrange and organize how you please.
Just because you don't find it to your taste doesn't mean everyone has to. Not everyone uses the same addons, or even configure them the same way - there's something for everybody's taste, but if you don't like it at all, there is a option to not use them at all, so... Where is the problem again? Options are a bad thing? Heck, having NO options is a bad thing.

YoloWizard

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

YoloWizard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.

...

Great stuff! I wasn't aware of those bugs. Note that there is actually not as much difference between Mage's Fury and Radiant Destruction/Oppression as there may appear:

1. The listed tooltip for RD is for the entire 2.8 second channel.
2. The execute for RD does start at 50% but it scales linearly starting at 0% bonus damage and ending at 330% damage at 0% mob health.

Regarding the last point, for most Templars it is a *loss* of DPS to use RD before around 25% health.

As an example comparison I looked at my Templar and Sorcerer who have roughly similar stats and tested RD on a mob at 19% health.

• Sorcerer Mage's Fury = 17.1 k dmg (3.75k + 13.34k) on mobs less than 20% health
• Radiant Oppression = 18.7k dmg on a 19% health mob (tooltip for RD is 15.4k).

So comparable at 19%...of course RD just gets better past 19% while MF just stays the same but MF has AoE damage which is really nice in some situations plus the whole Magicka return thing. What would be your version of an improved MF? A higher execute than 20%, more damage, scaling damage? From past dev discussions on DK executes I would guess they would prefer keeping them unique to each class, barring the obvious bug fixes which need to be done as you pointed out.

I'm afraid this not the case in real raid environment . This is a screenshot of Radient on MOL last boss and as you can see its already ticking for 40k at 25%.



So you could say that even at Templar execute at 30-35% will be around what Sorcs can do from 19% which sounds funny about Sorc's execute

Inarre wrote: »

Oh god not more wining about radiant oppression. Have we not been over this?

The rest of your points, fine, but go read the other discussions about templar executes

This is comparison not QQing about Radient


@Smajestic @Dromede
Sorcerer's AOE is not bad at all if played correctly , probably not as powerful as mag NB but still strong

Septimus_Magna

Disintegration should be able to proc from lighting dmg at any health percentage.

And while you're at it, give sorcs a spammable ranged lightning dmg ablity. Every class has one besides sorcs. Its sad to see only 2 sorc skills on the dmg report, liquid lightning and mages fury.

No wonder sorc dps is lacking, it mostly comes down to weapon skills and meteor, which everyone has access to.

Aliniel

It is so sad. Sorcerer players have been crying for help since the launch. How much more tears do we need to shed to get some love?

eserras7b16_ESO

Don't nerf Templars, just fix sorcerers. Less nerfs more fix.

daemonios

Aliniel wrote: »

It is so sad. Sorcerer players have been crying for help since the launch. How much more tears do we need to shed to get some love?

I was quite happy with 1.6/2.0. With the changes they made and using Martial Knowledge instead of Aether, Sorcs recovered from a really dramatic situation in end-game PvE (I posted several times about the <10% sorcs and the 0-sorc groups in trials leaderboards). So I wouldn't say the issues have been the same since the beginning. It's just that they're slowly but steadily moving towards that sad place where Sorcs (whether magicka or stamina) bring little to no utility to a group and rank lowest on the dps.

xblackroxe

Aliniel wrote: »

It is so sad. Sorcerer players have been crying for help since the launch. How much more tears do we need to shed to get some love?

Sorcs are not sh*t. Sorcs are good dps in both AoE and Single Target. Yes they are not the best (thats for Magplar and Stam DK) but they are competetive. All this talk about sorc not being viable is utter nonsense. Get out of your "I have to Overload to make good dps, else im useless"-Box. Think a little and try new stuff like our beloved Yellow Wizards here (:P) and you will see sorc is not that bad you all say.

Also I´m trying to excuse bugs and sh*tty mechanics that needs to be fixed. I´m just trying to tell people to not think in this narrow minded "Overload is the only way to dps"-thought.

Dyride

Huh wonder whats going with this?
Oh. smh.

Mush55

Past caring these days when( insert class) is more fun and brings more utility than my driven into the ground sorc..

No disrespect intended OP..

Neophyte

i'm starting to feel this game is dying on its ass day by day. Thanks for this post yolo.
Answers Zos pls

NativeJoe

My Crappy sorc wants to have a word with you Zos.

Birdovic

NativeJoe wrote: »

My Crappy sorc wants to have a word with you Zos.

Mundus Stone bugged.

Septimus_Magna

NativeJoe wrote: »

My Crappy sorc wants to have a word with you Zos.

Is that a punching bag build?

TheHsN

YoloWizard wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

YoloWizard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.

...

Great stuff! I wasn't aware of those bugs. Note that there is actually not as much difference between Mage's Fury and Radiant Destruction/Oppression as there may appear:

1. The listed tooltip for RD is for the entire 2.8 second channel.
2. The execute for RD does start at 50% but it scales linearly starting at 0% bonus damage and ending at 330% damage at 0% mob health.

Regarding the last point, for most Templars it is a *loss* of DPS to use RD before around 25% health.

As an example comparison I looked at my Templar and Sorcerer who have roughly similar stats and tested RD on a mob at 19% health.

• Sorcerer Mage's Fury = 17.1 k dmg (3.75k + 13.34k) on mobs less than 20% health
• Radiant Oppression = 18.7k dmg on a 19% health mob (tooltip for RD is 15.4k).

So comparable at 19%...of course RD just gets better past 19% while MF just stays the same but MF has AoE damage which is really nice in some situations plus the whole Magicka return thing. What would be your version of an improved MF? A higher execute than 20%, more damage, scaling damage? From past dev discussions on DK executes I would guess they would prefer keeping them unique to each class, barring the obvious bug fixes which need to be done as you pointed out.

I'm afraid this not the case in real raid environment . This is a screenshot of Radient on MOL last boss and as you can see its already ticking for 40k at 25%.



So you could say that even at Templar execute at 30-35% will be around what Sorcs can do from 19% which sounds funny about Sorc's execute

Inarre wrote: »

Oh god not more wining about radiant oppression. Have we not been over this?

The rest of your points, fine, but go read the other discussions about templar executes

This is comparison not QQing about Radient


@Smajestic @Dromede
Sorcerer's AOE is not bad at all if played correctly , probably not as powerful as mag NB but still strong

AND you say to this YOLOWIZARD.. you got balls:D

SlayerTheDragon

Great post.

KingYogi415

Sorcs where #1 for a long time,
It's the way the cookie crumbles!

InfaM

Them ZOS guys are only showing up to moderate but always don't give a *** about the threads main subject.
It's like their goal is only to keep the illusion of an active forum while not even reading any threads...

SorataArisugawa

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Disintegration should be able to proc from lighting dmg at any health percentage.

And while you're at it, give sorcs a spammable ranged lightning dmg ablity. Every class has one besides sorcs. Its sad to see only 2 sorc skills on the dmg report, liquid lightning and mages fury.

No wonder sorc dps is lacking, it mostly comes down to weapon skills and meteor, which everyone has access to.

That is something which is often demanded, but @Wrobel won't listen. We have to use the staff... and our DMG tree stromcalling provides no DMG ability. I would be so glad to lose the useless finisher and get a decent spamable lightning skill for it. But... We wont see that happen I guess. I don't understand why...

SorataArisugawa

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Sorcs where #1 for a long time,
It's the way the cookie crumbles!

when? The first 4 month of the game maybe...

Birdovic

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Sorcs where #1 for a long time,
It's the way the cookie crumbles!

when? The first 4 month of the game maybe...

Agree.
Also lets not Forget that "sorc being #1" was overshadowed by Mag DK Actually being "1 in that Time.

Lynx7386

Signing this to add my support, sorcs need some serious love from zos, and that goes for magicka as well as stamina.

Lynx7386

Signing this to add my support, sorcs need some serious love from zos, and that goes for magicka as well as stamina.

timidobserver

Paulington wrote: »

There are a lot of bugs that need addressing with this class, just like Templars and Toppling Charge.

However, not just with Sorcerers, I believe consistency is required and having some executes start at 50% whilst others start at 20% et cetera is just wildly inconsistent. Just let the "execute" phase be 20% or whatever.

We could probably take consistency a step further and make all executes active skills rather than channels and give everybody an ultimate that can be stacked pre-fight. Hmm, while we are at it I guess everybody should also have a burst heal, a heal ultimate, pets, an escape skill, a skill that grants major expedition, and a teleport. They could also make sure that all skills, including channels, can proc scathing mage. Rather pursuing this "consistency" approach which would get pretty open ended and end up with all skills being the same, I think the focus should be on fixing the things wrong with Mage's Fury/Wrath.

Reorx_Holybeard

YoloWizard wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

YoloWizard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.

...

Great stuff! I wasn't aware of those bugs. Note that there is actually not as much difference between Mage's Fury and Radiant Destruction/Oppression as there may appear:

1. The listed tooltip for RD is for the entire 2.8 second channel.
2. The execute for RD does start at 50% but it scales linearly starting at 0% bonus damage and ending at 330% damage at 0% mob health.

Regarding the last point, for most Templars it is a *loss* of DPS to use RD before around 25% health.

As an example comparison I looked at my Templar and Sorcerer who have roughly similar stats and tested RD on a mob at 19% health.

• Sorcerer Mage's Fury = 17.1 k dmg (3.75k + 13.34k) on mobs less than 20% health
• Radiant Oppression = 18.7k dmg on a 19% health mob (tooltip for RD is 15.4k).

So comparable at 19%...of course RD just gets better past 19% while MF just stays the same but MF has AoE damage which is really nice in some situations plus the whole Magicka return thing. What would be your version of an improved MF? A higher execute than 20%, more damage, scaling damage? From past dev discussions on DK executes I would guess they would prefer keeping them unique to each class, barring the obvious bug fixes which need to be done as you pointed out.

I'm afraid this not the case in real raid environment . This is a screenshot of Radient on MOL last boss and as you can see its already ticking for 40k at 25%.



So you could say that even at Templar execute at 30-35% will be around what Sorcs can do from 19% which sounds funny about Sorc's execute

To be fair, if the raid buffed, end-game RD is 114% more than my example wouldn't the raid buffed end-game MF also be 114% more? So from my example it would be 36k MF vs 40k RD.

I'm still not saying MF doesn't need a buff but I don't think the difference is as large as you make it out to be. Also consider that RD is the best execute in the game (IMO anyways). So perhaps the question is what *should* be the difference between the best execute in the game and your average execute, or the worst execute?

Waseem

ZOS will give a cookie about this post after the release of DB DLC, because thats how it works
enjoy another 4-5 months in current state until the DLC after DB for this to be fixed

EgoRush

I don't think it's a case of balancing the classes so much as here is some hard evidence of bugs that need fixing. Whether the fixes change the damage balance is irrelevant at this point and can be addressed when skills work as intended.

As for sorcerer AoE damage, you all just need to run a max magicka build and spam the Volatile Familiar pulse

potirondb16_ESO

Actually there could easily be adjustment made to that skill

Endless fury and morph:

One is a 20% ultimate that regen magika each time it is use below 20% health and deal x more when the mobs is killed by your skill (which mean an easy spammable skill not the kind you run out of mana using)

Other is 25% and deliver a strongest aoe dommage but doesn't restore magika.

That way both playstyle win sustain sorc have Something good to work around when they want to regen while burst sorc also do but yet have to use it wisely so they don't run out of mana.

Wreuntzylla

Bum.....

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We removed the 'bump' posts. Please remember that 'bumping' is against our forum rules.

ummmmmm...uh.... <cough> Uh, this is unfair, something should be done to help sorcs! Add 1k unresistable proc to all hits.

Flaminir

EgoRush wrote: »

I don't think it's a case of balancing the classes so much as here is some hard evidence of bugs that need fixing. Whether the fixes change the damage balance is irrelevant at this point and can be addressed when skills work as intended.

As for sorcerer AoE damage, you all just need to run a max magicka build and spam the Volatile Familiar pulse

Agree with the first part of your comment....trying to balance around non-functioning skills/passives is poor engineering at best (Doesn't seem to be stopping them trying though! lol)

The second RE the familiar... on PTS running a typical high end DPS build with around 44k magicka the Familiar pulses crit for around the 6k mark... and only hit every 2 seconds...

Combine that with a close to 2 second cast time for the familiar (Assuming you certainly don't have a slot on each bar for an AoE skill) and I really don't see how this is the answer!?

Unless of course that comment was tounge in cheek.... in which case ignore me!